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Thread: The Official WWE Thread, Brother!

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElectiCrow View Post
    Dude, do you like bone off Randy Orton or something??? He's good at his job but WWE is now PG so Vince and co. want to push the company towards younger fans so they use John Cena to try and get them loads of (younger) fans . WWE is also pushing younger superstars now to make sure they've still got main eventers after Randy Orton and John Cena leave.
    Orton is the most talented man in his age group (which should be the group that's main-eventing) within the WWE hence he should be the main-event.

    There's no harm in helping build young talent but if you asked most people who the WWE's top heel is Orton would be right up there.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Man, its blatantly obvious you have NEVER been to a live show with cena there. Cena DESTROYS any one else in terms of popularity. I'll say that a decent amount of it is how WWE pushes cena, but there is no doubt in my mind that if it were up to him Cena is a good enough wrestler and certainly enough of a charasmatic wrestler to keep up the fanfare he has right now. And I don't think you understand, no matter what reaction you see or hear on television, its what products are selling that counts. In that case, I'm pretty sure WWE knows its sales better than you or I ever could.
    I'm an Aussie so yeah I've never been to a live-show. But that's irrelevant, if Cena is SO popular then how come the majority of fans boo him on the shows? If he's so popular it shouldn't matter where he appears.

    Cena is not charismic, what about someone who yells when "intensity" is called for and thinks juvenile toilet-humour is funny is charismatic?


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Then what do you want, every single person in the company to be completely equal? Every person wins and loses as much as the other? Evan bourne wins as much as the big show? No, even kids realize that certain people will be better than others, and if everyone is equal it will lead to complete boredom.

    Not to mention your "less talented" comment was pretty much false. I'm pretty sure kids understand that John cena won't be doing a 450 splash anytime soon, they just treat it so the people with more "experience" have the knowledge to make up for the talent they don't have.
    I want the most talented/able people, the ones who can actually wrestle a main-event without needing a helping hand from others, to be the headline of the show that's all.

    Cena's offence hasn't developed in 4-5 years. He uses the same moves which are all about seeming powerful, sometimes not even bothering to learn how to use them properly (ie the 'hip-toss' that put him on the shelf for 4 months).
    Granted move-sets tend to be limited in the ring but at least people like Jericho, Orton, DiBaise, Undertaker, Edge, Swagger, etc know how to technically perform the move so that it's not all about power, and it's also a move that looks nice.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Wait, so you don't want to WWE to model itself after one person with your previous comments on john cena, but you do want them to with someone else(who would basically become what you said as if the company modeled itself after him he would have to look better than everyone else)?
    My point about Orton being the future of the WWE is that right now I'd argue the WWE is built around HHH, HBK & Undertaker.
    Orton is one of the people who will be one of those cornerstones of the WWE in years to come once HHH, HBK and Undertaker have retired (if he isn't one of the cornerstones already)- he's the right age, he's got the talent and ability, he's massively over (even as a heel).

    Cena simply doesn't strike me as someone the WWE can use as a cornerstone.

    So yeah it annoys me to have Orton made out as weak and cowardly when he's as vital to the company as their big names.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Two things, one, they aren't pushing anybody in that respect besides Sheamus. Second, the new people they are getting right now are to replace HHH, shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Jericho, Batista, etc. Randy Orton and Cena are more part of the new superstars if anything. Sure they may be established already, but they are still young as heck, and won't be leaving anytime soon.
    Okay... if they're not still pushing Cena why was he Superstar of the Year? Why has he hardly been away from the Main-Event except when he's been injured for the last 4-5 years?
    Orton's spent time in the mid-card between title runs and main-event fueds but Cena's barely ever there.

    I won't argue Cena and Orton that are definitely still young (32 and 29 respectively) but I think Orton is a current cornerstone wrestler for the company. I'd say Swagger, MVP, Benjamin, Morrison, MacIntyre will eventually join him when HHH HBK and Taker (with supporting guys like Jericho) retire. I don't see Cena as possessing those same traits.

  2. #102
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    It sucks cause of Cena ever since 05. If Cena would just go heel it could get a little better heck they still have DX to make some money with.

