I skipped RAW for the 70th time. What's this app?
They've been advertising the app on both RAW and Smackdown, I kind of ignore how it works, but they show stuff like Superstars getting interviews on it while a match is in progress. There was a Dolph Ziggler one, two Wade Barret ones, and a one with Fandango and his dance partner, mocking the dance injury during Chris Jericho's match last Smackdown. Yes, I watched some parts of Smackdown. I was home and nothing was on T.V. so I watched. Is Booker T still the GM? Because Teddy seems to be running the show again, not that I have a problem with that, just wondering where Booker T is. Of course he made a main event tag match of Sheamus, Orton, and Del Rio vs Swagger, Big Show, and Mark Henry. I didn't get to see it, but I think I know who won.
By the way has anyone see that John Cena Fruity Pebbles commercial? I saw it yesterday and all I could think about was that promo with the Rock and that little kid with the Cena gear on. I laughed so much during it.
Parena or Serecham both equal Serena+Pancham! Sereevee or Serevee equals Serena+Eevee!
No one else gets a good shot at the title anymore. I stopped watching wrestling for a few years and just recently returned to it and I'm surprised at how much WWE has changed. I looked a the WWE title history from when I stopped watching to the present and one thing that was always there was Cena as champ. Most title runs with other guys is short and don't get a fair crack at the whip. Really its now become who's next to feed the John Cena machine. Look at this weeks raw. Cena beat the shield 3 on 1 even though for months they have laid waste to most of the locker room including Cena. It makes no sense and is very poor booking.
That's why fans hate Cena everything and one loses to Cena when it makes zero sense just to keep his image as the "superman" cena.
True WWE might of become PG because of Linda but Cena is seen as the face of the PG era and fans boo and hate him because they hate the PG era, especially since fans have been booing him for years and yet he still gets pushed, wjile other wrestlers who's characters remind them of the attitude era get nothing.
That WWE App is getting quite a push. Its getting more air time than the entire mid card. I can see it now;
WWE App vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 30.
Book it, Vince.
And it's painfully obvious why people hate Cena... for one thing he's a glorified child act who's booked to be better than the entire roster. That's like making Jar Jar Binks the most powerful Jedi and having him mentor Darth Vader.
I think a lot of it is because they have no competition. no matter how bad the show gets and how much emphasis is put on sponsors, social media and accolades instead of the writing they know people will still watch, because there's no real alternative.
NXT is the best wrestling show in America atm. HHH and Rhodes are doing a great job
Lol, poor Cena. I am not a John Cena fan, and I really want him to take a break and let some new guys try and get to the top, but I still don't think he's as bad as internet fans make him out to be. I just want a John Cena break, I am tired of him, I will admit that. But I don't hate him, and he's still with WWE and didn't just up and leave.
Extreme Rules is tonight, is anybody watching? I'm actually not going to watch this time. I'm saving my money for something else, but I do expect The Shield to all win gold, Alberto Del Rio to win his match, Randy Orton will probably win his, I hope Mark Henry wins his, I hope Ryback wins the WWE belt, but not counting on it, and hopefully Brock Lesnar wins because he needs it more if the WWE are going to keep bringing him back for Wrestlmania's and Summerslams. I have no idea if Jericho will win against Fandango. I hope he does but I'm not sure. I feel so bad for Chris Jericho. He hasn't really had any big wins since his return.
Parena or Serecham both equal Serena+Pancham! Sereevee or Serevee equals Serena+Eevee!
John Cena- A man who stands for justice and is the best of the best, but is relatable because of his kid like personality.
The shield-Group of meanies who don't play by the rules. They wear all black too!
The undertaker-A mythical figure who can call lightning.
Compared to say-
Edge- A borderline lunatic who will use any means neccessary to get what he wants.
NXT Daniel Bryan- A guy who we like....because he is technically sound and puts on excessive submission manuvers?
The Corre- A group of disgraced individuals....who came from a larger group of disgraced individuals, who also have decided to add a fourth member with absolutely no relation to any of this, and have no motive whatsoever.
You get my point, the characters of today are far easier for a kid to digest. Now of course I think they could do more characters like D-Bry/kane and get away with it, but what they've been doing is proven to work. And don't bother bringing up the ratings decline, it will only lead to a 2 page 46 paragraph debate with charizard fan
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I can't really say much about the history of WWE, but I agree that others should be main eventing as much as cena. but people shouldn't hate him for that. he's not the on making executive decisions. that's why I always feel bar for him when he's booed excessively. besides, I doubt the writers care that much of the older audience's opinions. maybe if WWE did have any competition, they would start caring. it really is a shame, though. IMO wwe catering to the child audience is a selling out, not only to the older audience, but also to their superstars. those superstars join the wwe because they wanna entertain and put on great shows, not to act stupid for the kids. but I'm sure this is the direction that wwe will keep going because it's the easiest way to make money
That said, somebody needs to explain how pushing a more family-oriented product is selling out, when that's what WWF/E has traditionally been. The only time you could actually say it ever sold out was when it neglected children in favor of pushing a trashier and more vulgar product aimed at older audiences.
Older audiences a.k.a. adults, as in the majority of the show's audience if I'm not mistaken, not to mention the hardcore fans who watch every PPV and whatnot.
You call it trashier yet it's still more memorable and interesting then the bland garbage they air now (for the most part, anyway) and I doubt the Attitude era alienated kids in the same way that the show now is alienating it's adult audience.
It isn't really that they are pushing for a more PG family friendly show it's that almost every angle has to be watered down to the point where it becomes a joke so as to not offend kids, even the ones intended for their adult audience.
Anyway I really don't want to get into another aforementioned 2 page 46 paragraph debate so I'll just leave it at this...
The Attitude Era had more its fair share of garbage that was just as bland and forgettable as anything going on today, not to mention stuff that's only memorable because of how terrible it was (Mae Young giving birth to a hand, anybody?). It's just that no one remembers it now.
But none of this shows how WWE is selling out. It - and by "it", I mean the product under Vince McMahon Jr. - was always intended as a family-oriented business, where children were a valuable and important resource. Alienating children, and the Attitude era did alienate children (unless you honestly believe children were meant to sit through pay-per-views where The Kat (... at least I think it was Kat, or maybe Sable...) went topless), is a terrible long-term business move because while adults might support a product now, it's the children who'll be supporting it ten years from now. In the late '90s, WWE turned away from that business model in order to target the adult audience, for what was ultimately a short-term gain (the high point of Attitude never even lasted half as long as the high point of the '80s) and a longer-term loss. If that wasn't "selling out", I don't know what is.
Of course, getting annoyed with a business for "selling out" is silly in the first place. It's designed to make money, and the financial factors are always going to come first in any of WWE's decisions.
In any case, catering to children shouldn't mean watered down storylines, so I agree with your point in general. There are plenty of examples of children's entertainment that's intelligently-written that anyone can enjoy. If this is a problem - and I'm not really watching WWE right now, so I wouldn't know - then it's not because of the demographics WWE is aiming at. It's because of the writers, or whoever's in the ring, or both.
EDIT: and if you don't want your points to be challenged or a debate, then you're free to not respond, or even make the point in the first place. But I'm not going to say something without backing it up with anything that I can. That would just defeat the point of a discussion.
Last edited by charizardfan; 20th May 2013 at 5:37 PM.
I don't think people mean they are annoyed when they say WWE is "selling out", they just hate the shitty product, and inconstant booking. Honest, WWE could be totally aimed at kids and still put on fantastic show that will entertain the fans. And by fans, I mean the grow men who watched through the 90's - mid 2005's. Not the soccer moms that scream when Cena takes of his shirt (aka cenation) or the endless amount of Punk marks that think he's the best because he came from the indy scene that they ( the marks) didn't even watch. I would love it if the WWE brought back more gimmicks, characters and more consistent booking (Kane went from a monster to taking therapy?) The shield kinda reminds me of the big boss man, which is good. As for the Mae hand thing, yeah, it was stupid, but still interesting and fresh. You know what isn't fresh? Orton hiting RKO's outta nowhere or hell stables being feed to Cena. Even Stone Cold, HBK, Bret Hart and The Rock loss constantly and didn't always come out on top. That's what I think people mean by WWE selling out.
Also the Shield are champs, awwwwwwwwwwyeaaaaaaaah.
Personally, what I'd like to see - and I've mentioned this here two or three times before - is a more believable product. They can have the crazy gimmicks if they want, but I'd like to see a WWE where entrance music doesn't inexplicably play when someone is supposed to be frantically rushing to the ring, and one where there's no invisible camera backstage. Cut down on the silly backstage comedy skits. I'd also like to see matches have time limits again, references being made to the "winner's purse" and to when a champion is scheduled to make appearances, etc., more interviews, things like that. That way, it can be a more mature product without having to resort to an Attitude Era-mindset, which was just as juvenile as people claim the current product is.
But the point is that terrible booking and writing is not selling out. "Selling out" generally refers to compromising one's principals in order to gain further success or monetary gain. e.g. with the Attitude Era, WWF sold out by abandoned its past principals (if there ever were such a thing) as a family-friendly product and became trash television that aimed for older audiences instead.
Gotta admit, enjoyed last night's extreme rules ppv. Not one match really had that bigger than the event/everything else feel as you watched it, but it all blended so well together, that it made the whole thing damn enjoyable.
Jericho/Fandango- Match was ok, but clunky, Jericho has a talent for making almost anyone look good, but Fandango isn't doing his part to keep up the pace with Jericho. He's a bit slow on the reversals, sequences, etc. But not a bad match and a bad win for Jericho.
Ambrose/Kingston- Was surprised by the fact Ambrose went the whole match by himself. Puts more belief in him as a competitor to do so, same can be said later in the night for rollins/reigns. I'm really liking Ambrose's matches now, he's worked with a variety of opponents and has catered to putting on good matches with them. Complimented by Roman's power style and Seth's spot monkey/technical nature, these guys have it to put on good matches.
Sheamus/Henry- Could have been good, had a good concept with the new light system, and the build up was good. But the fact the strap was long, not used enough, and neither guy got in a lot except when mark stopped sheamus' progression, easily worst match of the night with the stacked line up we had for this ppv. Hopefully if they do go at it again, it'll be in something that caters to both guys strength.
ADR/Swagger-Good back and forth match, with inverted use of submissions and all. I give these guys props for what they had time to do, and got done. The crowd wasn't on fire or anything but did put heat on swagger some. Only gripe I have about this match, is reversing an old school tactic with a second ref when Colter made the original ref think Ricardo threw in the towel for ADR. Honestly, had that not changed, it would have added a lot more dynamic to the feud that is going on here. But lame WWE booking shows up yet again.
Reigns&Rollins/Hell NO-Good match up with all 4 guys shining with some spots, tag team work, and the crowd heavily involved at times. Roman and Seth showed they had a good unity in the match, and adds a dynamic of where does Hell NO go from here, and who steps up now?
Orton/Show-Randy had homefield advantage, a red hot crowd for him, and both guys put on a good match. Show resisted all Randy's offensive and 2 RKOs, and that lead back to THE PUNT! Please if this is anything let this be the seeds of either a heel turn or moving back up the card for Randy, the guy is a great talent that is wasting away. He's just one of those guys you watch and just want to keep seeing what will happen next if he brings back any previous incarnation (i.e. legend killer, viper hearing voices, etc.) of himself as it's intriguing.
Ryback/Cena-Love this last man standing, as it wasn't overly done with a lot of spots. Just both guys beating the hell out of each other then slowly adding blunt objects/weapons to put each other through. The fact it's a no contest since both guys were down longer than for what a 10 count would be, makes me want to see more after the beating both gave each other.
Lesnar/HHH-Surprisingly enough, it was a great match and I enjoyed watching it. Although I felt the LMS match should have been on last with the way it was booked it made sense to send the fans home with an actual finished match with a winner and loser. HHH beat the hell out of Lesnar, Brock beat the hell out of HHH. Simple, Heyman got involved, hurt HHH's chances of winning multiple times and even ended up with that low blow. The duo of Heyman/Lesnar is by far genius especially with how Heyman makes it work. LOL'ed at the cage camo sledge hammer, that was genius thinking HHH, but blew right back in your faced.
Overall a damn fine ppv that entertained me from start to finish except for 1 match. There were no lame filler matches added, no weird spots/filler time. It was everything pre-announced and for the most part smart booking except for 2 matches. Hopefully the momentum can continue with the next PPV.
I know I said I wouldn't reply but this probably won't end up turning into another massive debate so might as well...
You make valid points about how the attitude era could be considered selling out, They shifted all of their focus on pleasing adults. I just don't see how that's not the case now when they are doing essentially the same thing only with kids.
Last edited by Laser Shuckle; 20th May 2013 at 9:23 PM.
But can it really be called selling out if what they're doing is going back to their roots? If we accept that Attitude and the succeeding years after it was the exception, and not the rule, as far as professional wrestling goes, then that's what WWE would be doing.
And let's not forget that the term "selling out" usually isn't applied to businesses (which are expected to try and generate as much money as possible), but individuals and small groups. For example, an indy band that gets signed to major record label and begins producing music that's more mainstream-friendly than what the hardcore fanbase is used to. It's a subjective term that often doesn't consider the outside circumstances that force the creative changes. Much as I've said that the Attitude Era could be considered selling out, it was the move that saved WWF. The same could apply to the switch in programming back to family audiences in the wake of the Benoit episode and the subsequent damaging publicity brought on WWE because of it.
In any case, we seem to agree that the root cause for the current problems in the product (if there are any) is in the writing and the booking, and that's the main thing.