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Thread: Fic ideas V.2

  1. #1151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    True. But then you can always replace Paul with say... Lucas since he's Dawn's counterpart in the game. But it's your story, your call. I say do what you want. ;}
    aha thanks for the last part. :P

    Though remember, its not Paul. It just feels like it because set up is...well similar to the ash and Paul set up. Except much more deep and it has a big twist at the end. Not to mention they're supposed to be older then ten due to Dawn competing in many competitions over the years, annnnnnnd...time actually passing. XD (She's a battler and contester in this.)

    To be honest, since Dawn and ash are similar, I could go with ash and Paul. But then that's basically me rewriting the Sinnoh story. Which honestly...I..I dunno. It means half the story which twists and turns it...doesn't feel right. lol

    I'll be honest here and say that part of the reason I want a female lead is because it makes the audience usually more sympathetic, especially with the Boy. And due to the Boy's really harsh criticisms, it crosses into "males shouldn't hurt females" territory.

    ...Which is a theme that I want to play around with extremely. XD

    I'm a genderbending fanatic, shush up <3 xD...
    When refering to learning..."In other words, groups are not where ideas are born. Groups are where ideas are evaluated."
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  2. #1152

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    aha thanks for the last part. :P

    Though remember, its not Paul. It just feels like it because set up is...well similar to the ash and Paul set up. Except much more deep and it has a big twist at the end. Not to mention they're supposed to be older then ten due to Dawn competing in many competitions over the years, annnnnnnd...time actually passing. XD (She's a battler and contester in this.)

    To be honest, since Dawn and ash are similar, I could go with ash and Paul. But then that's basically me rewriting the Sinnoh story. Which honestly...I..I dunno. It means half the story which twists and turns it...doesn't feel right. lol

    I'll be honest here and say that part of the reason I want a female lead is because it makes the audience usually more sympathetic, especially with the Boy. And due to the Boy's really harsh criticisms, it crosses into "males shouldn't hurt females" territory.

    ...Which is a theme that I want to play around with extremely. XD

    I'm a genderbending fanatic, shush up <3 xD...
    As for making the audience my sympathetic, I am going to have to agree with you since I kinda.... you know write the same way somewhat. So it's weird to see someone have the same opinion as me. But anyway, it seems like you want to do anime verse. it's your call, but I think gameverse gives you alot more room considering that the games and the anime are very different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    As for making the audience my sympathetic, I am going to have to agree with you since I kinda.... you know write the same way somewhat. So it's weird to see someone have the same opinion as me. But anyway, it seems like you want to do anime verse. it's your call, but I think gameverse gives you alot more room considering that the games and the anime are very different.
    Gothitelle, I'd hate to be blunt, but everyone wants to create a sympathetic character. The reason why you haven't been entirely successful is because you keep having your characters do horrendous things to each other. They beat each other up, they bully each other, and they're massively possessive towards each other to rather scary degrees. And then it's portrayed as either friendship or ideal love, and to be frank, that's why your critics feel highly uncomfortable.

    Point is, it shouldn't be weird that someone agrees with you. That's what a lot of writers strive for: having a character that people feel for. It's just that a lot of people disagree with how you go about creating that scenario. So it's not the sympathetic character bit we disagree with. It's the fact that the "sympathetic characters" you present us with are either in abusive relationships when they really shouldn't be (because they have godly powers/they're canonically more assertive/they're Ariana/insert reason here) or because they're the abusers themselves.

    Well, that and they're sometimes also OOC because you set aside canon in order to write characters like Mars and Ariana in fluffy friendship or romance fics, but that's beside the point.

    Before you VM me or PM me, note that I'm not angry with you and that I don't hate you. I'm just saying that sympathetic characters aren't an unusual thing.

    That aside...

    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    Ah okay. I think I will make an OC then. Its just that it feels like such a copy and paste if I don't use her...
    You might benefit from rethinking your characters. From the sounds of it, you're looking for a perky and hyper female character who's sympathetic and maybe a little on the unconfident side. That... describes a lot of people. Those are fairly general traits that are only pieces of an overall personality. You can get away with having a hyper, perky, and not-that-confident character without having people call you out on writing a similar character to Dawn so long as you take that character and develop her further (independently of Dawn's character). You can still make the story work without having to use Dawn as a template for your main character as well. It just takes a bit of effort to develop her on your own.

    Its really just me wanting to use an already made character to catch people's attention. :/
    Trust me on this one. Using canon characters doesn't always net you attention, contrary to what some people might think. In actuality, there's a number of people on this forum who have expressed a disinterest in canon characters, especially animeverse ones. (See the reviewing exchange thread.) Truth is, there's a lot of other factors in what gets people's attention (and around here, a lot of them can be summarized with "write a trainer's journey fic"), and you really have no guarantees either way. So you might as well write a story with what fits your concept best in mind, rather than attempt to use elements just to net readers.

    Oh and then there's the fact that the boy is very similar to Paul in some ways. It almost feels like an Ikarishipping fic, but its not supposed to be at all. XDD;;;...
    Yeeeeah, you may need to rethink your characters. If you have characters extremely similar to canon ones, you'll have people call you out on them unless you develop them independently (i.e., away from the very basic traits that you might isolate from their characters). If you use the canon ones but don't bother to keep them in character detail-for-detail, then you'll be called out for OOCness. That's what's dangerous about using canon characters or characters based on canon ones. Using the actual canon characters requires careful characterization work, and using ones based on canon characters without developing them into their own people will get you side-eyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    To be honest, since Dawn and ash are similar,
    ...I'm not entirely sure if it's accurate to say that, but that's a side point.

    I could go with ash and Paul. But then that's basically me rewriting the Sinnoh story. Which honestly...I..I dunno. It means half the story which twists and turns it...doesn't feel right. lol
    That's probably a good sign that you'll want original characters for this project. Using Dawn will most likely only give you the same results, only with her half of the Sinnoh story in place of Ash's. (Like I said, she learned the lesson you want to teach her pretty early in the DP seasons.)

    I'll be honest here and say that part of the reason I want a female lead is because it makes the audience usually more sympathetic, especially with the Boy.
    Shippers, yes. Most other people, no. There's a reason why people are so fond of abusing the term "Mary Sue," unfortunate as it is to say that.

    And due to the Boy's really harsh criticisms, it crosses into "males shouldn't hurt females" territory.

    ...Which is a theme that I want to play around with extremely. XD

    I'm a genderbending fanatic, shush up <3 xD...
    ...Wait, why is wanting to use a female character while exploring the themes of equality related to genderbending? Seems to me that that's a general gender issue unrelated to the themes that would be explored with genderbending fic. (Yes, you would explore general gender issues with genderbending fic, but there's a lot more to any genderbend than that.)
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 18th January 2013 at 8:33 PM.

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  4. #1154
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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    You might benefit from rethinking your characters. From the sounds of it, you're looking for a perky and hyper female character who's sympathetic and maybe a little on the unconfident side. That... describes a lot of people. Those are fairly general traits that are only pieces of an overall personality. You can get away with having a hyper, perky, and not-that-confident character without having people call you out on writing a similar character to Dawn so long as you take that character and develop her further (independently of Dawn's character). You can still make the story work without having to use Dawn as a template for your main character as well. It just takes a bit of effort to develop her on your own.
    Hmmm…No. That’s mostly what I’m looking for. But the character is not supposed to be unconfident persay (even Dawn wasn’t originally. She was quite confident.). It’s quite confusing actually…Hopefully it comes out well from what’s in my head and when it’s put onto paper (typing.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    Trust me on this one. Using canon characters doesn't always net you attention, contrary to what some people might think. In actuality, there's a number of people on this forum who have expressed a disinterest in canon characters, especially animeverse ones. (See the reviewing exchange thread.) Truth is, there's a lot of other factors in what gets people's attention (and around here, a lot of them can be summarized with "write a trainer's journey fic"), and you really have no guarantees either way. So you might as well write a story with what fits your concept best in mind, rather than attempt to use elements just to net readers.
    .-….hmm, fair enough. I’ll try something with it. That was honestly the point of using Dawn besides my initial liking for her, but if you say so.

    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    Yeeeeah, you may need to rethink your characters. If you have characters extremely similar to canon ones, you'll have people call you out on them unless you develop them independently (i.e., away from the very basic traits that you might isolate from their characters). If you use the canon ones but don't bother to keep them in character detail-for-detail, then you'll be called out for OOCness. That's what's dangerous about using canon characters or characters based on canon ones. Using the actual canon characters requires careful characterization work, and using ones based on canon characters without developing them into their own people will get you side-eyed.
    Okay, I just like to relate things. They’re not that similar, they’re just…well the guys an *******. ._. At least, from the main character’s perspective he is (And pretty much anybody in the story. But there’s a reason for that.). It’s really hard to explain without telling you directly what happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    ...I'm not entirely sure if it's accurate to say that, but that's a side point.
    They’re similar enough to create flip sides of the coin. I technically could use either one if I really wanted to. But eh, whatev’s. You’re right when it says it doesn’t matter.


    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    That's probably a good sign that you'll want original characters for this project. Using Dawn will most likely only give you the same results, only with her half of the Sinnoh story in place of Ash's. (Like I said, she learned the lesson you want to teach her pretty early in the DP seasons.)
    …trust me, it won’t give me the same results. I may be comparing it, but there’s an extreme difference overall. I’m comparing them because that’s the closest pokemon comparison we got (Dawn is also part of it). And Paul’s reason for doing what he does is completely different than what this guy’s reasons, and trust me, this guy is worse. ._....

