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Thread: X/Y Threat Guide

  1. #1
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    Default X/Y Threat Guide

    With the stablization of X and Y, new threats have come out while former threats have fallen from their former glory such as Breloom. This guide is ment to touch on what are the more common threats as well as common niche like pokemon that should be considered when teambuilding.

        Spoiler:- Rating Guide for those that need it:



    Aegislash



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Aegislash:


    Azumarill



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Azumarill:


    Celebi



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Celebi:


    Conkeldurr



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Conkeldurr:


    Deoxys Defense



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Deoxys Defense:


    Deoxys Speed



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Deoxys Speed:


    Dragonite



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Dragonite:


    Excadrill



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Excadrill:


    Ferrothorn



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Ferrothorn:


    Forretress



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Forretress:


    Garchomp



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Garchomp:


    Genesect



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Genesect:


    Gengar



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Gengar:


    Gliscor



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Gliscor:


    Gourgeist



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Gourgeist:


    Goodra



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Goodra:


    Greninja



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Greninja:
    Last edited by McDanger; 27th January 2014 at 3:09 AM.



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    Gyarados



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Gyarados:


    Heatran



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Heatran:


    Hippowdon



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Hippowdon:


    Jirachi



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Jirachi:


    Keldeo



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Keldeo:


    Kyurem Black



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Kyurem Black:


    Landorus Incarnate



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Landorus Incarnate:


    Landorus Therian



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Landorus Therian:


    Latias



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Latias:


    Latios



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Latios:


    Mamoswine



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mamoswine:


    Manaphy



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Manaphy:


    Mandibuzz



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mandibuzz:


    Mega Charizard X



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Charizard X:


    Mega Charizard Y



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Charizard Y:


    Mega Gyarados



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Gyarados:


    Mega Lucario



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Lucario:


    Mega Mawile



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Mawile:


    Mega Pinsir



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Pinsir:


    Mega Scizor



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Scizor:
    Last edited by McDanger; 10th January 2014 at 7:27 PM.



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    Mega Tyranitar



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Tyranitar:


    Mega Venusaur



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Venusaur:


    Politoed



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Politoed:


    Rotom Wash



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Rotom Wash:


    Salamence



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Salamence:


    Scizor



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Scizor:


    Skarmory



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Skarmory:


    Sylveon



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Sylveon:


    Talonflame



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Talonflame:


    Terrakion



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Terrakion:


    Thundurus



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Thundurus:


    Thundurus Therian



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Thundurus Therian:


    Trevenant



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Trevenant:


    Tyranitar



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Tyranitar:


    Volcarona



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Volcarona:


    Zygarde



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Zygarde:
    Last edited by McDanger; 10th January 2014 at 5:12 PM.



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    Niche threats

    There are some threats that are not common, but can fill niche in OU, making them viable in a specific way, but not enough to be a real threat that needs to be covered with a team slot, but you should be aware of them so they don't steamroll your team due to the surprise factor.

    NOTE: Chances are high the descriptions for the moved threats will be reformated

        Spoiler:- Niche Ranking:


    10 left

        Spoiler:- List of Niche Threats:


    Abomasnow



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Abomasnow:


    Amoonguss



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Amoonguss:


    Bisharp



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Bisharp:


    Breloom



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Breloom:


    Chesnaught



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Chesnaught:


    Diggersby



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Diggersby:


    Entei



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Entei:


    Florges



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Florges:


    Flygon



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Flygon:


    Jellicent



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Jellicent:


    Kingdra



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Kingdra:


    Klefki



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Klefki:


    Mega Abomasnow



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Abomasnow:


    Mega Absol



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Absol:


    Mega Blastoise



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Blastoise:


    Mega Garchomp



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Garchomp:


    Mega Heracross



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Heracross:


    Mega Medicham



    Type:

        Spoiler:- Mega Medicham:
    Last edited by McDanger; 27th January 2014 at 2:57 AM.



