Evolving Strategy (600)

[Chris_K]

Everytime Ash loses I always remember his promise to himself "I'll never lose to that guy again"... when does he plan to make good on that? Anyway I can't believe they had Ash lose so badly, although I thought his Pokemon put up a great fight, and I loved the use of the countershields. I also think that Pikachu could have beaten Magmortor had it gone on (maybe Paul knew that too?) But when in God's name is with that Ursaring??!! It seemed unstoppable, and I hated how all those status problems worked in Paul's favor, first the burn, then the paralysis, and Monferno's paralysis? That's just too much! And why does Light Screen act like a protect for the whole team?

I'm not sure where the writers are going with this, but it doesn't seem like they want Ash to catch up. I'm thinking that instead of Ash winning Paul in the League, that they'll have Paul's Pokemon end up refusing to battle the ending of a match or something, being finally fed up with him, and therefore there is Ash's "victory" although that would greatly piss me off.

[catzeye]

I'm not sure where the writers are going with this, but it doesn't seem like they want Ash to catch up. I'm thinking that instead of Ash winning Paul in the League, that they'll have Paul's Pokemon end up refusing to battle the ending of a match or something, being finally fed up with him, and therefore there is Ash's "victory" although that would greatly piss me off.

I've actually thought of that being a possibilty although that is really cheesy if the writers decide to do that.

Anyways great battle but the writers have officially lost it! Ursaring is definitely a beast. Paul had the statuses and abilities on his side. Ash clearly had no chance. And here I thought it would've been closer. So we wouldn't know who would win the league. I mean now it looks like unless Ash uses reserves or has his team evolve then he is jsut going to get his butt handed to him again.

[FireTyrano]

Seriously, Why did ash use mach punch instead of a fire attack after blaze got activated? I would have been more effective, dont you think...

[Journeyman]

Man... Ash whited out...

I'm torn between wanting to say, "Hey, you did your best. That's all anyone can ask for." and "You suck! This happens when you don't keep your good Pokemon! Especially Charizard!"

[Dax]

I don’t even know how to describe this battle. It was epic but it was so full of fail at the same time.

Pikachu’s burn was so quick and sudden. I just expected a little more however it was awesome how Pikachu used Volt Tackle while Rock Tomb(?) was hitting it. It was a great piece of animation thanks to Iwane. I love how the burn animation was so epic though.

I love Buizel! The way it battled was great even if it didn’t win. I love how it launched the Water Pulse to Magmortar. Ursaring looked deadly! It looks so mad and intimidating. It trashed Buizel with Hammer Arm and it looked amazing but it was actually how Buizel told Ash he was okay what I like the most. It shows Buizel really trusts Ash. Too bad it lost, I wanted Buizel to win.

Staraptor dodging the Hammer Arm and launching Aerial Ace right in Ursaring’s face was great and how it recovered from Focus Blast and went right in for Close Combat with its leg looked awesome as well. Too bad Close Combat didn’t hit… it would have been easier for Ash to at least hit Ursaring once with Close Combat to cause more damage…. Anyways, poor bird with the Hammer Arm , it looked painful… bye Staraptor.

I don’t understand the whole Light Screen thing and why is protecting everyone. I like that Chimchar survived Stone Edge. That lil’ monkey has a lot of strength. LOL @ Jessie’s reaction when Ash recalled Chimchar.

Old weak Gliscor is back…. I’m annoyed. They need to get it together. Is it weak or is it strong?

Pikachu is done… meh! I don’t want to comment on this one anymore. I’m just glad Chimchar defeated Ursaring. It was epic, that monkey didn't let Ursaring do anything.

The evolution was obviously the best part but I feel Monferno was cheated of a win. I hate it got paralyzed. It was cheap and unfair for the monkey. What do you lose by making Paul lose one more pokemon? Nothing…………………. Give the new one a win!

So yeah… Ash’s biggest threat this saga is Paul and I guess this confirms Staraptor and Monferno are his only hopes to cause some damage to Paul’s team. I agree with Zard, Buizel and Grotle need to evolve or get some training and new moves because it’s looking sad for them. I don’t even know what to say about Gliscor… I mean you evolved completely and you still suck……….

[Ragnarofl]

lol at the fans acting like big babies to the writers because Ash got creamed.

Suck it up. Be grateful that Ash actually has a both strong fighter and smart strategist for a rival. One that really makes him frustrated with both his strength and his methods, and even triggers his evolutions- not a generic rival like Gary that makes him want to beat him solely for being a schoolyard jerk.

Losing so badly to Paul in a full battle will only mean more development for Ash. Remember Paul won due to using both brain and brawn. Ash is going to aim to match this up and surpass it, before reaching the League.