    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    Shippers, yes. Most other people, no. There's a reason why people are so fond of abusing the term "Mary Sue," unfortunate as it is to say that.
    No. No, I don’t think she’s a mary sue at all. The theme is more important than what really happens anyway. The logical thinking behind what comes out. What would you do if you were placed in the same position as this girl? With this guy…who wouldn’t stop doing what he’s doing? And no, it’s not rape before someone starts speculating that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    ...Wait, why is wanting to use a female character while exploring the themes of equality related to genderbending? Seems to me that that's a general gender issue unrelated to the themes that would be explored with genderbending fic. (Yes, you would explore general gender issues with genderbending fic, but there's a lot more to any genderbend than that.)
    Okay… Let me just say that it’s because I like genderbending that I enjoy messing with that trope. Be it in a good bad or normal way. I like messing with it. I desire to mess with it because I enjoy it. ._.


    Che, now I'm worried about it being to Dark or something...@.@
    I don't think it is but I'll figure that out.
    When refering to learning..."In other words, groups are not where ideas are born. Groups are where ideas are evaluated."
    My eyes! (my eyes!) are filled with curiosity! You think! (You think!) that you have power over me! In this life! (This life!) There’s no room for you and me! So turn around and face the day with me!
    Such a sexy song. Urgh.

  5. #1155
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    Hmmm…No. That’s mostly what I’m looking for. But the character is not supposed to be unconfident persay (even Dawn wasn’t originally. She was quite confident.). It’s quite confusing actually…Hopefully it comes out well from what’s in my head and when it’s put onto paper (typing.)
    Fair enough, but the point still stands. You've got a lot of pretty general character traits that could apply to a lot of characters, so what you're looking for doesn't necessarily have to be Dawn. The point is that you're going to have to develop this character beyond that initial set of traits, not only so she can be a deep character but also because just having a character with one or two traits doesn't mean you've got a Dawn stand-in, if that makes sense.

    .-….hmm, fair enough. I’ll try something with it. That was honestly the point of using Dawn besides my initial liking for her, but if you say so.
    Unfortunately, yeah, this place is a vastly different community than FFNet. While you can get craploads of readers who will jump on your work if you use the right set of characters on FFNet, you generally don't get the same reaction here. The only times you do, off the top of my head, are when:

    1. You're writing a trainer fic anyway (which nets a lot of readers in general because that's the most popular genre at the moment).
    2. You're writing about characters in the latest gen (and even then, you generally get a better reaction if you're also writing a trainer fic).

    For example, there's this immensely popular Max fic floating around the forums. The reason why that's popular isn't so much because it's about Max as it is because it's about Max on a trainer's journey in the future. So it pretty much hits different buttons. If you replaced Max with a different canon character and wrote the same fic, you'd probably still get the same number of readers. But if you wrote about Max doing something else, not that many people would pay attention to it. And if you wrote about a canon character that isn't even as popular as Max doing something other than go on a trainer's journey, then... you'd probably net even less attention. This... has been something that's actually been tested. Recently, even. Not naming any names.

    Okay, I just like to relate things. They’re not that similar, they’re just…well the guys an *******. ._. At least, from the main character’s perspective he is (And pretty much anybody in the story. But there’s a reason for that.). It’s really hard to explain without telling you directly what happens.
    Okay, but the main idea is you'll want to be very careful with how you develop them. Like I said, if you have a sweet/perky/all-around good main character and an *** hole rival and if both characters aren't much else but those, then that sort of describes a lot of fics.

    Or in other words, right now, you have two options. You could use the canon characters, but you'd have to pay close attention to characterization if you do so, and that includes addressing why, if your fic takes place after DP, Dawn would need to relearn one of the first lessons she learned on her journey.

    The other options is to use original characters, but you'll have to be careful with characterization while doing that because they have to be their own people. Otherwise, you end up creating expies -- or worse, characters that sound like the lineup in a lot of other fics. If you develop their personalities beyond just a handful of traits and their roles towards each other, it'll be easier to get attached to your characters (because people generally aren't just a handful of traits and a hero/rival role).

    Of course, I'm not saying you aren't already thinking about that. I'm just saying it's something to watch out for.

    They’re similar enough to create flip sides of the coin. I technically could use either one if I really wanted to. But eh, whatev’s. You’re right when it says it doesn’t matter.
    You also go on to say that their stories are completely different, which is true because their personalities and the lessons they've learned on their journeys through Sinnoh aren't the same.

    …trust me, it won’t give me the same results. I may be comparing it, but there’s an extreme difference overall.
    Actually, I wasn't saying you'd get the same story as Ash's. I was saying that if you had Dawn relearn her first lesson, you'd also be retelling the story of her journey through Sinnoh. Learning what you were describing earlier was the most basic thing she had to overcome, and as such, it served as a basis for how she acted throughout the rest of her time in Sinnoh. So, you're saying that if you swapped out Dawn for Ash, you'd end up retelling the Sinnoh arc, but the truth is, you'd still be retelling the Sinnoh arc if you stuck with Dawn. It's just a different part of the Sinnoh arc.

    No. No, I don’t think she’s a mary sue at all.
    That's not what I was saying either. I was saying that just because you have a female character doesn't automatically guarantee that the audience will love her or sympathize with her (which is what you were saying in the quote I pulled from your post). Your audience will love and sympathize with a person (read: developed character), regardless of gender. They're just as likely to connect with a male as a female.

    The reason why I brought up the term Mary Sue was because it's proof that there's quite a few female characters in the fanfiction world that people don't sympathize with automatically, and if anything, a lot of people have a harder time connecting with female characters. (Females are more frequently called out for being Mary Sues compared to males. Males just tend to be called crappy characters, if anything at all. It's because the usual litmus tests that people mistakenly use as guides to Sueism are geared more towards female characters.)

    So in short, you were saying that a female character automatically nets more sympathy from the audience than a male. What I was saying is, no, that's not true; there's no guarantee that an audience will sympathize for your character, especially if you don't meet them halfway with decent characterization.

    What would you do if you were placed in the same position as this girl? With this guy…who wouldn’t stop doing what he’s doing?
    If he was just beating me at Pokémon matches? Accept defeat like a mature person. (Which is something that Dawn had learned herself, by the by.) If he was making fun of me? Ignore him. If he was outright bullying me or being physical with me? Tell someone. Or punch him in the face. Depends on my mood and what stage of my life we're talking about here. There's definitely a lot of ways to handle abuse, bullying, or inadequacy, and to imply that a female would only choose one way actually sounds rather problematic to me.

    And no, it’s not rape before someone starts speculating that.
    ....

    Yeah, if anyone thinks that would be rape, please look up the definition of the word "rape."

    However, depending on how extreme we're talking, it could be abuse or bullying, but from the sound of your story, it just looks like the character is butthurt that someone else is better than her. Not to put it overly bluntly, but while inadequacy and learning how to deal with being imperfect are fine as themes, it's not as extreme as abuse or bullying.

    Okay… Let me just say that it’s because I like genderbending that I enjoy messing with that trope. Be it in a good bad or normal way. I like messing with it. I desire to mess with it because I enjoy it. ._.
    That's fine, but unless you're actually writing a genderbend fic, it really doesn't have much to do with the subject of your story. I'm pretty sure no one really minds that you're writing genderbend fic anyway. It's not like we've had weirder. (Hey, guys. Remember that time we got vore fic? That was fun.)

    Che, now I'm worried about it being to Dark or something...@.@
    I don't think it is but I'll figure that out.
    I wouldn't worry about this. There's been darker fic than what you're describing, and even if you did write a fic that's slightly on the dark side, people might actually like it because it'd be realistic in their opinion.

    Well, if it was written well, anyway.

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  6. #1156
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    I'm considering redoing an old PMD fic of mine, and bringing it to the fourms. (although I haven't written for Pokemon in years, so I'm not quite sure how it will go.)

    The overall plot fluttered around the first Pokemon Mystery Dungeon game, after you had beaten the story mode. It involved a team of two female Pokemon; Grace the Eevee and Lightning the Pikachu (However, I may change their names). The story starts out pretty average. The team of two are visiting with Lightning's brother, having a happy picnic. They leave and head home, heading to bed for the night. Only to find a news article in their mail the next morning that Lightning's brother had been found dead, body parts and vital organs missing from his body. Thus it leads the girls on a mystery as to what, or who killed Lightning's brother.

    I might change it up a bit, but that was the original. (Semi inspired by Silence Of The Lambs/Silent Hill. I'm not even sorry.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post

    That's not what I was saying either. I was saying that just because you have a female character doesn't automatically guarantee that the audience will love her or sympathize with her (which is what you were saying in the quote I pulled from your post). Your audience will love and sympathize with a person (read: developed character), regardless of gender. They're just as likely to connect with a male as a female.

    The reason why I brought up the term Mary Sue was because it's proof that there's quite a few female characters in the fanfiction world that people don't sympathize with automatically, and if anything, a lot of people have a harder time connecting with female characters. (Females are more frequently called out for being Mary Sues compared to males. Males just tend to be called crappy characters, if anything at all. It's because the usual litmus tests that people mistakenly use as guides to Sueism are geared more towards female characters.)

    So in short, you were saying that a female character automatically nets more sympathy from the audience than a male. What I was saying is, no, that's not true; there's no guarantee that an audience will sympathize for your character, especially if you don't meet them halfway with decent characterization.


    If he was just beating me at Pokémon matches? Accept defeat like a mature person. (Which is something that Dawn had learned herself, by the by.) If he was making fun of me? Ignore him. If he was outright bullying me or being physical with me? Tell someone. Or punch him in the face. Depends on my mood and what stage of my life we're talking about here. There's definitely a lot of ways to handle abuse, bullying, or inadequacy, and to imply that a female would only choose one way actually sounds rather problematic to me.


    That's fine, but unless you're actually writing a genderbend fic, it really doesn't have much to do with the subject of your story. I'm pretty sure no one really minds that you're writing genderbend fic anyway. It's not like we've had weirder. (Hey, guys. Remember that time we got vore fic? That was fun.)

    I was referencing the fact that females tend to get more sympathy about certain things happening to them then males. I said usually. Perhaps that was a generalization, and I'm sorry for that.

