This episode was pretty epic, and one of all-time favorites.
That being, the criticism I have for it:
* Ash used have used his entire Hoenn team (Pikachu/Corphish/Torkoal/Sceptile/Swellow/Glalie). I mean Heracross was a strategic pick but he already got a battle before, and Gible featured heavily against Conway. Corphish and Glalie should have been used instead. Corphish/Torkoal/Swellow/Glalie should have taken out Darkrai with Glalie getting the win. Glalie/Sceptile should have taken out Latios with Sceptile getting the win. And Pikachu should have drew against third Legendary.
* Torkoal has battled a Legendary before in Brandon's Registeel and almost beat it. No way it should have died that easily.
* Swellow losing to Latios that quickly was complete PIS considering Swellow built a reputation for stamina and toughness. I would have loved to see an aerial duel before Swellow got KO'd.
Takuto is surely insane since his Darkrai wins all but one battle. I think Darkrai learning Reito Bimu is not necessary since it is an ice type move and done little to develop Darkrai. Takuto should command Darkrai to use Nightmare which is much better suit in my opinion.
Last edited by Lord Trollbias; 25th August 2014 at 7:06 AM.
Well, I liked that we got to see Sceptile battle again. And Pikachu vs Latios was pretty epic.
The rest sucked.
I can't help but wonder if Tobias was used on purpose as a deliberate mock of those players who use nothing but legendary pokemon in WiFi battles. If so, then they should have given Darkrai and Latios their shiny colours. That would have been the icing on the cake.
This episode was the WORST EVER. I mean seriously Tobias walks in out of nowhere and brings out a Darkrai and Latois who in the games are classified as Uber Pokémon and aren't allowed in competitions such as the Battle Tower or the Pokémon world Tournament. It's totally unfair. He cheated using those Pokémon. Whatever happened to cheaters never prosper. and Tobais didn't even get any character development. He's just this big silent mysterious guy who everyone seems to soil themselves whenever he comes by. I mean if I were Ash and I knew he was competing in the league I would have just quit and tried again the next year. It was almost heartbreaking to watch Heracross, Torkoal and Gible fall without any real fight and Ash become all sad and frustrated when he realises how badly he is going to loose. Thought it certainly wiped the smug smile off Tobias's face when Sceptile beat Darkrai - but then he just pulls out Latios and goes on to knock out Sceptile and Swellow really easily. Then we get to Pikachu who puts up a really decent fight although almost gets killed when they fly so high above the stadium. I'm kinda glad the tied because it gave Ash a sort of positive note to finish on.
But seriously people like to have a go at Cameron from Unova when he beats Ash with only five Pokémon. This bloke Tobais takes out Ash's entire team with only 2 Pokémon which were both legendary. Ash never even had a chance. That's just downright humiliating. At least with Cameron they were evenly matched and both sides put in their all, and Cameron clearly had a strong bond with his Pokémon (especially Lucario). Tobais was just like, Dark void - Your dead Haracross, Dark void - lights out Torkoal, Peekaboo I KO you Gible. Now Darkrai. What's this my Darkai has been knocked out for the first time ever. Oh dear. I'd just better pull out one of my other legendary Pokémon so I can mop the floor with Ash, hurt his best friend Pikachu and crush his hopes and dreams. And it's not even 10:00am. I must say. Not a bad morning. I mean what on earth were the writers thinking. A bloke with legendaries just demolishes Ash and destroys all his hard work and the fans love it despite Tobais cheating, and yet when Ash's friend and kindred spirt Cameron battle their all and Ash looses they hate it despite Cameron having earned the win.
On a positive note, as a romantic Pikashipper I liked the way Ash got a bit of confidence back when he saw the determined look on Pikachu's face and was able to make a reasonable come back with his best friends (or more) assistance. Ash and Pikachu were very much in sync in that last battle. It was a strong finish to an otherwise ridged and unfair match. And then he does the usual of making sure Pikachu is okay and giving him a hug and telling him he did well. It's very sweet. But other than that this was a terrible ending to Ash's journey in Sinnoh. Tobais is easily one of my most hated characters because of this.
People enjoy Tobias because even despite the loss it still shows Ash's progress as he manages to a.) achieve his highest League rank b.) shows skill by beating 2 Legendary Pokemon in the same battle c.) showcased that Ash was probably the strongest trainer in the Sinnoh League d.) shows Ash still has another level to go reach and that his current end of region DP level can still be bettered leaving room for improvement in BW
which incidentally pisses people off about the Unova League, especially Cameron because it completely regresses not just Ash's DP level, but also his constant improvement in all the previous sagas.
Last edited by Lord Trollbias; 19th January 2015 at 4:54 PM.
I actually thought the battle in this episode wasn't as bad as it seemed, in fact I thought it was pretty epic that Ash took down 2 legendary Pokemon when no one has ever beat Tobias' Darkrai. It was also clear that Ash was the 2nd strongest in this league and he only lost because the writers needed to keep him in the anime at the time. I honestly wouldn't mind a repeat of this battle if Ash needs to lose in a future league.
Great battle that made Ash look impressive, although it wasn't perfect.
And while it's not unreasonable Ash loose to a trainer he's never met before, why did have to be a totally over powered trainer with legendaries. Tobais was always going to win. We knew it going in. Even if Ash were the strongest in the Sinnoh league it was still unfair he got whipped out by a legendary user. Tobias showed connection or bond with his Pokemon. He didn't say anything nice to Latios whereas Cameron was happily spinning Lucario round and round. It was cute. Tobias just look like he was using them as battle slaves. He gave off a harsh and cold demeanour. When you saw him taking the cup it felt like the wrong person had won. When Virgil won in Unova you had a good feeling. Sort of if Ash didn't win at least someone who deserved it did.
I don't see the fact that Ash obtained a higher ranking in Sinnoh than Unova as a good enough excuse to have a go at Cameron. Ash was just lucky that he didn't have to face Tobais until that point in the competition. If he had had the misfortune to meet him in the preliminary rounds it would have been all over red rover before the match even started. I agree a better way to have done Unova would have been to have Ash face and loose to Cameron in the Semi finals or finals (and possibly have Cameron win the league) and have Ash defeat Virgil in the Quarter finals (which I think he could have done with his Unova team). I don't actually think Ash was any better in Sinnoh than Unova. His Pokémon were relatively high powered and able to pull off some impressive feats. I think it's perfectly plausible that Snivy could have defeated Darkrai. She as strong as Sceptile or at least has the potential to be.
As for cheating. Yes he was not stopped from entering the league with the two legendary Pokémon but I have to wonder what the writers were thinking when they created a character who uses legendary Pokémon. To me using legendary Pokémon in a regional championship (in which all the other Pokémon are not legendary) would be like Ian Thorpe entering the Weet-bix Triathlon and blood doping to improve his performance. Given it's rare in the games for someone to use legendary Pokémon and even the champion does not it's almost a little insulting to fans of Ash and Pikachu to see a bloke with 2 bloody legendaries come in and mop the floor with the entire tournament and destroy everyones hard work effortlessly. Ash worked so hard to be in the league he did not deserve to get owed by some unknown bloke with legendary Pokémon. The legendary or legendaries that the player obtains are always linked to the story line or are caught as event Pokémon post game. For goodness sake, not even the elite four or Cynthia use legendary Pokémon and they are the strongest trainers in Sinnoh.
Yes, Brandon did use the reggi trio but Brandon is a special case. First of all he is identified as a very strong trainer who only the best take on. This is true in the games as well - you have to defeat the battle frontier to battle him. Secondly Brandon received some character development and aside from his tough guy act it was clear he had compassion for his Pokémon. Thirdly Brandon uses other Pokémon not just three legendaries and he was not competition in a competition that seemed like it was mostly for children. Finally Brandon was an archeologist so it's not hard to see how he obtained them. With Tobias it is never explained and I personally believe it could have been fraudulent.
Last edited by Pikachu52; 20th January 2015 at 9:48 AM.
If you're really comparing a loss to a possible Elite 4 tier opponent who destroyed an entire region to a loss to a guy who can't even figure out the Unova League is suppossed to take place in Unova then I'll be here laughing.
The E4 and Cynthia don't use Legendaries? So what. There is not a said defined path to becoming the strongest now is there. And this is not even touching upon how strong Tobias's Pokemon would have to be to even stand a chance when he went to capture said Legendaries in the first place. The conventional route to facing the E4 is through the League. Ergo he wants to beat the E4 and challenge Cynthia for her spot. So yes he's going to bring his OP team through the League to win it and gain acess to battling the E4 and possibly Cynthia.
The blood doping example holds no merit since it is not cheating to start with no matter how much you try to claim it is.
I personally didn't care for Swellow and Torkoal being destroyed so quickly (Swellow because it can do much better, and Torkoal because it loses a lot) but that's forgivable for obvious reasons. It was a good episode and the Pikachu vs. Latios was really enjoyable.
But just because the episode was enjoyable, doesn't mean the episode should have happened. There are some aspects that were really bad. Firstly the writing was kind of lazy. How much sense does it make that someone could use one Pokemon to sweep through a competition designed to find a champion? If his only competition is so much weaker than he is, then how did he get that strong in the first place? You could argue that instead of making Ash look good, Tobias made every Sinnoh gym and every competitor in the Pokemon League look awful.
This episode also really made it clear that Ash was never going to win a Pokemon League, and the fact that the main character will never succeed is not something you want to convince your viewers.
One other problem I had was that Pikachu and Latios looked dead when the battle finished. I don't think the Pokemon should have to battle until they look like they're about to die. Battles can still be enjoyable without the overly brutal scenes. >_>
Last edited by Bill Cipher; 15th February 2015 at 11:28 PM.
And I am comparing The Tobias and Cameron battles in that it's odd people are happy with Ash loosing to a bloke with two Pokemon but not one with five and that Ash lost to a character only writen to win. A Tobias is is a symbol Ash will never win a league. Furthermore if he is a cheater then he is hardly elite four material.
Just because Ash finished one step behind in Unova than he did in Sinnoh does not make it a regression. He's not going to do brilliantly all the time and it's more realistic to see him do slightly worse the next time round. Can anyone involved in any form of high level competition honestly say they have constantly improved without any exception. The main thing to do is to learn from your mistakes and try to improve for next time. Not an unreasonable point for the anime to make given it is a children's show. His Pokémon are not any better or worse in terms of their achievements in Unova than they have been in any other region and nobody seems to have consider that the level of competition in Unova, with the exception of Tobias may have been much higher than in Sinnoh, evidence by the fact that Ash finished a run lower there than he did in Sinnoh. Cameron is probably a better trainer than Paul given he has a team of six fully evolved Pokémon and he is show to treat them with kindness and respect, where as Paul did not and relied on strength and cruelty.
The comparison I am making is that it is odd that fans will hate on Cameron for winning with 5 Pokémon when Tobias did the same thing with 2. The inclusion of Tobias was completely unfair and I do consider the use of legendaries in this context cheating for the reasons I have explained.
Last edited by Pikachu52; 20th January 2015 at 7:15 AM.
Last edited by Pikachu52; 28th January 2015 at 1:05 AM.
This episode has some great dialogue that I caught on a rewatch.
Jessie: Is it me or is Darkrai strong?
James: What a keen grasp of the obvious.
Also Tobias taunted Ash so hard. When he revealed Latios he said "To think I'm using my 2nd Pokemon here in this Pokeball!" The emphasis on Pokeball was heavy. Having a Latios is no big deal. Catching it in a Pokeball? You're done Ash.
That was a good episode. I think Ash should've used his Charizard, Infernape, or something instead of Torkoal. Plus, I think Ash should've gotten an award for being the first one to defeat Tobias' Darkrai.
I wonder what the last guy's other Pokemon were besides Magmortar?