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Thread: The Official WWE Thread, Brother!

  1. #551
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  2. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night_Walker View Post
    Nexus is about numbers as much as anything else, they look considerably less imposing as a group of 5 then as 6 or 7 or 8. Plus you don't have to put everyone from NXT season 2 into Nexus to bolster them, just take a couple of the best ones.
    Or it might be that they aren't getting a half-hour every show to just beat people up anymore(yes we know barret can do the wasteland, and justin can do a 450 splash by now).

    I think Nexus has been considerably weakened by the choices WWE's made (specially continuing to kick Young out when Sheffield hurt himself before Young's match).[/SIZE][/FONT]


    For people who want wrestling he sure will. He'll be huge - ground wrestling, submission grappling and excellent aerial skills. For someone who's not been in pro wrestling at the top flight he looked extremely good, and his ability to manoeuvre around to keep the advantage showed up Cena's power.
    Thats kind of my point. You and I both know he is a fantastic wrestler and FUTURE star, but having some guy who didin't even make it to the top two of nxt, hasn't wrestled more than three individual matches on raw, and who more than half the fans don't know the name of do as much as he did do to cena is crazy booking wise.

    Well I'd think it should be clear what I want from the WWE in regards to the Nexus, but I'll say it as plain as day;
    I want to see Nexus continue to run rampant on RAW getting all the credit that they deserve rather than being shifted to use as cannon fodder for the most over hyped wrestler the WWE's ever had.
    I'm tired of the nexus, everybody in the crowd is tired of nexus, and I'm sure WWE is tired of nexus. They have had their run, and it was good, but even while they were going big, they didn't get much heat at all. The reason is, is because they did push them a giant group like you say they should now, and nobody still knows anything about them nor cares. Really all they need to do is keep barret(who I dislike but at least gets over), gabriel(obvious), and slater(just because he can do a match and promo without screwing up).

    John Cena has gained way too much from the Nexus feud:
    1) He's the one who's been victimised the most by Nexus.
    2) He put together team RAW to 'save' RAW from Nexus
    3) He eliminated 2 members of Nexus to win the elimination match for RAW despite being beaten on by Edge and Jericho.
    4) He ALONE defeated a Nexus member on the post Sumerslam RAW.
    5) He ALONE defeated a Nexus member last week on RAW.
    Does that not scream "love Cena, he's saving RAW from all these bad people even when Edge and Jericho stab him in the back!"?
    Well, you didn't really have to post all of that, I was referring to how cena saves raw by doing a normal pinfall match with gabriel. But I actually laughed when I seen number 4 and 5, to think that the biggest superstar in the company could beat ONE person is crazy right?

    I object to it. I know I'm biased against Cena because I don't like him always coming out on top against people who'd beat him easily in a real wrestling match cause they've got skill while he's just got brute strength - but the fact is he does get shoved down our throats.
    Yep, brute strength, likeable personality, memorable movepool, good look, endurance....when should I stop?

    As for the middle rope AA - Cena did another of his superman recoveries, basically no selling all the offence Gabriel had put on him til then, then nearly botched the move, and the move was all about power. Those are the things I've always disliked about Cena; he doesn't properly sell, he is clumsy with his moves and it's all about power.
    I can look at any other wrestler and see them selling just a much as cena is. Wrestling usually looks pretty bad and fake when the wrester sells something like a seizure and flies half way across the ring just from few punches.


    And I quote from RAW: "*Loud* Let's go Cena" "*Just as loud* Cena sucks!"
    The people in the arena who disliked him were every bit as vocal as those who love him. I'm sick of hearing this theory that Cena is beloved by almost all the WWE audience - for years a lot of people have wanted to see someone else being pushed and been being ignored by WWE management.
    And I quote, people cheering for the miz, wait, WHAT? HE'S SUPPOSED TO BE A HEEL. Don't tell me people in the crowd try to act cool by doing the opposite of what there supposed to!

    Since you don't like my other "Theory", how about this one...

    If half the audience ACTUALLY hates cena, how come his merchandise sells five times more than anyone else? It can't be the whole "cena's pusehd down our throats" thing again, because usually you don't buy somebody's shirt when you hate them.

    Of course you can say Cena's character is directed towards kids, true, but that also means if they ever want to have someone be as financially successful as him, they have to orient them towards kids. Meaning, you guessed it, more cena's.

    Really, the WWE needs someone like Cena, who realizes he never will get to use more moves than WWE tell him to, will never get a new character, and will constantly be a microscope and have people criticize him for things he apparently can't do. Its actually better this way, that Cena takes all the hatred and disrespect, so that way we don't have to see more wrestlers "shoved down our throats".

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    Its funny. I've only noticed these chants recently. Oh and one thing to remember: If Triple H thinks you suck, then that should say something.





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    It sucks now? I always thought it sucked.
    Bye </3 You got what you wanted, Zabi. Congrats, your lies worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firestar319 View Post
    Its funny. I've only noticed these chants recently. Oh and one thing to remember: If Triple H thinks you suck, then that should say something.
    Yeah, they been around sinse, 06 I think,

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanappu View Post
    It sucks now? I always thought it sucked.
    Retard troll is retarted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Night_Walker View Post
    Nexus is about numbers as much as anything else, they look considerably less imposing as a group of 5 then as 6 or 7 or 8. Plus you don't have to put everyone from NXT season 2 into Nexus to bolster them, just take a couple of the best ones.

    In terms of group dynamics, yes Young isn't as strong on the mic as some of the other members of Nexus but the same applies to Sheffield in my book (he's an enforcer not a talker).

    I think Nexus has been considerably weakened by the choices WWE's made (specially continuing to kick Young out when Sheffield hurt himself before Young's match).
    I'm fairly sure they are made out to be weaker because they don't get a half hour every raw to do the same crap they always do. Don't get me wrong, its great to be reminded Barret can do the wasteland and gabriel can do the 450 splash...

    For people who want wrestling he sure will. He'll be huge - ground wrestling, submission grappling and excellent aerial skills. For someone who's not been in pro wrestling at the top flight he looked extremely good, and his ability to manoeuvre around to keep the advantage showed up Cena's power.
    Exactly my point, he WILL be a threat. Having someone who hasn't had more than two solo matches on raw, not even one of the top three in his run in NXT, and being a person who half the audience probably doesn't know the name of do as much as he did against cena is ridiculous as it is.

    Well I'd think it should be clear what I want from the WWE in regards to the Nexus, but I'll say it as plain as day;
    I want to see Nexus continue to run rampant on RAW getting all the credit that they deserve rather than being shifted to use as cannon fodder for the most over hyped wrestler the WWE's ever had.
    Thats great and all, but the only reason they recieved any heat whatsoever was because they were crappily beating up people who were actually talented and worked to get where they are.

    Basically they did what you STILL want them to do, and you want to know why that didn't work? Because we don't know, nor care about any of them individually. The group gets over, not them, and then when you figure out they can't wrestle, its all over.


    John Cena has gained way too much from the Nexus feud:
    1) He's the one who's been victimised the most by Nexus.
    2) He put together team RAW to 'save' RAW from Nexus
    3) He eliminated 2 members of Nexus to win the elimination match for RAW despite being beaten on by Edge and Jericho.
    4) He ALONE defeated a Nexus member on the post Sumerslam RAW.
    5) He ALONE defeated a Nexus member last week on RAW.
    Does that not scream "love Cena, he's saving RAW from all these bad people even when Edge and Jericho stab him in the back!"?
    You really didn't have to post all of that. My entire point was that I didn't get how cena was the savior of raw for JUST doing a normal pinfall match against gabriel.

    I object to it. I know I'm biased against Cena because I don't like him always coming out on top against people who'd beat him easily in a real wrestling match cause they've got skill while he's just got brute strength - but the fact is he does get shoved down our throats.
    A real wrestling match?! Not quite sure I know what you mean. I think its obvious to anyone who knows wrestling is fake that people can beat people up in WWE that they couldn't in real life, buts thats not the point.

    As for the middle rope AA - Cena did another of his superman recoveries, basically no selling all the offence Gabriel had put on him til then, then nearly botched the move, and the move was all about power. Those are the things I've always disliked about Cena; he doesn't properly sell, he is clumsy with his moves and it's all about power.
    I HONESTLY don't see cena selling moves any different than any other wrestler I see. Moves typically look pretty bad when someone sells a few punches by flying half way across the ring and having a seizure.

    As far as his so called superman recovery, you mean pretty much the definition of recovery right? Getting better. Its nothing half the wrestler of the world don't do, hogan,michaels, undertaker, kane, big show, the list goes one.

    And I quote from RAW: "*Loud* Let's go Cena" "*Just as loud* Cena sucks!"
    The people in the arena who disliked him were every bit as vocal as those who love him. I'm sick of hearing this theory that Cena is beloved by almost all the WWE audience - for years a lot of people have wanted to see someone else being pushed and been being ignored by WWE management.
    And I quote, the crowd cheered for miz. WHAT?! BUT HE IS A HEEL! DON'T TELL ME SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE COOL AND GO AGAINST WHAT WWE WANTS THEM TO.

    And since you didn't like that other cena "Theory", how about this one.

    If half the crowd ACTUALLY hates cena, how come his merchandise does sells 5 times more than everyone elses? It can't be your age old line, "he's pushed down our throats", because usually you don't buy the shirt of somebody you hate.

    True, his character is directed towards kids, buts its not the like the kids don't have brains, they'll buy the merch. of whoever appeals to them. And really, if it only sells because they push cena, so what, they're a company, and they'll get that same money whether they push cena, kofi, or orton towards the kids.

    Really, its something simple people don't understand. Cena will be unpopular, when is unpopular. Its not like WWE is pushing Cena to screw with us, they'll push orton, bourne, kingston, or whoever if they are ACTUALLY working sales wise.

  7. #557
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    Raiga,

    I'm sorry but it's clear you and I have drastically differing takes on what's been going on.

    I like what's being done with Nexus but after just 3 months (yes "just 3 months" since most big storylines used to last at least 6 months) it's faltering.
    They don't seem as dangerous in terms of how they look in and around ringside (especially when they surround the ring now) anymore, and that now they're now getting beaten but not getting their own back.

    The Nexus is still massively over with the crowd, in terms of heel heat - they get the heck booed out of them every show, if the crowd was tired of them their heat would be a lot less then it is now.

    The Nexus storyline has pushed Cena because he has led the WWE/RAW fightback, and had to endure being stabbed in the back by Edge and Jericho, rather than having a midcarder like Morrison leading that (backed by Bourne, Truth, the Hart Dynasty etc).
    I mean seriously how good would this angle have been if it had been Nexus going up against the future main-event stars of RAW?

    Cena is being jeered and booed by half the crowd but is still being pushed like he's a recent hot face star who is never booed. Cena's stuff is still selling because his target demographic is still buying it, and will continue to unless he turns heel, that does not change the fact that there are people chanting things like "Cena sucks!" every bit as loud as his fans cheer him.
    Last edited by Night_Walker; 11th September 2010 at 3:32 PM.

  8. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night_Walker View Post
    Raiga, I'm sorry but it's clear you and I have drastically differing takes on what's been going on.
    Thats pretty much the entire point of posting on a forum. If all you want is to post your opinion without it being challenged whatsoever just say so, I'm fine with that if its what you want.

    I like what's being done with Nexus but after just 3 months (yes "just 3 months" since most big storylines used to last at least 6 months) it's faltering.
    Well, I never said it hasn't gotten better since the guest host era, but I do find feuds to work better withing a 1-4 month range.

    They don't seem as dangerous in terms of how they look in and around ringside (especially when they surround the ring now) anymore, and that now they're now getting beaten but not getting their own back.
    Not saying they don't, however WWE did pretty much the best the could with the talent involved. Its stale enough for me now, much less if they still had them beating up people and not doing matches, I would really hate them.

    I just think that the nexus could be fine, but they really should have had Barret reveal the nexus' "bigger purpose" like a month ago.

    The Nexus is still massively over with the crowd, in terms of heel heat - they get the heck booed out of them every show, if the crowd was tired of them their heat would be a lot less then it is now.
    I wouldn't necessarily say massive heat, but then again no one right now in the company really gets that much heat anymore anyways. And honestly, I see it more as X-pac heat, which is pretty much when you just don't want to see the person, not because you dislike them.

    The Nexus storyline has pushed Cena because he has led the WWE/RAW fightback, and had to endure being stabbed in the back by Edge and Jericho, rather than having a midcarder like Morrison leading that (backed by Bourne, Truth, the Hart Dynasty etc).
    I mean seriously how good would this angle have been if it had been Nexus going up against the future main-event stars of RAW?
    As much as I love all those people, I personally think the main reason the nexus did get over is they were decimating the biggest names on the roster. To be taken down by, unfortunately, a group of the biggest jobbers on raw, wouldn't get them the spot in wwe history books they probably have now.

    Not to mention, if they DID have that group go up against them AND treat the Nexus like the big thing on raw, where would the current main-event stars be(even excluding cena)? Its fine if a few people like jericho or edge are in the intercontinental divison, but even if only for the odd factor, seeing things like cena/orton/edge/jericho for the united states #1 contender would be just plain weird.

    Cena is being jeered and booed by half the crowd but is still being pushed like he's a recent hot face star who is never booed. Cena's stuff is still selling because his target demographic is still buying it, and will continue to unless he turns heel, that does not change the fact that there are people chanting things like "Cena sucks!" every bit as loud as his fans cheer him.
    I pretty much acknowledged all of that in my previous post, but again, somebody has to take the posterboy spot on WWE, and if say edge takes it he'll be booed eventually, and same with anyone else who does.

    I hate to say it, but really like everyone else, you just have to accept that cena will be in this position until a logical BUSINESS reason makes it change.
    Last edited by -Raiga-; 14th September 2010 at 12:22 AM.

  9. #559
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    Summer's over and still no Rock........and why in the blue hell is Matt Hardy jobbing AGAIN!? It pisses me off to no end to see the best Smackdown has(After Taker)and along with Christian jobbing to nobodys like Rhodes, if it was someone like goldust that would be fine, but that queer Cody!? WHY!!??. McIntyre,Cody, who's next? Juan Bradshaw layfeild? Like come on, he get the biggest pops after Taker, He has teh moves, he beat Edges and Jeff Hardy asses on multipule occasions but some how they are/was main eventing, he beat Taker Twice in a row, and Beat Kane Fairly, and HHH has a belly so don't give me that, was in the second most popular tag team in the atitude era after the New Age Outlaws and destroyed Brock lesnar.....so why why why?????


    Rant over....

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    Summer's over and still no Rock........and why in the blue hell is Matt Hardy jobbing AGAIN!? It pisses me off to no end to see the best Smackdown has(After Taker)and along with Christian jobbing to nobodys like Rhodes, if it was someone like goldust that would be fine, but that queer Cody!? WHY!!??. McIntyre,Cody, who's next? Juan Bradshaw layfeild? Like come on, he get the biggest pops after Taker, He has teh moves, he beat Edges and Jeff Hardy asses on multipule occasions but some how they are/was main eventing, he beat Taker Twice in a row, and Beat Kane Fairly, and HHH has a belly so don't give me that, was in the second most popular tag team in the atitude era after the New Age Outlaws and destroyed Brock lesnar.....so why why why?????


    Rant over....

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    Summer's over and still no Rock........and why in the blue hell is Matt Hardy jobbing AGAIN!? It pisses me off to no end to see the best Smackdown has(After Taker)and along with Christian jobbing to nobodys like Rhodes, if it was someone like goldust that would be fine, but that queer Cody!? WHY!!??. McIntyre,Cody, who's next? Juan Bradshaw layfeild? Like come on, he get the biggest pops after Taker, He has teh moves, he beat Edges and Jeff Hardy asses on multipule occasions but some how they are/was main eventing, he beat Taker Twice in a row, and Beat Kane Fairly, and HHH has a belly so don't give me that, was in the second most popular tag team in the atitude era after the New Age Outlaws and destroyed Brock lesnar.....so why why why?????


    Rant over....

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    Well, Mark Henry and Goldust won a match. Am I the only one here who wants to see Mark Henry & Evan Bourne win the tag team chamionship, or have Santino Marella & Vladimir Kozlov challenge The Hart Dynasty? And what was the point of The Nexus, Edge, Sheamus and Y2J interrupting the tables match for? I mean there was no logic to it, they should've waited until Randy Orton did his RKFU against John Cena, then have The Nexus jump Randy Orton. One more thing, why are they still having Teh Big Slow battle CM Punk for? Yes, we get it, Teh Big Show owns The SES. There's no point, and thism is coming from a Big Show fan here, there is no freakin' point in having the same match in 2 successive PPVs. Well, OK, the only difference is that Teh Big Show is battling CM Punk, 1 on 1, instead of 1 on 3, but still, same result.

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    Season 3 of NXT just made the WWE more worse, but at least few of the rookies can outwrestle their talentless-bimbo pros such as Kelly Kelly and The Bella Twins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilroy View Post
    Well, Mark Henry and Goldust won a match. Am I the only one here who wants to see Mark Henry & Evan Bourne win the tag team chamionship, or have Santino Marella & Vladimir Kozlov challenge The Hart Dynasty?
    I don't think your alone in wanting to at least see the tag champs wrestle somebody.

    And what was the point of The Nexus, Edge, Sheamus and Y2J interrupting the tables match for? I mean there was no logic to it, they should've waited until Randy Orton did his RKFU against John Cena, then have The Nexus jump Randy Orton.
    Perhaps they are all part of a match called the six pack challenge?

    One more thing, why are they still having Teh Big Slow battle CM Punk for? Yes, we get it, Teh Big Show owns The SES.
    Its simply for ending the SES. And frankly, they lasted longer than almost any four man groups last in one run, so it only makes sense their end, ends slowly as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchan View Post
    Season 3 of NXT just made the WWE more worse, but at least few of the rookies can outwrestle their talentless-bimbo pros such as Kelly Kelly and The Bella Twins.
    Maybe the bella twins, but not kelly kelly. She isn't solid, but is at least willing to do new moves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Thats pretty much the entire point of posting on a forum. If all you want is to post your opinion without it being challenged whatsoever just say so, I'm fine with that if its what you want.
    All I meant was we're not making head way in either direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Well, I never said it hasn't gotten better since the guest host era, but I do find feuds to work better withing a 1-4 month range.
    The guest host era was an unmitigated disaster in my opinion, cause it wrecked the traditional method of storytelling and it often advantaged the faces far more then in the past.

    I think the big feuds work a lot better over several months especially for building people up - plenty of time to talk on each week's show, time to build up heat with sneak attacks and such, and several PPV matches before its finally put to bed with a big match.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Not saying they don't, however WWE did pretty much the best the could with the talent involved. Its stale enough for me now, much less if they still had them beating up people and not doing matches, I would really hate them.

    I still think a little more could be done with Nexus. I think they should be engaged in more matches, as group and individuals, but since they're still supposed to be a threat if they do lose they should lay out the winner before leaving the ring.
    Like Monster Heels often do.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I just think that the nexus could be fine, but they really should have had Barret reveal the nexus' "bigger purpose" like a month ago.

    I thought the greater purpose was to take the lime-light away from the established stars. But yeah I think the WWE may have changed their plans for the Nexus - like originally it was rumoured they'd be connected to HHH.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I wouldn't necessarily say massive heat, but then again no one right now in the company really gets that much heat anymore anyways. And honestly, I see it more as X-pac heat, which is pretty much when you just don't want to see the person, not because you dislike them.
    I think they're drawing the most heel heat, Jericho and Edge are getting a lot less then Nexus.
    Well I must disagree, I think Nexus is getting heel heat because of their actions they're certainly not getting any "you can't wrestle" or similar chants.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    As much as I love all those people, I personally think the main reason the nexus did get over is they were decimating the biggest names on the roster. To be taken down by, unfortunately, a group of the biggest jobbers on raw, wouldn't get them the spot in wwe history books they probably have now.
    Personally I thought they got heat because they clobbered everyone (including Hart, McMahon and Steamboat) not because they targeted the very top. Morrison, Bourne and R-Truth for sure are over with the crowd so I'd think Nexus feuding with them would have helped pushed them.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Not to mention, if they DID have that group go up against them AND treat the Nexus like the big thing on raw, where would the current main-event stars be(even excluding cena)? Its fine if a few people like jericho or edge are in the intercontinental divison, but even if only for the odd factor, seeing things like cena/orton/edge/jericho for the united states #1 contender would be just plain weird.

    For me it's pretty clear.
    WWE title hunt - Orton, Sheamus, Cena, Edge and or Jericho.
    Middle tier - Nexus vs Bourne, Morrison, R-Truth, Hart Dynasty, the Miz, Edge and or Jericho etc.

    That way the title isn't dragged into the "future stars" angle.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I pretty much acknowledged all of that in my previous post, but again, somebody has to take the posterboy spot on WWE, and if say edge takes it he'll be booed eventually, and same with anyone else who does.

    I don't see it happening to someone like Edge because the wrestling fans will like him for his wrestling skill and the kids would love him winning regards of odds. I mean how big was he during that short face run?

    ...Spear...


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I hate to say it, but really like everyone else, you just have to accept that cena will be in this position until a logical BUSINESS reason makes it change.
    Oh look I understand why the WWE is using Cena the way they are. I just object to it because they're putting their merchandising interests so far above keeping the fans who tune in to watch wrestling happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Night_Walker View Post
    All I meant was we're not making head way in either direction.
    Kind of ironic as I'm disagreeing with this very statement, but I've noticed quite a few things between our discussion didn't make it to the next person's reply. Whether that means either you or I acknowledged the other person was right, or just simply didn't want to reply to too many things at once remains to be seen though.


    The guest host era was an unmitigated disaster in my opinion, cause it wrecked the traditional method of storytelling and it often advantaged the faces far more then in the past.
    Well, I think that the one thing we can truly agree on. The problem for me was two things. First, everyone knows wrestling is fake, but watches it to get absorbed into their crazy world, then when somebody from the real world steps in it kind of reminds you of what your watching. Second, as you mentioned, they had to fit them into some storyline, and they had to play the same face who screws over orton or miz.

    I still think a little more could be done with Nexus. I think they should be engaged in more matches, as group and individuals, but since they're still supposed to be a threat if they do lose they should lay out the winner before leaving the ring.
    Like Monster Heels often do.
    I like the idea, its just to me the nexus was great because this was something we never seen before, thus them doing something of a typical monster might deter from that. Not to mention, that just makes them sore losers, and wouldn't make them much of a threat title wise.

    I think they're drawing the most heel heat, Jericho and Edge are getting a lot less then Nexus.
    Well I must disagree, I think Nexus is getting heel heat because of their actions they're certainly not getting any "you can't wrestle" or similar chants.
    As far as heat goes, it is hard to judge though. First you have to take into account they are an entire group, as opposed to one person. Then its a matter if its barret(who is obviously the leader and does the most talking) is the one getting the heat, or if its the others included.

    Honestly, and it seems wierd to say, but I think slater is the only one who gets real heat from the crowd after barret. The others are kinda just there, but the crowd dislikes them for just being part of the nexus.

    Personally I thought they got heat because they clobbered everyone (including Hart, McMahon and Steamboat) not because they targeted the very top. Morrison, Bourne and R-Truth for sure are over with the crowd so I'd think Nexus feuding with them would have helped pushed them.
    Maybe I should have rephrased it as, they had heat because they were IN the top tier matches. I don't know how much heat they got from vince, as I think he was playing a heel when they attacked him, and steamboat's beatdown people seem to forget about. Much less with hart gone, people probably forget about that too.

    I do think that fighting the nexus would help those guys somewhat, but just as with whenever the nexus splits up, it will ultimately be up to their solo careers to determine their success. And as of right now, Morrison looks to be a lot higher than he would have gotten if he was in that area. Plus a push may be in the works for truth as he just debuted his new entrance music.


    For me it's pretty clear.
    WWE title hunt - Orton, Sheamus, Cena, Edge and or Jericho.
    Middle tier - Nexus vs Bourne, Morrison, R-Truth, Hart Dynasty, the Miz, Edge and or Jericho etc.
    I understand that, however sheamus has barely been on the shows at ALL because of waiting out HHH's return. I figured either way the trend would continue and thus those WWE title hunt contenders would be in the us scene.

    Plus as a small note jericho's contract expires in a week or two, so they might not be able to count on him.

    Oh look I understand why the WWE is using Cena the way they are. I just object to it because they're putting their merchandising interests so far above keeping the fans who tune in to watch wrestling happy.
    Well, I have two things to say on the matter. For one, its the merchandising interests he does thats able to make it so the other wrestlers/shows can exist to give us great wrestlers.

    Second, better it be him then a group of faces whos characters are turned to be in favor of kids. This way, even if the maximum amount of cena is shown on raw (about a half hour), if the other wrestlers are so much better than him their wrestling should cover well over the time he took up.

    At least for me, its just a win/win situation since I can enjoy a cena match, which I realize is rare among many people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Well, I think that the one thing we can truly agree on. The problem for me was two things. First, everyone knows wrestling is fake, but watches it to get absorbed into their crazy world, then when somebody from the real world steps in it kind of reminds you of what your watching. Second, as you mentioned, they had to fit them into some storyline, and they had to play the same face who screws over orton or miz.
    Yep, definitely agree with that.

    Well in addition to that real world intruding on the wrestling world thing I was often wishing something would fall on the people they picked. So few of them were any good on the microphone or convincing full stop.

    And yeah the typical heel actions that help build a feud because the face can't get back at them (run ins, distractions, etc) went out the window so that stuffed that.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I like the idea, its just to me the nexus was great because this was something we never seen before, thus them doing something of a typical monster might deter from that. Not to mention, that just makes them sore losers, and wouldn't make them much of a threat title wise.
    We've seen big stables before (4 Horsemen, NWO, Evolution) so the only thing I found that was new about Nexus was that they were all a bunch of young guys who hadn't done anything yet.

    I'm sorry but there you're missing the point. They seem like less of a threat each time they get beaten, which they have to be now and then, unless the person who beats them snatches a win from the jaws of defeat (ie a quick roll up).
    To maintain their level of threat they have to seem like they were either just beaten by a move from a more experienced wrestler in a match they should have won, or by making group beat downs in retribution. Is it formulaic? Of course, but it's the only way they can continue to seem like a threat.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    As far as heat goes, it is hard to judge though. First you have to take into account they are an entire group, as opposed to one person. Then its a matter if its barret(who is obviously the leader and does the most talking) is the one getting the heat, or if its the others included.
    Well the entire group gets nearly booed out of the arena when the show starts with them in the ring or when they hit the ring to beat someone down. So in my opinion they're all over.

    Barrett definitely gets the most heat since he's the brains behind Nexus - although I'm starting to dislike how Nexus is becoming more his enforcers rather than a group with the aim of stealing the spotlight. But then western culture is fixated on this idea of a leader within a group rather then a collective group.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Honestly, and it seems wierd to say, but I think slater is the only one who gets real heat from the crowd after barret. The others are kinda just there, but the crowd dislikes them for just being part of the nexus.
    I'd have to agree Slater gets a lot of heat, I rather liked him comparing himself to Edge cause there is a similarity in looks between them.
    I think Otunga also cops a lot of heat too, cause he's a good talker as well as fairly solid in the ring it.
    After that only Gabriel really gets a lot of it because his 450 Splash is the last move within a group beat down by Nexus.

    Tarver seems more like the odd man out in Nexus right now for me, he's not a good talker and we haven't seen much of him.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Maybe I should have rephrased it as, they had heat because they were IN the top tier matches. I don't know how much heat they got from vince, as I think he was playing a heel when they attacked him, and steamboat's beatdown people seem to forget about. Much less with hart gone, people probably forget about that too.
    I dunno, fans generally boo heel groups who attack only attack en mass when the odds are firmly in their favour.

    Still I suppose Nexus has gained a lot out of attacking the top tier. My objection is that the top tier didn't respond as a group; they were led by Cena, which makes their win seem like Cena's win.

    My way to do it would have been:
    Week 1 - The top tier, or the team we saw at Summerslam, emerged from the back while Nexus was gloating and delivered a Nexus style beat down.
    Week 2 - The team spends time explaining that they'd all suffered at the hands of Nexus and united against a common threat.
    Weeks 3 & 4 - Tension unfolds between the team as Nexus retaliates and makes the more cowardly ones feel threatened.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I do think that fighting the nexus would help those guys somewhat, but just as with whenever the nexus splits up, it will ultimately be up to their solo careers to determine their success. And as of right now, Morrison looks to be a lot higher than he would have gotten if he was in that area. Plus a push may be in the works for truth as he just debuted his new entrance music.
    That is certainly true. A group feud could elevate these guys but they have to capitalise on it.

    I think we're getting ahead of ourselves by talking about when Nexus breaks up, they should be looking at breaking them up in around December at the earliest. Nexus needs a lot more matches and effort put into them to get the 3-4 main eventers out of the group that they could get if they do things right.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I understand that, however sheamus has barely been on the shows at ALL because of waiting out HHH's return. I figured either way the trend would continue and thus those WWE title hunt contenders would be in the us scene.
    Sheamus has been underused and I think that's a shame, cause he's got everything you need to be a champion - he's a decent (not great but decent) talker with a solid wrestling style.
    And I do wish they'd decide what they're doing with HHH.
    I don't see any reason why just cause those guys are out of the WWE title hunt why they have to go into the US hunt.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Plus as a small note jericho's contract expires in a week or two, so they might not be able to count on him.
    That's certainly true. It'll be a bit of a mixed reaction if he goes I think: we're sick to death of hearing "I am the best in the world at what I do" but Jericho is one of the greats.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Well, I have two things to say on the matter. For one, its the merchandising interests he does thats able to make it so the other wrestlers/shows can exist to give us great wrestlers.
    Ehem, I think you're overstating Cena's impact on the bottom line here.
    He sells stuff but he doesn't provide the WWE with the money it needs to operate. Other faces, generic merchandise, tours and shows all contribute a lot more combined then he does.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Second, better it be him then a group of faces whos characters are turned to be in favor of kids. This way, even if the maximum amount of cena is shown on raw (about a half hour), if the other wrestlers are so much better than him their wrestling should cover well over the time he took up.

    At least for me, its just a win/win situation since I can enjoy a cena match, which I realize is rare among many people.
    Again I disagree. I'd much rather the WWE put time and effort into pushing Morrison, R-Truth, Christian etc even if it edited their characters a bit to make them more kid friendly.

    I think Cena gets a lot more airtime then that. Plus even if he's not in the main event he's still pushed as the #1 guy on RAW, and he ALWAYS ends up beating everyone else in the end (Edge, Jericho, Orton, HHH, HBK, JBL, The Miz, etc).
    That undermines the guys who can actually wrestle and annoys wrestling fans cause Cena still emerges on top.

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    We've seen big stables before (4 Horsemen, NWO, Evolution) so the only thing I found that was new about Nexus was that they were all a bunch of young guys who hadn't done anything yet.
    Yes, but unlike most of those groups, its a 7, originally 8 man group. With all of them being pushed equally(besides barret, but he won NXT). Most of the other groups would just have a few people with their own agendas, and in NWO's case(well, what I can remember, I was like 7 or 8 years old at the time) had people constantly changing sides and it was a mess.

    I'm sorry but there you're missing the point. They seem like less of a threat each time they get beaten, which they have to be now and then, unless the person who beats them snatches a win from the jaws of defeat (ie a quick roll up).
    To maintain their level of threat they have to seem like they were either just beaten by a move from a more experienced wrestler in a match they should have won, or by making group beat downs in retribution. Is it formulaic? Of course, but it's the only way they can continue to seem like a threat.
    But at the cost of all the experienced wrestlers? Keep in mind NOTHING seperates them from when they were rookies on NXT and being on raw now, besides being in a group, which, once again, means the group is getting over. Which is why I said the group was a success and I liked it, but now is the time for them to be getting over seperately. Yes, I do realize being part of the nexus helps them, but if they need it to get over, then that means they will all be heels, and we already have enough of them on RAW.

    I think Otunga also cops a lot of heat too, cause he's a good talker as well as fairly solid in the ring it.
    I kinda have to agree with what barret said in their final NXT promo against each other, and thats that people say otunga has good mic skills because he has no other quality to latch on to. I wanted to like him, but he so god damn boring in the ring its ridiculous. It doesn't help his finisher just looks like he is sloppily pushing them.

    Tarver seems more like the odd man out in Nexus right now for me, he's not a good talker and we haven't seen much of him.
    I would say he is the best talker in the nexus, as he brings energy the nexus desperately needs in their promos. He isn't good in the ring, but his look and attitude work perfect for someone to simply do the dirty work of the nexus, and nothing more.

    I think we're getting ahead of ourselves by talking about when Nexus breaks up, they should be looking at breaking them up in around December at the earliest. Nexus needs a lot more matches and effort put into them to get the 3-4 main eventers out of the group that they could get if they do things right.
    Agreed, they do need more matches, I just wish it started happening about a month ago as if half of them one their matches it would keep them as a threat.


    Sheamus has been underused and I think that's a shame, cause he's got everything you need to be a champion - he's a decent (not great but decent) talker with a solid wrestling style.
    And I do wish they'd decide what they're doing with HHH.
    Exactly, he has everything he NEEDS, but nothing more than that. I do like to read a lot of the interviews he does because he really does seem like someone who has worked to get where he is, I just think he needs more signature moves, and some kind of twist to his character besides being white and living the celtic way.

    I don't see any reason why just cause those guys are out of the WWE title hunt why they have to go into the US hunt.
    Because with exception of the nexus storyline, I doubt the ability of the raw writers to make any good storylines, especially when two of thoes are edge and jericho. There must be something that makes the writers want to write 80 storylines about those two.

    Ehem, I think you're overstating Cena's impact on the bottom line here.
    He sells stuff but he doesn't provide the WWE with the money it needs to operate. Other faces, generic merchandise, tours and shows all contribute a lot more combined then he does.
    Even I would like to say so, but then again, if it were true, theres no reason WWE would do it. Really, we could debate it all we want, but I think WWE knows there sales better than either you or I ever could.

    Again I disagree. I'd much rather the WWE put time and effort into pushing Morrison, R-Truth, Christian etc even if it edited their characters a bit to make them more kid friendly.
    I'm not so sure I would exactly want to see that. Not too many of the current storylines on any show are "must see", and if they had to make them more kid friendly it would just dum down the storylines even more.

    I personally watch wrestling for those few phenomenal skits/matches, such as the daniel bryan/michael cole feud on NXT(and I hated bryan danielson in roh or pwg). Its why the new ECW was probably my favorite wrestling show all together.

    And really, could they make any of those mentioned any MORE kid friendly? I mean...

    Morrison puts shades on the kids and does ridiculous acrobatic stunts for no reason.

    R-truth sings for them.

    And christian does cheesy jokes practically stolen from a third grader to insult his opponents.

    I think Cena gets a lot more airtime then that.
    More than a half hour? MAYBE with commercials, but still, matches these days almost never go over 10 minutes, and promos usually don't go over 5. Even if he is in the main event and its longer than 10 minutes, it usually doesn't matter since raw goes over 5-10 minutes every week anyways.


    Plus even if he's not in the main event he's still pushed as the #1 guy on RAW, and he ALWAYS ends up beating everyone else in the end (Edge, Jericho, Orton, HHH, HBK, JBL, The Miz, etc).
    Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else, but weren't you the one who said the face almost always goes over no matter what in straight up feud. Randy going over Kingston is the only example that goes against it in recent memory.

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    Earliy NoC Predictions

    Barrett
    Miz
    Kane
    Show
    Dolph
    Who ever the Hart dynasty faces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Yes, but unlike most of those groups, its a 7, originally 8 man group. With all of them being pushed equally(besides barret, but he won NXT). Most of the other groups would just have a few people with their own agendas, and in NWO's case(well, what I can remember, I was like 7 or 8 years old at the time) had people constantly changing sides and it was a mess.
    Well my main point was that big stables aren't new.

    Nexus' distinctions come from:
    A) The sheer size of the original stable - although now at 5 members they're not really that much bigger then the average stable.
    B) The fact that they were all "complete unknowns" who've banded together rather than established stars banding together (eg the Four Horsemen) or one or two current stars taking some unknowns under their wing (eg Evolution).


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    But at the cost of all the experienced wrestlers? Keep in mind NOTHING seperates them from when they were rookies on NXT and being on raw now, besides being in a group, which, once again, means the group is getting over. Which is why I said the group was a success and I liked it, but now is the time for them to be getting over seperately. Yes, I do realize being part of the nexus helps them, but if they need it to get over, then that means they will all be heels, and we already have enough of them on RAW.
    I must disagree, all this angle has done for them is introduce them to the crowd and give them a little momentum. It hasn't finished what I would consider the job of the angle: making them all stars who can run off into their own individual programs and not quickly falter and vanish.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I kinda have to agree with what barret said in their final NXT promo against each other, and thats that people say otunga has good mic skills because he has no other quality to latch on to. I wanted to like him, but he so god damn boring in the ring its ridiculous. It doesn't help his finisher just looks like he is sloppily pushing them.
    Otunga doesn't strike me as any worse in the ring then say Sheffield, who's another enforcer type, so the mic helps him out. His finisher could be better, but still as someone who doesn't find the AA exciting I don't really think of it as any worse than others around at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I would say he is the best talker in the nexus, as he brings energy the nexus desperately needs in their promos. He isn't good in the ring, but his look and attitude work perfect for someone to simply do the dirty work of the nexus, and nothing more.
    Whereas I'd say Barret and Otunga are the best talkers, Traver strikes me as being too energetic on the mic - what he says just runs out, there's little thought behind it.

    But then it might be a me thing, because I prefer slow deliberate speech particularly in menacing non-monster heels.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Agreed, they do need more matches, I just wish it started happening about a month ago as if half of them one their matches it would keep them as a threat.
    They definitely need more matches, I'd say at least 3 of them should be in matches each week.

    And they've seemed like less of a threat ever since that loss they suffered because the night after they only won two matches by pinfall, all the others were won by count out and since then they've only won that elimination match (and mainly cause Edge and Jericho walked out).


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Exactly, he has everything he NEEDS, but nothing more than that. I do like to read a lot of the interviews he does because he really does seem like someone who has worked to get where he is, I just think he needs more signature moves, and some kind of twist to his character besides being white and living the celtic way.
    He could do with a slightly wider move set and more airtime.
    I think the Celtic Warrior element has been kinda de-pushed, or at least its no longer drawn to it and that does make him less interesting.

    This continuing tread of more signature move being put together into sets is something that concerns me (since they've set one for Orton, who is a far better wrestler then he's usually allowed to show he is) so I'm glad to see Sheamus hasn't been been put into that category.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Because with exception of the nexus storyline, I doubt the ability of the raw writers to make any good storylines, especially when two of thoes are edge and jericho. There must be something that makes the writers want to write 80 storylines about those two.
    Not quite sure how this is suppose to relate to that they should go into the US title hunt if they're not in the WWE title hunt...

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Even I would like to say so, but then again, if it were true, theres no reason WWE would do it. Really, we could debate it all we want, but I think WWE knows there sales better than either you or I ever could.
    Well here's a case of where they should pay attention to 50% + of their fans rather than their wallets.

    I'd be pretty sure that while Cena might be the biggest single seller the WWE's got but I'm sure has heck they make a LOT more money from the other guys and their shows combined then from Cena. Further I'm certain they wouldn't be in trouble if he had to retire tomorrow, so to me it's just greed.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I'm not so sure I would exactly want to see that. Not too many of the current storylines on any show are "must see", and if they had to make them more kid friendly it would just dum down the storylines even more.

    I personally watch wrestling for those few phenomenal skits/matches, such as the daniel bryan/michael cole feud on NXT(and I hated bryan danielson in roh or pwg). Its why the new ECW was probably my favorite wrestling show all together.

    And really, could they make any of those mentioned any MORE kid friendly? I mean...

    Morrison puts shades on the kids and does ridiculous acrobatic stunts for no reason.

    R-truth sings for them.

    And christian does cheesy jokes practically stolen from a third grader to insult his opponents.
    Would you prefer to watch kid friendly storylines with someone who can wrestle or with Cena? I know which I'd prefer, every time without hesitation.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    More than a half hour? MAYBE with commercials, but still, matches these days almost never go over 10 minutes, and promos usually don't go over 5. Even if he is in the main event and its longer than 10 minutes, it usually doesn't matter since raw goes over 5-10 minutes every week anyways.
    He always seems to take over the whole show in my opinion. Maybe in my eyes he gets that much time because of how much he's talked about, how long his promos (sometimes two in one match) take and that he's always involved in ring action.

    I'd just like him to get less attention for a 4-6 month period, just down to the amount of attention people in the upper mid-card get.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Perhaps I'm thinking of someone else, but weren't you the one who said the face almost always goes over no matter what in straight up feud. Randy going over Kingston is the only example that goes against it in recent memory.
    Ehem, I was talking about auto-win Cena, not overall trends. Cena has won almost every feud he's been engaged in for the last 4 years or so and the lion's share of them have been for the WWE or WHC title.
    Frankly Kofi won that feud, okay Orton did pin him in that triple threat that basically ended the feud but that was more about getting Orton into the title hunt for a moment then the overall feud in which Kingston consistently ended up looking way stronger then Orton.

    Speaking of Kingston, excellent match between him and Swagger (who got chants) on Smackdown. While the Kane vs Taker storyline is actually holding interest, looking forward to seeing where it goes.

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    I must disagree, all this angle has done for them is introduce them to the crowd and give them a little momentum. It hasn't finished what I would consider the job of the angle: making them all stars who can run off into their own individual programs and not quickly falter and vanish.
    I realize this, but I really think the way they are heading now they will be fine anyway. I personally don't really think any of the Nexus, possibly besides slater and barret, are really star material at all, especially when you consider who they are overshadowing currently(zach ryder, yoshi tatsu, santino, primo, bourne).


    Otunga doesn't strike me as any worse in the ring then say Sheffield, who's another enforcer type, so the mic helps him out. His finisher could be better, but still as someone who doesn't find the AA exciting I don't really think of it as any worse than others around at the moment.
    Well, I think sheffield is a better wrestler. If only for him doing the backpack stunner as a finsher, but in addition he is a heck of alot more agile for a man his size, and just a lot of his FCW stuff impressed me more than the multitude of headlocks from otunga.

    This continuing tread of more signature move being put together into sets is something that concerns me (since they've set one for Orton, who is a far better wrestler then he's usually allowed to show he is) so I'm glad to see Sheamus hasn't been been put into that category.
    Eh, I'm fine with it. Since they have quicker matches nowdays, the only people who really get over, get over because people memorize them and their moves. Its unfortunate, but people like Kidd, bourne, and Kaval who do new moves I've never seen before in every single match just don't build up that type of reputation.

    Also, it simply helps for making the match not get slow. Orton knows how to bust them out at intervals of the match, and the rest in between is filler, but sheamus just has few at the end and thats it. Unless you count the fiery red hand as one that is.

    Not quite sure how this is suppose to relate to that they should go into the US title hunt if they're not in the WWE title hunt...
    Yeah, guess I did get a little off track. I just meant that I couldn't see either jericho or edge in the heavyweight seen because of that, unless it was a triangle feud.

    Well here's a case of where they should pay attention to 50% + of their fans rather than their wallets.

    I'd be pretty sure that while Cena might be the biggest single seller the WWE's got but I'm sure has heck they make a LOT more money from the other guys and their shows combined then from Cena. Further I'm certain they wouldn't be in trouble if he had to retire tomorrow, so to me it's just greed.
    I certainly have more to say on this, but as mentioned, unless we had the figures of the sales(which I have looked for, but to no avail), neither of us can really prove our points.

    I do know Jeff hardy was there big seller by far before, but now that he's gone I really have to assume cena at least beats everyone individually. I mean, who elses shirt are you going to buy, Jey uso's?


    Would you prefer to watch kid friendly storylines with someone who can wrestle or with Cena? I know which I'd prefer, every time without hesitation.
    As mentioned before, I wouldn't have to prefer either of them when I get both of those things with cena, but as of right now Christian has been boring as heck in the ring, r-truth has slowed down since his groin injury, and morrison is already getting a push and having great matches. And those are just the ones I mentioned, there are plenty more like them I could mention.

    But I suppose to just simply answer your question, no I wouldn't really want to see morrison talk about things sheamus's skin tone is like, call him a doo-doo head and then have a great match. The promo sets up the entire match, so even if they match is good, it ends up achieving nothing.

    Frankly Kofi won that feud, okay Orton did pin him in that triple threat that basically ended the feud but that was more about getting Orton into the title hunt for a moment then the overall feud in which Kingston consistently ended up looking way stronger then Orton.
    Perhaps my knowledge is off, but didn't the kofi and orton feud end with a singles match? I remember kofi hitting the trouble in Paradise to ortons arms, paralyzing them for a second only to be hit by a RKO.

    Speaking of Kingston, excellent match between him and Swagger (who got chants) on Smackdown. While the Kane vs Taker storyline is actually holding interest, looking forward to seeing where it goes.
    Long, boring submission-fest that just starts to pick up at the end doesn't equal a good match. I like both contestants, but both have been off their game lately.

    To me its been the story of Smackdown for the past few months, storylines progressing at a snails pace, and nothing is EVER suprising or really that interesting.

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    If you think Christian is boring in the ring then I have no ideal how you watch Cena wrestle......Christian is the last bit of attitude we have left.........Matt Hardy needs a push...>.>

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    Quote Originally Posted by jb08045 View Post
    If you think Christian is boring in the ring then I have no ideal how you watch Cena wrestle......Christian is the last bit of attitude we have left.........Matt Hardy needs a push...>.>
    ...So you want to watcht the same match over and over again.

    The opponent's outside the ring, I wonder what he'll do, oh wait he just jumped off the second turnbuckle to the outside like always.

    The opponent is sitting up, flashbang.

    He is on the second turnbuckle, flashbang.

    He is on the top turnbuckle, missle dropkick.

    He is in the corner, opponent runs at him, he dodges and hits with his feet.

    Crowds not into it, start some stupid clapping.

    Never, ever, hit the killswitch on the first try.

    Don't get me wrong, as I clearly mentioned in my previous post he has only been bad recently, but if your going to look at a veteran who is consistantly adding more to his repetoir and putting on great matches, I would look no further than goldust.

    Christian to me, is what other people think of cena, horrible comedy with the same moveset. And as great as you interjecting with little comments and videos is, could you actually back up your comments of your cena hate like Night Walker does?

    Lastly, do we really need anyone from the attitude era? It was by far the worst era of wrestling overall. What it did for wrestling I appreciate, but the star power of Stone cold and rock with the wrestling talents of people like edge and christian don't make up for scotty 2 hotty, gangrel, al snow and the rest of that crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I realize this, but I really think the way they are heading now they will be fine anyway. I personally don't really think any of the Nexus, possibly besides slater and barret, are really star material at all, especially when you consider who they are overshadowing currently(zach ryder, yoshi tatsu, santino, primo, bourne).
    Well we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, because I think they all need the angle to continue to build them up a bit more and I think at least Gabriel will also be big (he can talk and he's excellent in the ring).
    Um, Ryder and Bourne I'll agree need way more attention then they're getting but I don't see much in Tatsu or Primo... and the less said about Santino, in my opinion, the better.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Well, I think sheffield is a better wrestler. If only for him doing the backpack stunner as a finsher, but in addition he is a heck of alot more agile for a man his size, and just a lot of his FCW stuff impressed me more than the multitude of headlocks from otunga.
    Both Sheffield and Otunga strike me as being in the same "enforcer" mould, like for example Batista.

    I'll have to say I haven't seen much of them cause I don't watch NXT and we don't get FCW in Australia, from what I have seen they both seem roughly the same wrestling wise but Otunga is better on the mic.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Eh, I'm fine with it. Since they have quicker matches nowdays, the only people who really get over, get over because people memorize them and their moves. Its unfortunate, but people like Kidd, bourne, and Kaval who do new moves I've never seen before in every single match just don't build up that type of reputation.

    Also, it simply helps for making the match not get slow. Orton knows how to bust them out at intervals of the match, and the rest in between is filler, but sheamus just has few at the end and thats it. Unless you count the fiery red hand as one that is.
    I dislike "moves of doom" sequences intensely because it makes the match more obviously formulaic.

    I've always hated the Cena set and that's part of why I really dislike the fact that Orton's been made to do it now because his prior spontaneity was his strength - I understand move sets change as you get older but I don't like knowing pretty much exactly what moves Orton will hit to end a match in the exact order they do come...


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I certainly have more to say on this, but as mentioned, unless we had the figures of the sales(which I have looked for, but to no avail), neither of us can really prove our points.

    I do know Jeff hardy was there big seller by far before, but now that he's gone I really have to assume cena at least beats everyone individually. I mean, who elses shirt are you going to buy, Jey uso's?
    I'm sorry but it's irrelevant how much Cena sells. No matter what his figures are it is a simple fact that there is no way that he is the sole guy keeping the WWE in the black and him being shoved out there like he is doing that is what annoys me.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    As mentioned before, I wouldn't have to prefer either of them when I get both of those things with cena, but as of right now Christian has been boring as heck in the ring, r-truth has slowed down since his groin injury, and morrison is already getting a push and having great matches. And those are just the ones I mentioned, there are plenty more like them I could mention.

    But I suppose to just simply answer your question, no I wouldn't really want to see morrison talk about things sheamus's skin tone is like, call him a doo-doo head and then have a great match. The promo sets up the entire match, so even if they match is good, it ends up achieving nothing.

    You're forgetting a key difference: they can wrestle - Cena can't. At least if these guys are keeping the kids happy the wrestling fans get something.

    How has Christian been boring lately? He's been winning matches with some good technical moves not just his existing move-set.



    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Perhaps my knowledge is off, but didn't the kofi and orton feud end with a singles match? I remember kofi hitting the trouble in Paradise to ortons arms, paralyzing them for a second only to be hit by a RKO.
    Nope. It stopped in a #1 contenders triple threat match between Orton, Cena and Kingston that Orton won by pinning Kingston (2 wins to Kingston, 3 to Orton).
    But leaving that aside Kingston got more out of the feud then Orton did (it pushed him from your average mid carder to someone who definitely belongs at the top) and he always looked the stronger. When you consider who won a feud its not just who won the most matches, it has to do with what story was told.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Long, boring submission-fest that just starts to pick up at the end doesn't equal a good match. I like both contestants, but both have been off their game lately.
    Completely disagree here, and this might explain our overall disagreement.

    We need a lot more matches like this. There was a solid story within it, the two men's differing styles meshing well and lots of counters. It was more about wrestling then just some quick entertainment hit that you forget about within half an hour.
    Their technical skills were on show and the crowd loved it: "Let's go Kofi" vs "Let's go Swagger" chants.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    To me its been the story of Smackdown for the past few months, storylines progressing at a snails pace, and nothing is EVER suprising or really that interesting.
    Personally I've found Smackdown better then RAW because they're not just tearing along with 2 month long feuds.
    Last edited by Night_Walker; 20th September 2010 at 6:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Night_Walker View Post
    Um, Ryder and Bourne I'll agree need way more attention then they're getting but I don't see much in Tatsu or Primo... and the less said about Santino, in my opinion, the better.
    Tatsu obviously needs to work on english, but from what I've read he only came here a year or two ago so he is doing pretty decent, and if you did watch the new ecw when it was on his matches with christian for the title were some of the coolest matches I've seen.

    And definately primo, this guy can literally wrestle better than 80-90% of the roster, and is doing an AMAZING job being a heel considering he has literally gotten no character developement for it at all.

    Lastly, its hard to judge santino. He has played a comedic role his entire career, but at the same time there have been nights that he has gotten over more than ANYONE on the show, so I would say he has done a phenomenal job.

    I'll have to say I haven't seen much of them cause I don't watch NXT and we don't get FCW in Australia, from what I have seen they both seem roughly the same wrestling wise but Otunga is better on the mic.
    I don't get FCW either, but I watched one or two episodes online, and with what I seen on NXT I can assume Sheffield is better. However, its not like what they do right no doesn't count, so I would say your opinion isn't far off.

    I'm sorry but it's irrelevant how much Cena sells. No matter what his figures are it is a simple fact that there is no way that he is the sole guy keeping the WWE in the black and him being shoved out there like he is doing that is what annoys me.
    I hate to keep arguing over something we can't prove as I mentioned before. However, merchandise is one thing, but ratings are another, and thats were the money is really to be made.

    Honestly, when I was in school there were some casual fans I was talking to and all the time they would say stuff like, "I just tune in to see the guest host", and thought, man, what kind of stuff do these people like? And really, when you go to live events you see the type of people who actually watch it, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people did tune out just because cena is not there.

    As mentioned, I do think WWE does want to get cena out of the limelight, but there is just no one who can replace him now. I think they were building up kofi well to be the next cena, but then dropped his push, and now he is feuding with the intercontinental champion on WWE's #2 show. Randy is the closest thing to it, and no matter how many ridiculous rkos he gets people cheer for 3 seconds and then die out.

    You're forgetting a key difference: they can wrestle - Cena can't. At least if these guys are keeping the kids happy the wrestling fans get something.
    Its kind of hard to forget something I don't even believe in. I don't see cena just standing there when people hit him, and I don't see him tripping in the ring when he is running, he is as good as a wrestler as I would ever need to see. Plus his wrestling style, overplayed to some, regardless is a style thats easy to get behind, and as mentioned is that of every other big face like shawn michaels, hogan, and the undertaker, its nothing crazy.

    How has Christian been boring lately? He's been winning matches with some good technical moves not just his existing move-set.
    Read my previous post to the other guy. He's been introducing just as many new moves as cena is right now. And he annoyingly always has some damn hand injury every match that he oversells.

    Nope. It stopped in a #1 contenders triple threat match between Orton, Cena and Kingston that Orton won by pinning Kingston (2 wins to Kingston, 3 to Orton).
    But leaving that aside Kingston got more out of the feud then Orton did (it pushed him from your average mid carder to someone who definitely belongs at the top) and he always looked the stronger. When you consider who won a feud its not just who won the most matches, it has to do with what story was told.
    Would like to say I agree, but right now one person is at the bottom of the smackdown card and the other is seemingly stronger than every other wrestler combined on RAW.

    We need a lot more matches like this. There was a solid story within it, the two men's differing styles meshing well and lots of counters. It was more about wrestling then just some quick entertainment hit that you forget about within half an hour.
    Their technical skills were on show and the crowd loved it: "Let's go Kofi" vs "Let's go Swagger" chants.
    You misunderstand, I love longer matches, but I also like when they don't center around swagger wrapping his legs around kofi's back for 3 minutes at at time.

    First of all, I think your overestimating how much the crowd was into it, whenever they were, it was because they were just plain sick of swagger doing more submissions, not because they were doing anyting great.

    Second, its not really a good thing they got a lets go swagger chant going, he is a heel.

    Personally I've found Smackdown better then RAW because they're not just tearing along with 2 month long feuds.
    Not really, its completely the opposite. Smackdown was having kofi vs. ziggler # 8, undertaker still feuding with kane, alberto del rio stiil talking about beating up Rey Mysterio, mcintyre and Cody still don't know if they should team up or not.

    Raw has introduced daniel bryan vs. Miz and gotten miz over as a heel again, along with bryan as face. Introduced new angles between edge/ryder, jericho/contract/gm, sheamus/entire 6 pack challenge, and morrison as a top tier contender.

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