[Almighty Zard]

lol at the fans acting like big babies to the writers because Ash got creamed.

Can you really blame them, alot of people were expecting this battle to be more evenly matched, not a slaughterfest.

Be grateful that Ash actually has a both strong fighter and smart strategist for a rival. One that really makes him frustrated with both his strength and his methods, and even triggers his evolutions- not a generic rival like Gary that makes him want to beat him solely for being a schoolyard jerk.

I don't think Paul is the issue here, it's more about his pokemon than anything.

Losing so badly to Paul in a full battle will only mean more development for Ash.

Considering he only needs one more badge there isn't much time left for said development unless they plan on another gigantic filler fest between now and the league.

Not to mention it's highly unlikely all of his remaining pokemon that are capable of evolving sans Pikachu are going to evolve.

Remember Paul won due to using both brain and brawn.

and that's different from how Ash battles how?

You want brawn, then that's what the reserves are for, his current pokemon aren't strong enough to get the job done, that's what this battle pretty much showed, and unless they get a severe power boost between now and the league Ash is going to have to call in his reserves just to stand up to Paul.

[Bedouin Pirate]

Ash could beat Brandon. Paul couldn't beat Brandon. Therefore, wouldn't it seem that Ash should be able to beat Paul or at least lose by a far smaller margin? It just seems unrealistic to me. Can't the writers remember things like that?

To an extent I agree, however, as someone else said, when Ash faced Brandon he used some of his all-stars. The point at which I agree with you is with Pikachu. It defeated Regiice, and IIRC, by itself. At that moment Pikachu was easily at it's most powerful and one of the most powerful Pokemon portrayed in the anime.

I understand that the writer's can't have Pikachu being all powerful, like he should be, and sometimes is, as Ash would have no porblem getting to the league and wouldn't have to develop his other Pokemon as much. But I find it stupid that they keep the metaphorical level cap on the little guy for a battle like this. Pikachu should have been walking all over some of Paul's team.

6-2 is just daft, especially with my above points about Pikachu. I f the writer's wanted Ash to lose, it would have been far more appropriate for a 6-5, or even a 6-4.

I think there will be good things coming from this. Unless the writers decide to not let Ash get anywhere near the top 4 in the league, we're going to have to see some more evolutions. Personally I'd like to see Buizel evolve, not only because I like it and think it deserves to, but I really think Ash needs a water powerhouse. I also think that, with Ash consistantly losing again Paul with his Sinnoh team, if we may eventually see Ash pull out his all-stars for a proper all out battle (to Paul's surprise of course), in which Ash destroy's Paul, most likely post-league or in the BF/E4 saga following. Preferably I'd like to see Ash end it with a smug "so what was that about the way I train my Pokemon?!" but that would be out of character.

[pokeguru]

Maybe it's time ash used the Pokemon that battled in the past, like Charizard or Sceptile when he enters the Sinnoh League.

[mimefan]

Well, um... Seriously the title's misleading, seeing as it was a massacre more then a battle. But, Ursaring, that bear is epic, also why did Gliscor do nothing. I think unless Buizel evolves then Ash should use Kingler instead.

[Journeyman]

Well, um... Seriously the title's misleading, seeing as it was a massacre more then a battle. But, Ursaring, that bear is epic, also why did Gliscor do nothing. I think unless Buizel evolves then Ash should use Kingler instead.

Paul wised up and got rid of his Gliscor from his team. Now only if Ash could...
I'm mean, not to be mean but for strategic purposes.

[pokeguru]

I'm surprised that the writers still haven't come up with a major victory over Paul, but Ash might be overestimating himself. I'm guessing Paul's not as reckless as Silver in G/S/C.

[dman_dustin]

I actually think its hilarious that some of you think evolution is really going to make a difference. Except for possible new types (only Torterra) and new moves, what else does evolution offer?

It's not like evolution is really going to tip the tide in Ash's favor. Honestly stop thinking these are the games, enough is enough.

All Ash really needs is some training, and I'm talking about a counter for every known move Ash knows Paul has. Like Stone Edge, he needs a way to go faster, dodge at the last second, so the stone edge slams into the user (laughing at how Stone Edge is physical yet Torterra could control where it went, as well as apparently having 100% accuracy).

[Thriller]

Buizel getting smashed by Ursaring's Hammer Arm = Epic Win.

Otherwise, this episode was so awesome. The music that played through most of Moukuzaru's battle was brilliant, epic, fitting and will likely and unfortunately be removed when the dub gets to it.

I am convinced Moukuzaru will evolve all the way, with what I saw in this fight it wants to do anything it can to prove to Shinji how powerful it can be, and to do that, evolution is necessary.

[S.Suikun]

1700+ posts of hype between both parts of this battle's speculation and title reveal threads (the 5 posts or so that I contributed were totally irrelevant to the actual episodes). Now that Monferno is here, what are you people going to talk about in speculation threads? Don't answer that; I already know you're just going to blabber about Infernape for the next two years. Anyways, Monferno is a pretty cool guy, and I loved how he whipped a lash of wind in Paul's face. Heck, I even loved Electabuzz's reaction, seeing as how the two go way back. Great touch.

I'm not bothered by the 6-2 end result, as Ash had really put a number on Magmortar and especially Torterra, who were both hardly fit for any more fighting. The one thing that didn't make sense to me in anime logic is how Pikachu's burn magically vanished once it was called to the side, but reactivated only upon entering battle. I'd imagine Kojiro is quite pleased with the handling of Magmortar and his Samus-like abilities. Magmar was never this cool, regardless of what you Cinnabar Gym fans think you remember.

The overall battle was an improvement over Part 1, which less chatter and more head-busting. Monferno vs. Electabuzz was especially excellent. On the BGM and animation front, this episode rocked the house. I was very pleased to hear the RSE Victory Road theme (the last time I remember hearing that was the Jubilife convention). Also, more random stuff exploded in this episode than I could fathom, causing my brain to also explode in a flash of CG.

[Ragnarofl]

You want brawn, then that's what the reserves are for, his current pokemon aren't strong enough to get the job done

That's what training and getting his butt in gear is for. Calling reserves is a cop out, in this case.

[Almighty Zard]

I actually think its hilarious that some of you think evolution is really going to make a difference. Except for possible new types (only Torterra) and new moves, what else does evolution offer?

Increases in power and endurance which is what Ash obviously needs given how badly his team got beaten.

It's not like evolution is really going to tip the tide in Ash's favor.

As someone else said, it'll make the battle more believeable, the way his team is now if they were to beat Paul's after this slaughter fest it would be DEM to witness.

All Ash really needs is some training, and I'm talking about a counter for every known move Ash knows Paul has.

Now who's talking like a gamer? Besides Ash did use the counter shield tactic against Paul, isn't that good enough.

I doubt they'll have Ash train to counter EVERY one of Paul's moves, that's abit much considering how many attacks his pokemon seem to know.

Like Stone Edge, he needs a way to go faster, dodge at the last second, so the stone edge slams into the user

and yet Torterra resists the move so it wouldn't really be all that great of an idea.

This episode pretty much woke up the majority of the fandom and made them realises that Ash's sinnoh team isn't as hot as it appears to be, either they need to step up thier game severely (and yes evolutions will help massively) or he'll need his reserve pokemon to battle Paul at the league, because right now his current guys can't cut it.

[ShinyCharyZard]

Indeed, his current team is in dire need of training and evolution....because right now, they only way I see him beating Paul in the league is with Charizard, Sceptile and the powerhouse gang.

[dman_dustin]

Increases in power and endurance which is what Ash obviously needs given how badly his team got beaten.

So Monferno then did beat Electabuzz?

As someone else said, it'll make the battle more believeable, the way his team is now if they were to beat Paul's after this slaughter fest it would be DEM to witness.

The problem is so what? Just because you and a lot of other people think pre-evolved forms are incapable of beating evolved forms doesn't mean evolving would make it more believable. It just makes it unbearable boring, because it just says Ash has to rely on pure raw power over strategy. There is no strategy in evolution, especially evolutions that won't do anything like Buizel to Floatzel.

Now who's talking like a gamer? Besides Ash did use the counter shield tactic against Paul, isn't that good enough.

How? The only thing that had me sounding like a gamer was talking about stone edge, which I was mostly cruelly joking. Besides the counters I'm referring to are tactics that won't be in the game because of data limits, so how does anime-only tactics make me sound like a gamer.

I doubt they'll have Ash train to counter EVERY one of Paul's moves, that's abit much considering how many attacks his pokemon seem to know.

Most moves are similar in appearance that they use the same counter, even if it's something like the counter shield. Which worked superb but it going to work on moves like Night Slash. Besides not all of Ash's Pokemon can use the counter shield. Pikachu, Buizel, Monferno are the only ones who can use it because of their move set.

and yet Torterra resists the move so it wouldn't really be all that great of an idea.

What? Why does that matter? That's not what I mean.

Doing what I said with stone edge, gives Ash the edge of battle, if Chimchar was fast enough to dodge it and have stone edge hit Torterra it would be enough to distract Torterra (stone edge to the head has to hurt even if you're resistant) long enough for Chimchar to use flame wheel, flamethrower, etc. While it might not have knocked out Torterra, it would give Ash the edge, and then maybe Gliscor wouldn't have been knocked out as easily.

