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Thread: Opposites Interact! (643)

  1. #26
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    Pretty good Grand Festival episode.
    I enjoyed the battle.
    I can't tell if it was a cheap win or not.
    I felt Dawn did a good job.
    I loved Ash cheering, he was cheering so hard for her ^^
    Dawn's dress was so pretty too.
    Another thing I loved was the begining, Ash face after what Gibble did was too funny.
    But yah I can see Gibble evolving at the end of this saga.
    If that's the case, Buzeil will be the only one left that is unevolved.
    Course he could do a shocker and evolve during the fight with Paul.

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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    LOL, you're joking right?

    Although the battle was entertaining, it was one of the cheapest contest battles in the entire series.

    Dawn has 1 tiny piece of points left, she gets hit 3 TIMES with countless Shadowballs on both Mamoswine/Pachirisu, and she doesn't lose points at all.

    Ursula really should have won this, but oh well.
    I agree with you Cyber. Since technically Ursula should've won this, this proves that all of the people who claim that Dawn should win her 1st Grand Festival (over all of her rivals in this competition) & is "entitled" to the Ribbon Cup just because of all of the crap she went through during her Contest arc are wrong. Even after all of the struggles that Dawn has gone through on her journey she barely "won" this match by the skin of her teeth & in reality would've lost.

    This was a cheap & unfair win for Dawn on the writers part who for the first time ever slipped up in making Dawn's win more realistic. If Dawn wins the Grand Festival now it won't be because she's "entitled" to get that cup, it'll be because the writers threw her a bone in this episode. Ursula deserved to win (& should've won), then Ursula should've beat Jessie in the semi-finals in the next episode, then the following episode after that should've been Ursula vs. Zoey in the finals if the writers were still trying to make this contest arc more realistic.
    Last edited by Sayho1234; 6th May 2010 at 10:32 PM.

  3. #28
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    I'm going to be honest, I thought this was a fantastic episode. Dawn and Ursula's battle was one of the best I've seen in a while. I know that everyone's griping about "how it was cheap," or "Dawn only won because she's a main character." I'll admit that some of the contest-point calculations were somewhat cheap (Ursula losing almost half of her points for Dawn simply forming the Ice Chandelier?) but I don't know why some of you can't just COMPLAINING and enjoy a good battle!

    Seriously, I know Dawn is looked down upon by some Anime fans, but today's battle just proves how strong of a co-ordinator she is. I don't care WHAT you say, she did some VERY good things out there: she thought on her feet, worked with what the environment gave her, and commanded with her Pokemon brilliantly. I would go as far to say that Mamoswine and Pachirisu are her best combination yet, since their contrasting abilities make them deadly as a team. Like Mamoswine's taking Pachirisu's Discharge, absorbing it, and turning it into an electrified Take Down? Just the tip of the iceberg. Having Pachirisu dive into Gabite's hole to safely execute the Ice Chandelier was smart thinking, and Mamoswine took hits from Flareon like champ!

    I know that, realistically, Dawn would have been eliminated long before she was, but she really stepped up her game at the end. I'm sad to see Ursula leave, but I'm VERY excited to see Dawn's next few battles, and if you ask me, she deserves to win the GF.
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  4. #29
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    Y'know, I was on the episode discussion thread for this on the forums at Bulbagarden, and most of the members there feel that Ursula did too much damage to Dawn's points considering the moves she used. And I actually agree with them. For me, the only snazzy move she used was that Sandstorm/Scary Face combo. Everything else was just like watching a regular Pokemon battle. Most of the glam seemed to come from Dawn's side, with her makeshift Ice Ball strategy. I think the main reason Ursula lost this one is because she was too focused on beating Dawn than she was on showing off her Pokemon, which is the whole idea of a contest, is it not?
    Remember when May had her first battle with Harley? After the tape recorder fiasco, she became too focused on beating Harley to care about the style of her Bulbasaur, and as a result, she nearly lost. This is basically what happened to Ursula. she was hell-bent on beating Dawn in the later stages of the battle, and so she lost in the end.
    By the by, what was that ground move that Mamo used near the end? Earth Power maybe? I dunno.

  5. #30

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    IS Ursula ever going to beat Dawn, or is she always going to be set up to lose to Dawn? This seems frustrating as I feel Ursula is the better trainer then Dawn, yet is being made to look like a sore losing brat each time she loses to Dawn. Are they going to meet again or is that going to be about it?