    I was asking the question that was to be asked. that's it. I would continue, but I'm quite bored of talking about it right now. Just note that doing much of the normal things to get away from it will not help much in the unique situation she would be in. As for that, I never said it was that bad or that good. I guess I've been implying it as bad...but I feel that really just comes down to perception. I only put of the disclaimer of "not rape" because I was implying bad and I didn't want any wrong ideas on it.

    The whole genderbending thing was more a joke >3>...Just saying. I mean it was true, but there wasn't anything really too it, I was just saying it for the sake of saying it. that's why there was an xD Behind the "<3". It was meant for laughs and to poke friendly fun at if you really wanted to.
    When refering to learning..."In other words, groups are not where ideas are born. Groups are where ideas are evaluated."
    My eyes! (my eyes!) are filled with curiosity! You think! (You think!) that you have power over me! In this life! (This life!) There’s no room for you and me! So turn around and face the day with me!
    Such a sexy song. Urgh.

  8. #1158

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    This... has been something that's actually been tested. Recently, even. Not naming any names.
    Yeeeah I think your referring to one of my fics when I attempted to do a trainer fic with Jupiter. If it wasn't then feel free to ignore this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpyroxPikachu View Post
    The overall plot fluttered around the first Pokemon Mystery Dungeon game, after you had beaten the story mode. It involved a team of two female Pokemon; Grace the Eevee and Lightning the Pikachu (However, I may change their names). The story starts out pretty average. The team of two are visiting with Lightning's brother, having a happy picnic. They leave and head home, heading to bed for the night. Only to find a news article in their mail the next morning that Lightning's brother had been found dead, body parts and vital organs missing from his body. Thus it leads the girls on a mystery as to what, or who killed Lightning's brother.

    I might change it up a bit, but that was the original. (Semi inspired by Silence Of The Lambs/Silent Hill. I'm not even sorry.)
    Eeeeeeenteresting. It's not every day you get a good ol' murder mystery in Pokémon fanfiction, and it's even rarer to set it in the PMD universe. I'd be interested in seeing what comes out of this. Only qualm I really have is why Lightning found out via the news instead of firsthand, but then again, that can easily be explained, depending on how close the siblings are.

    So yeah. I would read this.

    ...Especially if you have a Hannibal Lecter in the mix. Holy eff, that would be awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    I was referencing the fact that females tend to get more sympathy about certain things happening to them then males. I said usually. Perhaps that was a generalization, and I'm sorry for that.
    Yeah, it really depends on the situation. If you were writing about an actual abusive relationship or a rape, probably. If you were writing about a kid who just can't accept losing all the time, you'd more likely just get people calling them whiny, regardless of gender. (Of course, it depends on how well-written your character is in the first place.)

    There's a lot to keep in mind when tackling themes about gender issues. Just having a female character instead of a male character doesn't automatically net you anything. It depends on what you talk about and how you talk about it.

    I was asking the question that was to be asked. that's it. I would continue, but I'm quite bored of talking about it right now. Just note that doing much of the normal things to get away from it will not help much in the unique situation she would be in. As for that, I never said it was that bad or that good. I guess I've been implying it as bad...but I feel that really just comes down to perception. I only put of the disclaimer of "not rape" because I was implying bad and I didn't want any wrong ideas on it.
    If this is going with my comment about how anyone who thinks this would be rape should probably familiarize themselves with the definition of rape (to put it overly bluntly, imo), the reason why I said that is because rape has a very specific and very serious definition attached to it. It really would require a completely different story and a different level of tact to address, and anyone who's a serious reader or a serious writer would already know the difference between rape and, say, abuse.

    In other words, I was saying that's not something to be worried about because if anyone calls what you're doing rape, they should probably be ignored for the sake of your own sanity.

    The whole genderbending thing was more a joke >3>...Just saying. I mean it was true, but there wasn't anything really too it, I was just saying it for the sake of saying it. that's why there was an xD Behind the "<3". It was meant for laughs and to poke friendly fun at if you really wanted to.
    Well, yeah, I got that it was lighthearted, but it had nothing to do with anything. It's like what would happen if someone came into this thread, offered up a fic idea about Ash reading a book, and said at the end of their post, "And by the way, I like fish." The only appropriate response I can think of to that is, "Okay? That's... nice?"

    In other words, it's fine to be conversational or funny, but throwing out random comments is probably not going to net you the response that you're looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gothitelle K View Post
    Yeeeah I think your referring to one of my fics when I attempted to do a trainer fic with Jupiter.
    Actually, tbqh, the fics in question were posted more recently than that Jupiter one. (Which I wouldn't worry about, by the by. It got more attention than you're giving it credit for. At least, it did in terms of readers, rather than critics.) And said fics were written by someone who I know very intimately, which is why I know the "canon character lead does not always lead to recognition" theory has been tested.
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 19th January 2013 at 3:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post


    Yeah, it really depends on the situation. If you were writing about an actual abusive relationship or a rape, probably. If you were writing about a kid who just can't accept losing all the time, you'd more likely just get people calling them whiny, regardless of gender. (Of course, it depends on how well-written your character is in the first place.)

    There's a lot to keep in mind when tackling themes about gender issues. Just having a female character instead of a male character doesn't automatically net you anything. It depends on what you talk about and how you talk about it.
    I understand the first paragraph...

    What, you mean about the annoying double standards and assumptions both females and males tend to have about each other? (Males and females assuming females to be weaker; females and males assuming males have to be able to take more crap?)
    Deeply ingrained thoughts about gender roles in general?
    All of the sociological effects that society forces upon us?
    Heck, despite me not knowing them, the psychological differences between a male and female? (I know there's some that tend to have an effect.)
    Things like that? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    If this is going with my comment about how anyone who thinks this would be rape should probably familiarize themselves with the definition of rape (to put it overly bluntly, imo), the reason why I said that is because rape has a very specific and very serious definition attached to it. It really would require a completely different story and a different level of tact to address, and anyone who's a serious reader or a serious writer would already know the difference between rape and, say, abuse.

    In other words, I was saying that's not something to be worried about because if anyone calls what you're doing rape, they should probably be ignored for the sake of your own sanity.
    I wouldn't question sanity for the sake of mentioning "rape" in a causal way. Ever heard of "Do you want to play the rape game?" (and then they would respond with "No? ;-;" and then the response would be "THAT'S THE SPIRIT 8D" If they responded with Yes, the Joke falls on itself, since according to the joke, rape is only rape if you're not okay with it.)
    Its something that goes around my school and I've seen it online once or twice two.
    Yeah, that's all for laughs, especially when its done in an obviously overly creepy manner, letting the recipient know its all fake immediately.

    I'm still sane and I've done the joke once or twice :P.

    Still, I see what you mean. I jumped the gun on those words. :/...




    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    Well, yeah, I got that it was lighthearted, but it had nothing to do with anything. It's like what would happen if someone came into this thread, offered up a fic idea about Ash reading a book, and said at the end of their post, "And by the way, I like fish." The only appropriate response I can think of to that is, "Okay? That's... nice?"

    In other words, it's fine to be conversational or funny, but throwing out random comments is probably not going to net you the response that you're looking for.



    mehhhh, I'm going to have to disagree with that last point. :P I've been conditioned otherwise. Yeah it doesn't always get the response I want, but then again, very rarely does anything always give exactly what I want, especially with the variety of the human population.

    But just because its random and just because it only has slight relevance doesn't mean people can't go along with it. :P I've lived my whole life with people going along with jokes like that, and perhaps I'm familiarizing myself too much...But I don't think that's the only reaction.
    ...Though that's a bit too off topic. lol
    Last edited by EmphaticPikachu; 19th January 2013 at 5:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    What, you mean about the annoying double standards and assumptions both females and males tend to have about each other? (Males and females assuming females to be weaker; females and males assuming males have to be able to take more crap?)
    Deeply ingrained thoughts about gender roles in general?
    All of the sociological effects that society forces upon us?
    Heck, despite me not knowing them, the psychological differences between a male and female? (I know there's some that tend to have an effect.)
    Things like that? lol
    Well, yes, but just having a female character doesn't automatically mean you're exploring those themes with any level of depth. That's like saying that just because I'm wearing the color red, I'm automatically exploring the cultural implications of the color itself. No, actually, sometimes I just like wearing red. Likewise, just having a girl show up doesn't automatically mean you have a discourse on your hands. You actually have to delve into those themes on some level of consciousness in order to do that. No kidding to the point that there's a fundamental difference between girls and boys that goes beyond just what's in their pants. That's a given. And because it's a given, your work is not going to be seen as exploring those themes unless, well, it makes an effort to do so. There is no "automatically" about it.

    I wouldn't question sanity for the sake of mentioning "rape" in a causal way.
    At the risk of being blunt, that wasn't what I was saying at all.

    I was saying that if anyone actually accused you of writing a rape fic when you weren't (as in, if they actually called you out on it), then they don't know what rape is.

    Moreover, just letting you know, joking about rape is fine if you're among friends, but on the internet, you don't actually know whether or not the person on the other end is a legitimate rape vicitm. (I'm not, but I know people who were.) That's why rape is a serious discussion and why talking about it is generally seen as a serious thing.

    That's why I said what I said. There really are people online who take it seriously. Many people, actually. And there are also people who not only take it seriously but call people out on writing about it when there's no instance of rape anywhere in the fic because they think that abuse is rape or vice versa. My point was that if there are the latter kind of people on your thread, then it's best to ignore them.

    I'm going to have to disagree with that last point. :P I've been conditioned otherwise.
    Again, it's fine with your friends, but online, you're talking to strangers. Not everyone is going to appreciate random "humor." It's especially touchy on forums like these, where there's legit rules about derailing topics. That said, again, I'd hate to say this, but there's not really anything funny about throwing out what floats your boat. *shrug* It's nice that you're into that, but because it had nothing to do with anything, the lightheartedness sort of fell flat there.

    Actually, to make it clearer, let me demonstrate.

