Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 57

Thread: Inter-species communication of pokemon?

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,228

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Benmeister View Post
    Why that's simple, each Pokemon is born with an in-built Babel fish.
    ...Then the question still remains of how they manage to understand one another. :P
    A New Beginning...

    Quote Originally Posted by Japanese Giovanni
    We have the best illusion I have rocket frogs get lost in a dream ...
    Quote Originally Posted by buskalilly View Post
    Everyone knows eggs appear because Pokémon hold hands and kiss at the same time.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Edge of the Horizon
    Posts
    244

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kacho View Post
    How is it possible for the 496(?) different species of pokemon to communicate like they are one same species?

    Just how?

    (Think about PMD games, think about Pikachu communicating to Zapdos in the movie.... pokemon talking to pokemon in animes)
    1) There are 493
    2) ESP?


    Find me on youtube but i will not be playing pokemon openly there since i upload music and PSN....
    ---------------------
    PO Teirs i play:
    Challenge Cup
    ---------------------
    Wifi Teirs i play:
    OU
    UU
    NU
    NFE
    Baby
    Hacked
    ---------------------

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    GMT 5:30- Do the math
    Posts
    206

    Default

    Pokemon don't have a language!!!

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    Jellsprout, you're actually wrong. Pokemon are indeed intelligent and quite capable of communicating with each other and with humans, seeing as how they are quite capable of understanding commands, strategies, and many other things base animal instinct would not be able to account for. Yes, I realize I provided bad examples.
    When I yell at a dog "sit", it sits. When I tell how my day was, it just sits there with his tongue hanging outside his mouth. Just because they are able to learn basic commands doesn't mean they are intellectual.
    In fact, in Pokédex entries it is clearly implied that only very, very few Pokémon are able to understand human speech.
    Besides, in the games Pokémon are never seen communicating with eachother or with humans, being able memorise more than one single action or understanding more than four commands.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    Look, both Special and the anime interpret pokemon as being able to think and talk. Those two are the main two detailed viewpoints of the Pokemon world, and if both of them say the same thing in this case, there is no reason why we should not assume the same in the actual game, where the point is never addressed beyond a legend in the Canalave library and some NPC talk about how Pokemon should be respected.
    The animé continuity has many errors when compared to the other Pokémon or even when compared to its earlier seasons. It is too contradicting to actually consider canon.
    I have never read anything of the manga, so I can't adress that.
    The games have the Pokédex entries too. Some of these, such as Pidgey and Ratatta indicate that Pokémon have an intellectual level similar to that of animals. These entries also give a far better view on the lives of wild Pokémon than the animé.

    Quote Originally Posted by zlxq3000 View Post
    ...Then the question still remains of how they manage to understand one another. :P
    Do you even know what a Babelfish is?

    Legend of Zelda: Hoenn Adventures is currently dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile Guy View Post
    He didn't win the argument, he was just more stubborn than you were.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    US
    Posts
    351

    Default

    ^I do believe the joke is that Babelfish just sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by col_serra View Post
    but mew is jesus
    ALL HAIL KING NEPTUNE AND HIS WATER BREATHERS!

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Shining in 32 skies
    Posts
    9,994

    Default

    Language is probably just limited to evolution lines.

    Other than that, I think that tone of voice and body movements suffice.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    On the floor
    Posts
    4,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jellsprout View Post
    When I yell at a dog "sit", it sits. When I tell how my day was, it just sits there with his tongue hanging outside his mouth. Just because they are able to learn basic commands doesn't mean they are intellectual.
    In fact, in Pokédex entries it is clearly implied that only very, very few Pokémon are able to understand human speech.
    Besides, in the games Pokémon are never seen communicating with eachother or with humans, being able memorise more than one single action or understanding more than four commands.
    What you fail to understand is simple.

    YOUR DOG IS NOT A POKEMON.

    The two should not even be compared.

    And, as I stated, the games say nothing about this at all. On the other hand, both Special and the anime, which are two detailed views of pokemon, both say pokemon are quite capable of understanding human speech.

    The animé continuity has many errors when compared to the other Pokémon or even when compared to its earlier seasons. It is too contradicting to actually consider canon.
    Contradictions usually only occur due to later features (such as Pichu for the baby Pikachus in an early episode), or just for the sake of the plot (the whole ground type thing). Other then that, the anime is a good source for taking information about the world of pokemon as a whole.

