Common Misconceptions

[purplepikachu]

"Ninjask, also sucks. No competent player will ever let a Ninjask pass boosts. 1 of 3 attacks will be on nearly every team. They are Roar, Taunt, and Whirlwind. All of these moves equal an instant shutdown for Ninjask. If usage stats were weighted Ninjask would be UU where it belongs."

please dont say that. A competent user of ninjask can make it successful, but it need a lot of team support. My 1532 on smogon resulted from a ninjask team. I used impish max-defence, and this set really works. Most of the time, I get to pass +6 spe and +2 atk to m rhyperior. If you see a taunt coming, pass to a sweeper. If you see a roar coming, pass to whatever and hope he roars in a sleeper.

[Fried Rhys]

Ok, I'll reword it or something, I've just never seen a team that's weak to Ninjask pass but w/e. Actually I probably won't. People have gotten mid to high leaderboard with Pikachu teams but that doesn't change the fact that it sucks ;/

[Darkfall]

6 Powerful Pokemon = A good team.
I mean, let's face it. This is THE most commen thing we get in RMT. People who think that Gyarados + Metagross + Weavile + Milotic + Skarmory + Snorlax = constant complete victory. It doesn't. Just because the Pokemon have high BSTs or access to a lot of powerful moves, does NOT mean that you're going to win. Your Pokemon need to work together, you need to be able to beat other strategies. It's great you're using Gyarados, but there's nothing to take the Thunderbolts. Sure, Snorlax isn't TOO phazed by them, but when he switches in, then what? It's better to plan ahead. You KNOW you're going to switch out against electric attacks, so pack something that benefits from them, like Jolteon/Electivire or even a Ground type that can do something when your opponent flees.

Which brings me nicely to my next point; stat-upping moves, and moves such as Wish and Yawn are NOT worthless.
A lot of people seem to have it in their heads that unless a move deals direct damage or heals instantly, it's pretty worthless. This also counts for moves like Substitute. People think it's a bad move.

On top of that, perhaps something about how "More power > Terrible secondary effect."

Granted that most competetive players would avoid the Hyper Beams like the plague, this guide is aimed at newer players, and I still see and hear quite a lot of people using Frenzy Plant etc because of it's raw offensive power, not realising that they could do more damage over two turns with a weaker attack.

The only time I saw this kind of thing 'work' was a gimmicky Scarfed revenge killing Charizard that was used against me. And even then it wasn't that threatening.

Of course a mention would need to go to moves like Overheat and Close Combat so, maybe this idea is a bit shakey?

Finally, "When Team Building, choosing your Lead first is a good idea!"
Because it isn't. That much SHOULD be obvious, but for some elusive reason, I still find people doing it. Yes, it may go first in battle, but no, it shouldn't be the frist Pokemon you plan (usually). It's arguably the most important Pokemon you can pick, as, 9 times out of 10, it has to set up the strategy, support your next switch in and/or scout, and often lay down entry hazards. It's best to plan your lead when you know your core Pokemon and the strategy you want.

[White Wizard]

that may and her little bro arnt related

[windsong]

that may and her little bro arnt related

Fail troll is fail.

Also, I think that the section about weaker power > terrible secondary effect should be something more like "avoid hyper beam and hyper beam clone moves" (though worded a bit better than that), as other moves with bad secondary effects, like Overheat, Close Combat, etc, that are completely viable in competitive play, would otherwise fall into that category.

[Fried Rhys]

Granted that most competetive players would avoid the Hyper Beams like the plague, this guide is aimed at newer players, and I still see and hear quite a lot of people using Frenzy Plant etc because of it's raw offensive power, not realising that they could do more damage over two turns with a weaker attack.

That sounds good; a lot of new players do use these moves.

Of course a mention would need to go to moves like Overheat and Close Combat so, maybe this idea is a bit shakey?

Well the difference is you aren't complete setup fodder do to those special effects which is how I'll differentiate them.

I think it's also important to mention that stat-upping moves, and moves such as Wish and Yawn are also good. Again a lot of people seem to have it in their heads that unless a move deals direct damage or heals instantly, it's pretty worthless. This also counts for moves like Substitute. People think it's a bad move.

Not sure about this. I never had that view when I started playing competitively. However, I can't speak for everyone so if other people think it deserves a mention it'll get one.

that may and her little bro arnt related

true

[Darkfall]

I edited my post a bit for easier reading and added the main point I was going to say, but then forgot. It's the first paragraph. =)

[bonslet]

Finally, "When Team Building, choosing your Lead first is a good idea!"
Because it isn't. That much SHOULD be obvious, but for some elusive reason, I still find people doing it. Yes, it may go first in battle, but no, it shouldn't be the frist Pokemon you plan (usually). It's arguably the most important Pokemon you can pick, as, 9 times out of 10, it has to set up the strategy, support your next switch in and/or scout, and often lay down entry hazards. It's best to plan your lead when you know your core Pokemon and the strategy you want.

This is all true, but is this really all that common, or at least, can we tell if it's all that common? I don't think most newbies would bother to explicitly state, "I first chose my lead pokemon," even it that's the case, but then again, I don't read newbies' teams very often. Also, is this really different enough from the misconception of "Teams must be comprised of specified roles" (this also applies to your "Six good pokemon don't make a good team")? All of them lead to the same conclusion- focusing on team synergy is the best way to build a team, rather than some autonomic process.

[Darkfall]

This is all true, but is this really all that common, or at least, can we tell if it's all that common? I don't think most newbies would bother to explicitly state, "I first chose my lead pokemon," even it that's the case, but then again, I don't read newbies' teams very often. Also, is this really different enough from the misconception of "Teams must be comprised of specified roles" (this also applies to your "Six good pokemon don't make a good team")? All of them lead to the same conclusion- focusing on team synergy is the best way to build a team, rather than some autonomic process.

A good point, to be honest I think I got a little bit carried away with it, just listing things newer players tend to do.
I help a lot of people build teams and quite often they start there, which is why it was in my head. But you're right, it's probably not worthy.

However, something I think IS well worth mentioning is the power boosting items (The plates, Charcoal etc). There's no denying that those kinds of items are a commen sight on less-experienced players movesets, so Ithink that needs to be addressed as well.

[Skwog]

To be honest, I find your point #7 to be quite offensive.
You are encouraging people to be utterly uncreative and use things that everybody else uses. A Cloyster does not play the same as a Forretress. Blaziken does not play the same as Infernape.
Though these Pokemon can have similar and mock movesets, most people I see that use UU's in an OU environment adapt their movesets for that environment. You may see Cloyster as an inferior Forretress, but with a different typing and movepool, it does a completely different job than Forretress does. It all depends on how the team is built. Sure, just throwing on a random UU Poke for the sake of throwing it on is stupid and often time results in the team to fall apart.
However, if the UU Pokemon is designed to do something entirely different than the alleged OU counterpart, then in fact the OU Poke is not its coutnerpart.

For example, recently I began to use a Magneton in lieu of Magnezone on my OU Standard team. I have gotten harassed over this, and told I am causing my team to be weaker due to using Magneton. But what these people realize is even though Magnezone is the evolved form of Magneton, my Magneton is designed to do something entirely different than Magnezone. Due to Magneton's higher base speed, I am able to run Timid with 252 Speed IV's in order to outspeed a plethora of Base 80 Speed Pokes (assuming that they are not running a +Speed nature or have used a Speed boosting move.) Such Pokes are Gyarados, Dragonite, and Togekiss, three Pokes that my team has trouble dealing with. A Magnezone, assuming that it is not using a Choice Scarf, would almost never stay in against a Gyarados or Dragonite switch-in due to the lower speed and the chance of being KO'd by Earthquake or Fire Punch. Sure, Gyardos and Dragonite are not common switch-ins against a Magnezone, but it has happened to me and will continue to happen to me. With the higher speed on Magneton, I am able to stay in and KO the opponent before they attempt to setup or attack, something that Magnezone could only hope to due with a Choice Scarf.

So just because some Pokemon a "weaker" than others, and have a alleged Pokemon that is "stronger" than it is, does not mean that it should not be used. Creativity should be encouraged, not discouraged. Without it, the fun in Pokemon battling would be lost.

[bonslet]

Sure, just throwing on a random UU Poke for the sake of throwing it on is stupid and often time results in the team to fall apart.
However, if the UU Pokemon is designed to do something entirely different than the alleged OU counterpart, then in fact the OU Poke is not its coutnerpart.

It sounds like you're taking issue with his examples, not his point. If you understand what I've just quoted, then you and Rhys are basically on the same page...

[d0nut]

In no way was he discouraging creativity. He simply stated that it is stupid to try to be creative by throwing random lower tiered stuff together on a team just for the hell of it. Sure, if you can play to Cloyster's/Blaziken's advantages over Forretress/Infernape then great go ahead and use them, but a majority of the time the things in OU are OU for a reason. Based on some of the stuff you said you are on the same page as Fried, but for some reason you may have overlooked what was said in the OP.

Also creativity may seem fun for some people, but believe it or not there are some people who don't mind using the same old bog standards over and over.

[Mail Time]

Opjqy broke 1650 with a Baton Pass chain.

[Fried Rhys]

So just because some Pokemon a "weaker" than others, and have a alleged Pokemon that is "stronger" than it is, does not mean that it should not be used. Creativity should be encouraged, not discouraged. Without it, the fun in Pokemon battling would be lost.

Fun is subjective. I barely skimmed the rest of your post and it sounds like your just mad about my examples. I never said don't be creative. I said don't be creative, just to be creative. Work on your reading comprehension before making pointless walls of text.

Opjqy broke 1650 with a Baton Pass chain.

Neat.

[pkmtrainer]

Nice thread Fried Rhys (Y).
I don´t have any ideas of improving your thread. I just wanted to say that creative sets over standard sets are sometimes very helpful, just like Coulbur Azelf, who can use SR + u-turn out in Ttar´s face giving you the lead of the game. Of course, SpecsScizor KO´ing Gyara with HP electric is a complete fail...

[Fried Rhys]

Agreed. The difference between Colbur Azelf and HP Electric Scizor is viability.

[d0nut]

Nice thread Fried Rhys (Y).
I don´t have any ideas of improving your thread. I just wanted to say that creative sets over standard sets are sometimes very helpful, just like Coulbur Azelf, who can use SR + u-turn out in Ttar´s face giving you the lead of the game. Of course, SpecsScizor KO´ing Gyara with HP electric is a complete fail...

Yea Colbur Berry is a great example of creativity that functions well but iirc it broke 10% on the items Azelf used last month so it now falls under the category of standard and it will probably continue to increase especially now that Machamp is #2 in the lead position. Then again whenever a creative set catches on it becomes standard and thats how it has always been so...

[Mail Time]

Oh btw, someone who I have forgotten, broke top 10 with a Ninjask >> Rhyperior pass.

[jesusfreak94]

There's one more thing that you could add that some people still don't get. I've still heard people say "Infernape only gets 1.25 boost with Fire Blast since it's dual type", or something of that nature. You could make it clear that all STAB is a 1.5 boost.

Really good guide. Enjoyable reading!

[d0nut]

There's one more thing that you could add that a lot of people still don't get. I've still heard people say "Infernape only gets 1.25 boost with Fire Blast since it's dual type", or something of that nature. You could make it clear that all STAB is a 1.5 boost.

Really good guide. Enjoyable reading!

Where exactly have you heard this? I don't think I've ever heard of this until now.

[jesusfreak94]

^Since I made a Serebii account, I've only seen it like once. It was somewhere on a RMT, one that started out with "I'm new to competitive battling". I used to see it a good bit on the forum a while back, though. Still, newcomers might look at this guide and see something about STAB mentioned, and then they might not make any mistakes.

I guess it isn't really necessary for most people, but it could be classified as an "uncommon misconception".

[calze6]

Yeah, I've heard of that from some of my friends.

[Blue Harvest]

Mention that only rocks get the 150% Special Defense stat in the sand.

SO MANY PEOPLE seem to think Steel / Ground types also get it.

[:wub:disc]

Mention that only rocks get the 150% Special Defense stat in the sand.

SO MANY PEOPLE seem to think Steel / Ground types also get it.

i'm pretty sure this guide's intended audience is somewhat competent competitive battlers who may be misguided when it comes to certain aspects of battling, rather than complete retards. may as well mention that fire types can't be burned and poison types can't be poisoned.

[Fried Rhys]

lol yeah. A lot of these suggestions would be better suited for an "Introduction to Competitive Pokemon" or something similar.