View Poll Results: Was Ash's reaction to the Kalos League done right?

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  • Yes, it shows how mature he is

    18 52.94%
  • No, it goes against his character

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Thread: Was Ash's reaction to the Kalos League Finals done right?

  1. #1
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    Default Was Ash's reaction to the Kalos League Finals done right?

    I saw this in a super-long rant by Beatle which got shut down, but he had one point which I really agreed with and got me thinking. I hated Ash's reaction to the Kalos League Finals.

    After 20 real life years, 48 gyms, 6 leagues to try and win the Pokémon League, Ash comes the closest he's ever been and loses to the last pokémon.

    What is his reaction? He smiles. I don't even know if he felt sad at all.

    First of all, not only is this OOC with Ash's competitiveness and passion to win, it's inhuman as well. No one comes this close to achieving their dream for 2 decades, and just smiles it off.

    Secondly, I think it's kinda insulting. Like does he even care about winning the league anymore? Or does it not matter, as long as he has a good battle? I feel like his reaction almost strips away his passion and determination, his hunger to be the very best. It goes against the very reason he set out on this journey in the first place.

    I do admit this is why I got so salty about the S&M poster, because it gave the impression like Ash, are you even trying to become a pokémon master or do you just want to play at the beach. (and I was wrong about S&M, it isn't all comedy.)

  2. #2
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    When Ash lost, you could tell that Greninja was visibly upset.

    Ash's role was to cheer up Greninja and being sad himself wouldn't have helped anyone, especially not Greninja. Furthermore, Ash has grown enough to be able to take a loss well. If you look at each following League, you can see that Ash progressively begins to handle his loss better each time.

    So Ash being content with the loss and the battle he just had with Alain made perfect sense.


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    I thought the Greninja/depression arc was to show us that Ash relearns that winning isn't everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozocrone View Post
    I thought the Greninja/depression arc was to show us that Ash relearns that winning isn't everything
    Also this.

    Ash being upset about losing would have basically contradicted the entire arc.


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    Yea but he was never close to winning the league before. I don't see the mature part, he reacted to the loss better than grown men in real life which is really weird. It just comes off as lack of passion to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozocrone View Post
    I thought the Greninja/depression arc was to show us that Ash relearns that winning isn't everything
    It showed that there are more important things like loving your pokémon, but showing emotion to a huge loss doesn't contradict that.
    Last edited by snorlax512; 29th January 2017 at 1:27 PM.

  6. #6
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    lol Are you kidding me? He's closest to winning the league than ever before! He got in the finals for crying out loud! I think if I'm someone who has learned that winning isn't everything, someone who has learned to love something more than just winning (loving Pokemon, loving life itself for starters), I would be more than satisfied if I got into the finals for once, even if I lost.

    And I think Janovy hit it on the nail. He probably did feel disappointed, but probably also satisfied enough just to get into the finals that he could suppress his upset emotions just to cheer Greninja up. I don't think it's fair to say he didn't feel anything at all just because he didn't display it. A lot of people in real life suppress their emotions in front of others for things much more depressing than just "losing at the finals" or "getting second place".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabberwock View Post
    lol Are you kidding me? He's closest to winning the league than ever before! He got in the finals for crying out loud! I think if I'm someone who has learned that winning isn't everything, someone who has learned to love something more than just winning (loving Pokemon, loving life itself for starters), I would be more than satisfied if I got into the finals for once, even if I lost.

    And I think Janovy hit it on the nail. He probably did feel disappointed, but probably also satisfied enough just to get into the finals that he could suppress his upset emotions just to cheer Greninja up. I don't think it's fair to say he didn't feel anything at all just because he didn't display it. A lot of people in real life suppress their emotions in front of others for things much more depressing than just "losing at the finals" or "getting second place".
    Have you seen the world cup finals? Or any big event where someone's dreams are on the line? I didn't see a single Argentinian player smiling like Ash when they lost to Germany. These are grown men as well, Ash is just a kid.

    It's okay to be human and display emotions sometimes.

    Of course loving your pokémon is more important, but I don't see why you can't show passion towards your goal and love your pokémon at the same time.

  8. #8
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    I personally see it like this:

    Ash has seen himself lose on multiple occasions. He knows it's a part of being a Pokemon trainer, and since the Greninja arc he has come to accept it. He's already met Alain on multiple occasions, and lost every battle to him, so Ash knows he's strong. When he goes through the league, he reaches the finals, which has probably made him happy enough that he has gotten this far after so many losses already. He is against Alain, and so he already knows that there is an increased chance of losing, which will numb down the pain a little. Then he and Alain mention mid-battle that there will be no hard feelings towards each other, which would numb down the pain of losing even further. Then when he finally loses, not only will he remain happy to make sure that Greninja knows it did well, but the pain has been reduced so much by his own ore-expectations and morals that if he felt any negative emotions, he wouldn't need to express them outside of himself.

    Here are the points in my explanation which say that it's fine:
    -Ash already knows that it's ok to lose
    -he already knows Alain is a strong trainer
    -he's reached the finals, and so even if he lost he'd be proud that he got this far
    -him and Alain told each other that there'd be no hard feelings no matter who won
    -he wants Greninja to be happy
    -he'll almost definitely be feeling disappointment from losing, but as certain elements mentioned above made it feel like it was alright for him to do so, he doesn't have to show the emotions outside of himself because they feel so small.

    Overall, Ash knows that it was completely fine for him to lose, and thus he has no hard feelings that amount to great sadness. Would you rather he cried into the podium because he lost, even when we got a depression arc that focused on him getting over just that?

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    IMHO, the only thing "off" about Ash's loss at the Kalos League was that he didn't show at least some disappointment. Yes, he has come to accept that losing is okay and winning isn't everything. Yes, he knows that the Trainer to whom he lost is a very strong Trainer. Yes, he should be thrilled that he reached the finals and essentially was the runner-up. However, he was so close to defeating Alain. Showing disappoint, even brief disappointment, would have only been a natural human reaction--one that even the most satisfied of competitors would show. I do admire the boy for being able to smile and thank Greninja and his other Pokémon for their hard work, because he should be very proud of them and of himself. But that lack of even brief disappointment just felt...off to me.

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  10. #10
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    A single look of disappointment would have been fine. I'm not asking for a long rant or a river of tears. Just. One. Look.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerdy McNerdface View Post
    I personally see it like this:

    Ash has seen himself lose on multiple occasions. He knows it's a part of being a Pokemon trainer, and since the Greninja arc he has come to accept it. He's already met Alain on multiple occasions, and lost every battle to him, so Ash knows he's strong. When he goes through the league, he reaches the finals, which has probably made him happy enough that he has gotten this far after so many losses already. He is against Alain, and so he already knows that there is an increased chance of losing, which will numb down the pain a little. Then he and Alain mention mid-battle that there will be no hard feelings towards each other, which would numb down the pain of losing even further. Then when he finally loses, not only will he remain happy to make sure that Greninja knows it did well, but the pain has been reduced so much by his own ore-expectations and morals that if he felt any negative emotions, he wouldn't need to express them outside of himself.

    Here are the points in my explanation which say that it's fine:
    -Ash already knows that it's ok to lose
    -he already knows Alain is a strong trainer
    -he's reached the finals, and so even if he lost he'd be proud that he got this far
    -him and Alain told each other that there'd be no hard feelings no matter who won
    -he wants Greninja to be happy
    -he'll almost definitely be feeling disappointment from losing, but as certain elements mentioned above made it feel like it was alright for him to do so, he doesn't have to show the emotions outside of himself because they feel so small.

    Overall, Ash knows that it was completely fine for him to lose, and thus he has no hard feelings that amount to great sadness. Would you rather he cried into the podium because he lost, even when we got a depression arc that focused on him getting over just that?
    I respect your opinion but to me, that is also what is out of character. When Ash went down to 1v5 against Tobias, what he said was "We're still winning this for sure!" and he truly believed in it, you could see in his face.

    "He's strong, so it's alright if I lose" goes against his mentality completely, as well as "It's fine, at least I got second place."

    As U.N Owen says, I don't need him to cry, I just want to see some emotion.

  12. #12
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    Where was his dissapointment? If I were on Ash's shoes, I'd be upset because I had lost in the finals.

    It's just another instance of the XY(Z) conundrum: Ash is emotionless and cannot peel off that stupid smirk/smile. Just show emotion, darn it. Like others have said, I'm not asking for big fat tears and deafening sobbing. I'm just asking for a human reaction. If Greninja can show dissapointment, my can't his Trainer? Looking bad*ss and hero-like can only get you so far...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkittleBox View Post
    Where was his dissapointment? If I were on Ash's shoes, I'd be upset because I had lost in the finals.

    It's just another instance of the XY(Z) conundrum: Ash is emotionless and cannot peel off that stupid smirk/smile. Just show emotion, darn it. Like others have said, I'm not asking for big fat tears and deafening sobbing. I'm just asking for a human reaction. If Greninja can show dissapointment, my can't his Trainer? Looking bad*ss and hero-like can only get you so far...
    This is how I felt, as well. I didn't need tears or weeping or even sulking. I just needed a natural human reaction of disappointment. Greninja seemed more disappointed at the loss than its Trainer!

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    I agree that there should've been a tiny bit of disappointment, but not so much that it makes the Greninja arc pointless. Due to the points I mentioned above, I think it's alright for him to show a bit of disappointment, but it would feel slightly strange if he was extremely upset about losing.

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    I think Ash was satisfied because not just he has given his all, it was also the closest he ever got to the victory.

    Also, after so many defeat on Kalos as well as on other regions, Ash had learned that it's all part of the game: sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and that's ok as long as you push yourself to do better next time.

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    When Pikachu was about to Latios, he gritted his teeth and begrudgingly accepted it. I'm not asking for that much, but that would help. Seriously, you're at the finals. Show something. Not to mention, his apology to his friends for letting them down afterwards felt pretty insincere. I think it was the dub, but that scene in general didn't feel natural at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    When Pikachu was about to Latios, he gritted his teeth and begrudgingly accepted it. I'm not asking for that much, but that would help. Seriously, you're at the finals. Show something. Not to mention, his apology to his friends for letting them down afterwards felt pretty insincere. I think it was the dub, but that scene in general didn't feel natural at all.
    The apology meant that Ash might have actually felt bad, and that he was just hiding it behind his smile.

    No idea why it feels unnatural to you.


  18. #18
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    "XY is the new AG."

    He had a similar reaction when he lost to Tyson. He lost to a really good trainer, and his team did the best they could. The way I see it, Ash was probably satisfied having pushed both battles to the last Pokemon.

  19. #19
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    Ash's reaction after losing in the finals of the Kalos League reflected that how much of a great and mature character he is- he was so close to achieving his primary goal in a region after traveling through 6 regions. He always respected his opponents and is always a sportsperson. He gave the battle all he could and was satisfied with it.

    But all this is just apparent, nothing else.

    Ash's reaction after losing the Kalos League was actually an implication of the message that the Pokemon Anime gives- something that I really hate- losing is OK. Sure, losing is OK, but only if the experience of losing leads to some success eventually, but that doesn't happen in the Pokemon Anime. They always find some way to make Ash lose the League, just so that they can shift Ash to the next region and thus, promote the upcoming games. For this reason they keep giving the message that losing is an important part of life. But they always find some way to make Ash lose the League, so the message becomes overdone to death, it becomes like no matter how hard you try, you're always going to lose. Whatever I said is my view and opinion, and I do believe that Ash's reaction after losing the Kalos League conveys the pathetic message of the Pokemon Anime- Losing is OK.
    Last edited by 345ash-greninja; 30th January 2017 at 1:37 AM.
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  20. #20
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    Sure, Ash's reaction might not have been super realistic, but sometimes the realistic reaction isn't the best reaction. Combined with the whole Ash-depression arc and this being fiction, I think his reaction is done well.

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    It was out of character, he should have showed some reaction. He lost to the same Gary Stu again and he stole HIS dream

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    Just to add something of note. The first thing Ash says when with his friends was that he was sorry he couldn't live up to everyone's expectations so I'd say deep down he does feel sad about the loss though it would have been nice to see Ash reflect over all of his league losses and question whether he'll ever be capable of winning a league.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider-Phoenix View Post
    I think Ash was satisfied because not just he has given his all, it was also the closest he ever got to the victory.

    Also, after so many defeat on Kalos as well as on other regions, Ash had learned that it's all part of the game: sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and that's ok as long as you push yourself to do better next time.
    This. He didn't need to sulk because in the end, he did his best and had no regrets. He, unlike his fans who still bellyache about it, knew how to handle a League loss.

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    Nope. He reacted better at the Unova League, which was handled a lot better despite the less than stellar battles compared to XY&Z's.
    Last edited by satoharupika; 29th January 2017 at 10:20 PM.
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    Eh, at this point it makes sense that he wouldn't get upset by losing Leagues since it's what he does best.

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