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Thread: What Specific Filler Episodes Would've Eliminated From The Johto Saga...

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    Default What Specific Filler Episodes Would've Eliminated From The Johto Saga...

    ...in order to make it a saga of the show that the fanbase would actually love & respect, and also be on the same league in terms of quality as the Hoenn & Sinnoh sagas?

    Personally after looking from the episode list myself on the main page I would've honestly eliminated very little filler episodes from the saga (prepares to be flamed).

    I know that sounds strange, and I DO agree with the majority that the Johto saga was an extremely long, dull, dragged out saga of the series, but honestly after looking through the list some filler episodes seemed absolutely necessary in order to either advance the plot or introduce a 2nd generation pokemon.

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    I want to say ''Hasle in the castle'' but because of Brock's zubat evolving it was a filler :/ so I'd have to say I would like to have gotten rid of ''Ariados Amigos''
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    There were many things wrong with Johto that made it poorer in quality then the other series. Eliminating a bunch of the episodes would have made it shorter but wouldn't have completely fixed this. Rather then make the series shorter they should have utilized the allotment of episodes they did have to better cover the characters and Pokemon involved.

    I guess I'll do a little, though:

    - Flower Power. Bellosom was also featured in Whichever Way the Wind Blows so keeping them both isn't necessary.

    - I think we could have done without the Snubbull subplot, so anything after Snubull Snobbery. Tunnel Vision is one of the episodes that would've been cut completely under that. Trouble with Snubbull, its sendoff episode, would also get the axe.

    - Air Time. I remember this episode beside it had an interesting structure. Beyond that nothing important happened. It's one of those episodes that could've happened at any given time in the series.

    - Fossil Fools. It's the third or fourth episode about the Kanto Fossil Pokemon at this point and ends about the same way. We know that there's wild Fossil Pokemon. We don't really need to be reminded of it every couple of hundred episodes.

    - A Hot Water Battle. Another Separation Episode. We get a better one overall in early Hoenn and had a better one a few episodes before this one (Forest Grumps).

    - Carrying On. Pidgey who is not a Johto Pokemon and shouldn't even be featured gets a better episode later in the season (Fly Me to The Moon) so this one gets cut.

    - The Light Fantastic. An example of an episode in which Ash and Company walk in on a potentially interesting situation only to become spectators to The Character of the Day solving the problem without their help. According to the on-site summary the CoTD told Ash to standby because the caught Remoraid could take care of the problem themselves. Alrighty then.

    - Spring Fever. We get an episode exactly like this one in Sinnoh. Here it seems to only be here to give Todd more face time. I'm all in the business of reducing the amount of face time this character gets by one so I cut the thinly veiled filler episode in his arch.

    - The Big Balloon Blow-Up. There's a ton of Pokemon competitions in Johto which is part of the reason why I liked it so much. If I had to cut one of them it'd be this one.

    - I was originally going to cut at least one episode from the Whirl Cup Arch but decided it was fine. Even the episode that blatantly stuck out as Filler (Plant it Now ... Diglett Later) was a good one.

    - A lot of people pin Xatu of the Future as a worthless episode. I actually don't remember it well enough to judge for or against it and don't feel like reading the summary right now. Same with " Wings and Things ". There was one more that's constantly pinned. I think it was " Mountain Time ".

    - A Crowning Achievement. One of my picks for the worst episode in the series. Similar to " The Light Fantastic " this is an episode where Ash and Company simply watch the Character of the Day solve the problem herself with minimal interaction.

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    Carrying on
    Whichever way the Wind Blows
    Foul Weather Friends
    The Art of Pokemon


    The worst Johto fillers were in the middle, more or less. The eps between Whitney and Jasmine was the weakest stretch of Johto, with only a couple of gems in the middle.

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    The one with Sunflora, the Pidgey that wants to go to space, Whichever Way the Wind Blows, Xatu of the The Future, The Light Fantastic, Hot Water Battle, and a few others which are just a chore to sit through unless you absolutely love every single aspect of the 4Kids dub.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sayho1234 View Post
    ...in order to make it a saga of the show that the fanbase would actually love & respect, and also be on the same league in terms of quality as the Hoenn & Sinnoh sagas?
    For me the massive amount of fillers isn't the only problem I've had with Johto, and many of the canon episodes weren't that special to me. (Then there's the whole GS ball thing.) Also, just because episodes introduced a Pokemon doesn't mean the plot for the episode couldn't be more interesting.
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    There were some fillers that I would've like to take out. I can't remember the title of the episode but the episode consisted of a mail service that primarily used Pidgey. It was an interesting concept to include but it came out really dull to watch.

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    Actually, I watched Johto recently and some of the filler episodes were among the more memorable in that season. Many of the gym battles were lackluster.
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    I've been re-watching Johto Journies and I find that I wouldn't eliminate many episodes at all. I enjoyed all of the eps, every ep had something to contribute even if it was to showcase a new Pokemon or just a plain comedy ep. I enjoyed just about every ep of Johto. I think the only filler that needs to be removed are ones which occur in the overall anime and those are the 500 fillers having to do with Slowpoke or Donphan.
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    almost every epsiode of season 4 was completely useless, remove all the episodes from there except:

    the 2 episodes vs Whitney
    Zubat's Evolution
    Golbat's Evolution
    Chikorita's Evolution
    the 2 episodes featuring Morty
    The episode vs Chuck
    the episode introducing jasmine
    the 3 parter featuring Todd and articuno

    can't remember if season3 or 4 was the oen where we find out gary has Umbreon.

    so there you have it 12/13 outta 52 episodes, thats 39/40 random COTD episodes -_-, way too many.
    Last edited by Morcombe; 7th July 2009 at 6:49 AM.

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    -Hassle in the castle
    -The Articuno fillers
    -The Art of Pokemon

    And some other season 4 stuff I cannot name.

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    It's not so much that I would have eliminated said fillers as I would have rewritten them. After all, at least half of these fillers in question were introductions to previously-unseen Johto Pokemon. But cool Pokemon like Xatu and Ledian and Quagsire deserved far better than the episodes they got (and those Pokemon and many more haven't really haven't gotten better treatment since).

    Heck, even many of the important episodes of Johto could have used some re-scripting. Olivine was awful, for example.

    (Okay fine, even rewriting the carrier Pidgey episode couldn't save it from being my least favorite episode ever.)
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    A lot of episodes in Sinnoh are also a filler, but just because a 20 seconds in the episode- they are turning to be not a filler.
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    Flower Power
    Snubbull Snobbery
    The Whistle Stop
    For Crying Out Loud (especially this episode!)
    Carrying On!
    Mountain Time
    The Light Fantastic
    Ring Masters
    The Art Of Pokémon
    The Screen Actor's Guilt
    Plant It Now... Diglett Later
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
    Some Like it Hot
    Enlighten Up! (another horrid episode)

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoennMaster View Post
    Flower Power
    Snubbull Snobbery
    The Whistle Stop
    For Crying Out Loud (especially this episode!)
    Carrying On!
    Mountain Time
    The Light Fantastic
    Ring Masters
    The Art Of Pokémon
    The Screen Actor's Guilt
    Plant It Now... Diglett Later
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
    Some Like it Hot
    Enlighten Up! (another horrid episode)
    I thought For Crying Out Loud had a lot of character development for Misty and it was a humorous episode as well. Although they could have replaced Marrill with another Johto Pokemon that we hadn't already seen before in an entire arc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoennMaster View Post
    Flower Power
    Snubbull Snobbery
    The Whistle Stop
    For Crying Out Loud (especially this episode!)
    Carrying On!
    Mountain Time
    The Light Fantastic
    Ring Masters
    The Art Of Pokémon
    The Screen Actor's Guilt
    Plant It Now... Diglett Later
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble
    Some Like it Hot
    Enlighten Up! (another horrid episode)
    Flower Power - Was necessary in order to debut Bellossom
    Snubbull Snobbery - Was necessary in order to debut Snubbull
    The Whistle Stop - Was necessary in order to debut Ledyba
    For Crying Out Loud - Misty character development episode
    Carrying On! - Agreed! Unnecessary episode
    Mountain Time - Was necessary in order to debut Ledian
    The Light Fantastic - Was necessary in order to debut Remoraid
    Ring Masters - Was necessary for the Misty's Poliwag evolution subplot in the Johto saga since Ash had won the King's Rock in this episode
    The Art Of Pokémon - Was necessary in order to debut Smeargle
    The Screen Actor's Guilt - Was necessary in order to debut Smoochum
    Plant It Now... Diglett Later - Agreed! Unnecessary episode (even if it was a really good filler episode & was made during the time in Johto where the writers were really getting their writing back on track)
    A Tyrogue Full of Trouble - Was necessary in order to debut Tyrogue
    Some Like it Hot - Misty character development episode
    Enlighten Up! - Agreed! Unnecessary episode

    You see what I mean though. Even though we all constantly bash the Johto saga because it's known for it's never-ending, "useless", mundane fillers when you get right down to it some (if not all) of them really were necessary.
    Last edited by Sayho1234; 7th July 2009 at 12:44 PM.

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    oh god, was that Buddhist temple with the Yadon really necessary? How many times could they even showcase the thing in one saga? I'll give them the well that was from the games and Yadoking's proper series debut, but that was just unneeded.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    Carrying on
    Whichever way the Wind Blows
    Foul Weather Friends
    The Art of Pokemon


    The worst Johto fillers were in the middle, more or less. The eps between Whitney and Jasmine was the weakest stretch of Johto, with only a couple of gems in the middle.
    bah... about 500 episodes later, we still have yet to even see how Sketch would work in a more realistic setting (and this, in turn, makes Doble out to be a completely worthless Pokemon in terms of battle potential; if all it does is paint, it's no better off than Metamon in the Mystery Dungeon games, and in a medium where we've seen Caterpie kicking ass, that's pretty sad). I agree with S. Suikun's logic of rewriting the episodes, and this one in particular really could've stood to feature the would-be interesting showcase Pokemon in a battle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoennMaster View Post
    Ring Masters
    You would eliminate "Ring Masters?" Are you serious?

    The episode was not only Snorlax's first use in an official battle, but the wrestling competition with Snorlax Vs. Feraligatr was excellent.

    Ash also wins the Kings Rock in this episode which later Misty's Poliwhirl uses to evolve.

    "Ring Masters" was a great episode. They should do another sumo tournament like that again.

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    All of it.

    Johto had the absolute worst fillers due to the most poor writing I've ever seen for characters of the week, along with their no-personality Pokemon.
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    Why is everyone only picking apart my list?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sayho1234 View Post
    You see what I mean though. Even though we all constantly bash the Johto saga because it's known for it's never-ending, "useless", mundane fillers when you get right down to it some (if not all) of them really were necessary.
    No, fillers are not necessary. 2 pokémon can be introduced in one episode, they don't all need their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    "Ring Masters" was a great episode. They should do another sumo tournament like that again.
    Too me it was a half hour snooze fest.

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    I have to agree with that, too much time spent making those boring matches serious or tactical, I think only the one against Golem actually explained anything about the sumo fighting style and its benefits, Ash cheap-KO'd his way to the top and really learned no lessons on better using Snorlax. I'm not sure if the 'referee' was parodying the sumo chant, or if that was honest acting, but I couldn't stand those horrible shrills at the start of every match.

    As a Feraligatr enthusiast, I felt this was not how they should have presented Feraligatr at all. First of all, Feraligatr is not the sumo type just because of stumpy legs and a low center of gravity. Second, its great body from sprites/drawing to anime gets mutilated. Feraligatr's forearms are for some reason bloated compared to the upper arm, giving that repulsive Popeye syndrome. It's about a foot shorter than it should be, and it's missing that nice slack jaw look all animated lizardmen get, replaced with that silly gaping bird-face . Finally, Feraligatr can't contort his face to get a constipated sumo look, and staring at you with that demented joy kills all seriousness they were putting on it.

    Sorry to take Snorlax's precious filler from him, but this whole affair should have waited until Advanced/Frontier and be done with Hariyama. Greta's Yama did pretty good, but there was about zero sumo elements to that fight.
    Last edited by Genome; 8th July 2009 at 8:06 AM.


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    Apparently a good sumo Pokemon battle filler was too much for people where it was right in the middle of eps where Ash just helped trainers with a problem.

    Ring Masters was one of Johto's best unique concepts, its a shame that some people don't appreciate GOOD episodes for a change.

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    The whirl island cup enough said..


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    Quote Originally Posted by tyranitar305 View Post
    The whirl island cup enough said..
    The Whirl Cup itself was good, but I do agree the Whirl Island fillers were pretty dull.

    Whirl Cup gets props because its the last time Ash uses Kingler in a battle, and Misty actually got to do something for once.

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    I thought the whirl cup was great. It was nice to see Misty have a more active role (and overall she still did more than brock :P ) as well as see more water pokemon, my favourite type.

    I hated certain fillers such as "a hot water battle" and that teddiursa one. Most of the gyms were pretty good in my opinion. I didn't care much for the whole Larvitar/Mt. Silver arc though.
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