    I'm into transformation fics. So sue me.

    Laughing yet? If the answer is no, then I've just demonstrated my point.

    Edit: I get the feeling a lot of the problems in this conversation are being caused by the fact that you're telling inside jokes that you share with your friends to complete strangers, so most of what you're saying isn't actually translating into a joke to begin with because, well, we're not your circle of friends.

    Like, for example, the reason why I didn't get the joke you made when you said you like genderbending fic is because to a stranger, there is no joke there. Tone doesn't translate well on a written format, and... we're not your circle of friends. :/
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 19th January 2013 at 5:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    Well, yes, but just having a female character doesn't automatically mean you're exploring those themes with any level of depth. That's like saying that just because I'm wearing the color red, I'm automatically exploring the cultural implications of the color itself. No, actually, sometimes I just like wearing red. Likewise, just having a girl show up doesn't automatically mean you have a discourse on your hands. You actually have to delve into those themes on some level of consciousness in order to do that. No kidding to the point that there's a fundamental difference between girls and boys that goes beyond just what's in their pants. That's a given. And because it's a given, your work is not going to be seen as exploring those themes unless, well, it makes an effort to do so. There is no "automatically" about it.



    At the risk of being blunt, that wasn't what I was saying. At all.

    I was saying that if anyone actually accused you of writing a rape fic when you weren't (as in, if they actually called you out on it), then they don't know what rape is.

    Moreover, just letting you know, joking about rape is fine if you're among friends, but on the internet, you don't actually know whether or not the person on the other end is a legitimate rape vicitm. (I'm not, but I know people who were.) That's why rape is a serious discussion and why talking about it is generally seen as a serious thing.

    That's why I said what I said. There really are people online who take it seriously. Many people, actually. And there are also people who not only take it seriously but call people out on writing about it when there's no instance of rape anywhere in the fic because they think that abuse is rape or vice versa. My point was that if there are the latter kind of people on your thread, then it's best to ignore them.



    Again, it's fine with your friends, but online, you're talking to strangers. Not everyone is going to appreciate random "humor." It's especially touchy on forums like these, where there's legit rules about derailing topics. That said, again, I'd hate to say this, but there's not really anything funny about throwing out what floats your boat. *shrug* It's nice that you're into that, but because it had nothing to do with anything, the lightheartedness sort of fell flat there.

    Actually, to make it clearer, let me demonstrate.

    I'm into transformation fics. So sue me.

    Laughing yet? If the answer is no, then I've just demonstrated my point.
    I was more just demonstrating i have the knowledge to apply it if i have too. Thats all. :/...

    Alright, I'm sorry about the whole rape thing...

    Though honestly, I don't understand why i would have to restrict myself online from joking about it in an appropriate area. People have such different morals and taste values that no matter where you joke about it can cause a fight. What i don't understand is why it's so hard to just back off about silly things. Even if your emotions are inflamed, it doesn't mean they meant it in any harmful way. If someone reacts badly, say your sorry and move on. Both sides need to give a little in that situation, at least, in my opinion. Way to much assuming and anger...:/

    No I didn't break out laughing, but I can defiantly sue you for making me chuckle. :P
    Just saying something without warning can get a chuckle out of people. It doesn't have to be relevant to be funny. In fact, that detour of randomness can get others to calm down or laugh.
    Last edited by EmphaticPikachu; 19th January 2013 at 5:54 AM.
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    Such a sexy song. Urgh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    I was more just demonstrating i have the knowledge to apply it if i have too. Thats all. :/...
    And it's cool that you have the knowledge to do so, but what I'm saying is you originally wanted to use a female protagonist to explore those themes because you were saying she would, by default, introduce those themes into your work. (Or at least that's how I interpreted what you were saying.) Except, as I've said, just having a female protagonist doesn't automatically mean that you have those themes in your work or that it's easier to work with them if your main character is female. For the latter point, you could have the genders reversed (wherein the male is the one who's having a difficult time caused by the female), and that would bring up the double-standards issue. Controversially, sure, but there's plenty of issues nested within issues that are attached to both genders. Working with one isn't any easier than working with another, and either way, you won't necessarily be seen as exploring those issues in your work unless you actually do.

    Alright, I'm sorry about the whole rape thing...
    Hey, it's cool so long as you understand what I was saying there.

    Though honestly, I don't understand why i would have to restrict myself online from joking about it in an appropriate area.
    The problem is that on the internet, there's not that many appropriate places. It's not an issue of morals or fighting either.

    Put it this way. Do you know what a trigger is? If not, lemme just describe it to you. Imagine being sad. Sadder than you ever have been. So sad that you literally can't function. You're feeling an immense amount of pain, and all you can do about it is sit there and experience a full-on emotional breakdown or anxiety attack because you're just so overwhelmed with how horrendous you feel. You literally can't function for long periods of time. Sometimes, it's minutes. Sometimes, it's hours. Sometimes, your entire day might be ruined just because you're feeling that terrible about everything.

    A trigger is what happens when someone reads or sees something that causes that. Why? It's not because they're oversensitive. It's because the thing reminds them of their pasts. They went through a moment in their lives where they've experienced something so traumatic that even remembering it causes them to stop functioning normally.

    Rape can do that to people. It's a moment where you feel so helpless and objectified that you're less than human. The people that you trusted not to touch you did. Sometimes, that person might even have been your best friend. They overpowered you, ignored what you had to say, and hurt you on a massively profound emotional level. Sometimes even physical level too. And that's only the beginning. Afterwards, you have to deal with the cleanup. You've been traumatized and violated in every sense of the word. You can't just walk away from that in one piece mentally.

    If you're lucky, people take you seriously. The judicial system gives your rapist a fair trial and sentences him to a long life in prison, and you get help that alleviates the trauma a little. You end up moving on after that. But most people aren't lucky. The judicial system might not care about them, so their rapist gets a light sentence or no sentence at all. They may become pregnant from the rape or contract a STI, either of which will remind them of the rape for years or even the rest of their lives (especially since there's countries that ban abortion, even in the case of rape). They might not even be able to get mental help in some cases.

    But either way, being reminded of the rape carries the risk of triggering them. Imagine being online, where you're supposed to get away from how crappy your life is, only to come across a thread where someone jokes about one of your triggers, and that shuts you down completely. It's not a pleasant experience.

    That's why the general public (which is what the internet is outside of private conversations like PMs, VMs, chats, e-mails, or boards where only your friends go to) is not an appropriate place to joke about rape. There are rape victims everywhere. The statistics are astronomical to the point where it's very likely that there are multiple active users on Serebii right now who were victims of rape or sexual abuse. And you just don't know who it is because not everyone talks about their experiences. In fact, most don't. So out of respect for those people, it's generally considered a good idea online to refrain from doing that except in places where it's explicitly appropriate. For example, if you're talking about rape in a thread about rape, it's sort of a given that that's okay. If you're with your friends and know that they're okay with rape jokes, that's okay too. You don't do it with strangers because you have no idea who they are or where they're coming from. You could very well be bringing up very uncomfortable, very real issues that affect them every single day.

    So I guess the tl;dr of it is, sure, you can joke about rape in an appropriate place. The problem is that the internet is not an appropriate place.

    No I didn't break out laughing, but I can defiantly sue you for making me chuckle. :P
    Just saying something without warning can get a chuckle out of people. It doesn't have to be relevant to be funny. In fact, that detour of randomness can get others to calm down or laugh.
    Or it could just annoy people who aren't in on your brand of humor, especially because that says to some people that you can't take a normal conversation seriously. :/ Just sayin'.

    I mean, let me put it another way. It doesn't work for everyone. That's why those fics where you had fourteen-year-olds running around going "OMG I'M HIGH ON SUGAR HERE'S SOME RANDOM STUFF THAT HAPPENED" sort of died down on FFNet as far as I know. It just wasn't funny to anyone but the people telling those jokes, and a similar situation goes on when you blurt out random things. It's only really funny to the people saying them because for everyone else, it's like you're having a serious conversation, and all of a sudden, you're talking about dolphins just because doing so amuses you. It's a very personal form of humor.
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 19th January 2013 at 6:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    And it's cool that you have the knowledge to do so, but what I'm saying is you originally wanted to use a female protagonist to explore those themes because you were saying she would, by default, introduce those themes into your work. (Or at least that's how I interpreted what you were saying.) Except, as I've said, just having a female protagonist doesn't automatically mean that you have those themes in your work or that it's easier to work with them if your main character is female. For the latter point, you could have the genders reversed (wherein the male is the one who's having a difficult time caused by the female), and that would bring up the double-standards issue. Controversially, sure, but there's plenty of issues nested within issues that are attached to both genders. Working with one isn't any easier than working with another, and either way, you won't necessarily be seen as exploring those issues in your work unless you actually do.
    I...don't understand the assumption made.
    I understand your thinking process after, but I don't understand how you got the interpretation. But whatever, I'll decide if I can add it. :/...



    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    The problem is that on the internet, there's not that many appropriate places. It's not an issue of morals or fighting either.

    Put it this way. Do you know what a trigger is? If not, lemme just describe it to you. Imagine being sad. Sadder than you ever have been. So sad that you literally can't function. You're feeling an immense amount of pain, and all you can do about it is sit there and experience a full-on emotional breakdown or anxiety attack because you're just so overwhelmed with how horrendous you feel. You literally can't function for long periods of time. Sometimes, it's minutes. Sometimes, it's hours. Sometimes, your entire day might be ruined just because you're feeling that terrible about everything.

    A trigger is what happens when someone reads or sees something that causes that. Why? It's not because they're oversensitive. It's because the thing reminds them of their pasts. They went through a moment in their lives where they've experienced something so traumatic that even remembering it causes them to stop functioning normally.

    Rape can do that to people. It's a moment where you feel so helpless and objectified that you're less than human. The people that you trusted not to touch you did. Sometimes, that person might even have been your best friend. They overpowered you, ignored what you had to say, and hurt you on a massively profound emotional level. Sometimes even physical level too. And that's only the beginning. Afterwards, you have to deal with the cleanup. You've been traumatized and violated in every sense of the word. You can't just walk away from that in one piece mentally.

    If you're lucky, people take you seriously. The judicial system gives your rapist a fair trial and sentences him to a long life in prison, and you get help that alleviates the trauma a little. You end up moving on after that. But most people aren't lucky. The judicial system might not care about them, so their rapist gets a light sentence or no sentence at all. They may become pregnant from the rape or contract a STI, either of which will remind them of the rape for years or even the rest of their lives (especially since there's countries that ban abortion, even in the case of rape). They might not even be able to get mental help in some cases.

    But either way, being reminded of the rape carries the risk of triggering them. Imagine being online, where you're supposed to get away from how crappy your life is, only to come across a thread where someone jokes about one of your triggers, and that shuts you down completely. It's not a pleasant experience.

    That's why the general public (which is what the internet is outside of private conversations like PMs, VMs, chats, e-mails, or boards where only your friends go to) is not an appropriate place to joke about rape. There are rape victims everywhere. The statistics are astronomical to the point where it's very likely that there are multiple active users on Serebii right now who were victims of rape or sexual abuse. And you just don't know who it is because not everyone talks about their experiences. In fact, most don't. So out of respect for those people, it's generally considered a good idea online to refrain from doing that except in places where it's explicitly appropriate. For example, if you're talking about rape in a thread about rape, it's sort of a given that that's okay. If you're with your friends and know that they're okay with rape jokes, that's okay too. You don't do it with strangers because you have no idea who they are or where they're coming from. You could very well be bringing up very uncomfortable, very real issues that affect them every single day.

    So I guess the tl;dr of it is, sure, you can joke about rape in an appropriate place. The problem is that the internet is not an appropriate place.
    Le sigh. I just don't get it. I mean I do, but I don't get how it infuses them with so much rage they have to come barging into what I said even though it was for a joke. Or heck, I even understand that part. But why does it turn into...this? Do they really think I don't care? I'm quite mature enough to stop, and just not mention it again. But I don't pay attention to that stuff because there's so many different views on things. I'm not going to restrict myself and watch every word I say without someone telling me too. I'm willing to listen and not speak, as long as I know to. If I have to restrict myself upon this...then I must restrict other things I say. Its hard to decide on what to choose, so I'd rather get directions from the people when to. And saying "The internet" is not a valid place just doesn't...make sense to me.

    And once again, I'm not out to come after these people who've had rape issues. In fact I'm perfectly fine with helping them. But in the end, I just don't want to restrict myself for the sake of people I don't even know when they're going to appear. I'd rather be prepared to say I'm sorry and get over it. I'm sorry if that causes them so much trouble, I really am. But as selfish as it might be, I'm not going to change my ways for them. I work like this because its easiest and makes the most sense to me. Plus... I say this from a perspective that has had a very similar experience. I'd be sharing it for the forth time on here. What is it with serebii.net and sharing this 3-4 year old story? >3>;... (It'd be through PM.)
    So I don't physically understand the problem myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    Or it could just annoy people who aren't in on your brand of humor, especially because that says to some people that you can't take a normal conversation seriously. :/ Just sayin'.

    I mean, let me put it another way. It doesn't work for everyone. That's why those fics where you had fourteen-year-olds running around going "OMG I'M HIGH ON SUGAR HERE'S SOME RANDOM STUFF THAT HAPPENED" sort of died down on FFNet as far as I know. It just wasn't funny to anyone but the people telling those jokes, and a similar situation goes on when you blurt out random things. It's only really funny to the people saying them because for everyone else, it's like you're having a serious conversation, and all of a sudden, you're talking about dolphins just because doing so amuses you. It's a very personal form of humor.
    Again, I just don't get it. Why does it irritate people so much? Is it really that stupid? Or rather, does it matter if its stupid? I don't understand. If anything, I feel like I'm just from a different perspective. And because I'm from a different perspective, why do I have to be treated as "lower" then some other form of funny? I don't care if the other form is more "common", its just jokes and comical things. If it really matters to someone, I'll back off and stop. But only if I get it told to me nicely. @.@ I had a very similar argument on the general chat thread. I don't get what all the hate or reactions are for. I don't react badly (situational, I admit. But isn't everything?) to anything but rude assumptions that are purposely done to piss the other side off...
    Besides, the thing did have SOME relevance to what we were talking about. Even if it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it still WAS a reason.

    As for serious conversation... Blegh. Once again, I draw the line at "what requires serious and what requires funny?" I find a mix of both to be quite appealing thank you very much. If you can't stay positive, or at the very least constructive...then things fall apart. A laugh or two helps to alleviate that pit into instinctual anger and annoyance at stupid comments which fill any kind of debate thread.


    Also, now that the fic story conversation is completely dead, lets move this someplace else.
    Last edited by EmphaticPikachu; 19th January 2013 at 7:43 AM.
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    Such a sexy song. Urgh.

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    Because a lot of this does have to do with your idea, I'm just going to put my response here. If you'd like to VM or PM me about anything else, feel free.

    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    I...don't understand the assumption made.
    I understand your thinking process after, but I don't understand how you got the interpretation.
    You said this:

    part of the reason I want a female lead is because it makes the audience usually more sympathetic, especially with the Boy
    Over the course of the conversation, we've talked about what you meant by it. My initial response to it was that audiences don't really connect to female characters more than male characters; they connect to both genders equally the same because it depends on how the characters are actually written.

    You responded by saying that your character isn't a Mary Sue. I replied by saying that I wasn't calling your character a Mary Sue. I was saying that female characters aren't exactly readily embraced by audiences and that, actually, they're very likely not to be embraced. I also included a comment about how no one would assume that what you're doing is rape fic, which started a completely different conversation. There was also a bit of commentary that themes are fine so long as you put a lot of thought into what you were doing, and I felt like the issues you were going to present in this fic were going to be trivial compared to, say, bullying or abuse.

    You replied to that by saying females get more sympathy towards certain issues than males. I replied that, sure, they do in certain situations but not in others and that it takes a lot of thought to tackle the issues where they do. I repeated what I was saying earlier that a female character doesn't automatically get more sympathy than a male in every situation (be it from the audience or within their own universe), so if you're going to tackle those issues, do your research and choose your subject and how you tackle it carefully (i.e., “it depends on what you talk about and how you talk about it”).

    You responded with a list of topics you're aware of. I replied with, “Yeah, that's nice, but you still have to be careful with how you deal with it in a fanfic.”

    And that's how we got here.

    Tl;dr, you started off by saying that a female character is more sympathetic to the audience than a male character, and that was in response to a suggestion someone made to your idea. I was trying to say that that wasn't true and that it really doesn't matter what gender your main character is so long as you write them well, so you don't have to automatically throw out a suggestion like “you could always write about Ash instead of Dawn since you want the Ash-Paul dynamic here.”

    And that, yes, is related to your idea because I've been trying to tell you this entire time that the gender of your character most likely wouldn't matter that much according to the idea you've presented in this thread. Audiences don't connect more to male or female readers, and while there are issues that you could bring up that would depend on the gender of the character in question, you haven't really indicated that you're going after any of them. Your fic isn't about double-standards as far as we (everyone else in this thread) can tell. It's just about a girl who's constantly being stopped from winning by a guy. If your fic idea involves a rather abusive boy actually hurting or bullying a girl, then sure, that theme of "guys shouldn't hurt girls" ends up getting brought up, but the thing is that abuse is gender-neutral. People already understand that guys shouldn't hurt girls. It's the message of people shouldn't hurt people that folks have a difficult time understanding, and luckily, that's a message that you can explore without forcing your characters to be one set gender or another. As in, you can have a male lead if you wanted to. In fact, if you had a male lead getting abused by a female, you'd actually have a lot more deep issues to explore than you would in a story about a female lead and a male abuser.

    Le sigh. I just don't get it. I mean I do, but I don't get how it infuses them with so much rage they have to come barging into what I said even though it was for a joke.
    Put it this way. Imagine that you're white, and you go to a public area where there's people of all races. Say the N-word and see how long it lasts you before someone tells you you're being racist. It's the same principle here. There are just certain things you do not talk about because it's hurtful towards other people.

    Also, if you're saying I'm angry... I'm not really all that mad. I'm just saying if you're going to be in mixed company, you'll want to know that not everything is going to be okay to talk about. Or at least I'm explaining why people would get pissed off at you before they get pissed off at you.

    Do they really think I don't care?
    Well, if you're going to continue to “talk about rape casually” without understanding that, yes, it can hurt someone legitimately, then yeah, people are not going to think you care. I'm sorry to put it like that, but I'm not quite sure how to make it any clearer that what you say can actually hurt someone pretty badly, even if they don't tell you. I also don't know how to clearly explain that there are people out there who are very vocal about the issue of rape (to the point where they make me in my current booze-less and caffeine-free state look like Little Miss Sunshine). That kind of thing legitimately shuts the people with triggers down because it brings up painful emotional trauma for them. It's like telling someone with depression to go kill themselves because you think it's funny or calling someone who's autistic retarded. You've got to be conscious and respectful of other people in order to interact with them because you have no idea if what you say is actually going to hurt someone.

    And for the other types of people -- the type that I was talking about originally -- they just exist. You can't flip out and say "omg I don't understand why must they be soooooo meeeeeean" because... that's just not the mature thing to do. Yeah, I know, neither is arguing on the internet in the first place, but what I'm saying is if you want to get along with someone, you've got to make an effort to understand and accept other points of view. Rather than closing your mind off to everyone and saying "I'll just keep on doing this thing that I'm getting called out on" after you've been told it's inconsiderate, make an effort to figure out why people are telling you those things. Do your research. Don't blow off other people's opinions just because there's multiple sides to an issue. If you show that you're open-minded and flexible about things, then it's easier to accept the main reason why I'm telling you this: because these people exist, and you just have to deal with them. At the risk of being sappy, you can't change them; you can only change yourself. Blowing them off is not the answer. Trying to understand what they have to say and being willing to adapt when they call you out on something is. That's how you integrate into different communities without drama.

    Granted, I'm not saying go overboard with your self-censorship. If you want to call someone a *****, by all means, go for it. I'm just saying that human interaction depends on both parties being aware of the fact that what they say can hurt someone before they actually say it. It relies on, well, a sense of empathy.

    But I don't pay attention to that stuff because there's so many different views on things.
    That's... not really much of an excuse for hurting someone else, sorry to say. If I punched you in the face right now (if we were face-to-face) and said that it's okay because people joke about punching other people in the face all the time, would that make it okay to you? That's the main argument against rape jokes. But like I said, there's crazier people, so one of the things you have to learn is the difference between people who are legit defending folks with triggers and people who are legit crazy. That's something you can only learn if you do your homework.

    I'm not going to restrict myself and watch every word I say without someone telling me too. I'm willing to listen and not speak, as long as I know to. If I have to restrict myself upon this...then I must restrict other things I say. Its hard to decide on what to choose, so I'd rather get directions from the people when to. And saying "The internet" is not a valid place just doesn't...make sense to me.
    You're in public, bro. Saying things on a forum is exactly like going out on a busy street and shouting your opinions to everyone who passes by you. Freedom of speech on the internet has the same rules as human decency off it. Don't say anything that hurts anyone else, and joking about rape when there are actual rape victims out there would be saying something that hurts another person.

    Or in other words, put it this way. By your logic, I can call you a moron and a jerk if I thought you were either. Except I won't because I know that would hurt you (besides getting me in trouble as well). It's the same principle. Don't joke about rape when you don't know who's reading unless it's completely and unquestionably okay for me to call you a moron. (Again, I'm not saying you are. I'm just using it as an example.)

    In fact I'm perfectly fine with helping them.
    But you're completely okay with triggering them and trivializing what they went through by joking about it, though. :/

    I'd rather be prepared to say I'm sorry and get over it.
    Remember that an apology only gets you so far if you're not going to change your behavior to avoid doing it again. I mean, this whole thing is sort of like what would happen if I punched you in the face, apologized for it, and then promptly punched you in the face again.

    Plus... I say this from a perspective that has had a very similar experience.
    Well, then you'd get why it's not okay to bring up someone else's emotional trauma and joke about it where they can see it. I mean, if you're not even willing to talk about what happened to you in front of all of us, why do you think it's okay to talk about what happened to someone else as if it's a joke?

    Again, I just don't get it. Why does it irritate people so much? Is it really that stupid? ... And because I'm from a different perspective, why do I have to be treated as "lower" then some other form of funny?
    I never said that I'm looking down on you. I said that what you're doing doesn't strike me as funny because it's a personal form of humor to you. You're very concerned about what you think, but you don't really think about how others will react to what you have to say. That's not going to fly for everyone on the internet because a lot of communicating online hinges on making sure what you have to say gets across properly thanks to an inability to rely on tone, body language, or familiarity with the people on the other end of the conversation. I'm also not saying you're a newbie to the internet; rather, I'm saying that the reason why we're having all of these conversations is because it seems like you're forgetting the people on the other end of the line aren't you. That's why I didn't find your statement funny, that's why you have to be careful about talking about rape, and so on and so forth.

    If it really matters to someone, I'll back off and stop. But only if I get it told to me nicely. @.@ I had a very similar argument on the general chat thread. I don't get what all the hate or reactions are for.
    Like I said... *motions above* A lot of it is just that you'll need to stop and think about what you're saying and who you're saying it to before you end up in these kinds of situations where you run headlong into drama. That's just how communication works, especially on the internet.

    I don't mean to be mean about it. I'm just saying, y'know, the internet runs on empathy. It really does.

    That being said, yes, please stop. Please stop hurting others by joking about rape, and please don't use random humor. I'm legit asking you nicely to be careful about what you say to other people, in part because I hate seeing other people get triggered. The other part is because, well, I'm just trying to warn you that there are all kinds of people on the internet, so you have to be conscious of what you say because they're people. While I know you've said that people you know offline are okay with rape jokes, but I'm sure that you just can't say anything you want to them. It's the same thing online too. Just because you don't see someone online doesn't mean you can't hurt them -- or they can't try to hurt you in response, either. If you don't want to change yourself for the consideration of other people, at least do it to protect yourself from their responses.

    It's sort of funny, though -- and I have to point it out right now -- that all of this started when I told you that you don't have to worry about people calling you out for writing rape fic because you're not writing rape fic. I was actually trying to help you at that point by agreeing that there are crazy social justice warriors on the internet (when I thought that was what you were talking about) and that you don't have to be afraid of them because if they said you were writing about rape or something darker, then they had no idea what they were talking about.

    The rest (including this post) is an attempt at trying to explain to you how other people's minds work because you're going to run into a whole host of problems if you don't check yourself before you head into other communities.

    Besides, the thing did have SOME relevance to what we were talking about. Even if it wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it still WAS a reason.
    Which means we circle back to the original reason why I brought it up (which goes back to your idea): because I didn't see the connection. That was a genuine question that I asked earlier, and you responded with, “Lol it was just a joke.” Well, if it wasn't, then why didn't you say so earlier? It would have added to your idea and brought to light some issues that would have definitely been interesting to talk about in relation to your idea. There's a lot of themes built into the genderbend subgenre (just as there are issues built into the transformation fic genre), but those aren't always the same as the issues brought up in a non-genderbend fic that involves a girl. If you wanted to talk about genderbend fic on a serious level by connecting it with your idea, that would have actually been a rather fun conversation to have.

    I find a mix of both to be quite appealing thank you very much. If you can't stay positive, or at the very least constructive...then things fall apart. A laugh or two helps to alleviate that pit into instinctual anger and annoyance at stupid comments which fill any kind of debate thread.
    Except for the fact that, again, you need empathy to pull it off. If the other party doesn't get your humor because it's random and personal to you, then they won't find it funny. Communication – and humor – is a two-way street. You can't just say things out of nowhere and rely on irrelevance to get a laugh because, well, you've got to think about the other half of the conversation too.

    Likewise, there's just some subjects that you don't joke about with strangers. Not unless you're prepared to deal with being called out on something.

    Edit: I'd also like to point out the irony in the fact that your fic is about acceptance of criticism, yet when you receive criticism ("be careful with how you say things to other people" and "gender probably won't matter as much in this fic"), your reaction is, "LOL OMG IT'S JUST A JOKE." That... would not be an example of accepting criticism.

    Look, if you want to talk about the issues in your fic, feel free. I've been trying to get you to talk about the issues you've been implying all over the place (issues that are apparently dependent on the gender of your character, among other things) for several posts now, but you'd rather talk about how I don't get your fic or how I've been talking about something completely different apparently. So, I'm just going to straight-up ask you. Are you still considering that idea, and if so, what specific issues are you trying to explore besides the acceptance of criticism? (As in, what issues make the genderbend fic relevant, and what issues make it impossible to switch out your character for someone else/a guy?)
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 19th January 2013 at 11:09 AM.

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  16. #1166
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    I'm thinking of writing a one-shot about how the first Gothielle come into existence.

    The Pokedex entry suggested that Gothielle cries about seeing his trainer's death right? So I'm going to write a fic with similarities to Adam and Eve, where Arceus tells Gothielle nots to eat this. But Giratina, who wants revenge on Arceus, convinces her to do this. She eats it, and so then, she became "wiser" in a way that she can now see through death and casualties.

    Is this idea to copy + paste with edits? Please give me feedbacks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    Because a lot of this does have to do with your idea, I'm just going to put my response here. If you'd like to VM or PM me about anything else, feel free.



    You said this:



    Over the course of the conversation, we've talked about what you meant by it. My initial response to it was that audiences don't really connect to female characters more than male characters; they connect to both genders equally the same because it depends on how the characters are actually written.

    You responded by saying that your character isn't a Mary Sue. I replied by saying that I wasn't calling your character a Mary Sue. I was saying that female characters aren't exactly readily embraced by audiences and that, actually, they're very likely not to be embraced. I also included a comment about how no one would assume that what you're doing is rape fic, which started a completely different conversation. There was also a bit of commentary that themes are fine so long as you put a lot of thought into what you were doing, and I felt like the issues you were going to present in this fic were going to be trivial compared to, say, bullying or abuse.

    You replied to that by saying females get more sympathy towards certain issues than males. I replied that, sure, they do in certain situations but not in others and that it takes a lot of thought to tackle the issues where they do. I repeated what I was saying earlier that a female character doesn't automatically get more sympathy than a male in every situation (be it from the audience or within their own universe), so if you're going to tackle those issues, do your research and choose your subject and how you tackle it carefully (i.e., “it depends on what you talk about and how you talk about it”).

    You responded with a list of topics you're aware of. I replied with, “Yeah, that's nice, but you still have to be careful with how you deal with it in a fanfic.”

    And that's how we got here.

    Tl;dr, you started off by saying that a female character is more sympathetic to the audience than a male character, and that was in response to a suggestion someone made to your idea. I was trying to say that that wasn't true and that it really doesn't matter what gender your main character is so long as you write them well, so you don't have to automatically throw out a suggestion like “you could always write about Ash instead of Dawn since you want the Ash-Paul dynamic here.”

