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Thread: The Water Flowers of Cerulean City! (007)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thing View Post
    And just because Misty might have won, doesn't mean Ash doesn't deserve the badge.
    And just because Ash beat one Pokémon and could've won he deserved it? Sorry it doesn't work that way.

    You earn the badge by winning the battle. This badge was essentially a "Thanks for being a good kid and saving the Pokémon" badge. Calamity already brought up the fact that Pikachu didn't want to battle so there's no point in brining it up since it wouldn't play a factor.

    Also, Ash sucked back then if you didn't notice. He was a new trainer just like Misty so it's not as though he was leagues better. Take into consideration that she knew more about battling and Pokémon it's doubtful one could make the case that he was that much better than her especially in a Water-type gym without Pikachu.

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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca R. View Post
    And just because Ash beat one Pokémon and could've won he deserved it? Sorry it doesn't work that way.

    You earn the badge by winning the battle. This badge was essentially a "Thanks for being a good kid and saving the Pokémon" badge. Calamity already brought up the fact that Pikachu didn't want to battle so there's no point in brining it up since it wouldn't play a factor.

    Also, Ash sucked back then if you didn't notice. He was a new trainer just like Misty so it's not as though he was leagues better. Take into consideration that she knew more about battling and Pokémon it's doubtful one could make the case that he was that much better than her especially in a Water-type gym without Pikachu.
    Are you kidding? She treated pokemon like crap back then.

    I disagree with the people saying Misty would have won. Ash would have definitely won if Pikachu wasn't a scaredy cat. He even had a great chance of winning without Pikachu. Pidgeotto was a strong pokemon back then. I think it could take down Staryu and Goldeen without it being unrealistic.

    I would have liked this episode better if Pikachu wanted to battle, and Ash actually beat Misty. 5/10

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopusG44 View Post
    Are you kidding? She treated pokemon like crap back then.
    What does that have to do with knowledge of Pokémon?

    It was pretty clear back then that Misty and Brock knew more about Pokémon than Ash did. Really now, this is the same kid who used Pikachu in a Rock-type gym.

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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca R. View Post
    Really now, this is the same kid who used Pikachu in a Rock-type gym.
    When his other pokemon were Butterfree and Pidgeotto, using his starter seems like a better option, don't you think?

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by octopusG44 View Post
    When his other pokemon were Butterfree and Pidgeotto, using his starter seems like a better option, don't you think?
    No? Outside of ineffective Quick Attack, none of Pikachu's moves are damaging against Brock's Pokémon.

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  6. #106
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    Butterfree and Pidgeotto didn't have any moves that weren't resisted by Brock's pokemon either, and both of them were at a bigger disadvantage than Pikachu was.

    Your example is still bad.

  7. #107
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    Pidgeotto's Flying-type attacks and all of Butterfree's attacks can damage Brock's Pokémon. Pikachu only had one attack that could damage Brock's Pokémon. Do you understand?

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  8. #108
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    Ash, Misty, and Brock arrive in Cerulean City, but Brock and Misty leave Ash, so Ash heads to Cerulean Gym on his own. Ash sees a synchronized swimming show being performed by three sisters Daisy, Violet and Lily who are also the gym leaders. They decide to give Ash the badge because they don't have enough Pokemon for a proper battle, when Misty shows up and reveals that she is their younger sister, challenging Ash in her sister's place. It's pretty even between the 2 in their match, Ash lost Butterfree to Staryu but Misty lost Starmie to Pidgeotto. Team Rocket decides to drain the pool to steal the gym's Pokemon, Pikachu defeats them, and a combination of saving the gym and the sister's acknowledgement that Misty would have been stomped by Ash if Pikachu didn't refuse to battle her nets him the Cascade Badge. Brock shows up afterwards and the 3 leave the city.

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  9. #109
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    I just loved Pikachu siding with Misty... and obviously Misty was stronger than Ash at that time

  10. #110
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    Obviously? Then explain why Misty loses to the exact same person Ash wins against, two episodes later?

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thing View Post
    Obviously? Then explain why Misty loses to the exact same person Ash wins against, two episodes later?
    The "A>B, B>C so A>C" argument? Really? Stop. That isn't applicable to situations like, for example, combat.

    Why do I have this still subscribed?

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  12. #112
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    Cool battle between Ash and Misty.

    However, Butterfree was never defeated. It was in the water, but not unable to battle, Ash could've sent it out again if he wanted to. Not like Chikorita against Bugsy: Ash said "I'll keep Chikorita for later" when Chikorita got defeated and the referee declared it unable to battle.