This episode pretty much woke up the majority of the fandom and made them realises that Ash's sinnoh team isn't as hot as it appears to be,

You actually think Paul's win was deserving as it was, and not full of inconsistencies and plot points? Staraptor should've knocked out Ursaring with its quick attack/aerial ace. But no Ursaring kept on trucking.

[Fofa]

lol at the fans acting like big babies to the writers because Ash got creamed.

Suck it up. Be grateful that Ash actually has a both strong fighter and smart strategist for a rival. One that really makes him frustrated with both his strength and his methods, and even triggers his evolutions- not a generic rival like Gary that makes him want to beat him solely for being a schoolyard jerk.

Losing so badly to Paul in a full battle will only mean more development for Ash. Remember Paul won due to using both brain and brawn. Ash is going to aim to match this up and surpass it, before reaching the League.

For one thing, you might like him, but a good number of us don't, and we have our reasons for being frustrated.

First, do you ever want to play games with a cheating, spoiled rotten kid who you have to let win? Paul seems like that to me right now, and the writers seem to be listening to his demands, and the fanbase really isn't helping because the majority it seems like him for the wrong reasons. Wouldn't it have hurt them to let Paul lose to Ash, and with the perfect opportunity after losing to Brandon?

Second, would you actually want to hang around someone like Paul in real life? A condensending jack*** who looks down on everyone, including those closest to him? It's really surprising that someone wants to associate with him, and furthermore, why hasn't Reggie done anything to discipline Paul? Even older siblings like him, as patient as they can be, have limits like any other person. And once their patience runs out, things can get pretty ugly.

And as much as I like character development, wouldn't it hurt the actual protagonist to have a satisying victory against this jerk? Or do you Ash to turn into the next Charlie Brown?

And what if Paul actually crosses the line, where a pokemon ends up DEAD because of his training and he lacks remorse for the whole thing? Even Reggie would end up giving a "What were you thinking?!" speech. I'm pretty sure several members of the audience would be put off from him.

Gah!

[Almighty Zard]

So Monferno then did beat Electabuzz?

I'm not suprised that happened given that happened every time one of Ash's pokemon evolved for the first time.

You actually think Paul's win was deserving as it was, and not full of inconsistencies and plot points? Staraptor should've knocked out Ursaring with its quick attack/aerial ace. But no Ursaring kept on trucking.

yes it was deserving and i don't see these "inconsistancies" that your talking about, they sound more like excuses because you don't want to admit the sinnoh team's not as strong as it was thought to be, but it's been proven, and Paul did win this battle like it or not, he earned it.

btw Dman, you say evolution wouldn't help? then look at Staraptor, it took a stone edge from Torterra, two blizzards and several metal claws from a swords danced Weavile, used Brave Bird and still had enough power to keep going and hit Ursuring in the face hard before dropping, yes monferno lost after evolving but like i said that happened to all the other guys in thier first non TR battles so why would monferno get special treatment.

Even so I'd say monferno, grotle and buizel need to evolve to get that kind of power and endurance if they wanna battle paul on an even level.

[dman_dustin]

The one thing that didn't make sense to me in anime logic is how Pikachu's burn magically vanished once it was called to the side, but reactivated only upon entering battle.

Sorry but no, Burn only takes effect when a Pokemon attacks, because notice how every time Pikachu attacked (well almost every time, there was one mistake) burn would activate. Why would Pikachu be burned for just standing around? Unlike poison, burn does not gradually hurt your Pokemon outside of battle.

[S.Suikun]

Sorry but no, Burn only takes effect when a Pokemon attacks, because notice how every time Pikachu attacked (well almost every time, there was one mistake) burn would activate. Why would Pikachu be burned for just standing around? Unlike poison, burn does not gradually hurt your Pokemon outside of battle.

Eh, I figured it was gradual like poisoning. Heck, I've been thinking that for 11 years now. Shows you how little I pay attention to game dynamics.

[dman_dustin]

yes it was deserving and i don't see these "inconsistancies" that your talking about, they sound more like excuses because you don't want to admit the sinnoh team's not as strong as it was thought to be, but it's been proven, and Paul did win this battle like it or not, he earned it.

So the reason why Pikachu and Monferno lost shouldn't be taken in account?

Pikachu was burned, lost to Ursaring because static increased Ursaring's attack due to guts.

And Electabuzz's thunder just so happens to paralyze Monferno because its convenient?

Oh right, duh, thunder causes automatic paralysis, I'm sorry <.<

[pokeguru]

If I were Ash, I would just review Paul's battle pattern instead of being such a reckless bonehead...