The Semi-Final Frontier! (657)

[Gipauchii]

Ash should have used all of his strongest Pokemon in the battle. I don't know why Charizard never returned. Although it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Seeing how that Takuto is a legendary noob, Ash would have lost anyway. Did Takuto also have a Lugia or Deoxys as well. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo pooped out of his Pokeball. Using a legendary trainer to rush the ending wasn't the best idea IMO.

[AcethePuma]

This was the most hilarious episode of Pokemon ever. I hadn't read any spoilers or seen any pics before I saw the episode. When Darkrai went down and LATIOS came out, I burst out laughing. Good show, Pokemon Anime, good show.

Lol i also waited for the episode and the moment darkrai went down i thought "hell yeah at least the legendary is down now wait for....WTF? Latios?" then i laughed my *** of and just thought about ash singing why does it always rain on me....

Poor boy

[jolteonjak]

In this same topic, Serebii posted a rather valid reason for Swellow being chosen, along with other members of Ash's team: they all had some experience battling legendaries. In Swellow's case, it kept up with Speed Forme Deoxys and managed to get in an Aerial Ace.

I can admit, I see why Swellow was chosen even though those two episodes (the Deoxys 2-parter) are now two of the few episodes I have yet to see. I just really dislike it.

And LOL at Galladerocks' commentary.

[uber gon]

Wonder what over the top method will be used to beat Ash in the next league? Maybe Arceus could be his opponent.

[Cazak]

Wonder what over the top method will be used to beat Ash in the next league? Maybe Arceus could be his opponent.

I seriously hope they dont go for a legendary battle again in the next league. 1 was pretty much enough. It would be a huge depriciation on poke'mon if every league trainer was shown to caught them.
Ash:OK Now I am all ready for the league.
In the league, a guy comes up who has legendaries
Ash:No way! Not again! I lost the Sinnoh League because of a guy with 2 legendaries, and now I have to fight another legendary trainer, atleast give me a legendary poke'mon if you are just giving them away writers.
EDIT:Though it was a real good episode.

[freedomrise]

I was like many here that went "OMG, THAT'S A CHEAP WAY to get Ash out of the league" when Latios was sent out after Darkrai was defeated. Ash barely used any strategies when he used Torkoal in this battle, but there again, he didn't have any time to think before it was taken down with one hit. Considering the power of this Darkrai, I think the 1st time use of Overheat is the only thing could have blocked out dark pulse.

What Ash did with Swellow is a direct ripoff of what Winoa used against him, did he honestly think it will work? Really? Seems to be Takuto didn't have to use any strategies, because his pokemons are clearly strong enough to rely on pure power.

Let's hope there isn't going to be a battle against a trainer with so many legendaries in the next league. If there is, I hope it's up against Takuto again to 1st, prevent the overuse of legendaries and 2nd, show improvement in Ash's strength and strategy against someone he lost so badly to.

[raz1337]

Torterra LOL You're funny. Torterra was awful ever since it evolved. People only consider it powerful because of its massive size. It's nothing compared to Paul's Torterra. Replace it with Muk, Kingler, Glalie, or Primeape.

Uhh, Kingler, Glalie or Primeape? WTF. Look back at the battle frontier. That was a display of Ash's strongest Pokemon right before Sinnoh. Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Donphan, much?

[Gaiash]

Torterra LOL You're funny. Torterra was awful ever since it evolved. People only consider it powerful because of its massive size. It's nothing compared to Paul's Torterra. Replace it with Muk, Kingler, Glalie, or Primeape.

It's been unlucky to only be sent out against stronger opponents but it has proven that it is powerful. Yes looking at the team you were quoting Bulbasaur would have been a better choice but Torterra's still pretty strong.

[john A.K.A. young LJ]

it was ******** that ash lost to somebody that had legendaries in the sinnoh league

[Locormus]

I was like many here that went "OMG, THAT'S A CHEAP WAY to get Ash out of the league" when Latios was sent out after Darkrai was defeated.

Ash barely used any strategies when he used Torkoal in this battle, but there again, he didn't have any time to think before it was taken down with one hit. Considering the power of this Darkrai, I think the 1st time use of Overheat is the only thing could have blocked out dark pulse.

What Ash did with Swellow is a direct ripoff of what Winoa used against him, did he honestly think it will work? Really? Seems to be Takuto didn't have to use any strategies, because his pokemons are clearly strong enough to rely on pure power.

Let's hope there isn't going to be a battle against a trainer with so many legendaries in the next league. If there is, I hope it's up against Takuto again to 1st, prevent the overuse of legendaries and 2nd, show improvement in Ash's strength and strategy against someone he lost so badly to.

I have to agree, it's a cheap way. But when you look at the sidefactors of it all:

- The Ash vs. Paul story arc ended, and there was no need for DP to go on beyond that, since that was the thing this saga was constructed around. In a sense Ash beating Paul and proving him right was the story and not necessarily Ash trying to become the champion, in contrast with prior seasons.

- Having Ash be the only person to beat several of this guys' pokemon, is a feat none in Sinnoh did. It makes Ash look better then the finalist. Ash is somebody who can defeat legendaries, other people can't. Ash therefore is special.

Ash didn't use much strategy at all this battle, although some of his pokemon have the moves to do so.

Heracross: Used the most strategy out of all of them, and you can tell Ash picked him because of that: Sleep Talk. Ash was expecting Darkrai to make his pokemon fall asleep and he hoped that he could counter it with one pokemon. Or at least with Heracross being his top counter and the rest was chosen as back up with some form of advantage over Darkrai.

Torkoal: No strategy, just Flamethrowering at Darkrai? Ash.. What happened to Counter Shield??? Or just start of with Iron Defence if you're using a defensive pokemon..

Gible: Rock Smash is the move Ash probably picked it for. But Gible itself could've been used far more effectivily in my opinion. I doubt that Darkrai had a move that could've done anything to Gible if it were using Dig. Then Gible could've shot a Draco Meteor from one of his holes while still being covered. Then it could've hit Darkrai again with Rock Smash when it would've let its guard down after dodging the meteors. I don't see Gible winning, but it could've done a lot better then it did. It even dodged Ice Beam on the ground. The best option would've been for it to just use Dig to evade every attack.

Sceptile: No strategy.. at all.. Just pure luck.. Using Leaf Storm while in range for a Leaf Blade? Why would you do that?

Swellow: No move that's good against Darkrai, so I don't know why it was picked. I think it was a decision of the writers to have an air battle between it and Latios. To took four pokemon to battle Darkrai, and then the remainder to battle Latios. Swellow is Ash' fastest pokemon, so it was the obvious choice, but other then that.. It has no strategies to use other then it's maneuverability and colliding head on with stuff. So no wonder why it didn't use any strategy against Latios.

Pikachu did well enough.. Aside from trying to hit Latios head on, just keep on TBolting when somebody uses Light Screen! xD However, that's also why using 'Volt Tail' was such a good way to go. Psychic attacks like Luster Purge do half damage against Steel types. Iron Tail is a Steel type move so it would gain the upperhand in the clash that they had, and it's also combined with a Stab move, and it's physical, making Light Screen useless.

On Takuto's side..

Darkrai relied on it's offence to defend. When this failed it put something to sleep and stole health. That's probably the trick it did throughout Sinnoh. Makes you wonder why nobody has defeated the thing at all.. Nothing with Insomnia was strong enough or something?

Latios didn't rely so much on speed as I thought it would. Well when it went in for direct damage with Giga Impact it did, and nothing could stop it. But it used Luster Purge from a distance. And if something tried to get a special hit in while it was using Giga Impact, it would use Light Screen.

Latios would otherwise pretty much be a bull in a bullfight.. The red cloth would be the special attack like Thunderbolt, while the pokemon it tried to attack is the matador and attacks it. Light Screen would've covered up this moment of frailness. Since Ash only tried to counter Giga Impact with physical moves, there was no need to use it yet.

It would've been like when a train drives towards a car in a collision clash.. The car would be done for while the train has minimal damage.

You see what Takuto did was basically covering up any possibilities of his pokemon getting in a situation where they would lose the upperhand.

Darkrai: Ow you're strong that you can bust through my attacks? Here's something that will shut you up immediatly, regain my health and go on to the next victim!

Latios: You're going to attack me with beams when I want to hit you directly? I'll put up a Light Screen and it wont hurt!

It's been unlucky to only be sent out against stronger opponents but it has proven that it is powerful. Yes looking at the team you were quoting Bulbasaur would have been a better choice but Torterra's still pretty strong.

Agreed.. Torterra doesn't deserve the shower of complaint its getting.. People say that Torkoal was crap and that the battle against Brandon's Registeel redeemed it sort of. Grotle did the exact same thing against this region's frontier leader, and did the best out of all Ash' pokemon against an Elite Four pokemon.

So what if Registeel is a legendary, they're ain't gods as this episode proved, and they are beatable. Rhyperior is was a beast, so what Grotle did was more then enough redeeming, and I think people are just giving the grass turtle a hard time. That or they're putting Brandon over Palmer for some reason.

[freedomrise]

Torkoal could have been handled a little bit better. It is more of a defensive pokemon than an offensive one. So, Iron defence or Amnesia would have done a great job or Torkoal and vastly increases its survivability. The OHKO is too much for me to understand. 2HKO would have been ok, but OHKO? REALLY?

True that beating Paul was part of the main story of DP, so I'm not too bothered about Ash losing to Takuto. But I can't help but wonder what other pokemons he's got up his sleeve.

[uber gon]

So Sceptile learned Leaf Storm? That's awesome. Hope he uses it in a battle where Ash wins.

[gliscor&yanmega]

Well this battle was a bit more surprising then I thought. Although it was pretty obvious that Ash would lose in the end and at less defeat Darkrai(I think pretty much all most everyone saw that coming).

Although I didn't see Takuto having another Legendary, I was convinced he wouldn't have another, but at less it wasn't Entei, so maybe now people will learn that the Openings don't reveal future battles(Considering Takuto wasn't shown with Lucario or Entie. And Buizel and Infernape didn't battle like some thought based on the Opening). Latios being the other Pokemon is nice, I think this is it's Debut on the anime.

I would have liked it better if the Johto starters were used instead though. Have Totodile evolve and beat Darkrai, Quilava and Bayleef doing some damage to Darkrai and/or Latios. But oh well.

I didn't think we would see Paul(Since it seemed like he left after he lost), but I wasn't crazy about how Paul seemed disappointed, it kind of looked like he lost all the respect he gain for Ash in the previous episode. I think him smiling and saying something like "Good work Ash" would have been better, in my opinion.

Takuto winning the whole thing didn't come as a surprise, and him beating the other guy with just Darkrai wasn't a surprise either. Although I would have liked to see what other Pokemon he had.

In the end I'm a little annoyed with Takuto. I'm not saying he's a boring character or anything, in fact I think he's very interesting and that's why I'm annoyed, we may never see him again which means we wont learn about how he got his legendary and learn more about him. Hopefully the writers do something so he appears again or something.

[Blastizard]

Terrible choice of team on Ash's part, save Septile and arguably Pikachu.

He should have used the best, most experienced Pokemon he has at his disposal - IMHO his team should have been more like:

Infernape
Sceptile
Charizard
Snorlax
Pikachu
Swellow

But Torkoal?? Heracross?? Granted Ash never stood a chance from the onset, but seriously, when you KNOW you are facing a trainer with uber pokemon you make sure you counter with the best team at your disposal. Ash didn't.

Then again, the whole thing was a sickening cop-out. As has already been said, Ash never really stood a chance anyway - regardless of what others say I maintain the opinion that this was a cheap, hasty, transparent, method of ending the league. Having some idiot with a team of ubers defeat everyone makes the whole thing worthless. It'd be like someone winning Olympic gold in everything they enter despite the officals knowing that person was using steroids. As has been said (in jest) already, makes you wonder if Arceus was Tackyto's starter.

And WHY didn't we see Tackyto battle Cynthia?? How can Cynthia be Champion with an idiot like Tacky around???

[Blastizard]

If pikachu can tie with a latios, he better not lose to some joke next season.

Of course he will! Reset button gets pushed as soon as Ash sets foot in a new region. Despite having somewhere around 43 gym badges and four good Pokemon League rankings, we'll be back to him being a rookie trainer with an inconsistent starter pokemon.

[gliscor&yanmega]

Terrible choice of team on Ash's part, save Septile and arguably Pikachu.

How should I put this, well first off your opinion doesn't equal fact. The team Ash used could have been the best possible choice for him at that moment. If that's what the writers want then that's how it is. Considering Ash took down two of Takuto's Legendary Pokemon while no one else could even take down Darkrai, I think it was a pretty good choice of team, and it probably wouldn't have gone any different if he used other Pokemon, considering the writers didn't want Ash to win so he had to lose and that would be the case no matter what Pokemon he used.

He should have used the best, most experienced Pokemon he has at his disposal - IMHO his team should have been more like:

Infernape
Sceptile
Charizard
Snorlax
Pikachu
Swellow

You forgot to mention Swellow at the start of your post...since you were saying which Pokemon on his team that he used were good choices.

But again that's your opinion. Experience doesn't automatically mean you win or you will even come close to it. The writers still would have those Pokemon go down quickly like the others since Ash isn't suppose to win since the writers want to drag Pokemon on until who knows when. Ash winning the league would cause a problem down the road since the only other advance for Ash would be taking on the Elite Four, even though they could drag that out forever as well, but Ash should be placed in Top 4 and Top 2 first to show he's getting better but still making some sense, all he needs now is Top 2.

But Torkoal?? Heracross?? Granted Ash never stood a chance from the onset, but seriously, when you KNOW you are facing a trainer with uber pokemon you make sure you counter with the best team at your disposal. Ash didn't.

Opinion. Yours. Fact. Not. (In case you don't know what I said, "That's your opinion, it's not a fact").

Heracross had a lot of advantages in the battle, had three very powerful moves two of which are super effective against Darkrai. Heracross had Sleep Talk so it could still attack even when it was put to sleep. Plus a lot of people think Heracross is strong. It went down fast, but was able to get a hit. It just shows that even when you have an advantage that doesn't mean you'll win.

I can't really explain Torkoal other then the writers wanting someone to fall quick to hype Darkrai even more. Probably would have been the same whoever it was, Infernape, Charizard, both would have fall in one hit if the writers wanted them to.

Then again, the whole thing was a sickening cop-out. As has already been said, Ash never really stood a chance anyway - regardless of what others say I maintain the opinion that this was a cheap, hasty, transparent, method of ending the league. Having some idiot with a team of ubers defeat everyone makes the whole thing worthless. It'd be like someone winning Olympic gold in everything they enter despite the officals knowing that person was using steroids. As has been said (in jest) already, makes you wonder if Arceus was Tackyto's starter.

If you knew Ash didn't stand a chance then why bother complaining about it and wishing it went another way. If you didn't like the battle then fine but it's no reason to bash Ash or the writers.

I wasn't crazy about the team Ash used since I wanted to see other Pokemon, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the episode.

I don't see how Takuto having two Legendary Pokemon is cheap. It just shows he's a good trainer with powerful Pokemon. There has been others who had Legendary Pokemon and there is probably more people with them too. It's a way to show Ash that he has a long way to go if he wants to be a Pokemon Master. I'm sure the writers try and top the last leagues all the time, and I think they did a great job with bringing in Legendary Pokemon, gives Ash a more hard time which is always good to build character.

Why is Takuto an idiot? You're just bashing him for no reason other then you not liking what happened which is hardly a good reason. Takuto seems pretty intelligent to me which would mean he's not an idiot. Takuto is a very powerful trainer and if other trainers can't beat him then that's their fault for not being good enough, they just have to train more and hope they done enough.

It's not like that at all. I'm pretty sure steroids are illegal in sports and that, and if the officials knew steroids were being used then that person would be removed from the game. Although using Legendary Pokemon is obviously not against the rules and isn't the same as taking steroids, so it's not anything like that.

I don't know who would even consider Takuto having Arceus, especially as his starter. Arceus is probably a solo creature, being only one of it, where as Darkrai and Latios can have more then one of themselves. Joke or not, it makes no sense either way.

And WHY didn't we see Tackyto battle Cynthia?? How can Cynthia be Champion with an idiot like Tacky around???

Because Takuto isn't a main character and we aren't going to see him vs Cynthia since it would be too long and there is not enough time since DP is almost over. Maybe we will see Ash seeing him facing the Elite Four on TV, and he loses in the end(Since the Elite Four are much stronger then others, and if he does get to Cynthia then her Garchomp could probably take down Latios or Darkrai by it's self, in my opinion).

[Blastizard]

How should I put this, well first off your opinion doesn't equal fact. The team Ash used could have been the best possible choice for him at that moment. If that's what the writers want then that's how it is. Considering Ash took down two of Takuto's Legendary Pokemon while no one else could even take down Darkrai, I think it was a pretty good choice of team, and it probably wouldn't have gone any different if he used other Pokemon, considering the writers didn't want Ash to win so he had to lose and that would be the case no matter what Pokemon he used.



You forgot to mention Swellow at the start of your post...since you were saying which Pokemon on his team that he used were good choices.

But again that's your opinion. Experience doesn't automatically mean you win or you will even come close to it. The writers still would have those Pokemon go down quickly like the others since Ash isn't suppose to win since the writers want to drag Pokemon on until who knows when. Ash winning the league would cause a problem down the road since the only other advance for Ash would be taking on the Elite Four, even though they could drag that out forever as well, but Ash should be placed in Top 4 and Top 2 first to show he's getting better but still making some sense, all he needs now is Top 2.



Opinion. Yours. Fact. Not. (In case you don't know what I said, "That's your opinion, it's not a fact").

Heracross had a lot of advantages in the battle, had three very powerful moves two of which are super effective against Darkrai. Heracross had Sleep Talk so it could still attack even when it was put to sleep. Plus a lot of people think Heracross is strong. It went down fast, but was able to get a hit. It just shows that even when you have an advantage that doesn't mean you'll win.

I can't really explain Torkoal other then the writers wanting someone to fall quick to hype Darkrai even more. Probably would have been the same whoever it was, Infernape, Charizard, both would have fall in one hit if the writers wanted them to.



If you knew Ash didn't stand a chance then why bother complaining about it and wishing it went another way. If you didn't like the battle then fine but it's no reason to bash Ash or the writers.

I wasn't crazy about the team Ash used since I wanted to see other Pokemon, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the episode.

I don't see how Takuto having two Legendary Pokemon is cheap. It just shows he's a good trainer with powerful Pokemon. There has been others who had Legendary Pokemon and there is probably more people with them too. It's a way to show Ash that he has a long way to go if he wants to be a Pokemon Master. I'm sure the writers try and top the last leagues all the time, and I think they did a great job with bringing in Legendary Pokemon, gives Ash a more hard time which is always good to build character.

Why is Takuto an idiot? You're just bashing him for no reason other then you not liking what happened which is hardly a good reason. Takuto seems pretty intelligent to me which would mean he's not an idiot. Takuto is a very powerful trainer and if other trainers can't beat him then that's their fault for not being good enough, they just have to train more and hope they done enough.

It's not like that at all. I'm pretty sure steroids are illegal in sports and that, and if the officials knew steroids were being used then that person would be removed from the game. Although using Legendary Pokemon is obviously not against the rules and isn't the same as taking steroids, so it's not anything like that.

I don't know who would even consider Takuto having Arceus, especially as his starter. Arceus is probably a solo creature, being only one of it, where as Darkrai and Latios can have more then one of themselves. Joke or not, it makes no sense either way.



Because Takuto isn't a main character and we aren't going to see him vs Cynthia since it would be too long and there is not enough time since DP is almost over. Maybe we will see Ash seeing him facing the Elite Four on TV, and he loses in the end(Since the Elite Four are much stronger then others, and if he does get to Cynthia then her Garchomp could probably take down Latios or Darkrai by it's self, in my opinion).

Thanks for the insults and condescending attitude. Not sure why the hositiility. Yes it was my opinion, as you shoved down my throat several times, but guess what? I'm just a entitled to one as you are.

[gliscor&yanmega]

Thanks for the insults and condescending attitude. Not sure why the hositiility. Yes it was my opinion, as you shoved down my throat several times, but guess what? I'm just a entitled to one as you are.

I didn't intend to be insulting, if you took it that way then that's you. Now, hostile I was, since I was strongly against what you said. So I gave my opinion right back.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, although I don't agree with that. There is giving your opinion on something and then just plain bashing something. If I see someone who is bashing a character or the writers, I tend to step in and defend them(Even if I don't like what the character or writer did) since I enjoy the show and I don't enjoy seeing posts that bash the show I enjoy.

[firestar319]

I re-watched the battle again, and I noticed that at the very beginning when Takuto threw his pokeball to call out Darkrai, he threw the pokeball upside down.

[pokeguru]

Tobias was... way overrated.

He should have five regular Pokemon along with Darkrai or Latios.

This episode's gonna suck for me.

[sandeep87]

Why Chalizard was not used when ash knew he is up with darkrai.

Chalizard was the one who took out Articuno..

[Elxar]

Of course he will! Reset button gets pushed as soon as Ash sets foot in a new region. Despite having somewhere around 43 gym badges and four good Pokemon League rankings, we'll be back to him being a rookie trainer with an inconsistent starter pokemon.

Sadly after beating a Latios, Pikachu will lose to Snivy and a Panpour (water type).

Why Chalizard was not used when ash knew he is up with darkrai.

Chalizard was the one who took out Articuno.

Because Johto was too faraway, Charizard can only fly to Kanto. Though some proper arrangement can make it come back.

Even if Ash constructed the his strongest Team won't change the fact that he is meant to lose. THe only thing we gripe about is that he should have not lost big time after reaching this far.

[Mudkip8003]

Well, this EP is going on in 5 min, so yeah, I'm watching it.

EDIT: That guy gained respect for Ash faster then Paul...

[matt0044]

For a God Mode Sue and a total *** Pull, Tobias wasn't all to bad. All he need is a backstory on how he got Darkrai and Latios to be a better character.

P.S. THE DUB KEPT ALL THE JAPANESE MUSIC!!!!!! OMFG!

[Torpoleon]

I thought it was a good battle. It was shocking that Sceptile beat Darkrai when Darkrai basically had full HP. It does suck that Torkoal was taken down the easiest. Ash probably should have substituted Torkoal for Infernape. I like how Drakrai uses Ice Beam. Pikachu uses Volt Tail was cool, but it sucked that Ash lost. At least he beat two Legendary Pokémon. I wonder what other Pokémon Tobias has. I still think DP188 was better, but this is to cool down from the epic Ash VS Paul Battle.
9/10