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Thread: Bye Blissey; how certain pokes and moves will change the metagame

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    Default Bye Blissey; how certain pokes and moves will change the metagame

    Oh, we must remember the days of Chansey/Blissey.

    In 1st gen, Chansey was a veritable Special machine of destruction, and a tank.
    Then 2nd gen rolled around, it became Blissey, and Special was split, but it remained the Special tank.
    In 3rd gen it remained the same as 2nd, mostly.
    With 4th gen and its Special fighting moves and variety of mixed attackers, but it still held the line!

    But now we must look at the new move, Psycho Shock. It attacks with Sp. Attack, but hits Defense. And as a TM, any Special attacker worth its salt has it now; from Alakazam to Ninetales, Togekiss to Starmie, everything will be killing this poor Special tank we all know and love.

    So how will moves like this, and new pokemon and their abilities change the metagame? This is an open-ended discussion on the subject, so feel free to bring up anything (and yes, we have all heard of Drizzle Politoed, Drought Ninetales, and Speed-Boost Blaziken). Also discuss the viability of new pokemon and how some will linger behind, and some will come forward into the OU wonder.

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    With a "pre-evolution" Stone held, Chansey can tank Physical hits better than Swampert. Psychic also has horrible coverage.

    Oddly I expect both Chansey and Blissey to be OU this gen. Chansey due to mixed walling and Blissey for its ability to actually attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    With a "pre-evolution" Stone held, Chansey can tank Physical hits better than Swampert. Psychic also has horrible coverage.

    Oddly I expect both Chansey and Blissey to be OU this gen. Chansey due to mixed walling and Blissey for its ability to actually attack.
    But Chansey's Defense will still be fairly bad, though it has the HP advantage. Blissey
    might also go by the wayside because it is outclassed by Chansey as a special tank due to the Evolution Stone.

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    Defense will be about average to an OU sweeper, but 650+ HP will give it more durability that Swampert. Imagine switching Chansey in on mixmence Outrage and laughing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Defense will be about average to an OU sweeper, but 650+ HP will give it more durability that Swampert. Imagine switching Chansey in on mixmence Outrage and laughing.
    True, and with the new 90-accuracy Toxic it barely even needs an offensive move.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerophoenix View Post
    True, and with the new 90-accuracy Toxic it barely even needs an offensive move.
    Well, it still has Seismic Toss.

    This is copied directly from Smogon so I take no credit for this:

    Blissey is saved by one little thing - Leftovers, which almost negates advantage which Chansey has here. Chansey has 30 SpD points LESS then Chansey, which is huge difference. If Blissey switches directly - it looses when compared to Chansey. However when Blissey switch in while not taking hit, she fares a bit better, as this little Leftovers helps in this case. And most important thing - Blissey may use special attacks, while Chansey means free boost for Ghost type Pokemon. But yeah, Chansey gains a huge boost with this Stone, which this proves. Anyway, Chansey surprisingly with this boost may be compared to Blissey. Heck, may be even better in some situations. But still - Chansey still struggle against strong physical attackers and unlike Blissey can't threat any switch-in with SE effective offensive attack, making her much less vulnerable against stat-up users. Just to end this - Chansey is another Pokemon, which gains second life as a NFE Pokemon and will surely find a place in some teams, even in higher tiers.

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    Other pokemon not to be ignored are Poison-Heal Gliscor and Denchura with Compoundeyes and Thunder as a defensive and offensive threat respectively.

    EDIT: Also I can see anything with Shell Armour (like Daikenki) good againt the new auto-crit moves that will destroy defense-boosting pokemon, and the Storm Drain Cradily might destroy Water types.

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    Are there any speedy Anger Point Pokemon that can take a hit against those guaranteed critical moves? The only ones I can remember are Tauros and Primeape, but they may need choice scarf or salac berry to pull it off...

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkgamerGS View Post
    Are there any speedy Anger Point Pokemon that can take a hit against those guaranteed critical moves? The only ones I can remember are Tauros and Primeape, but they may need choice scarf or salac berry to pull it off...
    Camerupt and the Meguroko line are the only other ones.
    Final croc evo has 92 speed, so I'm afraid your options are very limited.

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    Chansey can't carry a Shed Shell. Especially with Seismic Toss, she is utter set-up bait for Wobbuffet and Chandelier, or Wynaut if those two get banned.
    Wynaut and Wobby can Encore her into a supportive attack, such as Softboiled, and proceed to Tickle her to -6 where she can get taken out by a Pursuit, or she can be used as a free set-up for Lucario or one of the Dragons.
    Chandelier can set up a Sub to block Toxic, is immune to Seismic Toss and can proceed to set-up to +6/+6/+6.
    I don't know if Gothgirl gets any useful support moves, but I doubt Chansey will enjoy staying in against her either.

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    I think Chansey and Blissey will still barely be in OU. Chansey because of the Pre-Evo Stone and Blissey is still pretty good, but not as good as she was in the 4th Gen.
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    We'll see if chansey is going to be that powerfull, otherwise knock off will be quite a popular move, or weavile's new ability will be standard for countering these NFE walls. Maybe Sandstorm and Hail will get even more popular.

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    hey guys i don't know if you've heard but wish now heals half of the USER'S HP (my friend tested this and there have been multiple confirmations to add to this) so blissey will probably be used just because it can pretty much give everything a free rest without the sleep. psycho shock will obviously smack it around a bit and it doesn't seem like a lot of people realise this yet but it isn't going to be some blissey-killer sending it into the depths of BL.