    I think Ash should've never gotten the badge, he didn't deserve it. Ash and Misty just should've resumed the fight after Team Rocket left: Ash didn't use Pidgeotto or Butterfree and Misty didn't use Staryu against Team Rocket, so there wouldn't be tiredness issues and inequalities compared to the moment when the battle was interrupted.

    Pikachu being unwilling to battle was funny. But good, Butterfree and Pidgeotto doing their best are more useful in battle than Pikachu who didn't want to battle Misty.

    Even though Ash got an undeserved badge, 10/10.

  13. #113
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    Enjoyed the episode.

    Misty background info. She has three sisters, is a gym leader, and Ash is her boyfriend...oh wait her sisters were just misunderstanding the relationship the two have...anyone would really.

    Ash doesn't win yet another gym, but still gets the badge. Oh well, at less he earns the badge by doing something.

    The episode was funny, action pack, and informative.
    Click and feed/warm my Pokemon/eggs, something amazing happens:




  14. #114
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    A great episode, I loved Ash & Misty's mini battle and how Pikachu chose not to listen to Ash to go against her. I loved that to be honest because it showed how much Pikachu loves Misty.
    Last edited by Blessed; 13th November 2012 at 9:31 PM.

  15. #115
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    The episode was ok, though if I were writing it, Ash would've beaten Misty.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel~ View Post
    A great episode I love Ash & Misty's mini battle and how pikachu chose not to listen to Ash to go against her I LOVE THAT. PIKACHU LOVES MISTY LOL!
    Well, I remember Professor Oak once said "Pokemon often act like their trainers!"

  17. #117
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    But notice his use of the word, "often". As in, not all the time.

  18. #118
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    He deserved the badge. Being in the Top 16 in the Indigo League makes him eligible for the Cascade Badge. Also, if he'd used Pikachu there's no doubt that Ash would have won.

  19. #119
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    Why are triplets so damn sexy in this show? First Daisy, Voilet and Lilly, and now Cilan, Chili and Cress. It doesn't get any better than this.

    My ideal battle ever!

  20. #120
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    Cilan, Chilli and Cress? They look a bit like metrosexuals because of their coloured hair.

  21. #121
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    I love this episode!!! Love the part where Misty says "Oh, no, Starmie looks like it's in real pain," and Ash says "How can you tell, it doesn't even have a face!" LOL!
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  22. #122
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    For the people that continuously claim that Ash didn't deserve to win this badge, I implore them to read the first page and read that analysis

    But aside from that, the episode was really, really, really solid. It's overall plot-line was interesting and the events that happened during this episode were enjoyable to watch. I still wonder what "stuff" Brock had to do just before Ash went to the gym. My guesstimate is that it must have been getting some supplies or something mandatory that requires Brock to leave the posse for awhile.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7threst View Post
    For the people that continuously claim that Ash didn't deserve to win this badge, I implore them to read the first page and read that analysis
    "You're not using a Pokemon that would sweep the other's person's team? You should win the badge for doing so? Take out the opponents strongest Pokemon? That's an automatic win for you."

    Just like the show has always taught the kids.

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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terra Branford View Post
    "You're not using a Pokemon that would sweep the other's person's team? You should win the badge for doing so? Take out the opponents strongest Pokemon? That's an automatic win for you."

    Just like the show has always taught the kids.
    Maybe you didn't read the analysis of Gryphon on the first page. Therefore, I will re-quote it for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphon Turboclaw View Post
    Here's a reality check for anyone and everyone that seriously thinks Ash only got this badge due to pity:

    I also have the tape, and it's pretty clear that Ash earned that Cascade Badge(no matter how much Misty and her fans whine about it). Two things Daisy stated to Misty should help clarify this(both in the same sentence):

    "Pikachu was the one that, like, saved us all, and if Ash had used Pikachu from the start, there was no way that your water pokemon could have won."