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  3. #103
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    WWE is the most succesful wrestling entertainment business and
    it's way better then TNA for example in my eyes. They don't even have a 'normal' ring with 4 corners..
    If WWE would be as bad as some people claim, then it wouldn't make sense at all since they earn tons of money. Not everyone has to like it, but don't talk crap about it when other people love it. In that case just go watch something else.
    Most of the wrestlers are great. Yeah, a lot of people said it used to be much better in the past. Those are the people who liked (a) superstar(s) that already quit. Actually, superstars like Hulk Hogan himself said that these days WWE is even thougher then it used to be.

    Every superstar has fans and.. well, people who don't like them.
    Personally I like: Few examples:
    *Rey Mysterio (A brave litlle guy. Honest. Cool mask that represents the oldskool-wrestling in Mexico. His high-flying moves are original and eyecatching.)
    *Batista (Too bad he's a jerk lately, but he has some sick power).
    *Randy Orton (Cocky attitude. I first hated that guy, but actually I started too like seeing him in action).

    Now, every superstar, if you like them or not, they all try to do they job and try to entertain. Yes, there are some jerks, but if everybody would get along, it would be very boring, no? Everyone has its own opinion, but I just watching WWE causse it's entertaining. I've been watching since I was a lil' child. Personally I think it's act, or the biggest part of it. But it's still cool. What, movies are acted too.. Even if they acting, they still have to maintain their wrestling-skills and their physical, well their body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Night_Walker View Post
    I'm an Aussie so yeah I've never been to a live-show. But that's irrelevant, if Cena is SO popular then how come the majority of fans boo him on the shows? If he's so popular it shouldn't matter where he appears.
    ....Only a small majority of people actually boo him out of disrespect, everyone else does it thinking their cool. It happens all the time, Cena will say "whether you love me", then the crowd will cheer like crazy, then he'll say "or whether you hate me" and the same exact people boo him. I thought that was fairly obvious.

    Cena is not charismic, what about someone who yells when "intensity" is called for and thinks juvenile toilet-humour is funny is charismatic?[/SIZE][/FONT]

    Wait, so you want him to not yell and get excited in his promos and be as mono-tone as he can possibly be? If promos aren't the time to be intense I don't know when is. Its not like he yells when he is sad or anything, so I have no idea where your getting this from. Not to mention, in the last part of your comment, you don't seem to fathom the idea he doesn't write his own material, he just works with what he is given.

    I want the most talented/able people, the ones who can actually wrestle a main-event without needing a helping hand from others, to be the headline of the show that's all.
    And Cena can do all of that. He is an extremely solid wrestler who usually is the one helping others.

    Cena's offence hasn't developed in 4-5 years. He uses the same moves which are all about seeming powerful, sometimes not even bothering to learn how to use them properly (ie the 'hip-toss' that put him on the shelf for 4 months).
    I would like you to find me an example of anyone past 30 years of age evolving their offence in the WWE. I don't see Michaels, HHH, Undertaker(w/exception of hells gate), Edge, even your beloved Randy Orton who has just switched to a more boring, methodical style.

    Granted move-sets tend to be limited in the ring but at least people like Jericho, Orton, DiBaise, Undertaker, Edge, Swagger, etc know how to technically perform the move so that it's not all about power, and it's also a move that looks nice.
    I personally think Cena does that, he always makes his three signatures look nice(stfu, attitude adjustment, 5 knuck-shuffle). I think your problem is that your literally looking too much into the wrestling of Cena just to find a problem to bash him on, instead of doing what wrestling is meant for, enjoyment. I guarantee you I find as many problems in anyone else you've mentioned as I can with cena if I cared as much as you seem to about bashing cena.


    My point about Orton being the future of the WWE is that right now I'd argue the WWE is built around HHH, HBK & Undertaker.
    Orton is one of the people who will be one of those cornerstones of the WWE in years to come once HHH, HBK and Undertaker have retired (if he isn't one of the cornerstones already)- he's the right age, he's got the talent and ability, he's massively over (even as a heel).
    Ortons moveset is as diverse as Cenas right now, its full of headlocks, his backbreaker, spike DDT, and the RKO. Cena already beats out that list with his so called "5 moves of doom". I'm not saying I don't think Orton can do more, as I'm a fan of him myself, but I think Cena can do more as well but WWE limits him for the benefit of kids.