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    Because of Shanderaa, Blissey will be still be used.
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    I can't see Blissey falling out of OU.
    However, I can see Politoed and Ninetales rising due to their new abilities, and with them Storm Dish Cradily and Sun/Rain teams.

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    ^ Just to comment, Shanderaa is actually one of the few things that can clean 2HKO Bliss now. :/
    That being said though, I'm sure Bliss will remain OU because it's simply unmatched at special walling up to now. As mentioned already, Wish heals half of the user's HP. I don't even have to say how useful this would be on something as HP rich on Blissey.

    EDIT: Meant the reply in the first part for Overheat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Music View Post
    As mentioned already, Wish heals half of the user's HP. I don't even have to say how useful this would be on something as HP rich on Blissey.
    The problem with that is Wish Blissey will pretty much only be usable on battle sims. Getting an actual in-game one with anywhere near good IVs/nature would be almost impossible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkittyOnWailord View Post
    The problem with that is Wish Blissey will pretty much only be usable on battle sims. Getting an actual in-game one with anywhere near good IVs/nature would be almost impossible.
    Uh huh, unfortunately. Personally I only battle on Shoddy (and the new one at Smogon looks very promising) so it's only good news for simulator users. :/
    Bliss remains a top tier special wall nonetheless.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerophoenix View Post
    Other pokemon not to be ignored are Poison-Heal Gliscor and Denchura with Compoundeyes and Thunder as a defensive and offensive threat respectively.

    EDIT: Also I can see anything with Shell Armour (like Daikenki) good againt the new auto-crit moves that will destroy defense-boosting pokemon, and the Storm Drain Cradily might destroy Water types.
    Denchura doesn't really have a movepool that benefits from Compoundeyes other than Thunder, and it basically has terrible stats, especially with 130+ stats being tossed out in this gen.

    And I'm not positive on this yet, but I think that Poison Heal Glis can't get Roost.

    But yeah, going back to Psycho Shock, it's basically one of the moves in this gen that will make stall way less viable (it's already sadly not really viable in 5th gen, at least until it settles out and gets Shanderra and such banned). It'll also basically let Mewtwo kill anything in Ubers other than Spec. Defense Tar. c:

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    Denchura doesn't really have a movepool that benefits from Compoundeyes other than Thunder, and it basically has terrible stats, especially with 130+ stats being tossed out in this gen.[/quote]True enough, and I noticed it doesn't get Focus Blast, which would also have made it much more viable with Compoundeyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    And I'm not positive on this yet, but I think that Poison Heal Glis can't get Roost.
    Nor Stealth Rock.

    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    But yeah, going back to Psycho Shock, it's basically one of the moves in this gen that will make stall way less viable (it's already sadly not really viable in 5th gen, at least until it settles out and gets Shanderra and such banned). It'll also basically let Mewtwo kill anything in Ubers other than Spec. Defense Tar. c:
    Mewtwo gets his own version of the move with 100 base power that, yes, will kill Ubers. But yeah, I agree, Stalls aren't very useful right now in 5th gen. It's even more offensive than 4th, which is hard to do.

    Also, does anyone else think that with its typing, stats, ability and moveset Sazando will go Ubers like Garchomp (especially Rough Skin Garchomp)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerophoenix View Post
    Denchura doesn't really have a movepool that benefits from Compoundeyes other than Thunder, and it basically has terrible stats, especially with 130+ stats being tossed out in this gen. True enough, and I noticed it doesn't get Focus Blast, which would also have made it much more viable with Compoundeyes.

    Nor Stealth Rock.

    Mewtwo gets his own version of the move with 100 base power that, yes, will kill Ubers. But yeah, I agree, Stalls aren't very useful right now in 5th gen. It's even more offensive than 4th, which is hard to do.

    Also, does anyone else think that with its typing, stats, ability and moveset Sazando will go Ubers like Garchomp (especially Rough Skin Garchomp)?
    Yes, along with Ononokusu and maybe Aekosu. Ononokusu in particular because of it's typing giving no double weaknesses that eld back 'mence and 'chomp. No stealth rock weakness that held back 'mence even further is nonexistent.
    The only thing holding back the Dragons is their relatively poor speed allowing for easy Revenge killing. And ononokusu's lack of Stone Edge.(How stuff like Breloom, Mewtwo, Zuruzukin and Meloetta got this and this didn't will be the ultimate mystery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurawarrior8 View Post
    Yes, along with Ononokusu and maybe Aekosu.
    Not sure whom you mean by Aekosu ... cannot find him in the dex.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurawarrior8 View Post
    The only thing holding back the Dragons is their relatively poor speed allowing for easy Revenge killing. And ononokusu's lack of Stone Edge.(How stuff like Breloom, Mewtwo, Zuruzukin and Meloetta got this and this didn't will be the ultimate mystery.
    Ononokusu has decent speed, but in general this is agreed. Thoguh the double Ice weakness it lacks helps prevent revenge killing. I agree with the Stone Edge thing though ... it seems odd it will have to resort to Rock Slide, especially since it has big edges on its face.

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    cant 4th gen tms get passed down by breeding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arceus7 View Post
    cant 4th gen tms get passed down by breeding?
    Doubtful. You likely have to breed in DPPtHGSS Then trade to BW.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerophoenix View Post
    Not sure whom you mean by Aekosu ... cannot find him in the dex.
    Ononokusu has decent speed, but in general this is agreed. Thoguh the double Ice weakness it lacks helps prevent revenge killing. I agree with the Stone Edge thing though ... it seems odd it will have to resort to Rock Slide, especially since it has big edges on its face.
    Yeah, but it gets Dragon Dance to change that. I can see Ononokusu becoming uber for the same reasons Garchamp and Salamence did.
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