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Thread: The Official WWE Thread, Brother!

  1. #6601
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Reigns I'm fairly certain will get a big push very soon, and it will be seen that he doesn't offer a whole lot of anything beyond what his push gave him. The Ryback story, part 2.
    Except Reigns has a much better look, better moveset, and better mic skills. Not that he probably won't take off with the push they have in store for him, but comparing him to someone who not only had barely anything new to offer but is even worse than nearly all of their other big guys isn't exactly a fair comparison.

    I guess they just can't be bothered to care about anyone other than their top guys... I mean when was the last time anyone here ever really cared about what was going on in the divas division or in the midcard/tag team segments?

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    If anything, Dolph's mic skills are generic and he's not gonna light the world on fire, though he's got a likable personality is more of a witty remark kind of guy. Still good enough for his skill set to put him in an upper card slot or even transitional champion when it's needed. People have recognized that (honestly it should have happened at least somewhat in conjunction with his fighting Cena at the end of 2012, that was a pretty good match).

    On 3 man team titles, heck no. Just bring back the freebird rule, damn it. Carrying the story of 3 guys is just asking for disasters or booking relating omissions. 2 on 2 has been an enduring formula for 50 years, no need to change it up. If a stable gets the title, allow for the freebird rule to take place as needed, it's honestly pretty fun to watch. Imagine if instead of having the US title, Ambrose actually substituted in for Rollins or Reigns? By some miracle 3MB are transitional heel champions, you end up with them passing the titles between each other for defenses for the heck of it and they get exposure? Don't need a special 3 man title, just use something that's been in the industry for the better part of 30 years.

    Honestly, the Wyatts are getting cheered because they are on the opposite end of the Cena equation. I mean they are tweeners, but easily more on the Heel side. Bray has fantastic story telling skills, and Harper is a beast in the ring. Add in they actually found a niche for Rowan with the sheep mask, and it works. Backwoods cult creepy is always a formula for heel (which they should be leaning to more than faces) much like Dean Ambrose looks way more like a heel than a face despite the turn, he still screams heel, just he doesn't give a ****.

    I don't mind if they fire Rosa Mendes, Cameron, or Eva Marie, but Namoi, Layla, and at least Brie are athletic enough to go in the ring if they actually cared about booking them in a real match. Really do think her being with Daniel Bryan is probably a great thing for her in the long run if she really takes to wrestling and not in it as much for the money. Rest are just pretty average as well.

    Also, THE BAD GUY is in the Hall Of Fame chicos. Honestly been waiting forever now to say that, but I can't wait to see Razor Ramon in the HOF. Now if we can get Macho Man and Owen Hart in it, I'll be happy. DDP also is probably really deserving of a spot for how he rose as a "people's champ" in WCW, working with a stupid gimmick when WWE bought WCW contracts out, and everything he's done outside of wrestling (i.e. Jake and Scott Hall). Do those three for next year and the HOF is actually looking like a legitimate thing since the induction of Bruno Sammartino.
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    I had no idea so many Divas were still working in WWE. Alicia Fox? Rosa Mendes? Haven't seen them in a long while. Good to see Rosa though. I wonder who the new champ will be after Wrestlemania, or will AJ lee managed to retain?

    RAW last night...was alright. The Boretista, Snoreton and Stephanie segment was meh. They tried to make Boretista the face of that segment I guess, but the WWE audience still don't want him. Does Boretista call the WWE Championship the WW World Title? Maybe I can't tell because his mike was acting up. That did make me laugh and Stephanie made fun of it.

    So Dolph Ziggler, Alberto Del Rio, Christian and Sheamus have been bumped down to feuding for the IC belt. I actually have no problem with that. It raises the profile of the IC belt with former World Champions chasing it. Good for the IC belt. It gets more love then the US belt. Speaking of which the Shield will face Kane and the New Age Outlaws at Wrestlemania 30. I loved their suits. But in the meantime the Shield destroyed the Real Americans and Rybaxel.