    Also, Orton gets as much cheering as Cena does booing, he isn't over at all as a heel anymore unless he attacks a face.

    Cena simply doesn't strike me as someone the WWE can use as a cornerstone.
    Yeah....ummm...have you watched the past 5 years of wrestling? I really don't know what to say to this.

    So yeah it annoys me to have Orton made out as weak and cowardly when he's as vital to the company as their big names.
    No arguement from me here, they definately screwed up on making him look cowardly, but having him dominating the company would make him all the same reasons you hate Cena with the exception of wrestling.


    Okay... if they're not still pushing Cena why was he Superstar of the Year? Why has he hardly been away from the Main-Event except when he's been injured for the last 4-5 years?
    Did you actually read your own comment? You said they ARE pushing newer talent to make up for after cena leaves, but now your saying they aren't pushing the newer talent. Make up your mind. Also, he has been injured for small parts of those years, not even close to the majority of them.

    I won't argue Cena and Orton that are definitely still young (32 and 29 respectively) but I think Orton is a current cornerstone wrestler for the company. I'd say Swagger, MVP, Benjamin, Morrison, MacIntyre will eventually join him when HHH HBK and Taker (with supporting guys like Jericho) retire. I don't see Cena as possessing those same traits.
    Once again, I'm not saying that Orton isn't a cornerstone, but I do think Cena is as much of cornerstone as orton is. WWE realizes this too, its why they had as big of a feud as they did and recognized it as one of the biggest they have had. You might not think of Cena as good, but he IS a solid wrestler who knows his moves. He has never injured someone else, and no one has ever complained about him backstage about his in ring skills. Even Cartlito, who is phenominal athlete and someone I'm sure you consider better than cena, has said that no one puts more work into training than Cena.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    ....Only a small majority of people actually boo him out of disrespect, everyone else does it thinking their cool. It happens all the time, Cena will say "whether you love me", then the crowd will cheer like crazy, then he'll say "or whether you hate me" and the same exact people boo him. I thought that was fairly obvious.
    No, I'm so sick of hearing this "people only boo Cena cause they think it's cool". People boo because they do not like him or him being pushed down their throat.

    When HHH is a face he is mostly cheered, when he's a heel he's mostly booed. That is the way fan dynamics are meant to work, when you've got a face who is mostly booed that means you've got a problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Wait, so you want him to not yell and get excited in his promos and be as mono-tone as he can possibly be? If promos aren't the time to be intense I don't know when is. Its not like he yells when he is sad or anything, so I have no idea where your getting this from. Not to mention, in the last part of your comment, you don't seem to fathom the idea he doesn't write his own material, he just works with what he is given.
    I want him to be human; vary his vocal tone to reflect what he's saying not just think yelling is fine for "intensity".
    I think they all have some input in what they say. I mean did Kofi use juvenile toilet humour in his feud with Orton? No.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    And Cena can do all of that. He is an extremely solid wrestler who usually is the one helping others.
    He is one of their weaker 'wrestlers' - his moveset is ugly and all about power not subtly, he can't sell, and he is held up in virtually every main-event he's in by his more talented opponents

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I would like you to find me an example of anyone past 30 years of age evolving their offence in the WWE. I don't see Michaels, HHH, Undertaker(w/exception of hells gate), Edge, even your beloved Randy Orton who has just switched to a more boring, methodical style.
    I must disagree, these men have added moves to their selection pool (HBK; inverted figure 4 - HHH; "Double A" spinebuster, figure 4 - Undertaker - Last Ride, Hell's Gate - Orton; Rope hung DDT, briefly a Boston crab, the Punt - Edge; Spear, Impaler, One Man Concerto) - just because they don't use them all the time doesn't mean they don't exist - and even more importantly they learn to perform them so they're done properly and look good.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I personally think Cena does that, he always makes his three signatures look nice(stfu, attitude adjustment, 5 knuck-shuffle). I think your problem is that your literally looking too much into the wrestling of Cena just to find a problem to bash him on, instead of doing what wrestling is meant for, enjoyment. I guarantee you I find as many problems in anyone else you've mentioned as I can with cena if I cared as much as you seem to about bashing cena.
    Ah yes... the shoulder-block, shoulder-block, throwback, 5 kunckle-shuffle, F-U/Attitude Adjustment, pinfall or into STFU. He does have those down but it's irritating to always watch him perform the same sequence, it lacks the spontaneity some others have (especially in regards to his finisher which never comes from "nowhere").
    I suppose you're right to an extent; I don't like Cena and have had the time to notice these things about him because he's continually pushed, however I do look at people like Orton and Swagger and such and think they're much more capable wrestlers.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Ortons moveset is as diverse as Cenas right now, its full of headlocks, his backbreaker, spike DDT, and the RKO. Cena already beats out that list with his so called "5 moves of doom". I'm not saying I don't think Orton can do more, as I'm a fan of him myself, but I think Cena can do more as well but WWE limits him for the benefit of kids.
    Er what about: the punt, best drop-kick in the WWE, the revolving stomp, European Upper-Cut, Powerslam.
    Granted he hasn't used them that much lately but he has in the past, Cena's moveset has been pretty much the same for the whole of his time in the WWE.
    And I think Orton executes his moves a lot better, which I suppose is hardly a surprise since Orton's third generation and Cena was a bodybuilder before getting into the WWE.


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Also, Orton gets as much cheering as Cena does booing, he isn't over at all as a heel anymore unless he attacks a face.
    That's just my point - the majority of the crowd like and respect Randy, hence why the writers and such keep Orton doing cowardly things (like getting DQed to retain a title he holds at the time, or conducting sneak attacks) to try to get the crowd to boo him.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Yeah....ummm...have you watched the past 5 years of wrestling? I really don't know what to say to this.
    Well if Cena still wrestles the same way he did against JBL at the Wrestlemania where he first became WWE champion then it seems a pretty safe statement to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    No arguement from me here, they definately screwed up on making him look cowardly, but having him dominating the company would make him all the same reasons you hate Cena with the exception of wrestling.
    I'd just like to see Orton pushed as talented. Honestly if they let him be as good as he can be, regardless of feud, I'd be happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Did you actually read your own comment? You said they ARE pushing newer talent to make up for after cena leaves, but now your saying they aren't pushing the newer talent. Make up your mind. Also, he has been injured for small parts of those years, not even close to the majority of them.
    They're pushing some other superstars but they're still pushing Cena more then anyone else.

    Cena's fueds since WrestleMania 21:
    Cena vs JBL for the WWE title.
    Cena vs Jericho for the WWE title.
    Cena vs Angle (with cameo from Chris Masters) for the WWE title.
    Cena vs Edge for the WWE title part 1.
    Cena vs Triple H for the WWE title.
    Cena vs RVD & Edge for the WWE title.
    Cena vs Edge for the WWE title part 2.
    Cena vs King Booker vs the Big Show three way title feud.
    Cena vs Umaga for the WWE title.
    Cena vs HBK for the WWE title.
    Cena vs Orton vs Edge vs HBK for the WWE title.
    Cena vs The Great Khali for the WWE title.
    Cena vs Randy Orton for the WWE title part 1 - Ended when Cena tore his pectoral muscle preforming a hip-toss on Mr Kennedy.
    Cena vs Randy Orton for the WWE title part 2.
    Cena vs Randy Orton vs HHH for the WWE title.
    Cena vs JBL.
    Cena & Batista vs The Legacy for the World Tag team championships.
    Cena vs Batista - Ended when Cena suffered a herniated disc following a Batisa Bomb.
    Cena vs Chris Jericho for the WHC.
    Cena vs Edge vs The Big Show for the WHC.
    Cena vs Edge.
    Cena vs The Big Show.
    Cena vs Randy Orton vs HHH for the WWE title.
    Cena vs Randy Orton for the WWE title part 3.
    Cena vs Sheamus for the WWE title.

    Need I say more?


    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Once again, I'm not saying that Orton isn't a cornerstone, but I do think Cena is as much of cornerstone as orton is. WWE realizes this too, its why they had as big of a feud as they did and recognized it as one of the biggest they have had. You might not think of Cena as good, but he IS a solid wrestler who knows his moves. He has never injured someone else, and no one has ever complained about him backstage about his in ring skills. Even Cartlito, who is phenominal athlete and someone I'm sure you consider better than cena, has said that no one puts more work into training than Cena.
    To be honest I'm not sure why I don't see Cena as a cornerstone for the WWE, given the fact that HHH isn't the greatest wrestler the company's ever seen yet he's still a cornerstone.

  6. #106
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    WWE sucked after the whole WCW/ECW vs WWF thing was over.


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    I reckon its always sucked. UFC is much more interesting and its real.
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  8. #108
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    Two oily and sweaty men rubbing up on each other whilst rolling around the ground, truly great!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank The Bunny View Post
    WWE sucked after the whole WCW/ECW vs WWF thing was over.
    I totally agree with you on that. The Attitude Era was the peak of WWF/E After that Alliance vs WWF story ended, WWE started plummetting.





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    You guys are missing a point here. WWE is now marketed towards kids, it's not for older people anymore. The attitude era was only to get ratings, nothing more nothing less, but they decided to take WWE in a family friendly direction, and you people have, "Matured."

    Frank, It's not two men rolling around like that. It's a physicaly grueling performance that has to look real, or it's hated. It's extremly hard, and you say it sucks now, because you're "Mature" and it's more family friendly now.

    Evil, it's fake. That's why wrestling is big. People enjoy the theartrics and wrestling maneuvers, even if they know it's fake.

    Fire, The alliance vs. WWE was awesome I admit. But WWE hasn't gotten worse, you've "Matured" and WWE hasn't, and that was a good move for it, it's more popular than ever, and now, there's actual wrestling on SD, ECW, and Superstars. Raw is mostly gimmicks, and I avoid it like the plauge, but the other shows are awesome.

    Why won't people get that they're grown up, and WWE hasn't? WWE has ratings, and a ton of merchendise sales, all because they made that decision.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Treeconator11 View Post
    You guys are missing a point here. WWE is now marketed towards kids, it's not for older people anymore. The attitude era was only to get ratings, nothing more nothing less, but they decided to take WWE in a family friendly direction, and you people have, "Matured."

    Frank, It's not two men rolling around like that. It's a physicaly grueling performance that has to look real, or it's hated. It's extremly hard, and you say it sucks now, because you're "Mature" and it's more family friendly now.

    Evil, it's fake. That's why wrestling is big. People enjoy the theartrics and wrestling maneuvers, even if they know it's fake.

    Fire, The alliance vs. WWE was awesome I admit. But WWE hasn't gotten worse, you've "Matured" and WWE hasn't, and that was a good move for it, it's more popular than ever, and now, there's actual wrestling on SD, ECW, and Superstars. Raw is mostly gimmicks, and I avoid it like the plauge, but the other shows are awesome.

    Why won't people get that they're grown up, and WWE hasn't? WWE has ratings, and a ton of merchendise sales, all because they made that decision.
    When you say it like that, it actually makes sense why I feel the way I feel about WWE.





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    YAY FOR RE-EDUCATION!!!! It's too bad I couldn't convert you to WWEisawesomeism, but whatever.

    Night, I'm going to finish this argument between you and Raiga right now. John Cena is the superior wrestler, because he has ridicolusly high Merchandise sales, and kids look up to him as a hero and they watch the show when he's on it. Randy is not as good at that is John Cena.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Treeconator11 View Post
    Night, I'm going to finish this argument between you and Raiga right now. John Cena is the superior wrestler, because he has ridicolusly high Merchandise sales, and kids look up to him as a hero and they watch the show when he's on it. Randy is not as good at that is John Cena.

    Since it's not getting anywhere I'll just say this and drop the argument:

    Cena is the better merchandiser, why I still don't understand past the fact kids still like 1-dimensional characters who always win.
    Orton is the better technical wrestler.

    As a fan I have the right to choose if I want to support someone who sells stuff for the company or someone who performs well in the ring, and the right to feel that the company should be focusing on in-ring rather then merchandising.

    Anyway away from that, the writing on all shows for all feuds and segments desperately needs improving.

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    You want to hear trash talk and watch fighting? Get into politics.
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    See, that proves my entire point here. John Cena is the better Merchandiser, thus, in the eyes of Mr. Mcmahon and the WWE staff, he is the better wrestler. I don't really wanna keep this going but, the company would rather have a guys who sells merchandise, than a guy who knows how to wrestle.

    Also, I agree about the writing needing an improvement. It's boring, and the jokes suck big time.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Treeconator11 View Post
    See, that proves my entire point here. John Cena is the better Merchandiser, thus, in the eyes of Mr. Mcmahon and the WWE staff, he is the better wrestler. I don't really wanna keep this going but, the company would rather have a guys who sells merchandise, than a guy who knows how to wrestle.
    In my eyes selling merchandise doesn't amount to wresting.

    Cena's demographic group is: women and kids - you can hear it in the voices of those who cheer whenever he gets on a roll. These are people who don't care if someone can sell or not, constantly comes out a winner, or doesn't wrestle technically.

    The technical wrestler, HBK Orton Edge Jericho etc, appeals to: the traditional wrestling fanbase, people who want to be entertained by the fights in the ring and who are about 60% if not more of the audience.

    Hence okay you get the Cena fanbase's money but you steadily infuriate more and more of the people who will consistently pay to get in to watch wrestling.

    Does where I'm coming from make sense now?


    Quote Originally Posted by Treeconator11 View Post
    Also, I agree about the writing needing an improvement. It's boring, and the jokes suck big time.
    Yeah a lot of the feuds feel stale, don't do justice to both wrestlers, and last way too long, with only a few gem promos around now and then.

    For instance the Orton vs Kingston feud.
    At first it made Kofi look good, but now it's getting really stale cause Kofi is always getting the better of Orton - who can't get a clean win over him.
    This actually hurts both of them; it makes Orton look weak and thus doesn't make Kofi seem as good as it would if he were coming out better against someone who is also really good.

    And the 'jokes' by far and away are so juvenile I'm surprised almost anyone ever laughs at them... So they're in desperate need of reworking.

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    Okay, I can agree on some points, but John Cena honestly isn't as bad as he's made out to be. He can actually do some pretty good matches, and he's pretty over with some crowds.

    I think the real reason that the people boo Cena, is because WWE creative (A.K.A. Mr. McMahon) realized Cena was getting over with the crowds, and they made him a face, and took away all the stuff that people liked. It's not that they hate Cena, it's that they hate what WWE creative did to his character.





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  18. #118
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    Well currently TLC is given the award to differnt wrestlers. So what is your opnioin regarding that award.
    Last edited by mettstraw; 31st December 2009 at 9:00 AM.

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    Shemous is a badass...He's going to wipe the floor with Cena.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ugobama View Post
    Shemous is a badass...He's going to wipe the floor with Cena.
    Agreed for Win

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    Quote Originally Posted by Treeconator11 View Post
    Night, I'm going to finish this argument between you and Raiga right now. John Cena is the superior wrestler, because he has ridicolusly high Merchandise sales, and kids look up to him as a hero and they watch the show when he's on it. Randy is not as good at that is John Cena.
    We weren't arguing, no body was flaming or yelling at each other, it was just him getting his point of Cena not being able to sell and being over pushed while I got my point of Cena not being that bad across. Not really that hard to understand, we were more disputing smaller things like cena compared to other wrestlers.

    Also your way off, Cena is no where as good as Orton is. Orton can cut a promo better, and wrestle better than cena can. I just think that Night_Walker underestimates Cena a bit.

    Anyways, I didn't reply as I wasn't using the computer around the christmas days, but I'll reply to the rest of your stuff Night_Walker. I'll try to shorten how much I reply to though, as I agree on some of your points, and it gets just too long to reply to.

    No, I'm so sick of hearing this "people only boo Cena cause they think it's cool". People boo because they do not like him or him being pushed down their throat.
    Well I suppose there really isn't a way to prove who exactly is booing Cena, but as I said before you can distinctly see the same people cheering Cena as Booing cena later, but I suppose it really doesn't matter. However I have to disagree with more people booing him, epecially if you watched the latest Raw he didn't get almost any boos in the beginning. I mean the only time I've actually heard more people booing him than cheer him was at ECW One Night Stand 2.

    I want him to be human; vary his vocal tone to reflect what he's saying not just think yelling is fine for "intensity".
    I think they all have some input in what they say. I mean did Kofi use juvenile toilet humour in his feud with Orton? No.
    All I see is someone who goes from a lower tone to a higher intensity as the promo goes on, which makes sense. As far as the second part goes, Kofi's new character is a whole heck of a lot different than Cena's is, it wouldn't make sense for him to insult orton like that.

    His moveset is ugly and all about power not subtly, he can't sell, and he is held up in virtually every main-event he's in by his more talented opponents
    I don't know how exactly he can't sell, you've said this 5 hundred times without an example. He constantly shows himself getting weaker in a submission, I personally think he sells puches pretty well, and recently on this weeks raw he sold those pump kicks from Sheamus pretty dang good. I mean, if I go through videos of Cena with a magnifying glass I could find hundreds of mistakes I'm sure, but as I said before I watch wrestling for entertainment, not to analyze it.

    I must disagree, these men have added moves to their selection pool.....
    I was unaware adding 2 or 3 moves over 10 years of a career accounts as changing movesets. Cena no doubt hasn't added much into his arsenal over the years(even though I could find 2-3 easily), but that doesn't mean the others have added that much to theirs also. When I look at contstantly evolving movesets I would look no further than Zack Ryder who introduces a new move practically every week despite have 2-3 minute matches like everyone else.

    just because they don't use them all the time doesn't mean they don't exist - and even more importantly they learn to perform them so they're done properly and look good.
    ....Thats the case with everyone, including Cena. But than again its great that they have them but nobody in the world cares if they don't actually see them.

    They're pushing some other superstars but they're still pushing Cena more then anyone else.
    I never said they weren't pushing cena, however you said they were pushing newer talent to make up for when Cena and Orton are gone. Which you said yourself they aren't doing with that list of matches.



    Now for the idiots...

    WWE sucked after the whole WCW/ECW vs WWF thing was over.
    Look at treeconator11's post for this one. Or I'll sum it up in a sentence, YOUR OLDER NOW.

    I reckon its always sucked. UFC is much more interesting and its real.
    While I hate to insult UFC as its not that bad, I fail to see how, punch...kick...grab... is more interesting. Not to mention we have all those great personalities in UFC like... the guy who likes to fight.

    Two oily and sweaty men rubbing up on each other whilst rolling around the ground, truly great!
    Let me guess, you think UFC is better too, despite it being the exact thing your describing. As you don't seem to have ever watched a wrestling match as they don't "Roll on the ground" or "Rub up on each other". If anything you were getting turned on by this.

    You want to hear trash talk and watch fighting? Get into politics.
    Look up the words Argue and Fight on dictionary.com, and you'll find your problem. Unless I missed the presidential debate where obama roundhouse kicks McCain's head off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    Well I suppose there really isn't a way to prove who exactly is booing Cena, but as I said before you can distinctly see the same people cheering Cena as Booing cena later, but I suppose it really doesn't matter. However I have to disagree with more people booing him, epecially if you watched the latest Raw he didn't get almost any boos in the beginning. I mean the only time I've actually heard more people booing him than cheer him was at ECW One Night Stand 2.
    I think more people boo him then cheer him constantly.

    What makes it hard to hear is the higher pitched cheering of his dedicated fanbase (who often start cheering louder whenever they hear someone booing him).

    And the booing gets loudest when he starts the usual "5 moves of doom" sequence, so it's pretty clear what they don't like.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    All I see is someone who goes from a lower tone to a higher intensity as the promo goes on, which makes sense. As far as the second part goes, Kofi's new character is a whole heck of a lot different than Cena's is, it wouldn't make sense for him to insult orton like that.
    We don't just yell when we have intense feelings.

    Randy Orton has done so many promos where he hasn't yelled at all, he's varied his tone of voice from his usual one to an ice cold contempt filled one without raising the volume.
    That's effective and human.

    I suppose you're right on Kofi, but I still think Cena's promo work is desperate need of work on both sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I don't know how exactly he can't sell, you've said this 5 hundred times without an example. He constantly shows himself getting weaker in a submission, I personally think he sells puches pretty well, and recently on this weeks raw he sold those pump kicks from Sheamus pretty dang good. I mean, if I go through videos of Cena with a magnifying glass I could find hundreds of mistakes I'm sure, but as I said before I watch wrestling for entertainment, not to analyze it.
    There's a difference between selling being laid out backstage and selling being beaten up in the ring for longer then just when the actual move hits.

    And Cena can't do it.
    Against HBK at Mania 23, HBK worked on his leg for 15 minutes, when he finally turned the tide he didn't show any residual effects of that nor when he left the ring after the match.
    When he fought Orton at No Way Out the year before last he took an RKO on the floor but just about jumped back in the ring at the count of 9 and then showed no wooziness or ill effects of it.
    Those are the biggest examples I can think of but in his matches he frequently gets that second wind and shows no after effects of what's been done to him.

    Orton, HBK, HHH, Taker etc will get that second wind and run through to get the win, but they'll often sell that a worked over body part is still hurting and after the match they'll continue to sell it.
    For me it stops me cold because I think "hey wait a minute that (insert limb/bodypart) is supposed to have been beaten up how can you move like that?!"

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    ....Thats the case with everyone, including Cena. But than again its great that they have them but nobody in the world cares if they don't actually see them.
    With Cena he usually uses virtually his whole move set in a normal, non shortened non-squash, match. There's nothing left that you haven't seen after a match like that.

    Orton frequently don't have to expend his whole move set, personally I think in feuds where he's meant to make someone else look good he's restrained from using them all.

    Same with HHH etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Raiga- View Post
    I never said they weren't pushing cena, however you said they were pushing newer talent to make up for when Cena and Orton are gone. Which you said yourself they aren't doing with that list of matches.
    They're not moving Cena away from World Title fueds, that's what I consider pushing him down people's throats. Seriously if he spent the better party of 2010 from Jan on in the mid card, like most main-events do after running through a program as Champion, I'd stop complaining about him being pushed over the top of everyone else.

    It is reassuring to see that they do have some people being built up but they're being underused from what they should be.

  23. #123
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    I guess ill sum up a cena match now tell me how accurate i am...here it goes.

    Cena does that stupid salute ever since the marine,The bell rings here i go.

    Cena gets his asskicked,Then WAIT!! here comes the shoulderblock, then he "hulks up" then a 5 knuckle shuffle, then a..........whats the point of conntinuing.....could the next poster fill in the last thing he does?

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ugobama View Post
    Shemous is a badass...He's going to wipe the floor with Cena.
    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there's no Shemous in the WWE. There is a Sheamus though.

    Quote Originally Posted by jb08045 View Post
    I guess ill sum up a cena match now tell me how accurate i am...here it goes.

    Cena does that stupid salute ever since the marine,The bell rings here i go.

    Cena gets his asskicked,Then WAIT!! here comes the shoulderblock, then he "hulks up" then a 5 knuckle shuffle, then a..........whats the point of conntinuing.....could the next poster fill in the last thing he does?
    Wrong, replace those move's with Hulk Up, punch, punch, punch, big boot, Leg Drop, win, then it's perfect for Hulk Hogan.

    Honestly people, you underestimate John Cena here. John can wrestle some good matches, and he cuts a decent promo. It's not like he's the worst thing that ever happened to WWE, and now it's ruined forever. Yes, I understand John may not be as good as Randy Orton, well, ever. But John can actually wrestle worth a damn, and his promo's are decent.

    I don't understand why a wrestler has to be Randy level good or they suck. John can do his job, and he can do it well, maybe not Randy good, but he's not as bad as you people say he is.





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  25. #125
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    Cena is the main problem with WWE right now People are sick of him and they want more people to be the WWE or WHC like Kofi kingston he's been on a role since Orton and Cena's Iron man match. Heck I would rather see Ted dibiase jr as the WWE champ.

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