    Also consider that Pikachu was *ordered* by Ash to blow away TR, and it was ultimately Ash himself that stopped their machine. On top of *that*, Ash had gotten ahead of Misty 1-0 in their match. (Butterfree being recalled *before* Misty's Staryu could finish it off, Staryu getting recalled when Ash sent out Pidgeotto, and her Stamie getting the same treatment from Pidgeotto that     Spoiler:
    !) Since Misty's strongest pokemon---Starmie---had just been Whirlwinded out of commission by a still-raring-to-go Pidgeotto, she would have been forced to use her Staryu---this was 2vs2---against an opponent who was now wise to her tactics. Even if---and that's a *huge* if---Pidgeotto had eventually gone down, Staryu would have had to deal with a now-rested Butterfree(who, IIRC, knew some of the same Flying attacks that Pidgeotto had)!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphon Turboclaw View Post
    The only pity in that scene was for Misty, not for Ash...Daisy knew that Ash would have prevealed, despite her younger sister's sabotage(Misty certainly didn't pass up on the opportunity to use her bond with Ash's Pikachu against Ash himself).
    1. Misty sabotaged a possible KO for her by using her bond with Ash's Pikachu. If Pikachu - hypothetically - wasn't affected by this sabotage and did participate in the match, Misty wouldn't stand a chance because of the humongous type-advantage Pikachu got against Misty's water Pokémon. This is evident by the statement from Daisy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryphon Turboclaw View Post
    "Pikachu was the one that, like, saved us all, and if Ash had used Pikachu from the start, there was no way that your water pokemon could have won."
    2. As Gryphon thoroughly explained in his analyse, Misty had no chance of winning. Ash was 1-0 ahead and both Butterfree and Pidgeotto were still in battle-shape. If - hypothetically - the match was to be continued after Team Rocket was blasted away, the chances of a victory for Misty were zero to none.

    Ash showed clear dominance in this match. Ash rightfully deserved this badge. The only person(s) to blame for the way of Ash getting this badge is: Team Rocket. There are plenty of indications before Team Rocket even arrived that Ash was clearly superior (As explained in Gryphons analyse).
    Last edited by 7threst; 27th August 2012 at 10:14 PM.

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7threst View Post
    Maybe you didn't read the analysis of Gryphon on the first page. Therefore, I will re-quote it for you.
    Back at you.

    Quote Originally Posted by it
    "Pikachu was the one that, like, saved us all, and if Ash had used Pikachu from the start, there was no way that your water pokemon could have won."
    "Ash didn't use Pikachu. But if he did he would've won." But he didn't so it doesn't matter since gym battles are decided between the Pokemon used in battle and not the Pokemon not in the battle.

    Quote Originally Posted by it
    Also consider that Pikachu was *ordered* by Ash to blow away TR, and it was ultimately Ash himself that stopped their machine.
    Irrelevant.

    On top of *that*, Ash had gotten ahead of Misty 1-0 in their match. (Butterfree being recalled *before* Misty's Staryu could finish it off, Staryu getting recalled when Ash sent out Pidgeotto, and her Stamie getting the same treatment from Pidgeotto that Ash's Pikachu would get three years later from E4 Drake's Shellgon!) Since Misty's strongest pokemon---Starmie---had just been Whirlwinded out of commission by a still-raring-to-go Pidgeotto, she would have been forced to use her Staryu---this was 2vs2---against an opponent who was now wise to her tactics. Even if---and that's a *huge* if---Pidgeotto had eventually gone down, Staryu would have had to deal with a now-rested Butterfree(who, IIRC, knew some of the same Flying attacks that Pidgeotto had)!
    2-1 disadvantage is nothing unheard of in the anime and it has been overcome before. Also, solely because Misty's strongest Pokemon was taken out doesn't mean anything. Pikachu has been beaten in battle before but I don't see Ash losing most battle because of that.

    1. Misty sabotaged a possible KO for her by using her bond with Ash's Pikachu. If Pikachu - hypothetically - wasn't affected by this sabotage and did participate in the match, Misty wouldn't stand a chance because of the humongous type-advantage Pikachu got against Misty's water Pokémon. This is evident by the statement from Daisy:
    First off, Pikachu was the one that didn't want to battle in the first place. Misty did jack-**** to manipulate it. Secondly, battles are decided between the Pokemon in the battle and not the sidelines. Unless, we want to take away Ash's final frontier symbol since Brandon didn't use all of the Regi.

    2. As Gryphon thoroughly explained in his analyse, Misty had no chance of winning. Ash was 1-0 ahead and both Butterfree and Pidgeotto were still in battle-shape. If - hypothetically - the match was to be continued after Team Rocket was blasted away, the chances of a victory for Misty were zero to none.
    Except 1-0 leads have been lost and anything could've happened. Ash has gone up in battles where he dominated early but lost in the end anyway. If we want to play hypothetical situations, Misty could of surged back with Staryu.

    Ash showed clear dominance in this match. Ash rightfully deserved this badge. The only person(s) to blame for the way of Ash getting this badge is: Team Rocket. There are plenty of indications before Team Rocket even arrived that Ash was clearly superior (As explained in Gryphons analyse).
    Read above silly.

    清順(トンボ)
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