    Goldust and Cody Rhodes entered a mini feud with Fandango. It was weird. Big Show vs Titus O'neil also happened. Miz gets punked out by Hulk Hogan and celebrity guest. And Scooby Doo and the Mystery Machine appeared. Hearing the commentators talk about Scooby Doo was...moving on. I will say I do like on the cover of that DVD Triple H has the belt.

    Undertaker and Brock Lesnar ended the night with Taker's classic casket coming to the ring with that eerie mist and music. I'll never get tired of Undertaker doing that. The feuds I'm looking most forward to for mania are John Cena vs Bray Wyatt, Bray has been amazing with his promos. Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar, and Daniel Bryan vs Triple H. I don't even care for the Boretista and Snoreton half. Daniel Bryan vs Triple H is more personal now.

    Scott Hall/Razor Ramon in the Hall of Fame is nice. I was wondering what condition he was in. I hope it's good for the Hall of Fame. I'm glad he's in the Hall of Fame. Triple H, Shawn Micheals, Kevin Nash, or all of them will probably induct him.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celestial phantom
    If anything, Dolph's mic skills are generic and he's not gonna light the world on fire, though he's got a likable personality is more of a witty remark kind of guy. Still good enough for his skill set to put him in an upper card slot or even transitional champion when it's needed. People have recognized that (honestly it should have happened at least somewhat in conjunction with his fighting Cena at the end of 2012, that was a pretty good match).
    The last impression I remember having of Dolph Ziggler was exactly that, and it's the same thought I've had of similar guys like Shelton Benjamin. I can see why people like(d) them, but nothing about either guy seriously stood out to me that I would really want to see them at the top. I haven't seen much of Roman Reigns outside of a Raw match with Punk or that TLC '12 pay-per-view match, so I don't know how good he actually is, but at least he caught my attention right at the beginning (helped that his match was pretty good). I think I could actually grow to be a fan of the guy at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Shuckle View Post
    Except Reigns has a much better look, better moveset, and better mic skills. Not that he probably won't take off with the push they have in store for him, but comparing him to someone who not only had barely anything new to offer but is even worse than nearly all of their other big guys isn't exactly a fair comparison.
    I don't really see how you reached any of those conclusions, except for a better look. Better moveset? He has a completely unbelievable(in the bad way) jumping PUNCH, and a finisher that 8000 people have. Mic skills? I'll reserve judgment, we haven't really seen him do anything beside having nasal problems and yelling **** lol.

    Honestly, the comparisons between Ryback and Reigns are scarily more apparent than I thought when I first mentioned it. I think people forget they were saying all the same things about Ryback(that he could wrestle, had good mic skills, etc), that they are of Reigns now. Combined with strong TLC PPV showings, strong Royal Rumble showings, and a completely unnecessary face/heel turn, its downright scary.

    Either way, I do believe Reigns is just plain mediocre in the ring. Surround yourself with the two best wrestlers in the company and I bet either you or I could look like good wrestlers lol Both of reigns single matches(yes, only two) have been pretty boring.
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    I kind of like the jumping punch... And the spear is everywhere sure but Reigns I think does it best. At the very least it's a lot better than the stupid shellshock.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Honestly, the comparisons between Ryback and Reigns are scarily more apparent than I thought when I first mentioned it. I think people forget they were saying all the same things about Ryback(that he could wrestle, had good mic skills, etc), that they are of Reigns now. Combined with strong TLC PPV showings, strong Royal Rumble showings, and a completely unnecessary face/heel turn, its downright scary.
    True, but still... Ryback at his best still came off as a complete cartoon character. Reigns in comparison seems like the kind of guy who would mug you in a dark alley without a second thought. I'll admit Ryback wasn't bad on the mic at the height of his push, I just having a feeling that with what little mic time Reigns has had he can do better.

