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Thread: Fixing What Isn't Broken: My Battle Tower Magnum Opus

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    Default Fixing What Isn't Broken: My Battle Tower Magnum Opus

    So, my last team worked very well. Now, I'm going to make it even better.



    Crux (Uxie) @ Choice Scarf
    Bold Nature
    EVs: 252 Hp / 72 Def / 184 Sp Def
    -Stealth Rock
    -Trick
    -Thunder Wave
    -Memento

    I'm excited to use this. He used to be Dual Screen Azelf, but I think this set could work even better. Tricks Scarf onto the opponent's lead, and proceeds to use Thunder Wave to once again have speed advantage. Then, Stealth Rock for Focus Sashers, and finally Memento to offensively cripple the lead.
    EVs round out his defenses. Modest Jolteon can't 2HKO him with Shadow Ball. However, Adamant Weavile does 2HKO him with Night Slash, but Scizor resists Night Slash like a boss, making setup still easy.



    Overkill (Scizor) @ Iron Plate
    Adamant Nature
    EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Sp Def
    -Bullet Punch
    -Swords Dance
    -Substitute
    -Roost

    Perfect. Uxie draws out attacks that Scizor resists, and while the opponent is sufficiently crippled in every sense, Scizor sets up and wins. Sub protects me from Status and Critical Hax. And OHKO, I believe? Roost helps shrug off any damage sustained. I used to have Aerial Ace, but I realized that if the opponent was locked into Double Team, I may as well just Bullet Punch until I hit.
    Iron Plate because Life Orb takes too much health away combined with Sub. Max attack EVs allows me to 2HKO the Bold Suicune variant most of the time.



    Nereus (Suicune) @ Chesto Berry
    Bold Nature
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp Atk
    -Calm Mind
    -Surf
    -Rest
    -Toxic/Ice Beam


    His purpose is to use Pressure and his incredible defenses to PP Stall out anything locked in a Fire move that would prevent Scizor from setting up. The EVs provide for max Physical Defense, while Calm Mind will take care of Special problems. Once the enemy is forced to Struggle, Scizor can set up and win.

    Personally, I'm somewhat leaning towards that second Suicune.
    There. He PP Stalls out Fire attacks like it's his job. Which it is. Then Scizor sets up, and bam, I Bullet Punch my way to victory. After a single Calm Mind, his Special Defense is on par with his Defense.

    Have fun rating!
    Last edited by Vaporeon4evr; 31st July 2009 at 9:35 PM.
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    The only thing I can think of right off the bat is that if you use the second Suicune set your team will be walled by Water types. I think Uxie should have at least one attack. By the way you do realise that of the three pokemon you have, you have a total of four attacks? That's bad IMO.

    Dumb posting ruining an amazing thread
    Last edited by foxyman1167; 26th July 2013 at 7:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxyman1167 View Post
    The only thing I can think of right off the bat is that if you use the second Suicune set your team will be walled by Water types. I think Uxie should have at least one attack. By the way you do realise that of the three pokemon you have, you have a total of four attacks? That's bad IMO.
    A +6 Bullet Punch isn't scared of Water resistance. It's at least a 2HKO on everything not named Magnezone, I believe. Perhaps HP Electric over Toxic/Ice Beam?

    Uxie isn't meant to be an attacker. He's a crippler. The AI won't switch, allowing me a free setup.

    Four attacks? Does that really matter? Who needs coverage when Bullet Punch is already a OHKO on most things, and a 2HKO on the rest? Besides, the other attacks are pretty important. Maybe Brick Break over Roost, but otherwise... meh.
    Last edited by Vaporeon4evr; 27th July 2009 at 11:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaporeon4evr
    A +6 Bullet Punch isn't scared of Water resistance. It's at least a 2HKO on everything not named Magnezone, I believe. Perhaps HP Electric over Toxic/Ice Beam?
    I have trouble believing a +6 Bullet Punch can 2HKO a 252/252 Suicune.

    Uxie isn't meant to be an attacker. He's a crippler. The AI won't switch, allowing me a free setup.
    Have you tested it? I've never run a Trick user extensively, so I don't know if they switch.

    Four attacks? Does that really matter? Who needs coverage when Bullet Punch is already a OHKO on most things, and a 2HKO on the rest? Besides, the other attacks are pretty important. Maybe Brick Break over Roost, but otherwise... meh.
    Really, a 2HKO at least, on everything? As in, 252/252 Bulky Waters?

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    I have trouble believing a +6 Bullet Punch can 2HKO a 252/252 Suicune.
    Probably not, but I believe Scizor still wins. Another reason for HP Electric on Suicune.

    Have you tested it? I've never run a Trick user extensively, so I don't know if they switch.
    The AI does not switch out of a Choice Item. Even it must resort to Struggle.

    Really, a 2HKO at least, on everything? As in, 252/252 Bulky Waters?
    I'll run some calcs. Maybe not all Bulky Waters, but enough. I doubt Scizor would find much trouble dealing with them.