    And that, yes, is related to your idea because I've been trying to tell you this entire time that the gender of your character most likely wouldn't matter that much according to the idea you've presented in this thread. Audiences don't connect more to male or female readers, and while there are issues that you could bring up that would depend on the gender of the character in question, you haven't really indicated that you're going after any of them. Your fic isn't about double-standards as far as we (everyone else in this thread) can tell. It's just about a girl who's constantly being stopped from winning by a guy. If your fic idea involves a rather abusive boy actually hurting or bullying a girl, then sure, that theme of "guys shouldn't hurt girls" ends up getting brought up, but the thing is that abuse is gender-neutral. People already understand that guys shouldn't hurt girls. It's the message of people shouldn't hurt people that folks have a difficult time understanding, and luckily, that's a message that you can explore without forcing your characters to be one set gender or another. As in, you can have a male lead if you wanted to. In fact, if you had a male lead getting abused by a female, you'd actually have a lot more deep issues to explore than you would in a story about a female lead and a male abuser.



    Put it this way. Imagine that you're white, and you go to a public area where there's people of all races. Say the N-word and see how long it lasts you before someone tells you you're being racist. It's the same principle here. There are just certain things you do not talk about because it's hurtful towards other people.

    Also, if you're saying I'm angry... I'm not really all that mad. I'm just saying if you're going to be in mixed company, you'll want to know that not everything is going to be okay to talk about. Or at least I'm explaining why people would get pissed off at you before they get pissed off at you.



    Well, if you're going to continue to “talk about rape casually” without understanding that, yes, it can hurt someone legitimately, then yeah, people are not going to think you care. I'm sorry to put it like that, but I'm not quite sure how to make it any clearer that what you say can actually hurt someone pretty badly, even if they don't tell you. I also don't know how to clearly explain that there are people out there who are very vocal about the issue of rape (to the point where they make me in my current booze-less and caffeine-free state look like Little Miss Sunshine). That kind of thing legitimately shuts the people with triggers down because it brings up painful emotional trauma for them. It's like telling someone with depression to go kill themselves because you think it's funny or calling someone who's autistic retarded. You've got to be conscious and respectful of other people in order to interact with them because you have no idea if what you say is actually going to hurt someone.

    And for the other types of people -- the type that I was talking about originally -- they just exist. You can't flip out and say "omg I don't understand why must they be soooooo meeeeeean" because... that's just not the mature thing to do. Yeah, I know, neither is arguing on the internet in the first place, but what I'm saying is if you want to get along with someone, you've got to make an effort to understand and accept other points of view. Rather than closing your mind off to everyone and saying "I'll just keep on doing this thing that I'm getting called out on" after you've been told it's inconsiderate, make an effort to figure out why people are telling you those things. Do your research. Don't blow off other people's opinions just because there's multiple sides to an issue. If you show that you're open-minded and flexible about things, then it's easier to accept the main reason why I'm telling you this: because these people exist, and you just have to deal with them. At the risk of being sappy, you can't change them; you can only change yourself. Blowing them off is not the answer. Trying to understand what they have to say and being willing to adapt when they call you out on something is. That's how you integrate into different communities without drama.

    Granted, I'm not saying go overboard with your self-censorship. If you want to call someone a *****, by all means, go for it. I'm just saying that human interaction depends on both parties being aware of the fact that what they say can hurt someone before they actually say it. It relies on, well, a sense of empathy.



    That's... not really much of an excuse for hurting someone else, sorry to say. If I punched you in the face right now (if we were face-to-face) and said that it's okay because people joke about punching other people in the face all the time, would that make it okay to you? That's the main argument against rape jokes. But like I said, there's crazier people, so one of the things you have to learn is the difference between people who are legit defending folks with triggers and people who are legit crazy. That's something you can only learn if you do your homework.



    You're in public, bro. Saying things on a forum is exactly like going out on a busy street and shouting your opinions to everyone who passes by you. Freedom of speech on the internet has the same rules as human decency off it. Don't say anything that hurts anyone else, and joking about rape when there are actual rape victims out there would be saying something that hurts another person.

    Or in other words, put it this way. By your logic, I can call you a moron and a jerk if I thought you were either. Except I won't because I know that would hurt you (besides getting me in trouble as well). It's the same principle. Don't joke about rape when you don't know who's reading unless it's completely and unquestionably okay for me to call you a moron. (Again, I'm not saying you are. I'm just using it as an example.)



    But you're completely okay with triggering them and trivializing what they went through by joking about it, though. :/



    Remember that an apology only gets you so far if you're not going to change your behavior to avoid doing it again. I mean, this whole thing is sort of like what would happen if I punched you in the face, apologized for it, and then promptly punched you in the face again.



    Well, then you'd get why it's not okay to bring up someone else's emotional trauma and joke about it where they can see it. I mean, if you're not even willing to talk about what happened to you in front of all of us, why do you think it's okay to talk about what happened to someone else as if it's a joke?



    I never said that I'm looking down on you. I said that what you're doing doesn't strike me as funny because it's a personal form of humor to you. You're very concerned about what you think, but you don't really think about how others will react to what you have to say. That's not going to fly for everyone on the internet because a lot of communicating online hinges on making sure what you have to say gets across properly thanks to an inability to rely on tone, body language, or familiarity with the people on the other end of the conversation. I'm also not saying you're a newbie to the internet; rather, I'm saying that the reason why we're having all of these conversations is because it seems like you're forgetting the people on the other end of the line aren't you. That's why I didn't find your statement funny, that's why you have to be careful about talking about rape, and so on and so forth.



    Like I said... *motions above* A lot of it is just that you'll need to stop and think about what you're saying and who you're saying it to before you end up in these kinds of situations where you run headlong into drama. That's just how communication works, especially on the internet.

    I don't mean to be mean about it. I'm just saying, y'know, the internet runs on empathy. It really does.

    That being said, yes, please stop. Please stop hurting others by joking about rape, and please don't use random humor. I'm legit asking you nicely to be careful about what you say to other people, in part because I hate seeing other people get triggered. The other part is because, well, I'm just trying to warn you that there are all kinds of people on the internet, so you have to be conscious of what you say because they're people. While I know you've said that people you know offline are okay with rape jokes, but I'm sure that you just can't say anything you want to them. It's the same thing online too. Just because you don't see someone online doesn't mean you can't hurt them -- or they can't try to hurt you in response, either. If you don't want to change yourself for the consideration of other people, at least do it to protect yourself from their responses.

    It's sort of funny, though -- and I have to point it out right now -- that all of this started when I told you that you don't have to worry about people calling you out for writing rape fic because you're not writing rape fic. I was actually trying to help you at that point by agreeing that there are crazy social justice warriors on the internet (when I thought that was what you were talking about) and that you don't have to be afraid of them because if they said you were writing about rape or something darker, then they had no idea what they were talking about.

    The rest (including this post) is an attempt at trying to explain to you how other people's minds work because you're going to run into a whole host of problems if you don't check yourself before you head into other communities.



    Which means we circle back to the original reason why I brought it up (which goes back to your idea): because I didn't see the connection. That was a genuine question that I asked earlier, and you responded with, “Lol it was just a joke.” Well, if it wasn't, then why didn't you say so earlier? It would have added to your idea and brought to light some issues that would have definitely been interesting to talk about in relation to your idea. There's a lot of themes built into the genderbend subgenre (just as there are issues built into the transformation fic genre), but those aren't always the same as the issues brought up in a non-genderbend fic that involves a girl. If you wanted to talk about genderbend fic on a serious level by connecting it with your idea, that would have actually been a rather fun conversation to have.



    Except for the fact that, again, you need empathy to pull it off. If the other party doesn't get your humor because it's random and personal to you, then they won't find it funny. Communication – and humor – is a two-way street. You can't just say things out of nowhere and rely on irrelevance to get a laugh because, well, you've got to think about the other half of the conversation too.

    Likewise, there's just some subjects that you don't joke about with strangers. Not unless you're prepared to deal with being called out on something.

    Edit: I'd also like to point out the irony in the fact that your fic is about acceptance of criticism, yet when you receive criticism ("be careful with how you say things to other people" and "gender probably won't matter as much in this fic"), your reaction is, "LOL OMG IT'S JUST A JOKE." That... would not be an example of accepting criticism.

    Look, if you want to talk about the issues in your fic, feel free. I've been trying to get you to talk about the issues you've been implying all over the place (issues that are apparently dependent on the gender of your character, among other things) for several posts now, but you'd rather talk about how I don't get your fic or how I've been talking about something completely different apparently. So, I'm just going to straight-up ask you. Are you still considering that idea, and if so, what specific issues are you trying to explore besides the acceptance of criticism? (As in, what issues make the genderbend fic relevant, and what issues make it impossible to switch out your character for someone else/a guy?)
    Oh dear... I can't take this much to respond to with headache...
    I'm not trying to be rude or anything. And I feel VERY awkward asking this of someone given that I've been criticized of doing it myself and I know how it feels...But could you please simplify your responses? Don't even simplify them, just shorten them. I feel like I should encompass everything you say, yet there's so much extra stuff in there that my mind is going on the frizz and my logic is dieing. So please, just tell me what you want from me in a more direct way. Preferably in a place not about fics.

    And no, I don't really have anymore questions about the fic. To be quite honest, I don't think I'm gonna even bother with it...This whole argument is on my mind right now, and the fact that my logic is caving in on itself worries me. Asking another question is like adding fuel to the already burning flame. I'm trying to directly understand why I'm wrong, and if my experiences don't justify my way of thinking as at least plausible. The fic is NOT the thing on my mind now.
    Last edited by EmphaticPikachu; 19th January 2013 at 5:18 PM.
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  18. #1168
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmphaticPikachu View Post
    Oh dear... I can't take this much to respond to with headache...
    I'm not trying to be rude or anything. And I feel VERY awkward asking this of someone given that I've been criticized of doing it myself and I know how it feels...But could you please simplify your responses? Don't even simplify them, just shorten them. I feel like I should encompass everything you say, yet there's so much extra stuff in there that my mind is going on the frizz and my logic is dieing. So please, just tell me what you want from me in a more direct way. Preferably in a place not about fics.