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    I still look at the Ryback push and one thing that always stands out to me is when Mick Foley told Ryback that it was only a matter of time before he became champion. That was during Ryback's heel turn. The only title Ryback might possibly get is a US or IC run. Maybe if he's lucky he can get one of those two. Didn't he win a slammy and called himself the future of WWE? Yeah, look where he is now.
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    Back yes, front meh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Shuckle View Post
    Except Reigns has a much better look
    No. You're on point with a lot of what else you said, but Rollins a better look than Ryback? No. Ryback is a legit 10 in Look. Rollins is maybe an 8.5.



    Anyway, Looks like Sting/Undertaker at WM30 is close to being a sure-bet:

    Sting Reportedly Wrestling Just One Singles Match In WWE Before Retiring Next Year
    By Marc Middleton
    Mar 27, 2014 - 8:32:23 AM


    - There is now a working idea within WWE that Sting will wrestle one match and then retire, which everyone presumes will be against The Undertaker at WrestleMania 31 in California.

    There's still no confirmation that WWE will make this known at WrestleMania XXX or on RAW the next night. The only thing that's said to be certain right now is that Sting will do one last match.


    On the topic of Ziggler, he's very good, but not great on the mic. The problem with modern WWE of the last 3 years or so is that, unless you are involved directly in the current main event, world title storyline, no one EVER gets promo time anymore. On the whole, it's hard to judge a lot of peoples' mic skills because they don't get opportunities in the modern era. There are more matches (and better quality matches) than there's been in years, but the storylines have suffered dramatically except for the very top of the card. But I have enjoyed Dolph on occasion. He sometimes gets to be a bit edgier than the rest of the roster and broaches the PG 13 line. I've never thought he was that bad as a lot of you think. He works a LOT better as a heel (despite the fact that the fans LOVE him and want to cheer for him), so right now, he has that working against him. I gave Ziggler an 8 in Charisma, but then, that factors i more than JUST mic skills.
    Last edited by Sid87; 27th March 2014 at 6:31 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid87 View Post
    On the topic of Ziggler, he's very good, but not great on the mic. The problem with modern WWE of the last 3 years or so is that, unless you are involved directly in the current main event, world title storyline, no one EVER gets promo time anymore. On the whole, it's hard to judge a lot of peoples' mic skills because they don't get opportunities in the modern era.
    Agreed, but more important than anything, they just don't give wrestlers anything. You'd never know Christian was one of the most hated heels of time looking at him now. Contrarily Mark Henry was given **** his entire career, and the one 10 minute promo they gave him last year decimated every promo of recent memory.

    He works a LOT better as a heel (despite the fact that the fans LOVE him and want to cheer for him), so right now, he has that working against him.
    To say someone has something working against them, when it's their job, is shortsighted. He's been with the company how many years? And been a face for how long? The dudes has plenty of time to pick up some tips along the way. And honestly, he was a b- heel at best, and that's with vicki guerrero by his side. If you ask me, he'll forever be in limbo. He's too good a wrestler for people to hate, but he's not interesting enough for anyone to go out of their way to back, like Daniel Bryan.

    I gave Ziggler an 8 in Charisma, but then, that factors i more than JUST mic skills.
    But whoever STARTS to get over with anything but mic skills? There are certain in-ring exceptions like maybe Scotty 2 Hotty doing the worm, or Daniel Bryan's backing due to how bad his WM booking was, but mic skills are the be all and end all.(and I'm including backstage/internet promo's in mic skills btw)

    To me, charisma is more than having lots of energy. If that was the case, that one "get hyped" dude from NXT would be WWE World's Heavyweight champion, but just yelling stuff is not the be all end all.
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    Charisma is probably the hardest of the Bret Hart categories to judge, because it encompasses a LOT. There is promo skill, mic skill (NOT the same thing, because some guys excel at interacting with other wrestlers, but aren't as good directly addressing the audience), ability to draw in fans mid-match (usually with theatrics like Reigns' Superman Punch or what have you, but also with general, in-ring, nonspeaking personality like Goldust used to be all about). Speaking of Reigns, he is developing really intense in-ring charisma, but he's a moron on the microphone, so he's a bit hard to judge. Clearly no one thinks "just yelling" is important (or even GOOD) to charisma; there's a lot to judge on when it comes to involving the fans.

    And it's not absurd to recognize some guys work better as a face or a heel. Of course, it's fair to penalize guys on it (the best of all-time like Jericho, Savage, The Rock, and HBK) were fantastic at both. But no one so far as said Ziggler is up there with those guys. A LOT of guys historically have been better at one or the other; it's just natural. It's a bigger exception to be a guy who pulls off both really well. And right now, WWE has Ziggler as a face when he has always worked better as a heel.


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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post

    To me, charisma is more than having lots of energy. If that was the case, that one "get hyped" dude from NXT would be WWE World's Heavyweight champion, but just yelling stuff is not the be all end all.
    You're thinking of Mojo Rawley, and trust me, the day he becomes a well respected/liked champion in this business is the day John Cena is seen competing for the Divas championship (which wouldn't actually be a bad idea, considering the fact that Cena whines as much as an 80yr old gypsy).
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    Batista wears tighter pants than Stephanie. If anyone is going to go after the butterfly belt it's him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid87 View Post
    And it's not absurd to recognize some guys work better as a face or a heel.
    Of course not, but that's why I mentioned that Ziggler wasn't that great as a heel. If there is any high point in Zigglers career to compare stuff to, it would be the very beginning with the "I'm Dolph Ziggler" stint, where he actually had a character and didn't oversell the living heck out of every move.

    I mean, I'm not trying to come off as a Ziggler hater, its just he's overrated so far out of proportion its ridiculous. And virtually everyone from his "class" has done so much more in such less time, like Miz, Morrison, etc.
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    Personally I wish they would give us storylines just for the show and not just to try and sell the next big event. It seems like we always get these match-ups like Undertaker vs Brock Lesnar just for the sake of selling it at the next pay per view on the names alone; not because it's going to make for good TV or an actual interesting/fresh rivalry. They build up all this hype because of who's involved with nothing of substance behind it and then when the event finally rolls around the actual match ends up falling flat in one way or another.

    In other words, I'm looking forward to the Raw after Commercialmania and I'll be glad when the predictable road and said event is finally over with. (Although I'll admit, Taker's entrance never gets old especially with all the extra theatrics.)

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    Is it just me who wishes Taker would of been ABA for this feud? Well I've always wanted him to return to that gimmick since Phenom doesn't really suit this era of WWE, but I think for his match with Brock ABA/Big Evil would of been a lot more fitting for the all out, hard hitting brawl that we'll most likely see, and just the whole programme in general, as I think he'd of also been able to have some better dialogue with Heyman in the build up to Mania than he's free to as the deadman.

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    I could live the rest of my life without having to see the “American Badass” again. Undertaker’s “Phenom” persona is fun and unique, and it has enough of a legacy that's allowed him to remain over no matter what period of time that he's in. Bikertaker really doesn't compare, IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charizardfan View Post
    I could live the rest of my life without having to see the “American Badass” again. Undertaker’s “Phenom” persona is fun and unique, and it has enough of a legacy that's allowed him to remain over no matter what period of time that he's in. Bikertaker really doesn't compare, IMHO.
    I feel that ABA was a good gimmick, that needed to happen for the undertaker gimmick to survive that period of time. With that said, I'd agree that the time has passed and has no use in current WWE.

    On a side note, The Last Ride was one of the coolest finishers ever. It's amazing how just adding a simple twist on a move that hundreds of people have done, can make it look that much more devastating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I feel that ABA was a good gimmick, that needed to happen for the undertaker gimmick to survive that period of time. With that said, I'd agree that the time has passed and has no use in current WWE.

    On a side note, The Last Ride was one of the coolest finishers ever. It's amazing how just adding a simple twist on a move that hundreds of people have done, can make it look that much more devastating.
    I thought I was the only one who liked ABA Undertaker. Yeah it was different, but I enjoyed Undertaker in 2002 as ABA/Big Evil. I don't think it really matters which Undertaker feuds with Brock Lesnar at Wrestlemania though. Taker's streak isn't ending regardless, so it's all good.
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    For me, the undertaker's "american badass" theme was easily my favorite. He basically didn't give a damn about anyone or anything (I remember seeing him chokeslam matt hardy, jeff hardy, and lita within seconds of eachother), he rode a -bleep-ing harley to the ring (which for me, is a good entrance even if you don't do anything to add to it), and his entrance music was tied with scotty 2 hotty's and Xavier Woods' non-ernest the cat miller-esque one as the catchiest of all time. If they did the regular boring as hell/"old school" undertaker against brock, then brought back the american badass for his sting match, that is something that I would watch. Also, here's the entrance music should anyone forget:

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    Of all Undertaker's themes, my favorite would probably be the one he was using when he was tag teaming with Austin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSAKnALtwTY

    Of all his themes as the Bikertaker, it would be his "Big Evil" theme: (EDIT: didn't know you posted it already, Mye. I thought that video was going to be "Rollin'".)

    And for what it's worth, my issue with the ABA isn't that I thought he was bad (though, again, I certainly don't think 2002-4 were his best years; but then again, neither was 1999...). It's that the supernatural character works so much better for me, he stands out more and I find him to be more fun (e.g. that promo he gives to Kane to set up their WrestleMania 14 match). Give me the druids and the caskets over the motorcycle any day.
    Last edited by charizardfan; 29th March 2014 at 3:55 AM.

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    As much as the "mystique" of the supernatural taker is starting to wear off on me over the last few years, it's not wrestlemania without that version of him. The ABA gimmick basically did humanize him even though he was still the Undertaker and still a BA. If it were ABA Taker vs Lesnar, the match would go who has done enough damage and takes the victory. With Supernatural Taker vs Lesnar it's like, has Lesnar actually put the immortal, supernatural Taker down, has his powers finally failed him, or is he just another victim of Taker's power? If I wanted what seems like a brawl with Lesnar/Taker (ABA), I'd just watch a UFC brawl or Boxing match or something similar to it, despite it being these two. ABA did what it did and gave Undertaker something fresh for about 3 years before his return and hiatuses to keep the mystique alive, but I'm not particularly wanting to see it again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by celestial phantom View Post
    As much as the "mystique" of the supernatural taker is starting to wear off on me over the last few years, it's not wrestlemania without that version of him. The ABA gimmick basically did humanize him even though he was still the Undertaker and still a BA. If it were ABA Taker vs Lesnar, the match would go who has done enough damage and takes the victory. With Supernatural Taker vs Lesnar it's like, has Lesnar actually put the immortal, supernatural Taker down, has his powers finally failed him, or is he just another victim of Taker's power? If I wanted what seems like a brawl with Lesnar/Taker (ABA), I'd just watch a UFC brawl or Boxing match or something similar to it, despite it being these two. ABA did what it did and gave Undertaker something fresh for about 3 years before his return and hiatuses to keep the mystique alive, but I'm not particularly wanting to see it again.
    See, for me the whole "supernatural powers" angle of the undertaker is and has been getting boring as of late. Yes, it is the undertaker's only unique quality (aside from the streak, that was basically built from that), but when it starts to seem like a crutch you know it's time to at least change the character a bit. Assuming he doesn't retire this year, it'd be fun to see him do a recap of characters for a few wrestlemanias. Then when he does enter the hall of fame, everyone will be able to enjoy them rather than the few of us over 20.
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    How is Alberto Del Rio still around in ANY capacity that isn't purely "Jobber to the Stars"? He's painfully mediocre.


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