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Thread: Team Iron Fist (OU Hyper Offence)

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    Default Team Iron Fist (OU Hyper Offence)

    Team Iron Fist


    Thanks for viewing.

    So for the past month I have been tutored by ReyScarface from Smogon and have been learning the art of Hyper Offence, which Sthatakis was the great pioneer of, this team got me a rating of 1600+ on TU's shoddy server and and rating of 1500+ on Smogon's server, which is my best team record.

    Sthatakis's words: First, to understand this team, you must understand how I play. Basically, to play offense, all you have to do is get in a sweeper, set up, do as much damage as possible, sacrifice said sweeper, get in the next one, etc etc. By using stuff that is walled by the same things, you sacrifice one guy to weaken the counter (a bulky water/ground in the case of this team) and then the rest of the team has a party. there is a lot of longterm thinking involved, because you have to sacrifice the right stuff and find openings to sweep and stuff. with this team, you don't have to predict, but you have to be thinking about the lategame from turn one, keeping the right stuff alive, sacrificing the right stuff, etc. otherwise, you'll find yourself unable to break through the opponent. It is also imperative, that, to not get swept, you have to not let anything be able to set up anywhere. if you want to effectively beat stall, scarfers are a huge no-no, therefore you can't revenge kill. since you can't revenge kill, the only way to not get swept is to not let anything set up on you. it follows that choice items in general are a no-no, due to the amount of free turns you give. It is also not good to switch, as by switching, you take two attacks, or worse, give your opponent a fee turn to set up. by doing your own thing and not switching out and giving your opponent free turns, you are never on the defensive, the pressure is always on the opponent, and you don't have to predict. It also follows that since we don't want to predict, explosion is a no-no as well, because it causes blind switches, which are even more guess-like than predictions. By doing all this, you play without having to predict. as long as your long-term thinking is solid and your team is good, you can win, no guessing necessary. this is the better way to play offense, the more reliable way.


    In-depth look



    Azelf@ Light Clay
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP | 4 Attack | 252 Speed
    Nature: Jolly (+speed, - Special Attack)

    ` Reflect
    ` Light Screen
    ` Stealth Rock
    ` Explosion |Taunt

    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:

    ]So I start the match with suicide azelf. Here's the reasoning. I use Azelf's Speed and to help win out against many common leads. I get up SR and screens early, and I sacrifice azelf, giving me a free switch in to whatever kills it, generally giving me a free turn to set up and sweep or sacrifice or whatever. Generally I don't set up SR right away, but set up screens then set-up SR. This set is a standard for a reason. This sets the tempo for my team, setting up stealth rocks blazingly fast. I don’t use taunt as explosion is more important to me and the threat of Taunt is usually good enough If azelf gets SR and scouts a little, he's done his job. Besides, worst comes to worst, if I don't get a kill with explosion, I still get the free turn from bringing in whoever I want. Azelf has failed me maybe once or twice to get a good start in the match, despite how prepared people are for him.





    Kingdra@ Lum Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 6 HP | 252 Attack | 252 Speed
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack,-Special Attack)

    ` Substrate
    ` Dragon Dance
    ` Waterfall
    ` Outrage


    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Kingdra is normally the next poke I bring out after Azelf has set up his screens, with Screens up I normally get two early Dragon Dances which help me weaken my opponents physical walls with Kingdra's great offensive coverage only resisted by Empoleon and Shednija in OU. I'm using both Substitute and Lum Berry as I hate relaying on confusion hax.


    Salamence@ Life Orb
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 Attack | 252 Speed
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack, -Special Attack)

    ` Dragon Dance
    ` Outrage
    `Stone Egde
    ` Earthauzke

    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Dragon dance Salamence is a beast in the platinum metagame with one DD under its belt it can destroy weakened teams. the basics are simple come in on something that is scared of Salamence, Dragon Dance, then cause as much pain as possible. QuakeEgde gives nice coverage and outrage is just a pure power attack that hit anything that doesn't resist it hard.