    And no, I don't really have anymore questions about the fic. To be quite honest, I don't think I'm gonna even bother with it...This whole argument is on my mind right now, and the fact that my logic is caving in on itself worries me. Asking another question is like adding fuel to the already burning flame. I'm trying to directly understand why I'm wrong, and if my experiences don't justify my way of thinking as at least plausible. The fic is NOT the thing on my mind now.
    I hate to be blunt, but this really sounds like "too long; didn't read" (aka tl;dr). It would be fine if you said "I think I understand your point regarding X, but can you please be a bit more concise about Y?" because it would at least show that you're making an effort and at least trying to read and understand what she said. If you just see a long post and your response is "that is too many words for me to read," you're not going to have an easy time on the internet. It won't earn you much respect. Now, I'm sure you did make an effort and tried to read it, but unfortunately whether you intended it or not, it doesn't sound that way.


    To restate one of Jax's extremely important points, the reason joking about rape on the internet is bad is because it hurts people; if you want to get along with others on the internet, you should think about what you say before you say it so you don't hurt people. For instance, in real life, in a public place with all kinds of people, would you use words that are offensive to groups of people, like the words that hurt black people or gay people or mentally handicapped people? Obviously not! Why? Because you know that by using those words, you would offend people, and you're a good person and you don't want to offend people. Jax just said the same thing about rape jokes; because the same way black people are hurt by the N word, rape victims can also be hurt by rape jokes. Why would you be afraid of hurting one group of people but not another? Why only be sensitive to one group of people but not another?

    All you have to do is think before you speak. Ask yourself "could this hurt someone? Could this trigger someone? Have people told me not to say this because it might offend someone?" before you post. If the answer to any of those questions is yes, then just change what you want to say. It's quite simple. Also, as a moderator, I am going to ask you not to make rape jokes on this forum.


    Regarding random humour, you just have to accept that most people don't find it funny. If you're trying to make people laugh, and you use random humour, you probably won't succeed. The people who use random humour tend to be younger, and they tend to not know any other ways to be funny. As a result, random humour is associated with being immature. People find it harder to take someone who uses random humour seriously. That's just the way it is.

    So if you want the majority of people to find you funny, and if you want to be taken seriously, random humour isn't going to help you. Sorry.


    Since this has gotten pretty off-topic at this point, please take this to VM or PM.

    ~Psychic
    Last edited by Psychic; 19th January 2013 at 5:52 PM.

  19. #1169
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    *high fives Psychic* Thanks for helping me out there. You know how rambly I get, and I'm pretty sure I can't really summarize what I was trying to say any better than you just did.

    That being said, I kinda feel bad that Oceanic's just sort of sitting at the edge of all of this, so!

    Quote Originally Posted by OceanicLanturn View Post
    I'm thinking of writing a one-shot about how the first Gothielle come into existence.

    The Pokedex entry suggested that Gothielle cries about seeing his trainer's death right? So I'm going to write a fic with similarities to Adam and Eve, where Arceus tells Gothielle nots to eat this. But Giratina, who wants revenge on Arceus, convinces her to do this. She eats it, and so then, she became "wiser" in a way that she can now see through death and casualties.

    Is this idea to copy + paste with edits? Please give me feedbacks.
    I honestly can't find anything wrong with this. It's pretty rare to see someone use actual Old Testament in a Pokémon fanfic, so it'd be interesting to see how those two go together.

    The only suggestion I've got is to make sure that Giratina's motives are clear. Right now, this has got a really good Paradise Lost feel to it, and if that's what you were going for, remember that the reason Satan chose to tempt Eve was because Adam and Eve were supposed to be God's pet project. So it could probably use some thoughts on why Giratina chose Gothitelle here, but you're probably already thinking about that anyway. Which means that you're good to go.

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  20. #1170
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    I got a new idea for a fan fic. A Team Plasma member watches Ghetsis fail once again and realizes being a bad guy is the wrong path. He helps Looker round up some of the other Plasma members and is offered the chance to start a new life in the new region. He takes the offer and takes his two trusty pokemon with him to the region. It seems that he is finally at peace but then a new evil rises. They plan to control Xerneas and Yveltal. Will he be able to stop them in time or will he revert back to his evil side?

  21. #1171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoruagible View Post
    I got a new idea for a fan fic. A Team Plasma member watches Ghetsis fail once again and realizes being a bad guy is the wrong path. He helps Looker round up some of the other Plasma members and is offered the chance to start a new life in the new region. He takes the offer and takes his two trusty pokemon with him to the region. It seems that he is finally at peace but then a new evil rises. They plan to control Xerneas and Yveltal. Will he be able to stop them in time or will he revert back to his evil side?
    If you're planning on holding off until October for this, it'd be an interesting idea. The character certainly sounds new, different, and potentially fun to follow.

    It's just that if you start writing this fic any earlier than October, you're functioning on very little information whatsoever. Yes, I know we're all excited about Gen VI, but it's really, really difficult to write an adventure fic set in a region that you don't know the name of. Never mind, of course, knowing what lives there, what the geography is, and so forth.

    So if you can wait that long to write this fic, go for it. Otherwise, I'd love to see what you'd do with this character, but you may be best off in a different region.

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    I've been thinking about this Mareep-centric story for a bit, dunno if/when I'll get around to writing it. The exact setting is a bit fuzzy, but a circus would be the foreground. It feels like it would be a third-person centric, and it would follow this Mareep who is trying to _________. The hook would be his/her trait that earned them a spot in the circus, which is _________. However, their ability has the downside of _________, and an antagonistic character will be stepping in to abuse that weakness and cause trouble.

    I know this sounds like a game of Mad Libs, but I just haven't really explored any ideas that I think are winners yet. Sure, it could be a shiny Mareep trying to escape a cruel circusmaster, but that feels boring to me. Why not have it be a Mareep that has a sort of animal magnetism, or have the antagonist be a rising new attraction who is uncomfortable with the attention the Mareep commands, and wants to steal the spotlight?

    IT feels as though I've got a quarter of the way through a puzzle and still don't know what the picture is. It could be anything, but I really hope it's something good.
    "That poison's only strong enough to kill a dead dog"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    If you're planning on holding off until October for this, it'd be an interesting idea. The character certainly sounds new, different, and potentially fun to follow.

    It's just that if you start writing this fic any earlier than October, you're functioning on very little information whatsoever. Yes, I know we're all excited about Gen VI, but it's really, really difficult to write an adventure fic set in a region that you don't know the name of. Never mind, of course, knowing what lives there, what the geography is, and so forth.

    So if you can wait that long to write this fic, go for it. Otherwise, I'd love to see what you'd do with this character, but you may be best off in a different region.
    I was planning on starting in October since i'll have plenty of time to keep up with the fic. I might start it a bit early if enough information on the new region gets gathered.

  24. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by IJuggler View Post
    I've been thinking about this Mareep-centric story for a bit, dunno if/when I'll get around to writing it. The exact setting is a bit fuzzy, but a circus would be the foreground. It feels like it would be a third-person centric, and it would follow this Mareep who is trying to _________. The hook would be his/her trait that earned them a spot in the circus, which is _________. However, their ability has the downside of _________, and an antagonistic character will be stepping in to abuse that weakness and cause trouble.

    I know this sounds like a game of Mad Libs,
    I LOVE MAD LIBS.

    Discover Atlantis.
    The ability to say the alphabet backwards.
    Being forced to wear sparkly spandex.

    ("It would follow this Mareep who is trying to discover Atlantis. The hook would be his/her trait that earned them a spot in the circus, which is the ability to say the alphabet backwards. However, their ability has the downside of being forced to wear sparkly spandex...")

    And then Jax is banned from the Fic Ideas thread forever.

    Seriously, though, I would love to read a fic about circus Pokémon in general. It's something shiny and different, and you're practically required to come up with really interesting characters as a result of it. (Show biz characters are interesting in themselves, but mixing in carnies and sideshow attractions...)

    I have to say, though, that I really do encourage you to pursue the jealous new attraction angle instead of the cruel circus master one. The reason why is because honestly? I agree. You see a lot of cruel circus masters in media, and you also see a lot of *** hole trainers in angsty Pokémon-centered fic. It'd be nice if the main conflict came out of a rivalry between two Pokémon.

    As for the blanks, I have no serious answer. Maybe Mareep really does enjoy being part of the circus and is desperately trying to stay in, but the competition between him/her and the aforementioned rival makes that uncertain? Maybe you could pull a Toy Story, wherein Mareep is lost as the circus is traveling from one city to another thanks to that rival? Maybe (s)he wants to be elsewhere, but the rival is inadvertently thwarting every attempt (s)he's making at escaping? You do have a lot of possibilities here, and the key is probably to develop Mareep's motivation first. I'd suggest doing some research into what kinds of performers real circuses feature or how those circuses use animals. Spending a bit more time with the research material might give you some ideas as to where Mareep's place in his/her circus is.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by JX Valentine; 23rd January 2013 at 10:39 PM.

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    Ah, but the trick is to be thematic!

    I've been thinking about this Mareep-centric story for a bit, dunno if/when I'll get around to writing it. The exact setting is a bit fuzzy, but a circus would be the foreground. It feels like it would be a third-person centric, and it would follow this Mareep who is trying to fly to the moon. The hook would be his/her trait that earned them a spot in the circus, which is their rocket science degree. However, their ability has the downside of acrophobia...

    Yeah, if I had a nickel for every circus leader who had a greasy mustache and a snarling voice, I'd be set. The Toy Story reference hit me right in the childhood, haha.

    The idea of Mareep wanting to be in the circus gives me a lot of good ideas - how she (feels like it would be a she, and it never hurts to practice writing against gender) left her Trainer/kin/friends, what challenges she had to face along the way, finally making it, and then moving onto the actual story itself. Good motivations! But now there's just the finicky 'truth' things to work in correctly, like how a circus would work in a world teeming with dragons and fire-breathers. That's the fun of writing though, innit?

    Thanks for the help!
    "That poison's only strong enough to kill a dead dog"

    A boy and his frog, venturing across the lands in search of sister and glory.

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