    By the way, one Suicune variant in the Tower runs a Modest Nature with HP and Sp Atk EVs. The other runs Bold with Defense and Sp Atk EVs. None have 252/252 in HP and Defense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaporeon4evr
    Probably not, but I believe Scizor still wins. Another reason for HP Electric on Suicune.
    Scizor wins unless it tries to switch into a Surf.

    By the way, one Suicune variant in the Tower runs a Modest Nature with HP and Sp Atk EVs. The other runs Bold with Defense and Sp Atk EVs. None have 252/252 in HP and Defense.
    Alright then.

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    Scizor wins unless it tries to switch into a Surf.
    Which I will never allow. I'd have my Suicune PP stall out the surf.

    Alright then.
    I ran the calcs. A +6 Scizor 2HKO's both Suicune variants with the 156 Atk EVs I invested. With a few more, I'd be able to always 2HKO the Bold one (which I barely 2HKO as it is) even with Leftovers support. This is all assuming perfect IVs, which I have, and I don't think the AI does.

    Now that that's settled, how's the team? I still need an EV spread for Uxie, and work on the other two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vaporeon4evr
    I ran the calcs. A +6 Scizor 2HKO's both Suicune variants with the 156 Atk EVs I invested. With a few more, I'd be able to always 2HKO the Bold one (which I barely 2HKO as it is) even with Leftovers support. This is all assuming perfect IVs, which I have, and I don't think the AI does.
    I stand corrected then.

    Now that that's settled, how's the team? I still need an EV spread for Uxie, and work on the other two.
    Uxie's spread depends on what you want to outrun before your Trick. The other two are perfectly fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaotic Tyrant View Post
    Uxie's spread depends on what you want to outrun before your Trick. The other two are perfectly fine.
    Timid Jolteon would be nice. His Shadow Balls could be problematic. I beat him, I beat most things not scarfed. Including Weavile, which could also be a problem. I think it would take about 160 speed EVs for me to get 135 speed, which outruns Timid Jolteon (200 speed) with Choice Scarf.

    Although I'm not sure it would matter... either way, the enemy probably will get two attacks in before Thunder Wave anyway.

    Uxie uses Trick
    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Uxie uses Thunder Wave

    OR (If Uxie is slower)

    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Uxie uses Trick
    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Uxie uses Thunder Wave

    In that case, is it wiser to just focus on making sure Uxie can take hits? 252 HP for sure, but I'm not sure after that.

    Btw, which Suicune?
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    Life Orb + Substitute is too much Hp loss, even with Roost. Use one or the other with Roost. If you choose to drop Substitute, you should go with X-Scissor or Brick Break, really.
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  11. #11

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    Timid Jolteon would be nice. His Shadow Balls could be problematic. I beat him, I beat most things not scarfed. Including Weavile, which could also be a problem. I think it would take about 160 speed EVs for me to get 135 speed, which outruns Timid Jolteon (200 speed) with Choice Scarf.

    Although I'm not sure it would matter... either way, the enemy probably will get two attacks in before Thunder Wave anyway.

    Uxie uses Trick
    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Uxie uses Thunder Wave

    OR (If Uxie is slower)

    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Uxie uses Trick
    Weavile uses Night Slash
    Uxie uses Thunder Wave

    In that case, is it wiser to just focus on making sure Uxie can take hits? 252 HP for sure, but I'm not sure after that.
    Hm... I'd say just go with as few Spe EVs as possible. This is kind of up to preference. I would go with a higher amount of Bulk, but if you want emphasize Spe, I won't stop you.

    Btw, which Suicune?
    To be honest, I don't know which is better for you. They're both good sets. I like the first one, if only because I prefer the slightly more Offensive Suicunes, but if you want the second set, go ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SapphireL View Post
    Life Orb + Substitute is too much Hp loss, even with Roost. Use one or the other with Roost. If you choose to drop Substitute, you should go with X-Scissor or Brick Break, really.
    I was afraid of this. Well, Substitute is too invaluable in the BT. Saves my ass from random crits and other hax. I guess I'll settle for Muscle Band or Iron Plate, and maybe go ahead and max out my attack EVs.
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    Mods, I apologize for the double post.

    The team has been updated in BOLD. Refer back to first post.
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    Triple post, I know XD I'm sorry, but I wanted to go ahead and let my fellow players how the team worked out.

    Well, I've been using this team for about a week, and it's time for a follow-up analysis.

    FOLLOW-UP ANALYSIS

    This team is pure ownage. Absolutely. I just passed 100 battles, and now I'm somewhere in the 110's. Trickscarf is probably the most efficient strategy to use in the Tower. Uxie is a wall and is never OHKO'd by anything, even Explosion (from Heatran, at least), allowing for successful Trickscarfing. There are several threats that do 2HKO it, but it doesn't matter in the end. These threats include pokemon with STAB Super-Effective attacks. Scizor and Pinsir with X-Scissor, Weavile and Honchcrow with Night Slash, and Porygon-Z and Gengar with Shadow Ball. All Pokemon seem to carry either Shadow Ball or Signal Beam in the Tower, and Uxie is a magnet for these attacks.

    Scizor sets up with ease, all the time. He comes in to often crippled Pokemon locked into moves he resists. He maxes attack, sets up a Sub, Roosts away damage, and Bullet Punch sweeps. Never fails.

    Suicune is actually much bulkier than I could ever imagine. He walls everything with ease. He can easily Calm Mind a few times, Rest, then keep on Calm Minding. Then +6 Surf usually sweeps.

    This team is about as Hax-proof as I can make it. Substitute is a Godsend, protecting me from status, critical hits, random Sashes, Counter/Mirror Coat, and even OHKO moves. I definitely recommend Sub for any team in the BT. Double Team is never a problem, as Bullet Punch takes care of things before Double Teamers can do anything.

    Problem pokemon include Magnezone, who resists Bullet Punch like a champ and wrecks Suicune with Thunderbolt. As long as I'm behind a sub, however, I can 3HKO with Scizor without too much sweat. Also, Choice item leads screw me up, because then I have to switch out. But it's never truly a large problem.

    In conclusion, this team is win. I had no idea it would function so well. Now I'm chasing the Serebii Forum record of 126 in the Rankings Thread. Only 15 battles away!
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    Nice job with this, especially the part where you stole the whole thing
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2033852

    4th post on that page. Completely stolen. Atleast give credits .

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    How do you know Vaporeon stole this team? That guy has 18 posts. Vaporeon has over 800. I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say maybe the other guy stole it? Or they both came up with the same team? That CAN happen.

    Just so this isn't spam. Great team Vaporeon! Good idea on the Iron Plate cause Bullet Punch does seem to be your nuke.


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    Look at the date Calisto posted that.

    Jun 24th, 2009 9:06:00 AM

    This wasn't posted before that, amirite?

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    ^You are completely stupid. Vaporeon4evr has probably been playing Pokemon for twice as long as that guy. Also, what you see in the first post isn't the first idea for the team, it's the final one, duh. He combined the suggestions that people gave him with his own experience and came up with what the team is now. Something I doubt you could do on your best day. So give it a rest saying he ripped stuff off, you're just drawing negative attention to yourself.
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    There are only so many combinations of (good) Pokemon that one can use in the Battle Tower. While the possibility that (s)he copied does exist, I doubt that Vaporeon4evr really "copied" anything.
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    Lol okaaayyy

    He made the movesets himself too, so Calisto did absolutely nothing huh? Vaporeon created these sets. Yup he sure did.

    /sarcasm

    He obviously ripped these sets from Calisto, pull your asses out of your heads. He's just taking credit for something he didn't even come up with.

    Even the suicune one was ripped from Calisto -.-

    And EonMaster, don't butt into it, your rates are complete crap.

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    ZOMG!!
    Take a look at Vapoeron's previous threads, will you?
    Then you'll understand how he came up with this team and also, that he's probably much better than Calisto.

    And WTF? Eon Master is one of the better raters here, you're the one who shouldn't "butt into it". Stop speaking about things you don't know anything about!
    Last edited by Arsel; 4th September 2009 at 9:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenUBetcha View Post
    Nice job with this, especially the part where you stole the whole thing
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2033852

    4th post on that page. Completely stolen. Atleast give credits .
    MASSIVE FAILURE

    I personally helped V4E put this together on another RMT. Go onto his profile, and check his threads if you don't believe me.

    Better yet: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=403014

    Next, Team's aren't copyrighted. As amazing as this strategy is and as much as it deserves credit, there's absolutely NO way the guy can claim that this Team can't be used anywhere else.

    He obviously ripped these sets from Calisto, pull your asses out of your heads. He's just taking credit for something he didn't even come up with.

    Even the suicune one was ripped from Calisto -.-
    Funny, because that Suicune isn't that unique. I doubt that V4E is the first person to use a Suicune with Rest, Chesto, Calm Mind, Toxic, and Surf.

    Look at the date Calisto posted that.

    Jun 24th, 2009 9:06:00 AM

    This wasn't posted before that, amirite?
    Because V4E totally only made one thread for this and has never shown any progress between making it, amirite?

    As for the date... That does hold a bit of water. But I'm not convinced. At all.

    Also, nice, bump this just to get attention about how ZOMG I FIGURED IT OUT ME ME ME instead of just contacting V4E and Calisto privately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BenUBetcha View Post
    Lol okaaayyy

    He made the movesets himself too, so Calisto did absolutely nothing huh? Vaporeon created these sets. Yup he sure did.

    /sarcasm

    He obviously ripped these sets from Calisto, pull your asses out of your heads. He's just taking credit for something he didn't even come up with.

    Even the suicune one was ripped from Calisto -.-

    And EonMaster, don't butt into it, your rates are complete crap.
    *sniff* That was completely brilliant
    /sarcasm lol

    I'm just gonna be like you but talking about Vaporeon instead of Callisto.

    Here it goes.

    Vaporeon creates everything in the world of Pokemon. Callisto probably used a time machine to rip these off of Vaporeon. It's impossible for two people in the entire world to come up with the same moveset.

    BenUBetcha don't butt into it, your rates are complete crap.
    Which is pretty much the equivalent of the comeback "You're Gay"

    I (and everyone else against BenUBetcha) win. 'Nuff said.
    Last edited by LilBandito; 4th September 2009 at 10:25 PM.


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