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Thread: The Atheism Club

  1. #2726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neferka View Post
    To be fair, I think this only crops up in certain areas in the US ^_^;

    It does make me wonder if this is going to escalate into another Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District style trial. Maybe something like Everyone living in reality v. the Tennessee state legislature XD
    It's just not fair. There's no good reason to mobilize such forces against the theory of evolution by natural selection (I leave climate science and origin cosmology alone, not being as aware of the goings-on in those fields as I am in biology), while leaving other fundamental scientific theories like the various physics of motion and force, including gravity, unargued.

    The criticism in "top-level" apologetic literature that I've read is that this is the fault of biologists for describing the theory as "unguided." Apologists trying to rectify science with Christian theism accuse biologists of "poisoning the well" in this fashion, clarifying that the "unguided" aspect of the theory of evolution by natural selection is an unscientific add-on, biased against a theistic worldview, and thus a concerted attempt by bad scientists to falsely pit science against religion. I don't understand what makes them think any of that makes sense!

    Evolution by natural selection is "unguided" by definition! If it wasn't unguided, it wouldn't be evolution by natural selection! The theory describes a completely mechanical, almost automatic development and differentiation of replicating bodies in a limited environment - there is no room or need for a guiding deity. In fact it would not be a scientific theory if it had to (or simply did) posit God's vigilant control over the whole process. There's no need to hypothesize God pruning chromosomes or stirring a pot of DNA or arranging certain animals in certain environments, just like there's no need to hypothesize God blowing photons through space with His eternal omnidirectional breath or pulling matter toward other matter with His infinite and infitinely small, invisible fingers. To paraphrase Laplace, we just don't have a need for those hypotheses. No scientific theories whatsoever posit any deities at all as part of their explanatory mechanism, so singling out evolution is farcical on the face of it. For crying out loud, that's the point of science: explaining how things work in utterly natural terms, avoiding the supernatural.

    And much of the lay anti-evolution crusade is based on the misunderstanding that evolution by natural selection also asserts a not-God origin of all life. It doesn't; the theory only explains the development and variation of life, not how it got here in the first place. That's where origin chemistry comes in, but all we ever hear about are these stupid court cases on evolution. The reason religious folks are going after evolution isn't even a real problem with evolution, and yet we have apparently ignorant judges and politicians going right along with it and ruling in awful, debilitating decisions that dampen and confuse the science education of kid in this country.

    Ugh, it's all so useless and detestable! >_<

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  2. #2727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Profesco View Post
    It's just not fair. There's no good reason to mobilize such forces against the theory of evolution by natural selection (I leave climate science and origin cosmology alone, not being as aware of the goings-on in those fields as I am in biology), while leaving other fundamental scientific theories like the various physics of motion and force, including gravity, unargued.

    The criticism in "top-level" apologetic literature that I've read is that this is the fault of biologists for describing the theory as "unguided." Apologists trying to rectify science with Christian theism accuse biologists of "poisoning the well" in this fashion, clarifying that the "unguided" aspect of the theory of evolution by natural selection is an unscientific add-on, biased against a theistic worldview, and thus a concerted attempt by bad scientists to falsely pit science against religion. I don't understand what makes them think any of that makes sense!

    Evolution by natural selection is "unguided" by definition! If it wasn't unguided, it wouldn't be evolution by natural selection! The theory describes a completely mechanical, almost automatic development and differentiation of replicating bodies in a limited environment - there is no room or need for a guiding deity. In fact it would not be a scientific theory if it had to (or simply did) posit God's vigilant control over the whole process. There's no need to hypothesize God pruning chromosomes or stirring a pot of DNA or arranging certain animals in certain environments, just like there's no need to hypothesize God blowing photons through space with His eternal omnidirectional breath or pulling matter toward other matter with His infinite and infitinely small, invisible fingers. To paraphrase Laplace, we just don't have a need for those hypotheses. No scientific theories whatsoever posit any deities at all as part of their explanatory mechanism, so singling out evolution is farcical on the face of it. For crying out loud, that's the point of science: explaining how things work in utterly natural terms, avoiding the supernatural.
    And much of the lay anti-evolution crusade is based on the misunderstanding that evolution by natural selection also asserts a not-God origin of all life. It doesn't; the theory only explains the development and variation of life, not how it got here in the first place. That's where origin chemistry comes in, but all we ever hear about are these stupid court cases on evolution. The reason religious folks are going after evolution isn't even a real problem with evolution, and yet we have apparently ignorant judges and politicians going right along with it and ruling in awful, debilitating decisions that dampen and confuse the science education of kid in this country.

    Ugh, it's all so useless and detestable! >_<
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  3. #2728
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    Just want to make sure if we're all agreed for the faqs Profesco wrote? If so I'll put together the rest of what we need, and we'll go with Nefreka's art and add more as we see fit.

    L.F.D.

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    I agree with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darato View Post
    Just want to make sure if we're all agreed for the faqs Profesco wrote? If so I'll put together the rest of what we need, and we'll go with Nefreka's art and add more as we see fit.

    L.F.D.
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  6. #2731
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzukanAsimbu View Post
    Santas brought you a video today.

    I found this to be witty of Thunderf00t

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ch-W...32RVAAAAAAAADQ
    Lol very nice I can't believe Venomfangx showed his face again after getting laughed off YT... I guess the fool in sunglasses is supposed to 'scare' his detractors XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Profesco View Post
    It's just not fair. There's no good reason to mobilize such forces against the theory of evolution by natural selection.
    I wonder though, is the force really that great or is it just particularly loud and operating under an enormous confirmation bias that is allowing it to disseminate it propaganda without shame?

    The criticism in "top-level" apologetic literature that I've read is that this is the fault of biologists for describing the theory as "unguided." Apologists trying to rectify science with Christian theism accuse biologists of "poisoning the well" in this fashion, clarifying that the "unguided" aspect of the theory of evolution by natural selection is an unscientific add-on, biased against a theistic worldview, and thus a concerted attempt by bad scientists to falsely pit science against religion. I don't understand what makes them think any of that makes sense!
    Evolution by natural selection is "unguided" by definition! If it wasn't unguided, it wouldn't be evolution by natural selection! The theory describes a completely mechanical, almost automatic development and differentiation of replicating bodies in a limited environment - there is no room or need for a guiding deity. In fact it would not be a scientific theory if it had to (or simply did) posit God's vigilant control over the whole process. There's no need to hypothesize God pruning chromosomes or stirring a pot of DNA or arranging certain animals in certain environments, just like there's no need to hypothesize God blowing photons through space with His eternal omnidirectional breath or pulling matter toward other matter with His infinite and infitinely small, invisible fingers. To paraphrase Laplace, we just don't have a need for those hypotheses. No scientific theories whatsoever posit any deities at all as part of their explanatory mechanism, so singling out evolution is farcical on the face of it. For crying out loud, that's the point of science: explaining how things work in utterly natural terms, avoiding the supernatural.

    And much of the lay anti-evolution crusade is based on the misunderstanding that evolution by natural selection also asserts a not-God origin of all life. It doesn't; the theory only explains the development and variation of life, not how it got here in the first place. That's where origin chemistry comes in, but all we ever hear about are these stupid court cases on evolution. The reason religious folks are going after evolution isn't even a real problem with evolution, and yet we have apparently ignorant judges and politicians going right along with it and ruling in awful, debilitating decisions that dampen and confuse the science education of kid in this country.

    Ugh, it's all so useless and detestable! >_<
    I find it increadibly frustrating too. The reason I began to investigate apologetics and arguements to debunk anti-evolution retoric was because I was accosted by some pentecostal prosthelytize who told me that there were no fossils of anceint homonid species such as Australopithecus afarensis. People that think this way have seriously entered the twilight zone, because to make such a claim you'd have to believe that thousands of paeleontologists across time and space have the capacity to cook up a conspiracy of epic proportions. Having said that paranoia and magical thinking isn't exactly an alien concept to people of the theistic persuausion ^_^;

    It is also frustrating how people like Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort, Christopher Monckton, Hamza Tzortzis, etc., who must have had their misconceptions about evolution and climate science pointed out and corrected millions of times, can continue to repeat their nonsense without shame... Then again if you watched that YT video I linked some time ago with Carol Tavris (called 'Mistakes Were Made' LINK) it might just be human nature sadly =/

    I get the feeling (when reading anti-science/anti-evolution creationist propaganda) that the people writing these things are using a theistic mindset to evaluate science and evolution. That is, something that is quite short sighted and inflexible. It's like when someone (even atheist regrettably) bring up infinity when talking about time for instance, and then they go on to say '...like trillions of billions of years'. This is absurd since the value they just mentioned is actually insignificant in comparison to infinity (as is any finite number XD ). It suggests that they haven't quite wrapped their minds around the concept of infinity.

    Of all the people responsible for promoting anti-evolution retoric I would have to say Kent Hovind stands head and shoulders above everyone else simply because he had been so successful in producing and spreading his 'theories'... It has gotten to the point where I will be watching some creationist video on YT and I can trace back their whole argument to some ancient Hovind lecture or seminar. Even creationist 'lecturers' like Russ Miller will copy parts of Hovinds lectures verbatim, glaring errors and all. The most interesting thing happens, however, when they copy but then go on to embellish the Hovind apologetics and so called evidence against evolution. I think it says a lot about the mindset.

    I think what the US needs is a Carl Sagan like figure who can narrate television programs about science and evolution on mainstream TV in a tone that the layman and young people can understand... Maybe then when the science teacher at school starts spouting some bunk about 'kinds' of animals and so called 'evolution controversies' the students can see creationism for what it is.
    Last edited by Neferka; 1st April 2012 at 12:48 PM.


  7. #2732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neferka View Post
    Lol very nice I can't believe Venomfangx showed his face again after getting laughed off YT... I guess the fool in sunglasses is supposed to 'scare' his detractors XD



    I wonder though, is the force really that great or is it just particularly loud and operating under an enormous confirmation bias that is allowing it to disseminate it propaganda without shame?



    I find it increadibly frustrating too. The reason I began to investigate apologetics and arguements to debunk anti-evolution retoric was because I was accosted by some pentacostal prosthlotiser who told me that there were no fossils of anceint homonid species such as Australopithicus aferensis. People that think this way have seriously entered the twilight zone, because to make such a claim you'd have to believe that thousands of paeleontologists across time and space have the capacity to cook up a conspiracy of epic proportions. Having said that paranoia and magical thinking isn't exactly an alien concept to people of the theistic persuausion ^_^;

    It is also frustrating how people like Kent Hovind, Ray Comfort, Christopher Monckton, Hamza Tzortzis, etc., who must have had their misconceptions about evolution and climate science pointed out and corrected millions of times, can continue to repeat their nonsense without shame... Then again if you watched that YT video I linked some time ago with Carol Tavris (called 'Mistakes Were Made' LINK) it might just be human nature sadly =/

    I get the feeling (when reading anti-science/anti-evolution creationist propaganda) that the people writing these things are using a theistic mindset to evaluate science and evolution. That is, something that is quite short sighted and inflexible. It's like when someone (even atheist regrettably) bring up infinity when talking about time for instance, and then they go on to say '...like trillions of billions of years'. This is absurd since the value they just mentioned is actually insignificant in comparison to infinity (as is any finite number XD ). It suggests that they haven't quite wrapped their minds around the concept of infinity.

    Of all the people responsible for promoting anti-evolution retoric I would have to say Kent Hovind stands head and shoulders above everyone else simply because he had been so successful in producing and spreading his 'theories'... It has gotten to the point where I will be watching some creationist video on YT and I can trace back their whole argument to some ancient Hovind lecture or seminar. Even creationist 'lecturers' like Russ Miller will copy parts of Hovinds lectures verbatim, glaring errors and all. The most interesting thing happens, however, when they copy but then go on to embellish the Hovind apologetics and so called evidence against evolution. I think it says a lot about the mindset.

    I think what the US needs is a Carl Sagan like figure who can narrate television programs about science and evolution on mainstream TV in a tone that the layman and young people can understand... Maybe then when the science teacher at school starts spouting some bunk about 'kinds' of animals and so called 'evolution controversies' the students can see creationism for what it is.
    Neil Tyson? I watched a Nova episode today with him :3
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  8. #2733
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    Sent the remake in now we just need to wait

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    I just thought I should let everyone know that I've become a Raelian (praise Elohim) and can no longer be a member of the atheist club... It has been fun though and I hope someday that you will all advance your emotional intelligence as I have...

    Peace <3
    Last edited by Neferka; 1st April 2012 at 1:01 PM.


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    Not buying it. A ufo religion with gods name in hebrew. Sorry neferka April fools? Btw that brainwashed way of saying it doesn't make it more believeable.
    Last edited by 7 tyranitars; 1st April 2012 at 3:26 PM.
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    And I have become an Equestrian(Celestia is God!)

    :P
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    I, too, am denouncing from my Atheism. You see, the other day, I was eating a banana, when suddenly everything began to fall into place. The banana gave me a vision and I realized that God really does exist. Please excuse the timing of my renouncement. This is in fact, no laughing matter, nor an April Fools joke. Because obviously God created April Fools Day to bring joy to all the people of the world. Which is therefore even more evidence to support his existence. See how easy it is for all of you to be refuted? That is why I'm going to go join the Christian alliance, because everything about their belief system makes perfect and logical sense. Goodbye and good luck in your future endeavors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Not buying it. A ufo religion with gods name in hebrew. Sorry neferka April fools? Btw that brainwashed way of saying it doesn't make it more believeable.
    Lol XD Failed early I see... Although to be fair I don't think they worship the Elohim as gods per se (they are atheistic as far as I know 0_o). They do however try to interpret events from the Abrahamic faiths with an extraterrestrial slant, which is why I think they used that Hebrew word and their symbol is a modified star of David.

    By the way, I got the 'emotional intelligence' line from a blurb about a seminar that was held in my home town last month XD

    These people are rael... I mean real... They actually believe that aliens created the human race. It's a scary thought, no?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Neferka View Post
    Lol XD Failed early I see... Although to be fair I don't think they worship the Elohim as gods per se (they are atheistic as far as I know 0_o). They do however try to interpret events from the Abrahamic faiths with an extraterrestrial slant, which is why I think they used that Hebrew word and their symbol is a modified star of David.

    By the way, I got the 'emotional intelligence' line from a blurb about a seminar that was held in my home town last month XD

    These people are rael... I mean real... They actually believe that aliens created the human race. It's a scary thought, no?
    Yes I googled them because it sounded very dubious that you suddenly became religious. Saw they where athiestic but I though you used a god of another religion. :P
    Last edited by 7 tyranitars; 1st April 2012 at 7:39 PM.
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  15. #2740
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnovaMaster View Post
    I, too, am denouncing from my Atheism. You see, the other day, I was eating a banana, when suddenly everything began to fall into place. The banana gave me a vision and I realized that God really does exist. Please excuse the timing of my renouncement. This is in fact, no laughing matter, nor an April Fools joke. Because obviously God created April Fools Day to bring joy to all the people of the world. Which is therefore even more evidence to support his existence. See how easy it is for all of you to be refuted? That is why I'm going to go join the Christian alliance, because everything about their belief system makes perfect and logical sense. Goodbye and good luck in your future endeavors.
    April fools to you too
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  17. #2742
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    April fools is such a scary day. Cant trust anyone at all.

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    We have a new club people everyone should post there .


    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthr...gnostic-Family
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    Ah, missed it. My apologies.

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    Hey, I recently came across a couple of youtuber Atheists. From what I can tell they haven't exactly taken off yet. Only a few subscribers and few video links. personally, I think they make fairly well made arguements. Heres a link

    http://www.youtube.com/user/LogicinVita
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    We have a new club people everyone should post there .


    http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthr...gnostic-Family
    @Akuzan =P
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    Mehhhh fine.
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    Closed because, hello there is a new club thread!. Go rejoin if you desire. =]

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