    I have never read anything of the manga, so I can't adress that.
    The games have the Pokédex entries too. Some of these, such as Pidgey and Ratatta indicate that Pokémon have an intellectual level similar to that of animals. These entries also give a far better view on the lives of wild Pokémon than the animé.
    Let's try looking at the dex entries for Pidgey, shall we?

    A common sight in forests and woods. It flaps its wings at ground level to kick up blinding sand.

    Very docile. If attacked, it will often kick up sand to protect itself rather than fight back.

    If at all possible, it will try to avoid battles. Small or weak enemies are blown away by whirlwind.

    It usually hides in tall grass. Because it dislikes fighting, it protects itself by kicking up sand.

    Common in grassy areas and forests, it is very docile and will chase off enemies by flapping up sand.

    It rapidly flaps its wings in the grass, stirring up a dust cloud that drives insect prey out into the open.

    Pidgey has an extremely sharp sense of direction. It is capable of unerringly returning home to its nest, however far it may be removed from its familiar surroundings.

    Does not like to fight. It hides in tall grass and so on, foraging for food such as small bugs.

    A common sight in forests and woods. It flaps its wings at ground level to kick up blinding sand.

    It is docile and prefers to avoid conflict. If disturbed, however, it can ferociously strike back.
    As we can see, if anything the dex entries construct a personality for Pidgey. The same goes for Rattata as well, but I'm not posting the entries to save space.
    MK Wii FC: 4125-3565-2043

    98% of teenagers cannot perform basic math. If you're one of the 7% who can, copy and paste this into your sig.

    I hack pokemon with my AR. Don't like it? Tough.

    FFIII DS sucks, and MMX6 sucks even more, but MMX7 is just crap.

    It is said that when it roars, a volcano erupts somewhere around the globe.

    ENTEI embodies the passion of magma. This POKEMON is thought to have been born in the eruption of a volcano. It blasts fire that consumes all it touches.

    ENTEI learns Roar at level 15.
    >_<

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon-dana
    But seriously, I agree with BitchBlast's point from a few posts back.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    I'm here but not all there
    Posts
    263

    Default

    Think about it like this:

    In Ancient China there was ONE language, but the characters varied from region to region.

    In Pokemon World the was ONE language, but the syllabication varied from Pokemon to Pokemon
    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    YOUR DOG IS NOT A POKEMON.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurried Rains View Post
    Female Alakazam. Oh hot damn I love a girl with a mustache.
    Quote Originally Posted by Azereus View Post
    You don't think a muscular female body builder without a shirt isn't disturbing? I guess we're all different when it comes to social norms...

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Google Maps
    Posts
    1,269

    Default

    Pokemon are really intelligent in their own way. Y'know the French/English words that look and mean alike? That's probably what Pokemon hear from eachother, and interrpret into their own form.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Well, it just seems to be a language comprised of syllables. Besides, they're magical, intelligent creatures. I'm sure they found a way.
    "Getting pride from simply being part of a group is stupid. Especially when anybody can join said group."

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    What you fail to understand is simple.

    YOUR DOG IS NOT A POKEMON.

    The two should not even be compared.
    Both are animals capable of learning simple and limitted commands. I don't see why not?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    And, as I stated, the games say nothing about this at all. On the other hand, both Special and the anime, which are two detailed views of pokemon, both say pokemon are quite capable of understanding human speech.
    http://serebii.net/anime/epiguide/johto/197.shtml


    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    Contradictions usually only occur due to later features (such as Pichu for the baby Pikachus in an early episode), or just for the sake of the plot (the whole ground type thing). Other then that, the anime is a good source for taking information about the world of pokemon as a whole.
    Small animals appearing on regular basis throughout the first season, but never again afterwards. Experience level being important in some battles, yet completely being ignored in others. Battling rules changing from gym battle to gym battle (such as the sudden rule that only the strongest Pokémon from a Gym needs to be beaten, in his battle against Whitney). Type advantages and disadvantages being incredibally inconsistant. The characters suddenly having seen newer generation Pokémon in their childhood, when in the first season they knew for sure there were only 150 Pokémon, and every of the Johto Pokémon was special.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    Let's try looking at the dex entries for Pidgey, shall we?



    As we can see, if anything the dex entries construct a personality for Pidgey. The same goes for Rattata as well, but I'm not posting the entries to save space.
    The personality described in the Pokédex entries is very primal. It lives purely on its urges to feed and protect itself. It doesn't form a society with others in its species such as intelligent creatures tend to do.
    The description of Pidgey in the Pokédex perfectly fits a general bird.
    Same with Rattata. It is described as general vermin that live only to feed and reproduce.
    In no Pokédex entry is any form of intelligence implied.

    I'd also like you to explain why it is so special for a Lapras to be able to understand human language, when every Pokémon can do it.

    Legend of Zelda: Hoenn Adventures is currently dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile Guy View Post
    He didn't win the argument, he was just more stubborn than you were.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jellsprout View Post
    I was wondering one some one was going to bring up that episode. (No, seriously, I've seen this kind of thread 15 times and nobody has brought that episode up, kind of makes you think.)

    Any ways, you really can't compare Pokemon to animals. I don't care how much they look like animals, they are just way too different to possibly be animals.
    "Getting pride from simply being part of a group is stupid. Especially when anybody can join said group."

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    On the floor
    Posts
    4,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jellsprout View Post
    Both are animals capable of learning simple and limitted commands. I don't see why not?
    *sigh*

    Is your dog magic? Can it breathe fire? Can it move boulders? Can it think? Can it eat candy? Can it be bred with other species?

    No.

    YOUR DOG IS NOT A POKEMON.

    Face it, you've lost this part of the argument. There is no conceivable way you could equate your dog to a pokemon. Hell. by the reasons you give humans are pokemon.

    Small animals appearing on regular basis throughout the first season, but never again afterwards. Experience level being important in some battles, yet completely being ignored in others. Battling rules changing from gym battle to gym battle (such as the sudden rule that only the strongest Pok&#233;mon from a Gym needs to be beaten, in his battle against Whitney). Type advantages and disadvantages being incredibally inconsistant. The characters suddenly having seen newer generation Pok&#233;mon in their childhood, when in the first season they knew for sure there were only 150 Pok&#233;mon, and every of the Johto Pok&#233;mon was special.
    For one, gym battle rules are mainly determined by gym leaders, so moot point there.

    For two, I already stated that any errors caused due to newer games can not be counted for obvious reasons.

    And finally, you're trying to equate all of the game's rules to the anime. Doesn't work like that, sorry.

    The personality described in the Pok&#233;dex entries is very primal. It lives purely on its urges to feed and protect itself. It doesn't form a society with others in its species such as intelligent creatures tend to do.
    The description of Pidgey in the Pok&#233;dex perfectly fits a general bird.
    Same with Rattata. It is described as general vermin that live only to feed and reproduce.
    In no Pok&#233;dex entry is any form of intelligence implied.
    I honestly have no idea how you got "lives purely on its urges to feed and protect itself" out of the dex entries for Rattata and Pidgey. Neither of them say anything about that; both only repeatedly mention that Pidgey does not like fighting but it will if it must, and that Rattata is cautious, eats everything. and breeds fast.

    I'd also like you to explain why it is so special for a Lapras to be able to understand human language, when every Pok&#233;mon can do it.
    ...what? When was it stated that Lapras understanding human language was special? Hell, when was any thing like that ever mentioned at all?

    Last time I checked, about all we ever learned about Lapras and humans is that Lapras didn't trust humans at first.

    As for that episode... what about it? That man tried talking in the language Pikachu normally speak in, but he didn't really have to in the first place. Hell, all he was doing was taking out the part of the equation where humans have to figure out what Pokemon say.
    Last edited by BlitzBlast; 10th December 2009 at 1:36 AM.
    MK Wii FC: 4125-3565-2043

    98% of teenagers cannot perform basic math. If you're one of the 7% who can, copy and paste this into your sig.

    I hack pokemon with my AR. Don't like it? Tough.

    FFIII DS sucks, and MMX6 sucks even more, but MMX7 is just crap.

    It is said that when it roars, a volcano erupts somewhere around the globe.

    ENTEI embodies the passion of magma. This POKEMON is thought to have been born in the eruption of a volcano. It blasts fire that consumes all it touches.

    ENTEI learns Roar at level 15.
    >_<

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon-dana
    But seriously, I agree with BitchBlast's point from a few posts back.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    *sigh*

    Is your dog magic? Can it breathe fire? Can it move boulders? Can it think? Can it eat candy? Can it be bred with other species?

    No.

    YOUR DOG IS NOT A POKEMON.

    Face it, you've lost this part of the argument. There is no conceivable way you could equate your dog to a pokemon. Hell. by the reasons you give humans are pokemon.
    Since when is being able to speak the human language a requirement for moving boulders? Or breathing fire?
    Yes, dogs generally do eat candy, even if it is bad for them. Like chocolate.
    Besides the philosphy behind thinking, is it implied anywhere in the games that Pok&#233;mon are able to think on human level?
    If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, what is it?



    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    And finally, you're trying to equate all of the game's rules to the anime. Doesn't work like that, sorry.
    I didn't compare anything to the games. Experience level was important in Ash's final battle on the Orange Islands, yet becomes moot every time he enters a new region, when a newly catched Pok&#233;mon is immediatly as strong as his level 100 Pikachu.
    Grass Pok&#233;mon were immune to Electric attacks during the Kanto Champions League, yet at most other times any Grass Pok&#233;mon is OHKO'd by a random Thundershock.
    In Whitney's Gym Battle, the "only need to beat strongest Pok&#233;mon" wasn't said as if it were a Gym specific rule, but rather a rule which counted for the entire League.


    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    I honestly have no idea how you got "lives purely on its urges to feed and protect itself" out of the dex entries for Rattata and Pidgey. Neither of them say anything about that; both only repeatedly mention that Pidgey does not like fighting but it will if it must, and that Rattata is cautious, eats everything. and breeds fast.
    If you would put these Pok&#233;dex entries in the encyclopedia under that sparrow or the field mouse, nobody would notice the difference.
    The Pok&#233;mon are portrayed more like generic animals here than intelligent and sophisticated creatures.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    ...what? When was it stated that Lapras understanding human language was special? Hell, when was any thing like that ever mentioned at all?

    Last time I checked, about all we ever learned about Lapras and humans is that Lapras didn't trust humans at first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stadium Pok&#233;dex entry
    Capable of understanding the language of humans, it enjoys ferrying people on its back. It is on the verge of extinction.
    Quote Originally Posted by FireRed Pok&#233;dex entry
    Its high intelligence enables it to understand human speech. It likes to ferry people on its back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diamond/Pearl/Platinum Pok&#233;dex entry
    It loves crossing the sea with people and Pokemon on its back. It understands human speech.
    Quote Originally Posted by TCG flavor text
    Lapras: This gentle Pok&#233;mon can understand human language and allows people to ride on its back.
    It is made pretty clear that because Lapras has an unusual high level of intelligence, it is able to understand human. Something which obviously isn't common in the Pok&#233;mon realm.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    As for that episode... what about it? That man tried talking in the language Pikachu normally speak in, but he didn't really have to in the first place. Hell, all he was doing was taking out the part of the equation where humans have to figure out what Pokemon say.
    ...how ignorant are you? There is a group of criminals wanted because they claim they are able to talk to Pok&#233;mon, they kidnap an old man because he claims he too is able to talk to Pok&#233;mon, the gang considers him special because he claims to be able to talk to Pok&#233;mon, the old man eventually realises he can't talk to Pok&#233;mon after all. This episode isn't just an indication, it is clear, 100&#37; proof that Pok&#233;mon don't understand humans.

    Legend of Zelda: Hoenn Adventures is currently dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile Guy View Post
    He didn't win the argument, he was just more stubborn than you were.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    On the floor
    Posts
    4,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jellsprout View Post
    Since when is being able to speak the human language a requirement for moving boulders? Or breathing fire?
    Yes, dogs generally do eat candy, even if it is bad for them. Like chocolate.
    Besides the philosphy behind thinking, is it implied anywhere in the games that Pokémon are able to think on human level?
    If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck, what is it?
    ...your first line makes no sense. I have no idea how you got "it can speak the human language so it can do stuff" from "it can understand human language and it can do stuff".

    And thank you for confirming my point: the games do not say anything, thus we must go with Special and the anime on this.

    And for your last point, you realize it could just as well be a human dressed as a duck right? Or hell, it could be Donald Duck.

    I didn't compare anything to the games. Experience level was important in Ash's final battle on the Orange Islands, yet becomes moot every time he enters a new region, when a newly catched Pokémon is immediatly as strong as his level 100 Pikachu.
    Grass Pokémon were immune to Electric attacks during the Kanto Champions League, yet at most other times any Grass Pokémon is OHKO'd by a random Thundershock.
    In Whitney's Gym Battle, the "only need to beat strongest Pokémon" wasn't said as if it were a Gym specific rule, but rather a rule which counted for the entire League.
    ...you don't really know much about this, do you?

    The sheer fact you mentioned that Pikachu is level 100 means you have no ****ing clue how the anime works.

    As for Whitney, may I note that you're really just reading too far into what was said? Really, it's rather simple: gymleaders give badges to trainers they respect. When Ash beat Miltank, he gained Whitney's respect, and he got the badge just like that. In other words, the basic rules of pokemon battling stay the same from gym to gym, but everything else is dependent on the gym leader.

    If you would put these Pokédex entries in the encyclopedia under that sparrow or the field mouse, nobody would notice the difference.
    The Pokémon are portrayed more like generic animals here than intelligent and sophisticated creatures.
    For one, yes there would be quite a difference, what with the "blows away with whirlwinds" and the "can live anywhere".

    Also, note that this is the ****ing pokedex. You've got, at best, two pages of basic description. And accuracy isn't exactly the top priority.

    It is made pretty clear that because Lapras has an unusual high level of intelligence, it is able to understand human. Something which obviously isn't common in the Pokémon realm.
    You're going to have to show proof here, because I recall that the only thing that was stated about Lapras and humans was that Lapras was afraid of the latter.

    ...how ignorant are you? There is a group of criminals wanted because they claim they are able to talk to Pokémon, they kidnap an old man because he claims he too is able to talk to Pokémon, the gang considers him special because he claims to be able to talk to Pokémon, the old man eventually realises he can't talk to Pokémon after all. This episode isn't just an indication, it is clear, 100% proof that Pokémon don't understand humans.
    ...I'm beginning to wonder about your common sense.

    See, all the episode really stated was that the HUMAN couldn't speak POKEMON. It said nothing about whether or not the POKEMON could understand HUMAN.

    God, I suddenly understand your signature.
    MK Wii FC: 4125-3565-2043

    98% of teenagers cannot perform basic math. If you're one of the 7% who can, copy and paste this into your sig.

    I hack pokemon with my AR. Don't like it? Tough.

    FFIII DS sucks, and MMX6 sucks even more, but MMX7 is just crap.

    It is said that when it roars, a volcano erupts somewhere around the globe.

    ENTEI embodies the passion of magma. This POKEMON is thought to have been born in the eruption of a volcano. It blasts fire that consumes all it touches.

    ENTEI learns Roar at level 15.
    >_<

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon-dana
    But seriously, I agree with BitchBlast's point from a few posts back.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    If Pokemon can't understand humans, then how did Meowth learn how to speak human?
    "Getting pride from simply being part of a group is stupid. Especially when anybody can join said group."

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    US
    Posts
    351

    Default

    That's the cartoon. Games =/= anime.
    Quote Originally Posted by col_serra View Post
    but mew is jesus
    ALL HAIL KING NEPTUNE AND HIS WATER BREATHERS!

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPostman View Post
    That's the cartoon. Games =/= anime.
    Oh, so we're talking about the game cannon.

    I thought we were talking about canons in general since the thread poster was usuing examples from both the games and the anime.
    Last edited by Kim62; 11th December 2009 at 1:45 AM.
    "Getting pride from simply being part of a group is stupid. Especially when anybody can join said group."

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    On the floor
    Posts
    4,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPostman View Post
    That's the cartoon. Games =/= anime.
    While normally this would be valid, the game says absolutely nothing concrete about this.

    Thus we have to use the anime and Special as sources.

    Really though, I have no idea how I forgot about Meowth and his backstory.
    MK Wii FC: 4125-3565-2043

    98% of teenagers cannot perform basic math. If you're one of the 7% who can, copy and paste this into your sig.

    I hack pokemon with my AR. Don't like it? Tough.

    FFIII DS sucks, and MMX6 sucks even more, but MMX7 is just crap.

    It is said that when it roars, a volcano erupts somewhere around the globe.

    ENTEI embodies the passion of magma. This POKEMON is thought to have been born in the eruption of a volcano. It blasts fire that consumes all it touches.

    ENTEI learns Roar at level 15.
    >_<

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon-dana
    But seriously, I agree with BitchBlast's point from a few posts back.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    US
    Posts
    351

    Default

    One thing to remember is that the games set the canon, not the other way around. Other media can't be taken as fact over them. Adventure isn't the only comic out there, and the cartoon can't even be internally consistent.

    Why do the games have to say anything? This is one of those things that falls under Occam's Razor. With your logic, since the games don't tell us what Pokemon eat (especially since you ignore the pokedex), I say they eat people. They also never sleep or poop, so they obviously don't do those things either. Who is Red's father? Simple, he doesn't have one. We just can't know!

    On a side note, why would humans be in charge if all pokes were just as intelligent as them? Thanks, terrible cartoon logic, you saved the day again.

    The way you ignored the Lapras thing on the previous page tells me not to continue with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by col_serra View Post
    but mew is jesus
    ALL HAIL KING NEPTUNE AND HIS WATER BREATHERS!

  21. #46
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    A white Van with no windows...
    Posts
    3,840

    Default

    *facepalm*
    the reason things such as Eating Pokemon(and thus Killing), pooping, etc. its a KID'S game, and the games do reference sleeping, pewter's jigglypuff, NPCs, the SLEEP status? and eating Berries, pokeblocks, and poffins?
    and the pokedex is the last place you should pick canon for the series as a whole from, it lies and contradicts itself time and time again(endangered Lapras? I just breed 2,000 and realesed them). Pay attention to what the NPCs say, as well as the myths, pokemon may be intelligent, but it's their nature to battle with one another(not kill think more like professional boxing, not cockfighting) to prove dominise(spelling?) and such, the COEXIST with humans, either as playmates, partners, & pets.-Prof. Oak

    now seeing as pokemon are intelligent, they are not below baisic telepathy, or body motions, most species can tell what the other species is feeling from the growls(cris of pokemon) and their pose. the games will probally never address it because is it really that important that it ceases your gameplay? The anime is what pesters me with them saying their names, that's practicaly english, just with limited letters/vocabulary.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPostman View Post
    One thing to remember is that the games set the canon, not the other way around. Other media can't be taken as fact over them. Adventure isn't the only comic out there, and the cartoon can't even be internally consistent.
    That would be good except we are talking about canon in general. We can't only talk about game canon because you want to.
    "Getting pride from simply being part of a group is stupid. Especially when anybody can join said group."

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    1,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    ...your first line makes no sense. I have no idea how you got "it can speak the human language so it can do stuff" from "it can understand human language and it can do stuff".

    And thank you for confirming my point: the games do not say anything, thus we must go with Special and the anime on this.

    And for your last point, you realize it could just as well be a human dressed as a duck right? Or hell, it could be Donald Duck.
    You said "It is more intelligent than a dog because it can breath fire". I say "the ability to breath fire and intelligence have no corrolation".


    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    ...you don't really know much about this, do you?

    The sheer fact you mentioned that Pikachu is level 100 means you have no ****ing clue how the anime works.
    It was said in the final Orange Islands battle, when Ash's Bulbasaur is battling Drake's Electabuzz, that despite Bulbasaur having type advantage, he still lost because Drake's Electabuzz had a much higher experience level. This battling didn't use any strategy or intelligence, so you can't claim that this was referring to Electabuzz having more experience with battling and therefor has a better strategy.
    Yet in the Kanto Champions League, Ash's Krabby, that was weak enough for Ash to catch without battling, and hadn't had a battle in his life, managed to beat all three Pokémon of Ash's first opponent without any trouble at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    As for Whitney, may I note that you're really just reading too far into what was said? Really, it's rather simple: gymleaders give badges to trainers they respect. When Ash beat Miltank, he gained Whitney's respect, and he got the badge just like that. In other words, the basic rules of pokemon battling stay the same from gym to gym, but everything else is dependent on the gym leader.
    IIRC, it wasn't Whitney that said it, but her assistant. And he said that it was the rule Ash only had to beat the strongest Pokémon. Respect had nothing to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    For one, yes there would be quite a difference, what with the "blows away with whirlwinds" and the "can live anywhere".

    Also, note that this is the ****ing pokedex. You've got, at best, two pages of basic description. And accuracy isn't exactly the top priority.
    The accuracy is good enough. It still gives a good picture of the Pokémon in the wild. Still, none of the entries indicate any human level intelligence in Pokémon, while many indicate animal level intelligence.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    You're going to have to show proof here, because I recall that the only thing that was stated about Lapras and humans was that Lapras was afraid of the latter.
    This explains why you are failing so bad. You are unable to read. I gave 4 Pokédex entries and the flavor text of a TCG card, which each mention that Lapras is able to understand human, I even bolded those parts, yet you still missed it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
    ...I'm beginning to wonder about your common sense.

    See, all the episode really stated was that the HUMAN couldn't speak POKEMON. It said nothing about whether or not the POKEMON could understand HUMAN.
    Bolding and oversizing some words doesn't make them any more true. The special thing about the old man wasn't that he was supposed to understand Pokémon. I don't even think he ever claimed that. The special thing was that he was supposed to be able to speak the Pokémon language. Do you even know what episode I'm talking about?


    The Meowth being able to speak is just another clear example of the inconsitancies in the animé, and a reason why it should be disregarded when figuring out a canon. The Meowth made it seem that with a little determination, every Pokémon could talk the human language or could walk on two legs. In fact, Ash and Misty weren't surprised at all when they first heard Meowth speak or saw him walk. Yet in 5 regions, he is still the only Pokémon capable of doing either of this. It doesn't make any sense.

    Legend of Zelda: Hoenn Adventures is currently dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smile Guy View Post
    He didn't win the argument, he was just more stubborn than you were.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Valhalla
    Posts
    1,947

    Default

    pokemon are awesome. enough said. They seem to be intelligent enough to communicate with each other, and with humans. SO why not?
    3DS FC: 0748-3041-6462

    Fictionpress / Buy My Book! / Hero's Path

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    On the floor
    Posts
    4,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPostman View Post
    One thing to remember is that the games set the canon, not the other way around. Other media can't be taken as fact over them. Adventure isn't the only comic out there, and the cartoon can't even be internally consistent.
    I know this. The fact is though,t he only thing the game states on the matter is Canalave Library's legends, and NPC talk, which can't really be taken as concrete; the former due to the fact that, well, it's a legend, and the second because... well, I don't know why people don't take the second as concrete.

    Why do the games have to say anything? This is one of those things that falls under Occam's Razor. With your logic, since the games don't tell us what Pokemon eat (especially since you ignore the pokedex), I say they eat people. They also never sleep or poop, so they obviously don't do those things either. Who is Red's father? Simple, he doesn't have one. We just can't know!
    ....What?

    The anime and Special are both probably the most well known interpretations of the pokemon world, with the latter even having the backing of the creator himself. In other words, if the game doesn't say something, but the anime/Special does, until the game says something different the anime/Special explanation will be used.

    Also, the only time I truly ignore the Pokedex is in the case of legendary pokemon, due to the complete reliance on Legends. Other then that, I realize the Pokedex is basically a field guide of sorts, telling you only the most basic information.

    Not to mention it's stated in-game that Pokemon can eat candy and poffin. Not to mention the fact that Pokemon have a Sleep status effect, and that the NPCs that heal you that aren't Nurse Joys state that your pokemon need a rest. Don't have anything about the poop though. And for Red's father, he hasn't been introduced anywhere (though slightly referenced in the anime so we know he at least exists), but until there is a real solid statement, sure you can believe Red doesn't have a father if you want to.

    On a side note, why would humans be in charge if all pokes were just as intelligent as them? Thanks, terrible cartoon logic, you saved the day again.
    Pokemon MD shows that Pokemon can get along fine without humans. As for why Pokemon wokl with humans, it's the entire theme of the games: trust and respect.

    The way you ignored the Lapras thing on the previous page tells me not to continue with you.
    Actually, I still have no idea what anyone meant about the Lapras thing. Hell, I'm not even sure which Lapras we're talking about here. The anime one? An in-game one?

    Never mind, found it. I have absolutely no idea how I missed that to tell the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by jellsprout View Post
    You said "It is more intelligent than a dog because it can breath fire". I say "the ability to breath fire and intelligence have no corrolation".
    ...what? How.. what... HOW THE HELL DID YOU READ THAT?

    You stated your dog was a pokemon because it could learn commands. I pointed out it was incapable of doing the majority of the magical things pokemon can do. In no way did I state that because it could do these magical things it is more intelligent. In fact, my whole point was that pokemon can do these magic, unrealistic things and really can't be judged by real life standards.


    It was said in the final Orange Islands battle, when Ash's Bulbasaur is battling Drake's Electabuzz, that despite Bulbasaur having type advantage, he still lost because Drake's Electabuzz had a much higher experience level. This battling didn't use any strategy or intelligence, so you can't claim that this was referring to Electabuzz having more experience with battling and therefor has a better strategy.
    I mean, it's not like experience could possibly refer to things like aiming, using stronger attacks, or just all around knowlege of how to battle, right?

    Man, I suck at giving examples.

    Yet in the Kanto Champions League, Ash's Krabby, that was weak enough for Ash to catch without battling, and hadn't had a battle in his life, managed to beat all three Pok&#233;mon of Ash's first opponent without any trouble at all.
    Strategy and tenacity. Ever heard of them?

    IIRC, it wasn't Whitney that said it, but her assistant. And he said that it was the rule Ash only had to beat the strongest Pok&#233;mon. Respect had nothing to do with it.
    Because Ash beating Whitney's strongest pokemon wouldn't earn her respect, and thus her badge. Nope.

    Either way, I really don't recall much about that episode, so do you think you could give me a transcript?

    The accuracy is good enough. It still gives a good picture of the Pok&#233;mon in the wild. Still, none of the entries indicate any human level intelligence in Pok&#233;mon, while many indicate animal level intelligence.
    As I stated earlier, after some thinking on the matter due to this debate, I now see the Pokedex as a field guide of sorts, only stating the most basic of information, and maybe a little trivia.

    This explains why you are failing so bad. You are unable to read. I gave 4 Pok&#233;dex entries and the flavor text of a TCG card, which each mention that Lapras is able to understand human, I even bolded those parts, yet you still missed it.
    To be truthful, I didn't actually notice that. Yeah, epic fail on my part.

    Anyway... I take this to just mean that Lapras has more intelligence then the average pokemon. Probably not the level of an Alakazam, but that it just understands english more easily, or just shows that it understands english more easily. I mean, people used it for transport; they probably noticed that Lapras very quickly responded to directions.

    Interpretation FTW. Really though, I have no real counter to this, other then my own interpretation of it.

    Bolding and oversizing some words doesn't make them any more true. The special thing about the old man wasn't that he was supposed to understand Pok&#233;mon. I don't even think he ever claimed that. The special thing was that he was supposed to be able to speak the Pok&#233;mon language. Do you even know what episode I'm talking about?
    How do you still not understand this? I'm pointing out that all that was resolved was that that man could not speak pokemon. Nothing was said about whether or not pokemon could understand humans, or at least according to the episode summary you provided.

    Here, let's give an example. There's a man who thinks he can speak German. He goes over to Germany and tries communicating with Germans. Now, somebody asks for his services as a translator, and after some hijinks the man discovers that he can not speak German. Does this mean that people who speak German can not understand humans at all?

    ...damn, I still suck at examples.

    The Meowth being able to speak is just another clear example of the inconsitancies in the anim&#233;, and a reason why it should be disregarded when figuring out a canon. The Meowth made it seem that with a little determination, every Pok&#233;mon could talk the human language or could walk on two legs. In fact, Ash and Misty weren't surprised at all when they first heard Meowth speak or saw him walk. Yet in 5 regions, he is still the only Pok&#233;mon capable of doing either of this. It doesn't make any sense.
    Looking at Meowth's own backstory episode, it seems Pokemon just don't want to learn human.

    Anyway, I have no real way to counter the Lapras point, so this might be the end of this fun, if slightly frustrating (on both ends, I'm sure) debate.
    Last edited by BlitzBlast; 12th December 2009 at 1:27 AM.
    MK Wii FC: 4125-3565-2043

    98% of teenagers cannot perform basic math. If you're one of the 7% who can, copy and paste this into your sig.

    I hack pokemon with my AR. Don't like it? Tough.

    FFIII DS sucks, and MMX6 sucks even more, but MMX7 is just crap.

    It is said that when it roars, a volcano erupts somewhere around the globe.

    ENTEI embodies the passion of magma. This POKEMON is thought to have been born in the eruption of a volcano. It blasts fire that consumes all it touches.

    ENTEI learns Roar at level 15.
    >_<

    Quote Originally Posted by Umbreon-dana
    But seriously, I agree with BitchBlast's point from a few posts back.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •