Dressed for Jess Success! (614)

[STICKTOPIA]

This was the worst contest ever! It was horrible! Mamoswine needs to control its temper!

[S.Suikun]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought the fresh elements in this particular contest made it the best contest in quite a while. Crossdressing James is worth price of admission alone, but other things like Meowth's first legitimate appeal, the ramen shop dude cameo, and an interesting bout with Mamoswine proving that as tame as it may now be, Dawn is not yet in full control of its power. Oh, and James won something. How amazing is that? The battle, while one-sided, was enjoyable. Carnivine never fails to amuse, from toying with the Ice Ball to its random ballet performance on the battlefield.

I love how Mamoswine emerges in perfume from it's stickered Pokeball. Two losses in a row is pretty steep, especially for the final ribbon, but I guess this contest arc needs to be dragged out as much as possible. I've talked about how the show has sort of slumped in the process of advertising Johto, but even though Johto was still present here (they dedicated a good minute to a Granbull battle, and we hardly ever see matches against background characters in contests nowadays), this was a higher quality episode than the last several.

[STICKTOPIA]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I thought the fresh elements in this particular contest made it the best contest in quite a while. Crossdressing James is worth price of admission alone, but other things like Meowth's first legitimate appeal, the ramen shop dude cameo, and an interesting bout with Mamoswine proving that as tame as it may now be, Dawn is not yet in full control of its power. Oh, and James won something. How amazing is that? The battle, while one-sided, was enjoyable. Carnivine never fails to amuse, from toying with the Ice Ball to its random ballet performance on the battlefield.

I love how Mamoswine emerges in perfume from it's stickered Pokeball. Two losses in a row is pretty steep, especially for the final ribbon, but I guess this contest arc needs to be dragged out as much as possible. I've talked about how the show has sort of slumped in the process of advertising Johto, but even though Johto was still present here (they dedicated a good minute to a Granbull battle, and we hardly ever see matches against background characters in contests nowadays), this was a higher quality episode than the last several.

and thats y i think he's a better coordinator than jessie.

[SHINY CATCHER]

James did much better than I thought he'd do and it shows that he is quite strong(Won his first ever contest) But still Dawn shouldn't have lost if she wants to become a champion coordinator. Also looking forward to seeing if Jessie qualifies for the GF or not.

[jolteonjak]

but other things like Meowth's first legitimate appeal,

No it wasn't. Meowth did an ice sculpture of Giovanni in the Pacifidlog contest.

I thought this episode was great...because of many of the things SSuikun said. At the end of the contest I wanted to cry for Mamoswine. It looked so upset that it screwed up so badly. What I don't get is, why didn't Mamoswine just open its mouth when Carnivine sent the Ice Shard back at it? Oh well.

I've always wanted to see James in a contest, albeit as himself (or someone like Jameson or something). I hope he tries one out on his own one time.

[Meron]

James seemed to be stronger than Jessie which was the weird part. At the end Jessie hugged him and Meowth and then said something that really freaked him out. I have a feeling she told him to dress up as Candy Musaline(is that what she's called?) in every contest from now on, is that right? IMO it'll last until Dawn's next contest where she defeats James.

No, no, NO. She was angry that she didn't get her screentime, and then she announced something that she is the real Candy Musarina and put her dress on.

And she was upset at the appeal because she was jealous of the applauds that Kojiro got. :P

[BM14murph]

I really liked this episode o be honest it had alot of fresh material

The art was amazing and i really like the new swallow tactic (Dirty!!!)
James is one hell of a coordinator isn't he..he got one hell of a pop offf the crowd
The final battle was amazing with Mamoswine going back to his roots and being really tempermental and Carnivine showing us how brilliant a battler he is by whooping Mamo without any effort
SO HAPPY JAMES WON AND JESSIE GOT ANOTHER RIBBON!!!

GOOD TIMES!!!!

[Torpoleon]

So Dawn lost, right? And James disguised himself as Jessie when she was sick and won the ribbon for her? Wow. Tough luck for Mamoswine. Dawn looked pretty prepared for the contest as well.

[Caseydia]

Dawn needs to get less ribbons than Ash needs badges, so why is it so hard for Dawn to win just one more ribbon? Contests are so stupid. If she was a trainer she could just get a rematch from a gymleader but for a coordinater she has to wait to get to another town. So sad. And how could she even think of usng Mamoswine when she darn well knows it hasn't been trained well to listen to her enough? Often she doesn't seem to think.

[CyberCubed]

If she was a trainer she could just get a rematch from a gymleader but for a coordinater she has to wait to get to another town.

Isn't that why getting ribbons is harder? You can't just ask for a rematch like a Gym.

[Geodude]

Ok james won but he hardly "beat" dawn

You just contradicted yourself. That makes no sense.

Dawn never got the chance to be in control of her battle. Mamoswine got angry because carnivine stole it ice shard and stop listening and james capitalize on this. im pretty sure if mamoswine had listened, dawn probably would have won. having mamoswine disobyed was thev writers way of giving team rocket the victory with out trivializing dawn's skills or accomplishments as a trainer.

So what exactly would be wrong with Dawn losing to Jessie or James without Mamoswine's temper problems? Jessie does have a measure of talent in Contests, as her two ribbons before this episode attest. And when given the chance to have a longer battle, James has held his own on many previous occasions. Since he has helped and supported Jessie in every single previous contest, he's clearly learned a lot about them. A loss to a disguised Team Rocket member in a legitimate Contest battle is exactly the same as any other loss.

And how could she even think of usng Mamoswine when she darn well knows it hasn't been trained well to listen to her enough? Often she doesn't seem to think.

Kotone brought up this exact question, though in a much more polite manner. Dawn's response was that she was treating it just like any other Contest.

The final battle was amazing with Mamoswine going back to his roots and being really tempermental

Mamoswine's "roots" are in disobedience due to lack of respect for Dawn. What happened here was simply that it lost its temper. It's still a problem that Dawn and Mamoswine have to work on, but there is a distinct difference.

No, no, NO. She was angry that she didn't get her screentime, and then she announced something that she is the real Candy Musarina and put her dress on.

She didn't say those exact words, she was just re-stating her Top Coordinator goal.

[Ciccone]

Possibly the most disappointing contest. Carnivine was too "skillful" in this contest. Maybe because it was focused but I still didn't like how it outmaneuvered Mamoswine. Mamoswine losing control was cool though, it shows that although Dawn's gotten stronger, she still needs to train Mamoswine a little bit harder.

[CyberCubed]

James winning a contest and Mamoswine losing control is disappointing?

If anything this was one of the better DP contests. We know Dawn will get her 5th ribbon eventually, in the meantime let's enjoy James winning and development for Mamoswine.

[KrayzieBuddha]

Its obvious shes going to lose the Suiren Contest. And besides, the show reaches its halfway point of the series.

[Ragingmaiden]

okay...then that's her 5th lost

[Devastator1]

You just contradicted yourself. That makes no sense.

Yes it does and if you know what a scare quote is then it'll probably make sense to you. The word "beat" was used in a sensationalized context many times in this thread to make it seem as if james just annihilated dawn like the way paul did ash in their 6 on 6 battle. And in reality that just isnt true, which is what that sentence is saying. when quotation marks are used like that it usually signifies that the word is being used in a different context or to draw emphasis to it. In this case it's meant to do both.

on face value if may seem like a contradiction but really...it isnt. I hope the above was enough to clear up your confusion.

So what exactly would be wrong with Dawn losing to Jessie or James without Mamoswine's temper problems? Jessie does have a measure of talent in Contests, as her two ribbons before this episode attest.
Firstly i like the way you say "temper problems"....it just makes it sound like its was an angry mamoswine. Not an angry, rampaging mamoswine that wouldnt listen to its trainer.
secondly, I see what you just tried to do there and its a amateur and pretty stupid move tbh. Not once did I say anything about jessie, and using her name the way you just did implies that I think that there is a problem with dawn losing to jessie (which isnt even what this is about) and it tries to take away validity from the point i was trying to make. I really wouldnt care if dawn lost to james but the mamoswine that took out granbull with one hit wasnt the same mamoswine (attitude wise) that battle against james. If it was, there's no doubt that battle would have gone differently, even if dawn still lost (meaning it would have been a lot closer). dawn was still reletively inexperience when she won the wallace cup against May (a very competent co-ordinator) with a piplup againts a pokemon (glaceon) thats been in a lots of contest and recently gained power by evolving. so i dont see why she would have lost if mamoswine listended, against a pokemon that gets KO by thunderbolts, water gun and even bubble beam every episode and a trainer (even if knowledgeable) that has never been in a contest.

And when given the chance to have a longer battle, James has held his own on many previous occasions. Since he has helped and supported Jessie in every single previous contest, he's clearly learned a lot about them. A loss to a disguised Team Rocket member in a legitimate Contest battle is exactly the same as any other loss.


Yes it is a legitimate contest battle but it is in no way excactly the same loss as any other loss. im guessing you didnt see the part where mamoswine didnt listen or maybe you just watched the pictures on serebii.net. i can honestly tell you that this is the first time in pokemon contest history that anyone lost has occured beacuse of a pokemon that wont listen.
K.

I suggest you read carefully.

[Geodude]

Argh, it is so typical of this site that when I'm just lurking, it loads fine, but when I actually decide to post something, it slows to a crawl. -_- So I don't have to wait through still more load times in order to section off quotes, I'll try to do without:

I don't know what you're reading, but the fact is, James dominated because Mamoswine was out of control. Putting any kind of spin on this fact is just a confusing waste of time. Hopefully that isn't what you're trying to do.

You said: "having mamoswine disobyed was thev writers way of giving team rocket the victory with out trivializing dawn's skills or accomplishments as a trainer." So let me try to explain again, since I may not have made myself clear: Does that mean that you think that if Dawn had lost to James without Mamoswine's temper problems (it lost its temper and went out of control, so yes, it has temper problems), or if she had lost to him with another Pokemon, it would 'trivialize her skills and accomplishments as a trainer'? If so, I disagree, for the reasons I already stated.

About the last point of mine that you responded to: My point was simply that a loss is a loss. It was an official contest, there was no dishonesty or trickery involved, so there is no reason to put any sort of disclaimer on the loss. One just accepts it and moves on.

[Ragingmaiden]

this episode is so awesome
dawn's mamoswine almosr destroy the machine
that means she did not forbidden in contest by using mamoswine

[Devastator1]

Argh, it is so typical of this site that when I'm just lurking, it loads fine, but when I actually decide to post something, it slows to a crawl. -_- So I don't have to wait through still more load times in order to section off quotes, I'll try to do without:

I don't know what you're reading, but the fact is, James dominated because Mamoswine was out of control. Putting any kind of spin on this fact is just a confusing waste of time. Hopefully that isn't what you're trying to do.

What I was simply trying to do is bring some realism to this thread. IMO, James didnt dominate, owned and every other word that was used to exaggerate dawns loss in this thread. I think he capitalise on mamoswine "temper issues" as carnivine spend most of the battle jumping over mamoswine and dodging attacks, how the heck is that dominating? And yes james did win because mamoswine was out of control. I'm glad you saw that too.

You said: "having mamoswine disobyed was thev writers way of giving team rocket the victory with out trivializing dawn's skills or accomplishments as a trainer." So let me try to explain again, since I may not have made myself clear: Does that mean that you think that if Dawn had lost to James without Mamoswine's temper problems (it lost its temper and went out of control, so yes, it has temper problems), or if she had lost to him with another Pokemon, it would 'trivialize her skills and accomplishments as a trainer'? If so, I disagree, for the reasons I already stated.

Yes. if dawn had control of mamoswine throughout the battle, there is no doubt in my mind, it would have went differently as i mentioned above, a win possibly. The writers wanted james to win and there had to be a good reason for this.. right or wrong?....now if mamoswine didnt lose its temper and james still won, wouldnt it be illogical for the writers to make james (a novice) do what jessie and May 2 experience coordinators fail to do, jessie on more than one occasion.

And your reasons was: "And when given the chance to have a longer battle, James has held his own on many previous occasions. Since he has helped and supported Jessie in every single previous contest, he's clearly learned a lot about them."

except for the pokeringer contest in hoenn, I cant think of any occasion when james has held his own (he failed miserably in second ringer tournament btw) but that may be due to the fact that he hardly does anything and the only times he has showed skill in any battle is when jessie is there battling beside him. and dawn may have learned a lot from her mom about contest, but still loss her first one, ash has been in a few never won any, so not because he learn about them justifies him winning his first. I think having mamoswine disobey was a good way of letting him win. It doesnt make him seem better than any of the main co-ordinators and i repeat it doesnt trivialise or down play dawn's skills as a trainer.



About the last point of mine that you responded to: My point was simply that a loss is a loss. It was an official contest, there was no dishonesty or trickery involved, so there is no reason to put any sort of disclaimer on the loss. One just accepts it and moves on.

Touché, a loss is a loss and i cant disagree with that, but the way the writers choose to have mamoswine disobey, made it feel like dawn had a handicap as there really wasnt anything she could do and to me that made it seem terribly one-sided, unfair, cheap whatever....lol

[Ragingmaiden]

Touché, a loss is a loss and i cant disagree with that, but the way the writers choose to have mamoswine disobey, made it feel like dawn had a handicap as there really wasnt anything she could do and to me that made it seem terribly one-sided, unfair, cheap whatever....lol

Contest Judge didn't forbidden Dawn to use mamoswine again in contest