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    Klefki

    Klefki is one of the best leads this Gen, with access to Priority Dual screens and priority spikes, turning any sweeper coming in after it much more deadly. It also has access to the usual thunder wave and stuff that most prankster mons have, and also access to Foul Play and swagger, allowing it to pull off the SwagPard set (though using it isn't recommended), but Klefki has the added advantage of better defenses and typing.
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    Avalugg is arguably one of the best Defensive walls in the entire meta game. Boasting an impressive 184 Defense and 95 HP, this iceberg can tank physical hits until the end of time. He also gets some really good moves, namely Rapid Spin, Recover and Roar. He also gets quite a bit of coverage, gaining access to Stone Edge, Crunch and Earthquake. Avalugg also gets two pretty great abilities, Sturdy (to take Special hits if you somehow need to) and Ice Body (Hail Teams). However, with every amazing Pokemon, there comes a downfall. Avalugg has abysmal SpDef, sitting at base 46 and has piss-poor speed as well, sitting at base 28.His typing is also horrendous, and suffers just like Cryogonal, having three common weaknesses and only a single resistance. However, do not overlook this Iceberg as under the right circumstances, he can really wreck lots of Pokemon with Avalanche.




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    Much like Kelfki, Carbink is one of the best leads at the moment. It performs much like a slower Custap Skarmory that focuses on getting up dual screens and rocks rather than spikes and rocks. Thanks to Sturdy and great defenses, you can run either Light Clay or Custap Berry and still have it work effectively. What sets it apart from Klefki is access to Stealth Rocks, Explosion, and Trick Room for versatility. It also, like Kelfki, has access to various support moves, and Thunder Wave could be thrown onto a lead set if you'd like, but lead is really the only way to go with this guy, meaning he struggles with opposing Taunter, but that's really all that can stop him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post


    Avalugg is arguably one of the best Defensive walls in the entire meta game. Boasting an impressive 184 Defense and 95 HP, this iceberg can tank physical hits until the end of time. He also gets some really good moves, namely Rapid Spin, Recover and Roar. He also gets quite a bit of coverage, gaining access to Stone Edge, Crunch and Earthquake. Avalugg also gets two pretty great abilities, Sturdy (to take Special hits if you somehow need to) and Ice Body (Hail Teams). However, with every amazing Pokemon, there comes a downfall. Avalugg has abysmal SpDef, sitting at base 46 and has piss-poor speed as well, sitting at base 28.His typing is also horrendous, and suffers just like Cryogonal, having three common weaknesses and only a single resistance. However, do not overlook this Iceberg as under the right circumstances, he can really wreck lots of Pokemon with Avalanche.
    I fail to see how Avalugg is even a minor threat. Sure, it has impressive Defense and solid Attack, but it gets beat by so many attackers. It's weakness to SR and terrible Defensive Typing isn't really helping it's case either. Weaknesses to common attacking types such as Steel, Fighting and Fire make it easy to beat. It's also setup bait for many Sweepers such as Lucario and Blaziken who only fear Earthquake. Other walls such as Skarmory, Forretress or Ferrothorn are much better choices than it. Overall, it's not really something you're gonna want to watch out for when building a Team.

    _____________________________

    I'm not seeing Volcarona here. What.



    Volcarona is back for more in Gen 6. Although it hasn't really gained much with the transfer from BW to XY, it's still a major threat. Boasting one of the best setup moves in the game, Quiver Dance, Volcarona can make quick work of Teams with one or multiple boosts. Although it still suffers a weakness to SR, there is now an alternate option for removing it; Defog. Although it removes hazards from Volcarona's side, it allows it to function fairly easily not fearing the loss if 50% of it's Hp upon being switched in. With the rise of threats such as Aegislash, Volcarona now has extra opputunities to set up on the opposing Team, and wreak havoc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aura Sensei™ View Post
    I fail to see how Avalugg is even a minor threat. Sure, it has impressive Defense and solid Attack, but it gets beat by so many attackers. It's weakness to SR and terrible Defensive Typing isn't really helping it's case either. Weaknesses to common attacking types such as Steel, Fighting and Fire make it easy to beat. It's also setup bait for many Sweepers such as Lucario and Blaziken who only fear Earthquake. Other walls such as Skarmory, Forretress or Ferrothorn are much better choices than it. Overall, it's not really something you're gonna want to watch out for when building a Team.
    The things you pointed out about Avalugg affects Skarm, Forretress and Ferrothorn as well. They become setup fodder. If you're going to tell me Skarm has Whirlwind, you didn't realize Avalugg can run Roar, which is why he generally can't be setup fodder because he just roars said setup pokemon away. And most of Avalugg's weaknesses are physical anyway. He also gets Rapid Spin, and he can also have Crobat back him up with Defog.

    I don't believe I've pointed this out, but a STAB Choice Banded Super Effective Bullet Punch from Scizor effectively 3HKO's Avalugg. I believe BP is base 180 Power and Scizor is base 195 Attack. IMO surviving an attack like that is already darn impressive on it's own, but it doesn't even come close to one shotting. Avalugg's physical defense is basically Lugia Multiscale tier (As calculated by the smogon guys). Overall, for a pokemon like Avalugg, I don't think you should shy away from him because of his typing. He actually can function really well and form a defensive line with Florges/Sylveon

    Edit: Wanna show some calculations.

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 322-382 (81.72 - 96.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 237-281 (60.15 - 71.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (life orb simulates tough claws)

    252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 288-340 (73.09 - 86.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 270-320 (68.52 - 81.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 211-250 (53.55 - 63.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 224-266 (56.85 - 67.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO




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    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    The things you pointed out about Avalugg affects Skarm, Forretress and Ferrothorn as well. They become setup fodder. If you're going to tell me Skarm has Whirlwind, you didn't realize Avalugg can run Roar, which is why he generally can't be setup fodder because he just roars said setup pokemon away. And most of Avalugg's weaknesses are physical anyway. He also gets Rapid Spin, and he can also have Crobat back him up with Defog.

    I don't believe I've pointed this out, but a STAB Choice Banded Super Effective Bullet Punch from Scizor effectively 3HKO's Avalugg. I believe BP is base 180 Power and Scizor is base 195 Attack. IMO surviving an attack like that is already darn impressive on it's own, but it doesn't even come close to one shotting. Avalugg's physical defense is basically Lugia Multiscale tier (As calculated by the smogon guys). Overall, for a pokemon like Avalugg, I don't think you should shy away from him because of his typing. He actually can function really well and form a defensive line with Florges/Sylveon

    Edit: Wanna show some calculations.

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 322-382 (81.72 - 96.95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 237-281 (60.15 - 71.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (life orb simulates tough claws)

    252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 288-340 (73.09 - 86.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 270-320 (68.52 - 81.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Life Orb Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 211-250 (53.55 - 63.45%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 224-266 (56.85 - 67.51%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    the difference between skarmory and avalugg is that a special attack can look at skarmory and it doesn't die

    While avalugg has high defense, it has a lot of competition with older threats like skarmory, who has more resistances, ferrothorn, same as skarmory plus sets up hazards, forretress, who sets up hazards, and mega aggron, who is overall the best physical wall. I`m not saying its bad, i`m saying its bad in OU, in lower tiers where it has less competition, it`ll be good
    @clay: diggy reminds me of azumarill last gen, idk if its worth going on the threat list tho its so rare atm and a niche pokemon
    @trident: I actually was going to add mega mawile, but its speed makes it inferior to other megas imo, but is worth the post as a mention
    @t-bolt and contrail: the fact that they are good leads is diminished at common defog is, which gets ride of screens and hazards. Both will drop to lower tiers most likely especially since how lead offensive isn't as good as before
    Last edited by McDanger; 3rd November 2013 at 3:29 PM.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    @t-bolt and contrail: the fact that they are good leads is diminished at common defog is, which gets ride of screens and hazards. Both will drop to lower tiers most likely especially since how lead offensive isn't as good as before
    True, but on HO teams a turn of using Defog can mean giving another Pokemon a free set-up opportunity, so it could still see some use. And don't forget that although Defog can be used by a lot of mons, most offensive teams would rather have a coverage slot or set-up move over it, so it would really only see use on pivots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    the difference between skarmory and avalugg is that a special attack can look at skarmory and it doesn't die
    I believe my in-game Yveltal with max SpAtk EV's and Oblivion Wing couldn't one-shot Wulfric's Avalugg (Around 95% maybe?), and mine was lvl 63 while his was 59. Avalugg doesn't just flop over from a single Special hit because he also has hp to back it up. If it's super effective then yeah it will. The typing is definitely a crippling blow, but I feel that Avalugg could prove to be a nice niche in OU, while perhaps being used alot UU. Also, Avalugg can run Crunch to stop Jellicent from stopping him from spinning.




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    Lol i swept the entire e4 ingame with dedenne. Ingame trainers mean dookie. Avalugg is terrible, 90 base hp is almost nothing in the grand scheme of things. It will always be outclassed by forretress.

    The problem with your calcs is this: avalugg can do nothing back. Yeah it isnt ohkoed by Mega luke CC. However it does enough with rocks up for a ohko, making it an unreliable spinner. Not to mention the fact that ice typing is terribad to begin with

    EDIT: 95 base hp w/e

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    Forretress has a x4 weakness to fire, worse Hp, lower defense and just slightly better Sp. Def, what makes it any better than Avalugg? Is there something I'm not seeing here

    While I don't know about Avalugg being a major threat, that Atk on a Trick Room team +curse+recover could be promising against physical attackers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    I believe my in-game Yveltal with max SpAtk EV's and Oblivion Wing couldn't one-shot Wulfric's Avalugg (Around 95% maybe?), and mine was lvl 63 while his was 59. Avalugg doesn't just flop over from a single Special hit because he also has hp to back it up. If it's super effective then yeah it will. The typing is definitely a crippling blow, but I feel that Avalugg could prove to be a nice niche in OU, while perhaps being used alot UU. Also, Avalugg can run Crunch to stop Jellicent from stopping him from spinning.
    Jellicent beats Avalugg 1v1 with Will-o-Wisp to weaken Crunch, Recover to heal off damage, and Taunt to stop you from using Toxic if you run it. So Jellicent pretty reliably stops Avalugg from spinning. Tbh, I can see him having a place in RU like Cryogonal, and possibly being used some in OU, but there's just too many things in OU that beat it or do its job better.

    Quote Originally Posted by unresponsive View Post
    Forretress has a x4 weakness to fire, worse Hp, lower defense and just slightly better Sp. Def, what makes it any better than Avalugg? Is there something I'm not seeing here

    While I don't know about Avalugg being a major threat, that Atk on a Trick Room team +curse+recover could be promising against physical attackers.
    Forretress has better defensive typing, access to all forms of hazards, and has Volt Switch to keep momentum, making it a superior choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unresponsive View Post
    Forretress has a x4 weakness to fire, worse Hp, lower defense and just slightly better Sp. Def, what makes it any better than Avalugg? Is there something I'm not seeing here

    While I don't know about Avalugg being a major threat, that Atk on a Trick Room team +curse+recover could be promising against physical attackers.
    Forretress may have a x4 weakness to fire, but that is it's only weakness. Avalugg, on the other hand, is cursed with the ice type, which carries only one resistance and several weaknesses. And if you're a spinner, it's always beneficial to resist Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock. Forretress can also find it's place as a supportive member of Voltturn teams.

    In Curse Trick Room? Uh, okay. On turn one, support pokemon uses trick room. Turn two, it swaps out. Turn three, it uses curse. A +1/+1 boost that takes three turns isn't really worth the effort. And trick room will only last so long before. In single battles at least, trick roomer sweepers want to do as much damage as they can as quickly as they can so that trick room's effect doesn't fade before they're done. By using curse, you're just wasting a turn. You're better off using something like Flame Orb Conkeldurr or Mega Mawile.
    Last edited by Zachmac; 3rd November 2013 at 8:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    I believe my in-game Yveltal with max SpAtk EV's and Oblivion Wing couldn't one-shot Wulfric's Avalugg (Around 95% maybe?), and mine was lvl 63 while his was 59. Avalugg doesn't just flop over from a single Special hit because he also has hp to back it up. If it's super effective then yeah it will. The typing is definitely a crippling blow, but I feel that Avalugg could prove to be a nice niche in OU, while perhaps being used alot UU. Also, Avalugg can run Crunch to stop Jellicent from stopping him from spinning.
    Ingame means crap you can beat the game with a pikachu, yveltal could have been a negitive nature 0 ivs. Avalugg will always be sub par to other spinners and wall, only niche on a hail team and than overcoat forretress and mandibuzz remove hazards and sponge hits better. It has no real niche in OU as all it does is spin, ice is a bad type in general its weak to common threats such as aegislash, talonflame and mega charizard X. It doesn't matter if it lives a hit from one of them, unless you are recovering, its dead weight the rest of the match.

    Quote Originally Posted by unresponsive View Post
    Forretress has a x4 weakness to fire, worse Hp, lower defense and just slightly better Sp. Def, what makes it any better than Avalugg? Is there something I'm not seeing here
    Forretress has a wider movepool and does more roles, not only spinning hazards, but sets up any form of hazard bar sticky web, has volt switch so it can function on a volt turn team, as well as sturdy and overcoat, meaning it can either live a hit and spin/set up hazards, or take no damage from hail and be immune to spore and powder moves.



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    I could see Mega Medicham rising up to at least UU. Medicham's always had an absurd amount of power, and its Mega evolution not only increases that power but brings its lackluster speed up to a respectable base 100. With 656 attack, STAB Hi Jump Kick puts a serious dent in anything that isn't a Ghost type. With a secondary Psychic STAB and Elemental Punches for coverage, not much will want to switch into Mega Medicham's attacks.

    That said, the abundance of ghost types such as Gengar, Jellicent, Aegislash means Mega Medicham has to be conservative with HJK, lest it get half its HP ripped off. While base 100 speed is a welcome improvement, it's still outsped by a fair amount of Pokemon, and the fact that it can't carry a Scarf or boost its speed means it's easy to Revenge Kill. Its bulk isn't spectacular either, so priority such as Scizor's Bullet Punch and Azumarill's Aqua Jet will usually eat a fair amount of its HP. It doesn't have many resistances, so it's hard to switch in, and there's little chance that it'll ever survive a SE hit from a Ghost, Flying, or Fairy type attack either.

    Either way, Mega Medicham does everything that Medicham can do, only better. Well, except maybe carrying a Choice Item for obvious reasons... But with the welcome improvement I could see it rising out of RU. Whether or not it can make it in OU is something I have doubts about, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    @clay: diggy reminds me of azumarill last gen, idk if its worth going on the threat list tho its so rare atm and a niche pokemon
    @trident: I actually was going to add mega mawile, but its speed makes it inferior to other megas imo, but is worth the post as a mention
    thanks for putting it in
    also diggersby is by far better than azumarill, you really should add him


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    Quote Originally Posted by trident20 View Post
    thanks for putting it in
    also diggersby is by far better than azumarill, you really should add him
    I'm not sure I agree about that. Sure, a STAB Earthquake coming off 464 attack hurts is solid, and its speed is better, but Azumarill's typing is a lot better, its bulk is a little better, and its movepool has better arguably coverage. They're comparable for sure in terms of function, and I'm not saying Diggersby is bad or anything, but I wouldn't really classify Diggersby as being "by far better" than Azumarill.
    Last edited by KillerDraco; 4th November 2013 at 4:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    I'm not sure I agree about that. Sure, a STAB Earthquake coming off 464 attack hurts is solid, and its speed is better, but Azumarill's typing is a lot better, its bulk is a little better, and its movepool has better arguably coverage. They're comparable for sure in terms of function, and I'm not saying Diggersby is bad or anything, but I wouldn't really classify Diggersby as being "by far better" than Azumarill.
    Well, Diggersby is no where near as good as the new Azumarill, but it's much better than last gen's thanks to getting great coverage moves and U-turn, as well as better speed and arguably more useful typing in terms of checking certain threats like Aegislash.

  22. #22
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    I think Chandelure will rise in usage with Steels(HEATRAN) losing Ghost resistance.

    Barbaracle is a great user of Shell Smash with Tough Claws backing that up. Good STABs and coverage moves like Cross Chop. Razor Shell hurts switch-ins with that potential(50%) defense drop which can cause 3HKOes into 2HKOes.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixeilon View Post
    I think Chandelure will rise in usage with Steels(HEATRAN) losing Ghost resistance.
    I wouldn't think that it would make that much of a difference. Heatran was just one among many pokemon who ruled the OU metagame-and one pokemon lossing a resistance isn't nearly as game changing as drizzle's nerf.

    Chandelure was really held back by it's combination of speed and unsatisfactory defensive ability, or the Rampardos syndrome, as I am going to call it. It doesn't have the defenses to tank a lot of hits, and it isn't near the top of the speed tiers, so it struggles to preform it's role to the team.

    If something does make a difference to it's usage, however, it would probably be defog's buff. Now that Stealth Rock is more easily manageable, running a choice scarf specs is far less risky then it use to be, thanks to the plethora of pseudo spinners that will join the metagame through Pokemon Bank. Even then, it still faces some rough competition with Mega Gengar and the like, and spin blocking is no longer a reliable way to keep your hazards up, so I don't think it'll make it into OU. I see it more of a pokemon that can be used in OU, but won't really be placed there.

    But then again, I'm having a hard time seeing a lot of pokemon changing roles, so it may just be that my head is still stuck in gen 5.
    Last edited by Zachmac; 4th November 2013 at 6:56 AM.
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  24. #24
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    I am surprised no one has been talking about this little guy, or big guy, or supersize guy.

    Gourgeist has a fair amount of versatility to it, because it has four base stat calculations to contend with depending on which size you want to use. The small sizes have less attack and hp but more speed, while the larger sizes go for the bulky tank role while sacrificing speed.

    This is not a detriment however, since Gourgeist already sports a 122 base Defense. The only other stats that don't change are it's Special Attack and Special Defense, staying in at 58 and 75 respectively. It is difficult to really hammer down how useful it is since it depends on what you need. The spectrum from small to supersize regarding its other stats, HP, Attack and Speed, is as follows. for Small, it is a 55/85/99 spread, for super size, 85/100/54 spread.

    Now this is important, because the great pumpkin's usability is dependent on its size and style of attack. It's movepool has some useful tricks up its sleeve that are dependent on its size and role you need to fulfill. As a suppoter/defensive pokemon, a lot of Gourgeist's tricks include the standard fare of sub-seeding, spin-blocking, and burn-spreading. Gourgeist is also effective in Trick Room in its larger sized forms, which may see a resurgence of use now that the weather has been culled. Trick or Treat offers interesting possibilities by adding Ghost type to your opponents, as does the combination of Frisk/Trick give you more support options. In terms of attacks, its strongest stabs are physical Seed Bomb and Phantom Force, although the two-turn nature of Phantom Force might see Shadow Sneak favored more, depending on what you need on your set.

    I should also note that Gourgeist is the only Grass type to learn fire-type attacks, including flame charge, flamethrower, and fire blast. While its special attack is it's lowest stat, with some EV investment (94 EV according to calculations I have read) the pumpkin can guarantee a 2HK0 against Skarmory and Ferrothorn, have a 56% chance to 1HKO Scizor, and easily OHKO Forretress with a single fire blast.

    In terms of weaknesses, in the OU tier right now the biggest threat is Talonflame with priority gale wing attacks, and despite the damage it can do, Skarmory can pack a punch as well. Mega Pinsir and Mandibuzz also serve as primary counters. Finally, because of Protean, Greninja can check Gourgiest, as can Mega Garydos with its type shift to Water/Dark. Fellow Ghosts may also be a problem, including Aegislash and Gengar, although Gourgeist can check Aegislash if it shoots off a fireblast or predicts with phantom force, exploiting its defenses when in Blade Form and tanking the sword if it uses shadow sneak, or outspeeding it without automize. It is a dicey risk though, as both ghosts can potentially kill the other on any given day. Against Gengar...not so much.

    Still, a lot of options for support and without permanent weather, we may see a rise of stall/defensive teams in need of the pumpkin's talents.
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    Last edited by LinksOcarina; 4th November 2013 at 10:45 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post


    I am surprised no one has been talking about this little guy, or big guy, or supersize guy.

    Gourgeist has a fair amount of versatility to it, because it has four base stat calculations to contend with depending on which size you want to use. The small sizes have less attack and hp but more speed, while the larger sizes go for the bulky tank role while sacrificing speed.

    This is not a detriment however, since Gourgeist already sports a 122 base Defense. The only other stats that don't change are it's Special Attack and Special Defense, staying in at 58 and 75 respectively. It is difficult to really hammer down how useful it is since it depends on what you need. The spectrum from small to supersize regarding its other stats, HP, Attack and Speed, is as follows. for Small, it is a 55/85/99 spread, for super size, 85/100/54 spread.

    Now this is important, because the great pumpkin's usability is dependent on its size and style of attack. It's movepool has some useful tricks up its sleeve that are dependent on its size and role you need to fulfill. As a suppoter/defensive pokemon, a lot of Gourgeist's tricks include the standard fare of sub-seeding, spin-blocking, and burn-spreading. Gourgeist is also effective in Trick Room in its larger sized forms, which may see a resurgence of use now that the weather has been culled. Trick or Treat offers interesting possibilities by adding Ghost type to your opponents, as does the combination of Frisk/Trick give you more support options. In terms of attacks, its strongest stabs are physical Seed Bomb and Phantom Force, although the two-turn nature of Phantom Force might see Shadow Sneak favored more, depending on what you need on your set.

    I should also note that Gourgeist is the only Grass type to learn fire-type attacks, including flame charge, flamethrower, and fire blast. While its special attack is it's lowest stat, with some EV investment (94 EV according to calculations I have read) the pumpkin can guarantee a 2HK0 against Skarmory and Ferrothorn, have a 56% chance to 1HKO Scizor, and easily OHKO Forretress with a single fire blast.

    In terms of weaknesses, in the OU tier right now the biggest threat is Talonflame with priority gale wing attacks, and despite the damage it can do, Skarmory can pack a punch as well. Mega Pinsir and Mandibuzz also serve as primary counters. Finally, because of Protean, Greninja can check Gourgiest, as can Mega Garydos with its type shift to Water/Dark. Fellow Ghosts may also be a problem, including Aegislash and Gengar, although Gourgeist can check Aegislash if it shoots off a fireblast or predicts with phantom force, exploiting its defenses when in Blade Form and tanking the sword if it uses shadow sneak, or outspeeding it without automize. It is a dicey risk though, as both ghosts can potentially kill the other on any given day. Against Gengar...not so much.

    Still, a lot of options for support and without permanent weather, we may see a rise of stall/defensive teams in need of the pumpkin's talents.
    ya i was going to it today or tomorrow
    @diggy conversation: i know its a threat, but with so many bigger, and broken, threats i dont see it getting a spot on the list yet. As the meta changes it`ll probably go up as a niche pokemon



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