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charizard Lord View Post
    I'm going to be honest, I thought this was a fantastic episode. Dawn and Ursula's battle was one of the best I've seen in a while. I know that everyone's griping about "how it was cheap," or "Dawn only won because she's a main character." I'll admit that some of the contest-point calculations were somewhat cheap (Ursula losing almost half of her points for Dawn simply forming the Ice Chandelier?) but I don't know why some of you can't just COMPLAINING and enjoy a good battle!

    Seriously, I know Dawn is looked down upon by some Anime fans, but today's battle just proves how strong of a co-ordinator she is. I don't care WHAT you say, she did some VERY good things out there: she thought on her feet, worked with what the environment gave her, and commanded with her Pokemon brilliantly. I would go as far to say that Mamoswine and Pachirisu are her best combination yet, since their contrasting abilities make them deadly as a team. Like Mamoswine's taking Pachirisu's Discharge, absorbing it, and turning it into an electrified Take Down? Just the tip of the iceberg. Having Pachirisu dive into Gabite's hole to safely execute the Ice Chandelier was smart thinking, and Mamoswine took hits from Flareon like champ!

    I know that, realistically, Dawn would have been eliminated long before she was, but she really stepped up her game at the end. I'm sad to see Ursula leave, but I'm VERY excited to see Dawn's next few battles, and if you ask me, she deserves to win the GF.
    I don't know, I think it's a bad thing to have Ursula losing and then she acts like a stuck up brat about it. Isn't this also Dawn's last year, and they usually send off characters like Dawn after the 3rd season, ala May was gone after her 3rd year on Pokemon?

  7. #32
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    Cheapest battle ever. We all know that in a contest when your opponent dodges a move you lose point and still Dawn was stuck with those 10% points the whole battle if we don't consider the damage which both of Dawn's Pokemon took. And that Ice Ball stuff colliding with wall should also have made her lose some point and still at the end of battle she had same 10% points. It doesn't matter if Dawn wins or lose now cause she already lost in my opinion.
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  8. #33
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    The thing with the points might be that the writers didn't realize that taking many point early on would affect the end of the battle. Plus at the end Ursula was spaming Shadow ball, so the judges might have not been impressed with it making Dawn lose little to no points at the end. That or Ursula was looking to KO Dawns pokemon. On a side note is this the first time that Dawn Knock out another trainer pokemon in a contest. Because I can't remember.
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  9. #34
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    I have to agree that this was a cheap win. All I could think of during the battle was "damn, Ursula should have won by now". The only reason I could possibly think of that might excuse Dawn not losing points towards the end is that Ursula was doing the same move over and over again, which could be seen as boring, other than that I got nothing. I'm disappointed that Dawn's first win had to be like that, although it was tense IMO, regardless that I knew Dawn was going to win.

    Oh, obligatory comment about how cool Flareon's Scary Face was. XD
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  10. #35
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    SO, basically Dawn did a Mary-Sue here and won due to the mathematical retardity of the japanese writers.

    Something tells me they should have went back to school first, as Ursula basically had the battle won.


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  11. #36
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    Pfft.

    Rewatched.

    Start:

    Gabite blocks Discharge (NO POINTS LOST BY DAWN)
    Mamoswine uses electrified Take Down (URSULA LOSES ONE-SIXTH)
    Sandstorm+Scary Face combo (DAWN LOSES QUARTER)
    Double Team+Shadow Ball (DAWN LOSES QUARTER)
    - Adverts-
    Maybe too much lost by Dawn in the first half?

    - Trapped again. Hit by Shadow Ball. Mamoswine is hit and Pachi is running round like a maniac. (NO POINTS LOST BY DAWN)
    - Both are practically dead here. TBH, if the big red crosses happened here I wouldn't be shocked.
    - Booster uses Fire Spin and melts Ice Shard (NO POINTS LOST BY DAWN)
    - Dragon Claw (1/8 LOST BY DAWN)
    - Melts Ice Shard again (NO POINTS LOST BY DAWN)
    - Discharge hits Flareon (NO POINTS LOST BY URSULA)
    - Ice Chandelier (TOO MANY POINTS LOST BY URSULA FOR WHAT IS ESSENTIALLY A GLAMMED-UP HAMSTERBALL WITH SPARKLES)
    - Dig. Ice Chandelier is shattered (NO POINTS LOST BY DAWN. WHAT.)
    - Dig+Shadow Ball combo on Pachirisu (NO POINTS LOST)
    - Dig+SB combo on Mamoswine (1/8 LOST BY DAWN)
    - At least four more Shadow Ball hits (NO POINTS LOST BY DAWN. THIS IS JUST RIDICULOUS)
    - Mamoswine is hit by both Dragon Claw and Fire Fang (NO POINTS LOST BY DAWN. I WILL START SWEARING)
    - Two hits by Ice Chandelier (KO)

    This is really stupid. Ursula should be taking home the Ribbon Cup. She deserves it for being the best character in DP, at any rate. Shame that she's gone now. And if she was randomly nice to Dawn all of a sudden, that would've ruined her as a character- she's got more of it than all of Dawn's rivals/robots/Team Boring combined. And Ash's rivals come to that. Except maybe Paul. But they're tied.

    Thoughts?

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  12. #37

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    Cheapest win since the May/Brock battle in Kanto.


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  13. #38

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    I also agree with those who say that this was a cheap win for Dawn. She had been down to the skin of her teeth on points thanks to a combination of her pokemon taking damage and her attacks failing yet at the end, despite the fact that Flareon had kept destroying Mamoswine's Ice Ball, Dawn's attack with Pachirisu missed, and Dawn's pokemon kept being hit by Shadow Balls, Dawn wasn't losing any points. It would have been more forgivable Dawn had lost less points from the point deductions and she was still losing points the whole time, but the way they did it, it was a serious cop out for Dawn to win.

    Also I think it sucks that the writers didn't take advantage of Ash training his Gible and allow his Gible to meet her Gabite, I would have loved to see an interaction between the evolutionary stages. Also I wonder what she and Dawn were talking about backstage, she didn't seem to do her usual thing of getting mad about the loss and neither seemed to express any ill will towards one another, at least as far as their facial expressions go since there's never any subs and I can't understand what they're saying.

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  14. #39
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    Well, before getting to the "omg, this was cheap" section, I'd like to say that this was a really nice episode. The battle wasn't -amazing-, but it was very good and enough to keep with a great Grand Festival. The music used was very good and although the animation wasn't great, I guess it was decent enough.


    Everybody is saying that this was a cheap win for Dawn and I must ask... why? The way the point bar was handled? Please, if you really watch the battle without hoping to find flaws on Dawn's side; you'll see that the point bar was handled very badly on both sides. Let me watch every movement of the battle...

    *Pachirisu uses Discharge and is blocked by Gabite. No points lost. Usually, these kind of "but wait, there is more!" moves don't affect the points.

    *Discharge also hits Manmoo and it comboes with Take Down to hurt Gabite and Flareon. Urara loses like 1/6 of her points- too much imo, but as we'll see, there are worse ones.

    *Gabite uses Sandstorm and Pachirisu is sent flying away. Flareon comboes with Scary Face creating one of the most creative move combinations, cancelling Manmoo's AncientPower. Dawn loses 1/4 of her points- the combination was better than Dawn's so I guess it is alright..

    *Double Team + Shadow Ball combination comes next, stopping Manmoo & Pachirisu. Dawn loses another 1/4 of her points- really? Are they really telling us that this -standard- combination is better than the creative Discharge'd Take Down and on the same level as Scary Sand?

    *Here is when that 1/4 & 1/6 show that were too much.

    *Begins the Shadow Ball spam. There's nothing more to it, it was just Flareon throwing Balls like mad. Even more, Pachirisu was able to dodge all the Shadow Balls and Manmoo took all of them without flinching. No points lost- Both should have lost points here; Dawn for not being able to really counter the combination and Urara for just attacking without anything else and worse, because her rival avoided/took all the attacks.

    *Flareon counters Ice Shard with Fire Spin and Gabite counters... Pachirisu itself with Dragon Claw. Dawn loses like 1/8 of her bar. Was completely fair.

    *Flareon repeats last move. No points lost. Here, Dawn should have lost something like 1/16 of her bar- if she loses 1/8 when both moves get countered, half of that should apply here.

    *Pachirisu dodges Dragon Claw and hits Flareon with Spark cancelling Fire Spin. No points lost. Now, it's Urara's turn. She should have lost here at least something like the 1/8 of Dawn. Pachirisu, alone, was able to counter both of her Pokémon moves, but the judges didn't notice it.

    *And here is when the things get tricky. Here the clocks says "1:29" and Urara has only lost 1/4 and Dawn's bar points to her yellow dress. At "2:10" (just after Gabite's Dragon Claw hit on Pachirisu), Urara is above the 3/4 mark and Dawn is with less than half. That means that Flareon countering Ice Shard took almost 1/4 of Dawn's points. What? And that the above move of Pachirisu only took a bit of Urara. What? You're really telling me that is fair? How?

