Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 63

Thread: [Gen 5] All Competitve Pokemon Masters click here!--EV Guide Abridged

  1. #1

    Default [Gen 5] All Competitve Pokemon Masters click here!--EV Guide Abridged

    This guide is for those who know it all except for possibly (unlikely) what I am about to type about EV spreads. I abridged it because no one will read it otherwise. If you're an expert, why waste your time reading a long guide? To create expert EV spreads that are beyond the already egregious skills of you competitive Pokemon masters of Sppf, follow the following steps so long as they apply to your Pokemon (1 and 7-9 apply to all). A link to the unabridged portions follows each step.

    1.)Think about what you want your Pokemon to do. Set a useful goal for the Pokemon first. Make sure it's possible to achieve through damage calculators such as: http://ownpurpose.com/libelldra/damage_calculator.html Choose the nature you think you'll need at this stage. Unabridged.

    2.)Find something important to outspeed. If your Pokemon is too slow or a wall like Cresselia, this is less important. It depends on your goal though. There's no point in putting speed on wallish Pokemon like resttalk Cresselia or Crocune since (a) it's useless to their purpose and (b) it will be useless nearly every time. They get more use by putting those EVs in defenses (including HP). Maximizing speed when the spare EVs are useless elsewhere is fine (e.g. CB Weavile). Unabridged.

    3.)Find something important to NHKO. OHKO, 2HKO, OHKO with SR, etc. Very important for sweepers, somewhat important for tanks, and less important for walls. It depends on your Pokemon's purpose. Maxing the offense of sweepers is fine. Stuff with awful offense generally ignore this step. Unabridged.

    4.)Find something important to survive. Very important for tankish and bulky sweeperish Pokemon. For Pokemon like Snorlax and Skamory, maximize their defensive potential in accordance with your original goal. For frail Pokemon like Weavile and Gengar, you generally don't need to bother with this since it will be (a) a waste of EVs to survive something or (b) they won't be able to survive it anyways.

    5.)If you want to maximize defenses, max HP first. If it has loads of HP relative to its defenses, you don't need to max it (e.g. Snorlax, Blissey). If it doesn't, you must max it (e.g. Dusknoir, Rotom-A). If it's in-between (e.g. Latias, Metagross), you can go for a lefties point, but only do so if it (a) provides better defense (rarely happens) or (b) provides those smidgen of EVs necessary to KO or outspeed a threat in accordance with steps 2-3. If your Pokemon is weak to SR or takes neutral and runs items that do not affect its health (Choiced item, Expert Belt, Berry, etc.), don't make its HP divisible by 4 if the former and don't make its HP divisible by 8 if the latter. Those rules don't apply if you have Sandstorm or hail on your team and your Pokemon is weak to it. Don't bother with "minimum Life Orb recoil." So long as HP isn't divisible by 10, you're fine.

    6.)In maxmizing defenses, put EVs in defense last. For all Pokemon but Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax, this is true. To maximize defenses, find what combination of the EVs that you still have left split between HP and defenses gives you the best defensive potential.* Note that 128 / 128 is often bad.

    7.)Be economical. Use the combination of EVs which gives you the most out of them.....EVERY TIME!!! That means you may find that your originally intended nature must be changed at this stage of EVing or that you can do more with your EVs than your original goal. Consequently, your EV spread and maybe goal needs to be changed. If so, go back to step 1. Also make sure each EV placement has a reason backing it. Stuff like "enough to outspeed x, maxed HP, enough to OHKO y, rest dumped in Defense" is fine provided outspeeding x, max HP, and KOing y is useful and viable.

    8.)Extra EVs and gaining them. Use extra EVs to hit jump points. Or if you need or want extra EVs, hit a jump point in one stat you originally had maxed or hit the nearest jump point you can while still doing something specific in accordance with step 2-4 and your original goal. The former is the usual situation, hence splits like 176 / 80 or 216 / 40. Hitting lefties points gives extra EVs, but they have been discussed already. Also, use 252 > 255. Unabridged.

    9.)Remember: think > goal > specification > optimization > bonuses. Stop in the chain when you run out of EVs, obviously. Speed is usually the first step of specification, but all this has already been discussed. A combination of experience, your team, knowledge of whether a Pokemon is outclassed at what it's doing or of whether it's doing too much to be effective, and Shoddy statistics/Smogon's movesets will help you determine "usefulness," "stuff to aim for," and "viability." Also, useful speed tiers and Smogon's OU, Ubers, UU, and Little Cup speed tiers.


    I humbly submit this to our CRMT guide collection even though no one will read it once it goes there. If it's a hit, I'll continue with my "Abridged Series for Competitive Pokemon Masters" in a future installment. I wonder if our persistent, yet-to-be-discovered troll friend will rate this five stars? ^_^

    *APPENDIX
    This will explain what I mean by defensive potential (VERY similar to "Statistical (Special) Defense") and will give examples of EV spreads. Only read this part if you need examples, don't know what in the world defensive potential is, or are simply interested. Reading this appendix makes the guide much less abridged. Note that the concept of defensive potential is slightly flawed due to game rounding, and so it should not be used when making very precise spreads.

    Determining defensive potential (e.g. determining whether one combination of HP and SDef is better than another combination of HP and SDef on the special side) is quite simple. Multiply your Pokemon's HP stat by one of its Defense stats to get a number. Try a different combination of HP and that same defensive stat then multiply them again. Compare the two numbers: (the larger number x 100 / the smaller number) - 100 = combination that created the larger number is w% better than the combination that created the smaller number.

    Or you can use: the smaller number x 100 / the larger number = combination that created the smaller number takes hits w% as well as the combination that created the larger number. Offensive potential (e.g. determining whether a given SAtk stat and move is better than the same SAtk and another move (or a different SAtk and same move) on the special side) is similar and is compared with the exact same formulas. The numbers you use are found by multiplying an attack stat by the base power of the appropriate move. In both cases, the larger the number you get from multiplication, the better the defensive or offensive potential is.

    Examples of EV spreads
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    EVs: ???
    -Wish
    -U-Turn
    -Stealth Rock
    -Zen Headbutt/Iron Head/Ice Punch

    I start by figuring out what I want it to do. It's obviously supposed to be bulky. Taking two DD LO Salamence Outrages and an Adamant CB Dugtrio EQ (to get off one last Wish if timed right) isn't a bad idea either. To start, I max the HP. I then find how many EVs I need to survive that from an Adamant LO Salamence by using a damage calculator, since I know it will hit harder than Dugtrio. I start by maxing defense and using an Impish nature and check the damage. I then lower my defensive EVs by and repeat again and again. Doing this, I find I need an Impish nature and 140 EVs in Defense to survive this after SR damage.

    Since Jirachi reaches 236 Speed with a neutral nature and 0 EVs, a reasonable speed to aim for is 245, outrunning both Jolly Max speed Tyranitar and those trying to outrun it by 1 point. This requires 36 EVs. I then dump the rest in SDef to soften special attacking blows, giving: 252 HP / 140 Def / 80 SDef / 36 Speed. From experience, I know Jirachi can survive attacks from LO Gengar given enough EVs. I check to see how close Jirachi is to surviving it. Jirachi survives it well, so I see how well it survives consecutive Shadow Ball and Hidden Power [Fire] (after Jirachi switches into an obvious Shadow Ball or Focus Blast, HP [Fire] would be Gengar's next reasonable move).

    It turns out it barely survives (outside of SR). So, I play with the EVs between HP and SDef until it survives it the best it can. I do not lower the HP less than 401 HP though because 401 Hp allows Jirachi to take 5 consecutive Seismic Tosses. Seems situational, but it's a small investment, so I might as well aim for it. I find that 404 HP and 257 SDef gives Jirachi the best chance it has at surviving LO Gengar's moves and allows it to barely survive inside of SR. I check to see the difference in damage I take from Salamence and Dugtrio, and I see that there is now a 0.07% chance of Jirachi not surviving Salamence. This is pretty much zero chance, so the final spread is 252 HP / 136 Def / 84 SDef / 36 Speed Impish.

    Edit: Yay! Five stars!!!

    Edit2: But five stars not from the troll! xp
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 22nd March 2010 at 8:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    193

    Default

    I wonder if our persistent, yet-to-be-discovered troll friend will rate this five stars? ^_^
    I was talking about this with JRC the other day.

    Back on topic. It's a great thread that should either be stickied or put into the CRMT Guide Collection. Less walls of text equals more people will read/ finish this.
    Join the BLD Tutor Program. Here is where to go if you want to enhance your competetive battling skills with a first class tutor program. We also have a League for challenging and weekly tourneys. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. bld chat

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    424

    Default

    My five stars (dhat).

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks everyone! And I updated the OP about the 5 star thing, Kebilito. I thought it was odd since there was another thread without 5 stars on the page for a while, haha. I also was sooo sure the troll would rate it 1 star since I mentioned something xp!

    And I changed rule 5 to reflect what you said, Calum. I just edited it a bit to make it shorter because obviously, this is supposed to be short XD.
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 11th November 2009 at 4:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,177

    Default

    This just needs some examples of EV spreads, and it will be perfect.

  6. #6

    Default

    Well, I wasn't originally going to give examples, since the beauty of the guide is its succinctness. However, I also wanted to make the guide both easier to understand and as universally applicable as possible. Not to mention the call of perfection is too good to pass up! So I'll throw in an example or three at the end. If people are interested, they can see the examples. If not, then the guide is still short. (Of course, I'll write the examples as concise as possible too.)

    I'll try and write the examples sometime soon (like today or the weekend), but I like to save time as much as the next person. So, if you have any specific suggestions, Blue Harvest, as to what would work as examples, I'd be happy to see them.


    Edit: Also, I'm glad you liked the guide so much, Blue Harvest, especially considering I know you had planned on doing one once upon a time.
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 13th November 2009 at 11:13 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,937

    Default

    Wow, awesome. This forum desperately needs a thread like this.
    Good idea keeping it short & sweet.

    ^Click it!^

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,177

    Default

    Oh. Defensive potential and speed tiers should be noted (you can direct link to the speed tiers I posted somewhere, Smogon's or make your own).

    Defensive potential means multiplying the pokemon's HP and defensive stat (the actual stats, not the EVs) to get a number you can use to figure out what EV spread creates the greatest durability. The same could be said offensively, by multiplying the attack stat by the moves base power. Its extremely easy to do and the resulting numbers makes EV planning simple.

    smaller number X 100 / the larger number = how much more durability the larger stat has. This helps when you're trying to determine if losing out on "X" much defense for "Y" much special defense gain is really worth it.



    For an example.. uhh.. I'll get back to you on that. I just need to find / make one. I prefer simplicity on my EV spreads (I run 252/252 specially defensive TTar instead of 252/216) so I'll have trouble finding a "fancy" one that actually works.

  9. #9

    Default

    Took me a while to reply to this because I wasn't sure what you were getting at with your defensive potential formula at first. I was just taught to multiply the HP and the defense stat to get a number. You would then compare this number to the number you would get from doing the same with a different combination of HP and defense. Obviously, you put the "comparing" process all into one formula. Not a bad idea since this is Sppf, after all. =0

    I did consider putting that in there, but I thought it might be a bit too much. I guess I can just give the formula as an "I believe" type or something. I'll try and find a way to fit it in there.

    I also considered putting the speed tiers in there, but I thought it would be obvious enough as to where to check. However, you're suggestion is a good one, so I'll add a quick link to both yours and Smogon's guide. Yours because they're just....WOW. You also gave an explanation of how to use any speed tier in that guide, so I won't have to when linking to it. Smogon's because though they have some irrelevant points (at least in OU), some people might like to know that those points are there however nonexistant they are...

    You're right. It's hard to find a complicated one that works.


    Edit: Glad you liked it, Grumpy Snorlax!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    8

    Default

    A side tip to emphasize the nature idea: Unless you need a stat higher than what a neutral nature can give you, get a +nature in the highest relevant base stat. An example would be that Lucario would be running Adamant or Jolly on an SD sweeper set because he wouldn't be using special attacks (his SAtk is higher than his Atk). He might run Jolly for the sake of outrunning Rotom formes and KO'ing them with a +2 Crunch or tying other Lukes. You guys see what I'm getting at? Just to make it clearer and stuff.

  11. #11

    Default

    hmm, if I added that sentence in, the average reader would have to read it a few times. One of the complaints of Danbaru's excellent guide was that it was too hard to understand. Obviously, I'd be defeating this guide's purpose by doing that, and this is by no means supposed to be comprehensive. If it was, I would have added proofs as to why "defensive potential" works along with a link to my jump point explanation and Kingdrom's leech seed article.

    If I find a better way to word it, I might do it. It depends on whether that sentence is implied enough in the guide to merit it, and I doubt that people at sppf would use "do-nothing" natures, which is the main reason I'm hesitant on adding it. I think it is since I emphasized specific points and optimization so much, but the only way to tell that would be for more of my 260 viewers to comment on that. Regardless, though, if I find a nice, quick, easily understandable way to say it, I'll add it. *starts thinking*

    Edit: I've made a section for defensive and offensive potential. Thoughts anyone on whether this improves the guide or not?

    Edit2: hmm, how about "If a nature appears unneeded, use one that raises the highest, meaningful stat." ?

    Edit3: 555th post.
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 14th November 2009 at 8:30 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,177

    Default

    You're right, that is a little confusing. I'll write up something if you'd like, showing some random Gliscor sets or something side by side and show which is better and how to do it.

    Not now.. I'm going to the movies.. BUT LATER!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Under a bridge, trollin'
    Posts
    170

    Default

    Guess who's back-back-back, back again-gain-gain BH is back!

    Thought you had quit there for a bit.
    CLICK THIS LINK next 10 people to click will not only receive an informational brochure on the product but will also receive the ANTIDOTE.

    Have a nice day

    [img]http://i56.*******.com/2vtv82c.jpg[/img]

    Credit for the awesome userbar goes to gingbino11!!!

  14. #14

    Default

    Sure, go ahead, Blue Harvest. It turns out this weekend was busier than I anticipated, so now there's no knowing when I'll finally get those sample spreads done myself. If you happen to have the time and inclination, by all means please do it.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    193

    Default

    Why isn't this thing stickied yet?
    Join the BLD Tutor Program. Here is where to go if you want to enhance your competetive battling skills with a first class tutor program. We also have a League for challenging and weekly tourneys. Drop me a PM if you have any questions. bld chat

  16. #16

    Default

    Now, this is what this forum really needs....
    Great Job, looking forward to seeing those sample spreads!

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,177

    Default

    Oh wait, I just clicked on your link. http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/normalized_stats

    Forget anything I said, its the exact same thing Smogon already has.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    827

    Default

    How is it I missed this thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sala
    I humbly submit this to our CRMT guide collection even though no one will read it once it goes there.
    I read them all =D.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sala again
    If it's a hit, I'll continue with my "Abridged Series for Competitive Pokemon Masters"
    I vote for a series! You can also have my vote on adding this guide to the guide collection.

    I gave it my five stars because this thread truly deserves them (damn you 5 star troll >_>).

    Edit: Calum, Pokemon with Stealth Rock weakness shouldn't have Hp divisible by four. You said they should. Hi Blue Harvest
    Last edited by JRCxyz; 18th November 2009 at 5:24 AM.
    Don't know anything now. Yep, even less than before.

    Where are the Certified Raters?

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    24

    Default

    woah! i had tried to make ev spreads before but i never thought they had so much focus! thanks salvoir55, i think you should continue making these guides

    i gave this five s tars too. it doesn't make my brain hurt like Danbarus
    I also play SSBB. FC is 3566-1440-1736.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Leeds, England.
    Posts
    1,997

    Default

    5 Starring. Yet again Sala comes out of nowhere with something useful.

    I'm not great at creating my own EV Spreads - Sure my teams are generally top notch, and I can battle well, but creating my own sets is something I sturggle with, EV wise. I always know what I want to acheive, just never how to get there (I suck at Math, go figure) so I'll definitely re-read this.

    I think these kinds of guides should be mandatory reading for all who post in CRMT. Shame we can't force it upon people...

    Great work, thanks a lot. Looking forwards to the next ones.

    Banner credit: Jakotsu.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSN
    Profesco says:
    You were an admirable baby.
    Quote Originally Posted by L0L View Post
    They named a game after me?

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueRabbit
    Now, this is what this forum really needs....
    Great Job, looking forward to seeing those sample spreads!
    Thanks! And I'll hopefully be working on them soon enough since the weekend is almost here. Don't get your hopes up too high though, since I'm probably going to end up grabbing a few of Smogon's good EV spreads then going through the process of how they were found. I'm considering also using the so-called "HarvestCress" since it does illustrate a fair few of the points I made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sublime
    woah! i had tried to make ev spreads before but i never thought they had so much focus! thanks salvoir55, i think you should continue making these guides

    i gave this five s tars too. it doesn't make my brain hurt like Danbarus
    Indeed, the focus of EV spreads is what Danbaru's was getting at when he said that EV spreads are about "Maximizing your chances of winning." Glad this guide was helpful in that manner, and glad you liked it!

    @JRC: Well of course you would read them all, JRC, haha! It's nice to see that a range of people are liking the guide for their various reasons!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest
    Forget anything I said, its the exact same thing Smogon already has.
    Okay, it's forgotten. (I wonder if they've fixed the typo that I found in that article yet?) However, I'm a little hesitant on throwing out those two paragraphs since they took me so long to write because I was keeping it short but informative. Maybe I should save them for a future guide....

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfall
    5 Starring. Yet again Sala comes out of nowhere with something useful.
    lol, I think you just perfectly summed up my activity on this place since I stopped having time to rate. =p

    As to the rest of your post, I hope rereading the guide will be of use! And indeed, I do plan on continuing the series. Unfortunately, how to make EV spreads is the easiest topic to abridge usefully like this :/, but meh, I'll have to see what happens.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by zapper22001
    Why isn't this thing stickied yet?
    Excellent question. My guess is either they haven't seen it, don't think it's worth stickying, or they are waiting for me to finish so that they can lock the guide at the same time as stickying/linking to in the CRMT Guide Collection thread. If it's that last reason, then it's a good thing it isn't stickied yet. =p
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 19th November 2009 at 8:45 PM.

  22. #22

    Default

    Bump. I've put in an EV example. I'm not sure if I want to add others since they might make the guide too long. This one EV example was pretty long on its own. Thoughts anyone?
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 23rd November 2009 at 9:03 PM.

  23. #23

    Default

    You need more examples. Far more. One could compare how I had thought NewCress was the ultimate defense only to be trumped ever so slightly by Blue Harvest's set (which would emphasize the "Max HP for Bulk" argument which definitely needs to be expanded on). Blah blah blah no offense this guide is pretty shallow tide for my tastes when you're giving an inside look on an aspect as deep and customizable as Ev's.

    If you want I may have some time after work to write some stuff for this if you care about what an old retired punk like myself would say on the subject (if I can remember half my sh*t). Don't take this post as me storming back into the forums, I'm just reminiscent and wouldn't mind throwing an old friend a bone. Let me know, I'll be checking back every so often this week when I get the chance.

    EDIT: Oh, the set for Jirachi you supplied? You should be maxing HP. 252 HP/ 136 Defense/ 84 Special Defense/ 36 Speed takes hits on both sides better (yup, I checked) while sacrificing nothing. You should be taking your own advice haha.
    Last edited by Rhys29; 23rd November 2009 at 9:17 AM.
        Spoiler:- Spoiler:

  24. #24

    Default

    You need more examples. Far more. One could compare how I had thought NewCress was the ultimate defense only to be trumped ever so slightly by Blue Harvest's set (which would emphasize the "Max HP for Bulk" argument which definitely needs to be expanded on). Blah blah blah no offense this guide is pretty shallow tide for my tastes when you're giving an inside look on an aspect as deep and customizable as Ev's.
    It's an abridged guide. It isn't supposed to be incredibly detailed. My taste is in detail too, but that's not what this guide is supposed to be about. However, I probably will add the NewCress vs HarvestCress as an example since it is such an awesome illustration. If I decide to add a third example, it will be an offensive spread. However, there is little point for more examples, I think, unless most of the readers wish for them.

    You can write some stuff if you want, however, remember that this guide is supposed to be short. If you want to use what I have here as a jump start to a more detailed guide, go ahead. I don't really have the time to make a detailed one myself, nor do I think a detailed one is *that* necessary, however interesting it would be.

    Oh, the set for Jirachi you supplied? You should be maxing HP. 252 HP/ 136 Defense/ 84 Special Defense/ 36 Speed takes hits on both sides better (yup, I checked) while sacrificing nothing. You should be taking your own advice haha.
    You and I both know that I do and did. There is such a thing as an error. Time to do a little fact checking because I was quite careful with my example spread.

    Edit: Here are the facts between the two spreads:

    [Physical](404*297)/(401*298) = 119988[yours]/119498[mine] = 1.00410 ~ 0.41% better than my spread.

    [Special](404*257)/(401*259) = 103859[mine]/103828[yours] = 1.000298570 ~ 0.03% better than your spread.

    mine:
    (+1 LO Mence Outrage vs [240]401 HP / [140]298 Def)
    Raw damage: 171 185 201
    Percentages: 42.64% 46.13% 50.12%
    99.93% chance of survival in SR.

    yours:
    (+1 LO Mence Outrage vs [252]404 HP / [136]297 Def)
    Raw damage: 171 186 202
    Percentages: 42.33% 46.04% 50.00%
    99.93% chance of survival in SR

    mine:
    (LO Gengar vs [240]401HP / [92]259 SDef)
    Shadow Ball
    Raw damage: 156 169 184
    Percentages: 38.90% 42.14% 45.89%

    yours:
    (LO Gengar vs [252]404HP / [84]257 SDef)
    Shadow Ball
    Raw damage: 156 169 184
    Percentages: 38.61% 41.83% 45.54%

    mine:
    (LO Gengar vs [240]401HP / [92]259 SDef)
    Focus Blast
    Raw damage: 155 168 183
    Percentages: 38.65% 41.90% 45.64%

    yours:
    (LO Gengar vs [252]404HP / [84]257 SDef)
    Focus Blast
    Raw damage: 156 169 184
    Percentages: 38.61% 41.83% 45.54%

    mine:
    (LO Gengar vs [240]401HP / [92]259 SDef)
    HP [Fire]
    Raw damage: 180 196 214
    Percentages: 44.89% 48.88% 53.37%

    yours:
    (LO Gengar vs [252]404HP / [84]257 SDef)
    HP [Fire]
    Raw damage: 184 200 218
    Percentages: 45.54% 49.50% 53.96%

    Obviously, my spread survives Gengar with SR all the time while yours does most of the time. Both die to Outrage at the same rate, albeit your minimum damage is lower than mine. The rest of the percentages are effectively the same with both spreads since percentages on Shoddy round in the usual way. I actually knew this before I ran the calcs. I was careful, Rhys and knew that your spread did grant a smidgen of more physical bulk.

    Edit 2: I found out what happened. I forgot to lower the SAtk IV of Gengar to 30 for HP [Fire] when I originally took the calculation. It just goes to show you should check out all aspects of an old spread before copying and pasting. >_> An elementary error for sure, but it's a good thing it was caught.

    mine:
    (LO Gengar vs [240]401HP / [92]259 SDef)
    Shadow Ball
    Raw damage: 154 168 183
    Percentages: 38.40% 41.90% 45.64%

    yours:
    (LO Gengar vs [252]404HP / [84]257 SDef)
    Shadow Ball
    Raw damage: 156 169 184
    Percentages: 38.61% 41.83% 45.54%

    mine:
    (LO Gengar vs [240]401HP / [92]259 SDef)
    Focus Blast
    Raw damage: 155 168 183
    Percentages: 38.65% 41.90% 45.64%

    yours:
    (LO Gengar vs [252]404HP / [84]257 SDef)
    Focus Blast
    Raw damage: 156 169 184
    Percentages: 38.61% 41.83% 45.54%

    mine:
    (LO Gengar vs [240]401HP / [92]259 SDef)
    HP [Fire]
    Raw damage: 180 196 214
    Percentages: 44.89% 48.88% 53.37%

    yours:
    (LO Gengar vs [252]404HP / [84]257 SDef)
    HP [Fire]
    Raw damage: 180 196 214
    Percentages: 44.55% 48.51% 52.97%

    So now it's a matter of taking less minimum damage from Shadow Ball (my spread) or taking less minimum damage from Outrage (your spread). The rest is effectively the same (though except for Shadow Ball, all your percent damages are less than mine). Since this Jirachi is supposed to be taking Focus Blasts aimed at a SDef Tar, your spread is indeed better. Not to mention it gives an example of defensive potential since gaining 0.41% at the cost of 0.03% is quite reasonable when the prioritized goals are reached either way. Even though one would think it would round off because they are both less than one, the damage calculations show otherwise.


    Edit 3: Hmm. I'm very reluctant to add more examples right now since the guide is looking scarily unabridged now. I'll go ahead and add them when I get some time though to see what it looks like and decide (i.e. let my readers decide) afterwards.


    Edit 4: BE WARNED!!! LIBELLDRA FORGE has trouble taking LIFE ORB into account. Or at least, it messed up on the first Gengar calculation I ran. I thought it looked a bit low, and it turns out libelldra forge multiplied by 1.3 before adding 2. Yet, with Rhys's spread, it had no problems. So it is a bit odd.... I'll need to look more into it. However, it seems to have messed up on both our spreads during my recalculation using 358 SAtk. I'll have to recalculate them by hand now... Metalkid's seems to be doing the same thing, so maybe there's something I'm missing/forgot about. So yeah. Forget about what I said as far as what pertains to this goes.

    Also, I found 248 HP / 136 Def / 88 SDef / 36 Speed to be the improvement on my original spread since it has both superior special defense and defense compared to the 240 HP one. Rhys's still seems the best for the goal though unless you want to be 0.14% more comfortable around Gengar and 0.26% less comfortable around Mence (0.15% more comfortable around Mence 0.11% more comfortable around Gengar than the 240 HP spread, btw), but I'll need to think on it more.

    Edit 5: LIBELLDRA IS FINE!!! For some reason, I thought it was giving the wrong calculations. What is wrong is our idea of "defensive potential." It apparently can't be used for such precision.
    Last edited by Salavoir55; 30th December 2009 at 8:34 PM.

  25. #25

    Default

    Well for each section I could elaborate on them and you could put a link or something of that fashion. You have an abridged part and then there is a more detailed section if one wants to read into it.

    Not to sound like the usual prick, but I really don't see the point of even arguing your set's Shadow Ball vs. mine (though I'm sure you're not really too defensive about it). Both sets are always 3HKO'd, no iffs ands or buts about it and since only the minimal of all minimal damage is taken better it really doesn't help when everything else is defended against better.

    I also find it odd you state your set somehow takes .03% less damage on the special spectrum than mine but each Sp.A calc shows that mine takes less damage. Huh.

    Anyways, this is a very petty subject and really there isn't an argument I was just pointing something out (I had calcs in the first edit but Serebii was a d*ck and spazzed so they got deleted).
        Spoiler:- Spoiler:

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •