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Thread: Mixed-Tier Team

  1. #1
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    Default Mixed-Tier Team

    Version 2.0 is FOURTEEN posts down. Thanks for your cooperation!

    [Whew. I almost didn't want to post this because the rules are frightening. No, the consequences are frightening. No, the consequences, when stated as they are, sound frightening. I've gone over both rule threads and I think I'm ready to do this without being...gulp....Infracted. Or closed for that matter.]

    {I'm also quite new at this so please bear with me and my choices. Thanks.}

    Intro: This team is mixed tiered with 6 Pokemon that really stood out to me while watching competitive Wifi battles on YouTube as well as some Pokemon that I never really see that often used. I wanted a team that had much beefier defenses, stalled a little, and had some surprise factor. Note: I don't actually intend to compete online with the big boys. My brother and I just decided one day that we need to be able to have a fair Wifi-esque battle, 6 on 6, to see who REALLY reigns supreme in the house as Pokemon Master.

    with possibly....

    Machamp @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Spe)
    DynamicPunch
    Bullet Punch
    Thunderpunch
    Stone Edge

    So here, I have my Machamp. I saw an amazing Machamp lead in a YouTube Wifi battle and immediately knew that I had to have one too, because I know that my brother will not pack any Ghost types, and confusion makes people angry. I'm not much of a set-up guy, and when you have a Machamp lead, you might as well go all out with Attacks. DynamicPunch is a given, No Guard + decent STAB damage + confusion = fantastic. I added Bullet Punch because I know that I'm going to go through this battle and then have one of my brother's Pokemon have that small sliver of health, and I just want to be able to deal with it ASAP. In-game, especially in the Battle Frontier, I hugely (is that a word?) lack Electric-Type attacks, and I think I may have saw a Vaporeon and Skarmory in the works as well over on my opposite's team...Stone Edge is placed in the last slot for just overall for big damage. No real strategy for Machamp. He's just a powerhouse.

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Sp. Def
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    Sludge Bomb
    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast or Energy Ball
    Thunderbolt

    I'm pretty sure this is just another run-of-the-mill Special Sweeper. I'm definitely sure that my brother is expecting this guy too. Machamp was my Physical Sweeper, and now Gengar is my Special Sweeper. Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball provide great STAB damage, and Focus Blast/Energy Ball with Thunderbolt provide coverage. I contemplated Substitute, but my Gengar only has 239 HP, so that's a big no-no.

    Bastiodon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Atk
    Nature: Impish (+Def, -Sp. Atk)
    Taunt
    Metal Burst
    Stealth Rock
    Iron Defense?

    I decided on Bastiodon, because I really wanted to use a tank, but after much research, I realized he's a wall, because he's basically no threat when it comes to attacks. What my plan is, to set up Stealth Rock and take a hit, because it can do that pretty well with Defense in the mid-400 range. Then, if it's at all possible, use Taunt and Metal Burst to basically use the Wobbuffet tactic. I'm clueless with what to use for the fourth move though. I've seen Earthquake, Iron Head, Fire Blast even, but his Attack is way way way low. I just don't want a sitting duck...even though that's technically what he does.

    Lucario @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    Aura Sphere
    Shadow Ball
    Dragon Pulse
    Vacuum Wave

    My brother has already seen my in-game Physical Sweeper Lucario, so this will be using surprise factor. My brother is very well known for using more physically powerful Pokemon that lack decent Defense stats, so what I’m going for is destroying those Powerful Physical Pokemon with Sp. Attacks that he won’t see coming. Aura Sphere and Shadow Ball get each other’s backs and cover everything, while Dragon Pulse will help kill whatever Dragon he’ll inevitably have, and then Vacuum Wave, like Machamp’s Bullet Punch will be used to take down Physically Defensive, yet not-so Specially Defensive, first.

    Swampert @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Atk
    Nature: Sassy (+Sp. Def, -Spe)
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Earthquake
    Roar

    I’ve always wanted to use Swampert, and in-game at the Battle Frontier, I always lack some sort of Water-Type. (I kinda still do lack a Water-Type since he doesn’t have Waterfall.) My strategy with Swampert is as follows. Roar, to go through his team to check out what I’m up against, and then Rest to heal up damage, then Sleep Talking. I chose Earthquake over Waterfall because it gets more STAB damage.

    Breloom @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Sp. Def
    Nature: Jolly (+Spe, -Sp. Atk)
    Focus Punch
    Substitute
    Leech Seed
    Spore

    I think we’re all tired of seeing this same Breloom over and over again, but that’s exactly why I’ve considered it. First, I’ll put them to sleep with Spore, then Leech Seed, then Substitute, and then the grand finale with a Focus Punch to the face.

    On Deck:

    Lanturn @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Spe
    Nature: Calm (+Sp. Def, -Atk)
    Ice Beam
    Thunderbolt
    Confuse Ray
    Thunder Wave

    Personally, I just LOVE the idea of “Stop hitting yourself” as Smogon suggests. Starting off with Thunder Wave, and then Confusion allows something like...only 60% of being able to get a hit off? That’s great and will absolutely drive my opponent bonkers. I also gave Lanturn Thunderbolt and Ice Beam for coverage.

    I didn’t realize it until later, but I had 7 Pokemon that I wanted to use, so that’s why I added Lanturn in there as a Special Wall.

    But overall, this strategy completely differs from my usual strategy so I know it is far, FAR from perfect. In fact, looking back on it now, it looks like this team only has Special and Physical Sweepers with a couple walls thrown in. This team is probably going to be torn apart by a grandmaster of Competitive play, but do you know what? I’m okay with that. I want to be able to be critiqued by a Master who is skilled at their art.


    Any and all suggestions are welcome! Thanks for helping me out!
    Last edited by Clammeh Hands; 6th September 2010 at 7:30 AM. Reason: To avoid confusion

  2. #2

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    Well hi Clammeh Hands! Welcome to Serebii! I just want you to know first that you did post this team correctly, and you've got some good concepts in this team. Now onto the team. I'll just rate the members one at a time.

    Machamp: Machamp anti-leads are amazing. This set looks interesting, but I think you'll find that Payback over Thunderpunch and a Lum Berry will do wonders for you in competitive.

    Gengar: Just a couple of problems with this set. One, using Sludge Bomb isn't so good, since it has horrible type coverage. Also, with Stealth Rock running rampant, Focus Sashes are only really useful on leads. Try going with the SubPainSplit set. It works good, even with your Gengar's low HP.

    Gengar@Life Orb
    Timid
    Levitate
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 Def
    Moves:
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Substitute
    -Pain Split

    This really helps kill stall too, especially Blissey.

    Bastiodon: This guy really doesn't make a good wall, with super Fighting and Ground weaknesses. Try replacing it with a supporter Bronzong.

    Bronzong@Leftovers
    Relaxed
    Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP, 52 Atk, 204 Def
    Moves:
    -Gyro Ball
    -Reflect
    -Light Screen
    -Stealth Rock

    Supports with Dual Screens and Stealth Rock.

    Lucario: Eh, this set looks alright. SpecsLuke is not something you see everyday, so the element of surprise could be with you.

    Swampert: I'm not an expert on Swamperts, but this set looks okay for a bulky water. Still, your team is going to have a problem with Infernape. Only Gengar doesn't take super effective damage from its attacks, and its low defenses keep it from taking many attacks anyways. Try this over Pert.

    Starmie@Life Orb
    Timid
    Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Moves:
    -Surf
    -Ice Beam
    -Thunderbolt
    -Recover

    Breeloom: SubSeed Breeloom. Very nice, very annoying.

    Hope this helps! And good luck with the team!

  3. #3
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    I probably missed this somewhere in the post, but what is the format for the mixed tier your playing? It would just be easier to rate if i knew that.

    Just as a small rate so this isnt a worthless post, run Lum> Scarf on Machamp, and change the Evs to 240 HP/ 248 Att/ 16 SpD with Payback over ThunderPunch and Ice Punch over Stone Edge. This is the best anti-lead in the game IMO.

    Also for Swampert, if you want specially defensive, run 252 HP/ 40 Def/ 216 Sp. Def with a Careful> Sassy nature since you're not using Sp. Att.



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    Looks like a pretty solid team but maybe it would help to have a u-turn pokemon as your lead for free damage
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ludicolomaniac View Post
    Looks like a pretty solid team but maybe it would help to have a u-turn pokemon as your lead for free damage
    Machamp does not learn U-Turn, nor does he need it.
    I have claimed Tangrowth.
    He's all mine now, hands off.

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    Sorry for bumping this post, but I copy/pasted this team on Smogon's forums for a second opnion from a fresh group of Pokemon Geniuses and ended up having my thread completely wiped off of their competitive RMT forum for no reason. I guess Serebii's where all the knowledge really is, hmm?

    Anywho, I tested out the team and replaced some of my players with some of jesusfreak94's suggestions, which were SUPER helpful, so I thank you good sir.

    But, I ran into a huge problem. I run out of HP way too fast. I think I'm going to need some Wish support as well. Any suggestions?

  7. #7

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    Glad you liked my advice!

    If Dual Screens aren't keeping your Pokemon alive long enough, then you will need Wish support. And I've got just the thing for ya.

    Vaporeon@Leftovers
    Bold
    Water Absorb
    EVs: 188 HP, 252 Def, 68 Spe
    Moves:
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Surf
    -HP Electric

    This will go good over Bronzong, since those Dual Screens may not be helping you.

    Hope this helps!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post

    Vaporeon@Leftovers
    Bold
    Water Absorb
    EVs: 188 HP, 252 Def, 68 Spe
    Moves:
    -Wish
    -Protect
    -Surf
    -HP Electric
    Okay, question. How do I make my HP Electric type? I was actually curious about HP in-game and I asked the guy in the Celadon Game Corner to find out what HP some of my Pokemon would have. And it turns out my Bronzong and my Gengar's HP would be Dragon-type. Is there a way to make them a different type?

  9. #9
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    Alas, those are determined by the Pokemon's IV arrangement and determined at birth. You can look it up on serebii if you're curious, there's a really good explanation.

    It's a shame you can't change them, but to get a good one it just takes lots and lots of breeding. Also, the guy in the game corner is helpful, but what you'd want to do are IV battles with the potential babies. Then you see the IV arrangement and hidden powers before you go through all the hassle of training them.
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    IV battles?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clammeh Hands View Post
    IV battles?
    It's where you battle on WiFi with another person bringing newly breed Pokemon so they are raised to lv 100, then you check their IVs and DC.



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  12. #12

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    Yeah, I forgot that you said that this team is for Wi-Fi. The responses above should help you out, but if you want to you can use Ice Beam over HP Electric. It may not have the same coverage, but it's not a half bad replacement.

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    i think you have the nature messed up
    Adamant (+ Att. -Sp. att.)

    the team is solid nevertheless tho
    Last edited by PungentFruit; 6th September 2010 at 2:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PungentFruit View Post
    i think you have the nature messed up
    Adamant (+ Att. -Sp. att.)

    the team is solid nevertheless tho
    Haha. I noticed that 5 minutes after the first time I posted the first post, and I was like, "Eh, minor detail, nobody'll notice."

    But you win the prize for finding my flaws!

    But seriously, I don't want to do math problems to specifically get the HP Electric for my Wish Support Vaporeon I so desire.

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    Default Version 2.0

    Alright, after much deliberation, and fantastic help from the great people here on the Serebii RMT forums, this is Super-Smash-my-Brother Team....v2.0!

    I hope the mods will let me keep this team here...because it's turned completely into an OU team. Which I just discovered after adding Vaporeon.

    So, the story is the same. My brother and I are going to fight to the death to see whose strategic mind is more superior, with brand new Pokemon each other never would've seen before! [So just to be clear, I'm still making a competitive team, I'm just not going on Wifi....because our router is unrecognized by our DS Lites. Curse you, Grey lock!]

    Bold Stuff is new stuff

    At a glance:

    {These images are all from pokesplash.net, the second-best Pokemon website after Serebii. ;P}


    Machamp @ Lum Berry
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp. Atk)
    DynamicPunch
    Bullet Punch
    Thunderpunch
    Stone Edge

    So here, I have my Machamp. I saw an amazing Machamp lead in a YouTube Wifi battle and immediately knew that I had to have one too, because I know that my brother will not pack any Ghost types, and confusion makes people angry. I'm not much of a set-up guy, and when you have a Machamp lead, you might as well go all out with Attacks. DynamicPunch is a given, No Guard + decent STAB damage + confusion = fantastic. I added Bullet Punch because I know that I'm going to go through this battle and then have one of my brother's Pokemon have that small sliver of health, and I just want to be able to deal with it ASAP. In-game, especially in the Battle Frontier, I hugely (is that a word?) lack Electric-Type attacks, and I think I may have saw a Vaporeon and Skarmory in the works as well over on my opposite's team...Stone Edge is placed in the last slot for just overall for big damage. No real strategy for Machamp. He's just a powerhouse.


    Gengar @ Life Orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Sp. Def
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    Substitute
    Shadow Ball
    Destiny Bond
    Pain Split


    Last night, my brother and I actually play-fought in "Flat Battle" mode, and my play-team was, like a bacteria building a resistance to penicillin, eventually dethroned in the course of 3 battles. Gengar's BIGGEST threat is Scizor....and his fragile Defenses. So after the battles, I went on a huge Gastly breeding spree and collected 6 Timid/Mischievous Pokemon, and discovered that number 2 had 31 IVs in Sp. Attack, which made me super happy. Now, my mindset is, Sub up, straight up Shadow Ballin', Pain Split, repeat until Subs are not a good option and I Destiny Bond.
    Scizor is hella annoying for Gengar too ESPECIALLY if one of the Pokemon death fodder's itself and allows Scizor to come into play. U-Turn? Weak Defenses. Superpower? I laugh in your face. Pursuit? Aw schmuckbuckets. Bullet Punch? Hella annoying, but I can take a couple. I need to Destiny Bond it when it's start's it's Pursuit marathon!


    Bronzong @ Light Clay
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Def, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Atk
    Nature: Sassy (+Sp. Def, -Speed)
    Reflect
    Light Screen
    Stealth Rock
    Gyro Ball................or Explosion?


    Big props go to jesusfreak94 for suggesting this guy (I mean, it). I actually wanted a Sassy or Impish Zong, but I actually received a great Docile one with big IVs in both Defense and Sp. Defense. I think it's sitting on 330ish Defense/Sp. Defense stats, and that's awesome. I'm definitely going to be using this guy as set-up, big thanks to light clay. I wanted to use Leftovers, but I think Vaporeon will find a better use for them. Big dilemma though - Gyro Ball or Explosion? Gyro Ball is pretty good for damage I think.....Uh...Now that I think about it, Zong's 200ish Attack isn't very good and it's slow and coverage is an issue as well...but I hate trying to get Explosions from the Game Corner!! I hate trying to get Explosion!!!!!!


    Infernape @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
    Nature: Rash (+Sp. Atk, -Sp. Def)
    Overheat or Flamethrower....[I have to choose between accuracy and power?! Ughhhhh]
    Grass Knot
    U-Turn
    Close Combat


    I've done my research and MOST Pokemon's Special Defenses are weaker than their Physical counter-parts and I also want to deal with my Scizor problem in case anything goes wrong. I wish he could learn a special Electric attack like Thunderbolt....But I guess that'd make him too powerful, eh?


    Starmie @ (Can't use Life Orb....Item Clause...)
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Nature: Timid
    Surf
    Rapid Spin
    Thunderbolt
    Recover


    Again, BIG props to jesusfreak94. I've done some research on this guy as well and it's fantastic for rapid spinning those darn rocks away! I hate stealth rocks. It ruined my Aerodactyl in the play-battle my brother and I had last night.


    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Absorb
    EVs: 188 HP, 252 Def, 68 Sp. Def
    Wish
    Protect
    Surf
    HP Electric [I am going to hate breeding for the right IVs, I can already tell.]


    In the current metagame, Pokemon are taking huge amounts of "chipping away" damage, if you will. Wish support will hopefully solve that problem for my team and increase our chances of victory!

    EDIT: I forgot to put an outro on here, and I want to keep the mods satisfied, so here goes:

    Over all, I'm looking at this team, and I'm nodding my head. This seems like a much more solid, though not very original OU-looking team. To re-iterate for anybody who zips through this post and just skimming through all of my hard-thought-out text, I want a team that is more on the bulky/special attack based. If I could have a Shuckle with Blissey-class HP, and Gengar-level Special Attack, I would be a happy man and a bit disturbed at the thought of a third-Gengar, third-Blissey, third-Shuckle tri-breed. *shiver. [It would be a very happy...with the cheesy grin and just happiness that follows Blisseys everywhere........yikes.] Wow, sorry, off topic. You probably hate me now. I'm sorry, I can't think of anything else to say for this outro, but any suggestions and help would be greatly appreciated.
    Last edited by Clammeh Hands; 6th September 2010 at 7:23 AM.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clammeh Hands View Post
    Sorry for bumping this post, but I copy/pasted this team on Smogon's forums for a second opnion from a fresh group of Pokemon Geniuses and ended up having my thread completely wiped off of their competitive RMT forum for no reason. I guess Serebii's where all the knowledge really is, hmm??



    I hate to say this, no offense, but when you mention facing your brother the people aren't going to take it serious on Smogon, especially if it is a team that doesn't follow a tier (with some exceptions) and or other specifics which may be hard to explain... No offense again, just saying.


    Onto your new team:

    Starmie needs a hold item:

    You might consider getting rid of Recover for another power move with a choice spec item or something similar. If not... I don't know.

    You may also replace Surf with Ice Beam depending on the idea you have Vaporeon with Surf. (Tanking is pretty good with Vap and you can set up the removal of Recovery with Ice Beam instead if you think it is absolutely horrible an idea)


    Infernape: I'd go with Flamethrower, although Infernape can go "APE" (pardon the pun) on many Pokemon with an Overheat, if you want to deal with Scizor and deal with other Pokemon without FS I'd keep it. Although then again I'm sure someone will suggest OH due to FS may occur anyway.

    (FS=/=Focus Sash)

    Bronzong: Explosion all the way. Gyro Ball is normally not that good without held iron Ball, and you will probably kill something with a final finish of Explosion.

    Vaporeon: You might consider removing one move (aside from Wish) to Baton Pass Wishes to the rest of the team. Otherwise I don't know how you'll pass wishes to support the rest of the team.

    Edit: Don't get rid of Protect or Wish. I'd also keep Surf for Stab, the only problem is getting Taunted or something similar. So I'd say if you don't want to breed for HPE change it for BP to BP support the team. Although, you don't have to do this, you could get rid of Surf, I wouldn't recommend it. That's just me though.
    Last edited by Mewtwo_soul; 6th September 2010 at 8:02 AM. Reason: Change my mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtwo_soul View Post
    I hate to say this, no offense, but when you mention facing your brother the people aren't going to take it serious on Smogon, especially if it is a team that doesn't follow a tier (with some exceptions) and or other specifics which may be hard to explain... No offense again, just saying.
    I was reading through your post and I kept thinking to myself, the only time people mention their brother is when they're twelve or something, and you're absolutely right, I will definitely never mention my brother ever again, strictly for professionalism-sake. Thanks for your honesty.

  18. #18
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    No problem. Hopefully my advice was helpful on some level (towards the team also)
    If I seem like a jerk, at least know it's with good intention.
    "Man is nothing but a miserable pile of secrets." -Dracula SOTN

  19. #19

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    Hey, your team's looking a lot better now! I just want to help you out a little more, if I can.

    I'm going to continue to move that you put Payback/Ice Punch over Thunderpunch/Stone Edge. For the domestic battles that you said you were participating in, this current set may be alright. Still, if you ever feel like moving this team to the advanced competitive environment then I strongly recommend these moves.

    Just as a head up, I'd be real careful about Destiny Bond on Gengar. Like you said, Scizor is one of his biggest enemies, and Bullet Punch can screw Destiny Bond over. If problems arise, go with Focus Blast instead.

    Explosion on Bronzong. Definitely. And Infernape is kinda interesting. I actually like this set. I do recommend that you use a 24Atk/252SpA/232Spe EV spread. As far as your Fire move, I would really recommend Fire Blast. Decent enough accuracy, but more powerful than Flamethrower and more consistent than Overheat. Still, Overheat can be useful due to Choice sets being more hit-and-run anyways. All in all, go with Fire Blast.

    Keep Starmie and Vaporeon as they are. Vaporeon can still pass Wishes even without Baton Pass, and you need the coverage that HP Electric and Surf offer. Otherwise you're completely walled by other Water types. If you're playing under an item clause, then your Starmie is in a delimma. All I can think of is something like a Wacan Berry to weaken Electric attacks from the likes of Rotom-A, one of Starmie's best counters.

    Just a few little nitpicks. Your team's looking alright. Good Luck!

  20. #20
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    Just saying, this isn't exactly a mixed tier team anymore. Just another predictable OU team.

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