    *Dawn makes the first Ice Chandelier. The strange and creative combination destroys Urara's point bar. Although the IC is very good (and in this battle is the best combination) it shouldn't have reduced almost half of the point bar. But, it should have been more than 1/4 (Scary Sand isn't better).

    *IC is dodged by using Dig. No points lost. Dawn should have lost points, but not many points.

    *After taking two hits from the Dig/Shadow Ball combo and dodging Hidden Power, Dawn's bar now point to her red bow.

    *And here comes the outrage. But, let me tell you that from here until the end of the battle, no points are lost. Dawn's side takes 4 more Shadow Ball/Dig combos, a Dragon Claw and a Fire Fang. The 4 SB/Dig were just more spam from Urara, nothing different from the first two. The other moves were just attacks; nothing special about them.

    *Urara's side takes 2 Ice Chandeliers... but those Ice Chandeliers were different from each other and from the previous one. The 2nd IC was a combination of using an opponent move to your own advantage, Ice Shard + Discharge in the holes and AncientPower used in an unusual way. The 3rd IC was the same as 2nd IC but was powered-up by Manmoo's Hidden Power and was able to cancel Flareon's Fire Fang and Gabite's Sandstorm.

    *So, with that in mind, which side should have lost more points? Urara's or Dawn's? I think the answer is clearly Urara, yet she didn't lose points.


    Although the last part was really unfair on both sides (yeah, I can agree that by the time the IC hit, Dawn shouldn't have points left) the part that really changed everything was the "jump" from 2:10 to 1:29. Like I said before, Dawn lost almost 1/4 of her points just because Flareon countered Ice Shard... The worse part is that just before, the same thing + Gabite's counter made Dawn lost 1/8 of her bar and suddenly, half of that combination doubles the amount of points lost? Even worse is that they make Scary Sand, SB+DT combo and Fire Spin > Ice Shard the same. What? How is that even possible? Yeah, I know the last SB should have hurt Dawn's points, but at the same time, her points shouldn't be that low when we got to that part.

    See? The points bar was badly handled, that's a fact. It helped Dawn. But, it hindered her aswell. I don't get how the battle can be cheap (the cheapest one!) when it worked like that. Is anyone able to explain me? Or is that just another example that people like to call "cheap" and "unfair" to everything the main characters do without looking at the other side of the money?


    Whew, I guess I'm really tired of people complaining about cheapness.
    ----
    By the way, I guess I'm liking this battle more as I rewatch it. I kind of love all the music that was used here and both coordinators were good. Still, Urara vs. Dawn Part I & II are better Urara is a very good character and it was sad to see that she isn't staying for what is left of the GF. I would love to see her in a "The Unbeatable Lightness of Seeing" remake.

  15. #40
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    Cheap Or Not , Regardless of Points , I loved the battle
    Dawn Won , I'm Happy
    What's the Big Deal ? I Guess You guys Didn't realize Yet That The writers Love Dawn so Much.
    It was Just Contest Battle , Anime Show , etc ,etc
    & I agree with the Above Poster , I'm really tired of The complaints

  16. #41
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    Like others have said, this battle was pretty cheap, but I still enjoyed it. Flareons Scary Face + Gabites Sandstorm was awesome and so was Mamoswine and Pachirisu's Lightning Disco Ball thing. Ursala was definitely the better coordinator in this match and should have beaten Dawn, the way her pokemon were pummeling Dawn's should have netted her the win. But I'm glad Dawn is moving on and I hope the rest of her battles won't be as cheap as this one was. Great episode.

  17. #42
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    You people obviously have not been watching contests for the past 8 years. This wasn't cheap at all. The writers have NEVER been consistent on how many points you lose. People have lost a quarter of their points for not dodging yet barely lose any for being completely blown away. It can't be cheap when the writers/animators have never been consistent.

    I loved the battle. One of Dawn's best contest battles. Sad to see Ursula lose again though. She might as well get out her Cacturne hat now.

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  18. #43
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    ^ I 100% Agree
    Thank You !!!!

  19. #44
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    You cold so tell from the beginning Dawn was going to win the battle

  20. #45
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    -Blah blah boring training blah
    -Gible's Draco Meteor produced two meteors this time! ...and they're both heading for Piplup!
    -Togekiss smacks both meteors towards Ash and Gible in the most classy way possible.
    -I still hate Candy Musalina's Grand Festival outfit.
    -I can only imagine how much better this contest arc would have been if Ursula was introduced much, much earlier. There's actual tension when she's around!
    -Can we just start the goddamned battle already? We're practically halfway through the episode here and nothing's happened.
    -Using Mamoswine to pass electricity to Gabite and then Flareon? That's...actually kinda clever, even if it doesn't make much sense if you consider how many Ground types are involved in that chain of events.
    -That is one hell of a Scary Face.
    -...wait, is that some sort of instrumental version of the RSE Legendary Pokemon theme? I swear I hear the same melody line.
    -Oh look. Double Team. The most easily defeated move in the anime.
    -Dawn didn't even TRY having her Pokemon fire attacks in a circle? Come on woman! Beating Double Team isn't that hard.
    -Why yes Dawn, that shiny ice ball is very pretty. But how will you use that to actually attack things? They're only going to take a huge chunk off Ursula's score once for that thing, you know.
    -Ursula invalidates Dawn's entire strategy by having her Pokemon hide underground. Haha!
    -You know, it seems like a really bad idea to base your success on ONE move working. I mean, sure it worked out because Dawn was training the move hard and this is an anime, but it's still a bad idea.
    -Ursula wonders why she lost. It's simple, dear; you were introduced super late and you aren't one of Dawn's main rivals, so you were doomed to play second fiddle to Zoey and Nando.
    -Nando has a Sunflora? But that's not even a remotely musical Pokemon!
    -Candy Musalina merch didn't sell? Jessie doesn't believe it! Neither do I; she's clearly the best and most original coordinator out of all the people here.
    -With all that said and done, let's focus on the best part of the entire episode: Fantina's random engrish. Fantastiku! Unbaribabul!
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  21. #46
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    At some point, Pokemon battles stopped always playing by "the rules". Typing and abilities only seem to kick in at random points, super effectiveness, difference between physical/special, and so on.

    This seemed to be the point where Contest battles only used the rules when it felt like it.

    As others have pointed out, not countering an attack and mindelessly spamming one attack, has gotten points deducted before. So I think there was ridiculousness on both sides.

    That said, if I ignore that, I thought it was a fun and entertaining battle. I'm just going to pretend Booster sucks as much in the anime as it does in the games.

    EDIT: Even though I knew it wouldn't happen, I was hoping Manmoo would learn Earthquake or Earth Power to *****slap those idiots for using Dig so much.

    Also, was hoping for Sand Veil to activate on Gabite rather than Double Team spam.
    Last edited by randomspot555; 10th June 2010 at 11:02 PM.
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  22. #47
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    It was a nice battle between both Urara and Dawn and everything.

    Credit goes to Eroiduelist for the bannar

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    I loved how Gible's Draco Meteor splits into two, and when Togekiss fires them back, they hit both Gible AND Ash. Haha, awesome stuff.

    And Ursula is more cocky than ever, which is what I like to see! Definitely worthy a Rivalry title like always.


    Now, exciting episode! Dawn VS Ursula was again a sight to see, and both made a wonderful performance. Seeing more of that new Flareon was great, alongside with Gabite. And Dawn with Mamoswine and Pachirisu, great duo like always! First off, Dawn made a good start with Discharge and Take Down. And the Scary Face Sandstorm was INCREDIBLE! The animation made on that was stellar. However, The Ice Chandelier rolling around the stage was quite a spectacular move! I'm amazed how many points it knocked out for Ursula, but Ursula did the same as well.

    Even at the tailgate end of Dawn's remaining points, it would've been all for Ursula, but for Dawn and Mamoswine/Pachirisu, its all about "determination". :P Especially from ALL of those attacks thrown to Mamoswine as well, but yet Dawn doesn't loose any points. Glad to see Dawn win, though sad for Ursula to loose 3 times to her.

    And with the other coordinators, glad to see that now Dawn, Zoey, Nando and Jessie all make it to the Top 16 so far! Can't wait for next week's epic episode.
    Last edited by the1stpkmnfan; 25th September 2010 at 1:15 PM.

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  24. #49
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    The Gible thing was funny, as usual. The Dawn VS Ursula fight was close. Too bad Ursula never managed to beat Dawn once, but at least the matches have been pretty close.

    I also like how Zoey, Nando & Jessie all advanced as well.
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  25. #50
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    Great Episode... lady luck was deffinatly riding high with Dawn as if she did not get lucky and knock our ursula's pokemon.. it would have been over.

    My favorite part was Jessie getting angry that her stuff did not sell. I completly laughed out loud on that. Poor Jessie I would have bought some Jessilina stuff



    Torpoleon I would not have called it close...Ursula deffinatly had Dawn beaten, she had alot more points left and like 14 seconds..Dawn got lucky she managed to KO the pokemon.
    Last edited by halloweenghost; 25th September 2010 at 12:53 PM.

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