    Lucario@ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 4 HP
    | 252 Attack | 252 Speed
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack, -Special Attack)

    ` Swords Dance
    ` Close Combat
    ` Crunch/Stone Egde
    ` Extremespeed

    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Swords Dance to boost up your Attack, making you that much more of a pain in the ***. Crunch is there to hit Ghosts but Stone Egde will cover Salamence, Zapdos, as well as Gyarados since my other attacks can't do that to reliably. Close Combat is there for STAB and just to hit random pokemon hard, even if they resist it they're still taking a lot of damage from it. Extremespeed is there to hit the Pokemon that are faster than me, so I can have an easier time accomplishing a sweep.



    Suicune @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 Attack | 252 Speed
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack, -Special Attack)

    ` Swords Dance
    ` Bullet Punch
    ` Brick Brake
    ` Quick Attack
    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:
    Basic Dual Priority Scizor, I choose this over the basic Life orb Swords Dance Scizor as a SD Quick attack does do quite alot of damage to Gyarados thinking he will get a free Dragon Dance, a +2 Quick attack also has a chance of OHKO infernape with SR on the field. Scizor doubles up as a revenge killer that can easily break stall with Swords dance and Bullet Punch.

    I still do think that scizor is the weak link of this team allowing gyarados and zapdos onto the field which can do a number on my team.




    Metagross@ Life Orb
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 252 Attack
    | 4 Defense | 252 Speed
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack, -Special Attack)

    `Agility
    ` Meteor Mash
    ` Thunderpunch
    ` Earthquake

    .......................
    Comments & Suggestions:

    Agiligross. Most people aren’t usually prepared for this guy, as leadgross is much more prevalent. As they send their Zapdos, Heatran, Fire Poke, Vaporeon, Suicune, any other bulky water, etc, I MMash or EQ the switchin. This guy sometimes gets early sweeps, but that usually doesn’t happen. He does however play an essential part in breaking down these physical walls. He often clears up holes for everyone, especially Gyarados. Clear Body is an awesome ability, allowing him to negate Intimidate from the likes of Gyarados and Salamence, who would cut his sweep short with Intimidate. Meteor Mash off this guy is ridiculously powerful, easily OHKOing stuff like Flygon, Azelf, etc. The attack boost that I get occasionarily almost guarantees a gg from the opponent. I also use this guy to absorb Outrages and set on Salamence using agility, then smashing him with a nice steel fist. I prefer Life Orb over all the other items as it really gives that extra kick that is required. All in all, this guy has definitely earned his place in this team.


    Credit for most of the art work goes to Blue Ace




    Last edited by Alcatraz; 12th July 2009 at 11:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    If you're going to play all offense, a Special Atk or Special Sweeper is needed.
    I suggest removing your Metagross or Lucario for something like a Jirachi if you still want a stell type or a Magnezone or a scarfed Porygon Z, but they are all weak to Fighting type moves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucazard View Post
    If you're going to play all offense, a Special Atk or Special Sweeper is needed.
    I suggest removing your Metagross or Lucario for something like a Jirachi if you still want a stell type or a Magnezone or a scarfed Porygon Z, but they are all weak to Fighting type moves.
    If you read the OP you will understand how this type of team works, why would I need a special sweeper if I can take down Physical walls with physical sweepers xD.

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    The only thing i have to question is the purpose of Kingdra's ability.
    In this particular instance as you neither have Rain Dance support or set-up, it seems it would be more effective to utilize Sniper, particularly considering it's role on the team, non?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrk View Post
    The only thing i have to question is the purpose of Kingdra's ability.
    In this particular instance as you neither have Rain Dance support or set-up, it seems it would be more effective to utilize Sniper, particularly considering it's role on the team, non?
    No, Swift swim helps me take down rain dance teams, that can be a big problem.

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    This team looks amazing. Here is the one and only thing I might choose to switch up on the set though...

    Kingdra@ Lum Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 6 HP | 252 Attack | 252 Speed
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack,-Special Attack)

    ` Substrate
    ` Dragon Dance
    ` Waterfall
    ` Outrage / Toxic

    The reason I would leave out Outrage is twofold. First, you lready get STAB from Waterfall. Plus, the only two real threats to this guy are Empoleon and Shdinja, both of which you would most likely switch out on. With Toxic, you can take out Shed.

    I understand that Outrage covers everything that Waterfall can't, but the rest of your set seems pleanty solid enugh to fill that roll for you anyways.



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    Quote Originally Posted by jeyre80 View Post
    This team looks amazing. Here is the one and only thing I might choose to switch up on the set though...

    Kingdra@ Lum Berry
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 6 HP | 252 Attack | 252 Speed
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack,-Special Attack)

    ` Substrate
    ` Dragon Dance
    ` Waterfall
    ` Outrage / Toxic

    The reason I would leave out Outrage is twofold. First, you lready get STAB from Waterfall. Plus, the only two real threats to this guy are Empoleon and Shdinja, both of which you would most likely switch out on. With Toxic, you can take out Shed.

    I understand that Outrage covers everything that Waterfall can't, but the rest of your set seems pleanty solid enugh to fill that roll for you anyways.
    Cheers, Toxic seems a bit redundant TBH sheddy is taken out by SR (I know most sheddy team carry a spinner xD) but having toxic for one poke seems a bit werid xD.

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    Alright I understand your team now but if your Salamence is dead late-game, a Choice Scarfed Heatran can destroy most of you're team.
    Last edited by Lucazard; 11th July 2009 at 3:37 PM.

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    This sort of idea is great except for one thing, what if something switches into one of your pokemon, walls it completely and sets up on the turn you do tiny damage to it or switch out, for example gyarados switches into Crunch using Lucario, sets up DD on the switch or as you crunch, then it gets a free attack and can possibly sweep.
    Gyarados is just an example, there are others.
    Also doesn't Azelf learn momento? if so put that in the last slot as it forces the opponent to switch out thus giving you a free turn to set up. Plus unlike explosion you won't have to switch blindly in.
    I'd put "Sig under construction".
    But i'd probably get banned, again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OMN's_SkyNet18 View Post
    Cheers, Toxic seems a bit redundant TBH sheddy is taken out by SR (I know most sheddy team carry a spinner xD) but having toxic for one poke seems a bit werid xD.
    It might very well seem weird, but outside of Metagross, I still think you are going to be a little weak against bulky water types. Toxic could help in late game. People wouldn't suspect it.

    ALSO, about the Azelf. (Forgot to mention this). To setup with either Kingdra or Metagross, I do agree with the Dual Screens, but I doubt it will survive to use the second Screen with a Light Clay hold item. You should probably either sacrafice the three turn bonus from Light Clay, and give Azelf a Sash, OR, take out Azelf, and use a Sturdier Dual Screener holding Light Clay. Maybe Uxie for ths roll. He can also set up your SR. All you loose is the Explosion that you probably won't survive to use anyways.
    Last edited by James Bondage; 11th July 2009 at 3:49 PM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Gren Draco View Post
    This sort of idea is great except for one thing, what if something switches into one of your pokemon, walls it completely and sets up on the turn you do tiny damage to it or switch out, for example gyarados switches into Crunch using Lucario, sets up DD on the switch or as you crunch, then it gets a free attack and can possibly sweep.
    Gyarados is just an example, there are others.
    Also doesn't Azelf learn momento? if so put that in the last slot as it forces the opponent to switch out thus giving you a free turn to set up. Plus unlike explosion you won't have to switch blindly in.
    Thats why when using this type of team I don't switch, an example is Luc sets up a SD, gyara swicthes into a crunch does ~30, gyara DDs, Luc ES does ~30, Luc ES ~30 with SR gyara is KOed.

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    Keep Explosion on Azelf, if you ever get taunter by Leadbat or Aerodactly, you can at least blow up if the situtation requires it.

    Mence would highly prefer Fire Blast over Stone Ege mainly because it gets great coverage and can 2hko Skarms.

    Fairly good team, though maybe you could make Salamence Mixmence to break stall even easier, as more and more stall teams prepare for the very common scizor, though with Lucario stall would seem easy to break.

    Try Ice Punch on Luke, so you can still hit all the fliers, but also can hit Gliscor hard, one of Luke's best counters. If Gliscor doesn't have speed ev's he's screwed/


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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHeart View Post
    Keep Explosion on Azelf, if you ever get taunter by Leadbat or Aerodactly, you can at least blow up if the situtation requires it.

    Mence would highly prefer Fire Blast over Stone Ege mainly because it gets great coverage and can 2hko Skarms.

    Fairly good team, though maybe you could make Salamence Mixmence to break stall even easier, as more and more stall teams prepare for the very common scizor, though with Lucario stall would seem easy to break.

    Try Ice Punch on Luke, so you can still hit all the fliers, but also can hit Gliscor hard, one of Luke's best counters. If Gliscor doesn't have speed ev's he's screwed/
    With lead Areo I always switch to scizor as there 99.9% they are going to taunt it.

    I've testes MixMence but if lacks raw power and things can set up on the DM SpAtk drop.

    All Glicsors run EVs to out speed Luc so Ice punch seems iffy.

    TBH Skarmory hasn't caused me too much problems Gross 2HKOs with LO T-Punch.

    Cheers for the rate ^_^

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    Eh, the problem is that the only reason Aero is used is to block Stealth Rock. When you switch into your Scizor, Gyara, a pokemon who is weak to Stealth Rock, and benefits from Aero, can easily switch in, and Intimadate drops your Attack down, so that if you BP on the switch then your in trouble, as you'll either have to SD or Quick Attack while he DD's. Then with +1, the moveset Waterfall, EQ, Stone Edge/Ice Fang can sweep your team. The only way you can beat it is if you do two quick attacks, let it take some LO damage, and then Xtremespeed with Luke, which still means it can do some serious damage. Consider giving someone a scarf, as since this team is "Hyper Offense" (No walls whatsoever) you need to have a dedicated revenge killer. I personally like Scarftais or Scarfgar, but whatever floats your boat.


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    Quote Originally Posted by OMN's_SkyNet18 View Post
    Thats why when using this type of team I don't switch, an example is Luc sets up a SD, gyara swicthes into a crunch does ~30, gyara DDs, Luc ES does ~30, Luc ES ~30 with SR gyara is KOed.
    how would you be able to set up SD and get in a crunch on one turn? it would go:

    opponent switches in Gyarados
    Lucario uses Swords Dance
    ~
    Lucario used Crunch
    Gyarados used Dragon Dance
    ~
    Lucario used Extremespeed
    Gyarados used Earthquake
    Lucario Fainted

    Then you have a +1Atk and +1spe gyara to take on, none of which your team can deal with very well.

    Also you lack a ghost so SR won't be around for too long with the abundance of starmie's in todays metagame.

    Memento Uxie>Azelf as a starter since it can actually set up screens and SR without dying to the first attack.
    I'd put "Sig under construction".
    But i'd probably get banned, again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHeart View Post
    Eh, the problem is that the only reason Aero is used is to block Stealth Rock. When you switch into your Scizor, Gyara, a pokemon who is weak to Stealth Rock, and benefits from Aero, can easily switch in, and Intimadate drops your Attack down, so that if you BP on the switch then your in trouble, as you'll either have to SD or Quick Attack while he DD's. Then with +1, the moveset Waterfall, EQ, Stone Edge/Ice Fang can sweep your team. The only way you can beat it is if you do two quick attacks, let it take some LO damage, and then Xtremespeed with Luke, which still means it can do some serious damage. Consider giving someone a scarf, as since this team is "Hyper Offense" (No walls whatsoever) you need to have a dedicated revenge killer. I personally like Scarftais or Scarfgar, but whatever floats your boat.
    Uhhhh......Having a choicer would only make openings for pokes like Agility gross to set up and rape, choicers are a big No-No.

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    Well, then tell me. Who will you use to defeat a +1 Gyara? That's right, nobody. Who told you choice pokemon are that bad? Choice pokemon are the only reason people can even use hyper-offensive teams, as the minute you mispredict and waste a turn, that's one turn Gyarados can set up and sweep. That's one turn where Gengar can get within a substiute, and wreck havoc. That's one turn where Azelf/Infernape can Nasty Plot and set up a huge sweep. See what I mean? A Choice pokemon can act as a buffer, just in case you mispredict. You're opening is somwhat incorrect. Defensive and Stall teams take very little to no prediction, while offensive teams need all the prediction they can get. In stall, if you overpredict, it's okay, your entire team can nearly wall every OU offensive threat. One mispredict in Offensive, and it just might be over. Think about it. :/


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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHeart View Post
    Well, then tell me. Who will you use to defeat a +1 Gyara? That's right, nobody. Who told you choice pokemon are that bad? Choice pokemon are the only reason people can even use hyper-offensive teams, as the minute you mispredict and waste a turn, that's one turn Gyarados can set up and sweep. That's one turn where Gengar can get within a substiute, and wreck havoc. That's one turn where Azelf/Infernape can Nasty Plot and set up a huge sweep. See what I mean? A Choice pokemon can act as a buffer, just in case you mispredict. You're opening is somwhat incorrect. Defensive and Stall teams take very little to no prediction, while offensive teams need all the prediction they can get. In stall, if you overpredict, it's okay, your entire team can nearly wall every OU offensive threat. One mispredict in Offensive, and it just might be over. Think about it. :/
    Yes Gyara is a little problem but it played around, it normally comes in early game when kingdra DDs, a +1 outrage 2HKOs gyara.

    You don't need to predict with a team like this as 5 of my pokes can sweep whole teams if the conditions are right and you scarifice the right poke at the right time to keep the pressure on the opponent.

    What can ape set up on without taking heavy damage....nothing xD

    Choicer are set-up bait, for example CB Scizor locked into BP allows my Gross to agility up and try to sweeps, CB Ttar locked into Puirsuit allows my Luc to get a SD up, scarfed tranny locked into Overheat allows my Kingdra to DD up....see my point.

    I know you have no experience with this play style and it shows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OMN's_SkyNet18 View Post
    scarfed tranny
    *giggles*

    actually kingdra won't be +1 due to intimidate.
    So if Kingdra DD's Gyara kills before kingdra kills it, i think.

    not to mention you're then locked on outrage so steels can come in and set up, i guess you didn't take outrage into consideration when you had the whole "no moves that let the opponent set up" thing going on.
    I'd put "Sig under construction".
    But i'd probably get banned, again.

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    Choicer are set-up bait, for example CB Scizor locked into BP allows my Gross to agility up and try to sweeps, CB Ttar locked into Puirsuit allows my Luc to get a SD up, scarfed tranny locked into Overheat allows my Kingdra to DD up....see my point.
    That doesn't make them bad. Really, that argument is flawed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reno View Post
    That doesn't make them bad. Really, that argument is flawed.
    I didn't say there bad, just they don't fit this team.

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    a good special sweeper would be specsmence:

    Salamence@Choice Specs
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Modest
    4 HP, 252 spattk, 252 spd.
    Moveset:
    Draco Meteor
    Overheat/Fire Blast
    Hydro Pump
    Ominous Wind/Dragon Pulse

    Draco Meteor provides a strong hit whereas Dragon pulse provides a lategame hit. Overheat or Fire blast provides big damage that skarmory and bronzing won't take too kindly, Hydro pump finishes off most of the rest. Ominous wind you can choose to hit ghosts and psychic walls with...It's speed allows it to outrun gyara and 2HKO with Draco Meteor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gren Draco View Post
    *giggles*

    actually kingdra won't be +1 due to intimidate.
    So if Kingdra DD's Gyara kills before kingdra kills it, i think.

    not to mention you're then locked on outrage so steels can come in and set up, i guess you didn't take outrage into consideration when you had the whole "no moves that let the opponent set up" thing going on.
    I ment to say +1 -1, anyway thats why to scout for steels first xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by OMN's_SkyNet18 View Post
    Yes Gyara is a little problem but it played around, it normally comes in early game when kingdra DDs, a +1 outrage 2HKOs gyara.

    You don't need to predict with a team like this as 5 of my pokes can sweep whole teams if the conditions are right and you scarifice the right poke at the right time to keep the pressure on the opponent.

    What can ape set up on without taking heavy damage....nothing xD

    Choicer are set-up bait, for example CB Scizor locked into BP allows my Gross to agility up and try to sweeps, CB Ttar locked into Puirsuit allows my Luc to get a SD up, scarfed tranny locked into Overheat allows my Kingdra to DD up....see my point.

    I know you have no experience with this play style and it shows.
    ?.?, that's not very nice.

    I do play more with balanced teams, but think about it like this. If they have specstran locked in Overheat, you use Dragon Dance, they would switch to Scarflatias, which uses Draco Metor, you switch to Gross, use Agility while they switch to Bronzong., then while you switch to almost anyone , Bronzong uses Trick and tricks off a macho brace. (I know you wouldn't switch Scizor in), whatever you switch out to, or if you keep metagross, they're crippled. See, with 2 choiced pokemon and a bronzong, we have managed to cripple one of your sweepers, and all you have accomplished is get off some SR damage, and we did that too.

    If you have 5 sweepers that are ready to sweep, then that means you have no defense. With no defense, one mispredict means your nearly screwed. Choice pokemon give you effective revenge killers that can help ease prediciton. They may be a little risky, but if you have even a small amount of support it's fine. I see a status problem aswell, as if anyone is burned and if anyone is paralyzed except scizor, that pokemon has become effectively neutered. Please consider using a scarfer, it'll allow you to defeat +1 pokemon if you don't want to run any defensive pokes. If it bothers you that much, run Trick, as if you know the opponent will switch to say, Bliss, and you have pretty much shut it down.

    Also, you are right, NP Mixape cannot really set up without status support. However, Mixape, if Kingdra is below 50% (which it should be, considering you have subsitute and start a sweep) Then a normal Mixape with HP Ice or even just a Special Ape ((which is rare so eh) with HP Ice, Flamethrower, and Grass Knot does massive damage to the team.
    Last edited by BlackHeart; 11th July 2009 at 7:24 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHeart View Post
    ?.?, that's not very nice.

    I do play more with balanced teams, but think about it like this. If they have specstran locked in Overheat, you use Dragon Dance, they would switch to Scarflatias, which uses Draco Metor, you switch to Gross, use Agility while they switch to Bronzong., then while you switch to almost anyone , Bronzong uses Trick and tricks off a macho brace. (I know you wouldn't switch Scizor in), whatever you switch out to, or if you keep metagross, they're crippled. See, with 2 choiced pokemon and a bronzong, we have managed to cripple one of your sweepers, and all you have accomplished is get off some SR damage, and we did that too.

    If you have 5 sweepers that are ready to sweep, then that means you have no defense. With no defense, one mispredict means your nearly screwed. Choice pokemon give you effective revenge killers that can help ease prediciton. They may be a little risky, but if you have even a small amount of support it's fine. I see a status problem aswell, as if anyone is burned and if anyone is paralyzed except scizor, that pokemon has become effectively neutered. Please consider using a scarfer, it'll allow you to defeat +1 pokemon if you don't want to run any defensive pokes. If it bothers you that much, run Trick, as if you know the opponent will switch to say, Bliss, and you have pretty much shut it down.

    Also, you are right, NP Mixape cannot really set up without status support. However, Mixape, if Kingdra is below 50% (which it should be, considering you have subsitute and start a sweep) Then a normal Mixape with HP Ice or even just a Special Ape ((which is rare so eh) with HP Ice, Flamethrower, and Grass Knot does massive damage to the team.
    You can do those situations with every team, as I have said before a scarfer will bring more problems to the table.

    I know this team works from the results and rankings I have got with it.

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