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Thread: Is Red really the strongest 'Dex Holder?

  1. #51
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    Either Him or Emerald
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  2. #52
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    Why is everyone talking about this like battling is the only aspect of Pokemon there is? Maybe in the games (but then again, not all games like Pokemon Rangers) but the franchise offered more to Pokemon like contests, breeding, trading, collecting, etc. So it seems that being a battler is only one of the many professions there is to Pokemon. For example, in real life you wouldn't say being the best doctor wouldn't mean you're the best person would you? Being the strongest battler doesn't mean being the strongest Dexholder. But to answer the question, I believe that Red is the strongest battler but he lost to Emerald because Emerald is the FRONTIER MASTER. Someone else already said this but I don't think Emerald would beat Red if it was an open battle (frontier rules are restrictive).

    In my opinion, all the dexholders are strong in their own way. Red may be the best at battling, Blue (boy) is the best at training, Ruby is the best at Pokemon contests, etc. But none of those characteristics define them as the strongest Dexholder. Red does look like the leader but he was never stated to be the strongest out of the ten (or thirteen now).

  3. #53
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    I'm always under the impression that Ruby is the strongest Dex Holder. He seems to be one of those characters with the potential, hidden under his usual personality, to be the best one out of the others. Say, if Red and Ruby ever had a battle and both of them had a reason to fight it out pass their own limits, I'd say Ruby would defeat Red in a epic battle of all time.

  4. #54
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    I just think Red has one of the best (if not the best) "battling instincts," but that doesn't really mean he's the strongest. There's more than one way to win a battle, but he is one of the better battling trainers out of the dex holders. I think if there were several other tournaments, a handful of the dex holders could consistently pull out victories on any given day, Red included.

    Quote Originally Posted by NapkinSpe View Post
    I'm always under the impression that Ruby is the strongest Dex Holder. He seems to be one of those characters with the potential, hidden under his usual personality, to be the best one out of the others. Say, if Red and Ruby ever had a battle and both of them had a reason to fight it out pass their own limits, I'd say Ruby would defeat Red in a epic battle of all time.
    Yeah, I kinda feel like Ruby has a huge potential and feel for battling (I think his instinct for battling is up there too), but I think he would actually have to prepare his pokes for battling seriously unless he trains them to battle and do contests at the same time.

  5. #55
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    Gold defeated Red, so...no?

    To my knowledge, Red was in fine condition in that battle. Once he was defeated, he was no longer the strongest, right?

  6. #56
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    When did Gold beat Red? I never heard that in PokeSpecial. While any of the Dexholders can battle Red, the most common names I see that stand a chance of beating him now or in the future are Green, Emerald, Ruby, Sapphire, Platinum, and Black. Green's his main rival, Ruby's Pokemon are very strong when they do battle, Sapphire and Platinum do gyms so they are use to battles plus Sapphire's instincts, and Platinum's smarts might provide a challenge, Black is a modern day Red almost and is shaping up to be one of the strongest future dexholders, and Emerald and his frontier thing implies he has beaten Red before. This is just the most common stuff I've heard but I think anyone could give Red a good fight if the fight is right. Including Gold, Silver, Blue, and Pearl. Not so much Yellow, Crystal, and Dia.
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  7. #57
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    Red's my favorite character, but no I don't think he's the "strongest" Dex Holder. I don't think there is a strongest Dex Holder. All of them have their own strengths and weaknesses in battle, and some are obviously stronger than others (Crystal for example could never hope to beat Red), but I definitely think there's a few of them who could give Red a run for his money. Just to randomly list them:

    -Blue, of course.
    -Ruby. He was pretty eager to take part in the Battle Dome tournament, so I don't think his whole "battles are barbaric! I refuse to battle!" shtick really stands anymore. Plus, he was trained from an extremely young age by his dad, Norman, and we all know how much of a bad*** he is when it comes to battling. Ruby is without a doubt one of the stronger dex holders.
    -I'm kinda hesistant to say Sapphire. Poor girl, battling was supposed to be her expertise in R/S, yet Ruby still completely outshone her when it came down to it. She was shown to lose pretty easily to Tucker as well. She did beat Norman though, albeit barely and because he wasn't in top form. So, it's tough to say.
    -Emerald was implied to have won the dex holder tournament, so he very well could have beaten Red in the finals. Here's a bit of trivia that I don't think many people realize: with the way the tournament bracket was set up, a Red vs. Blue finals match would've been impossible. They were both on the same side of the tournament bracket, so the furthest (and only) way they could've fought each other would've been in the semifinal, and since Emerald was on the opposite side, neither of them could've knocked him out earlier in the tournament, either. Looking at the tournament bracket, I doubt Emerald would have lost before the final match. His possible opponents were Yellow, Gold, Silver, and Sapphire; of whom only one of which (Sapphire) was ever shown to have real impressive talent in battle. And since he was implied to have won the tournament apparently I'm right. He probably faced Red or one of Blue/Ruby (they were a first round match) in the final round and ended up victorious.
    -Platinum won all eight badges in roughly half the time Sapphire took, and beat all five of the Sinnoh Battle Frontier facilities. She's obviously got impressive battle skills.
    -Pearl has the ability to tell which attack a Pokemon is about to use just by observing their movements, a skill I'm sure would be very handy in a battle against Red.
    -Diamond. Yes, Diamond. When the boys first met up with Paka & Uji, the bodyguard duo expressed their interest in training Diamond and Pearl and teaching them all of the battle skills they know. If in theory that happened following Platinum's conclusion, then I'm very sure Diamond would've learned some pretty impressive tricks. Plus, keep in mind that Diamond and Pearl (mostly Pearl) are the ones who tought Platinum all of her battle skills as well.
    -Black is pretty much written to be Red 2.0, so he possibly could take him on some day as well.

  8. #58
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    The reason Sapphire lost to Tucker is because she still has a fear for Salamance. She said it herself. Ruby also has still a fear for Salamence so I am sure even Ruby would have trouble battling Tucker. Childhood traumas can give such effects to people. Blue's battle with prof Oak in the RGB arc is a great example for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamingflower View Post
    The reason Sapphire lost to Tucker is because she still has a fear for Salamance. She said it herself. Ruby also has still a fear for Salamence so I am sure even Ruby would have trouble battling Tucker. Childhood traumas can give such effects to people. Blue's battle with prof Oak in the RGB arc is a great example for that.
    I didn't think about that, but I suppose you're right. I can't imagine how that could possibly reflect good on her, though. If anything it just reflects worse, because she couldn't concentrate and give it her all.

    I don't buy Ruby having a fear of Salamence, though. Even if the manga itself said it at one point, it doesn't make sense. The ordeal didn't traumatize him at all, and since he beat the living crap out of that stupid dragon I can't imagine any reason he would possibly fear the species.

  10. #60
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    I honestly believe he is the strongest. Red has trained for who knows how long, and just because he lost in the tourney doesn't mean he isn't the strongest. I mean, the guy had been in suspended animation for... (someone help me out here, how long did E happen after FRLG?) and probably wasn't in the best shape. And the fact that he lost to Deoxys doesn't count either, as everyone here would lose to a Deoxys. So I do believe he's the strongest, yes.
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  11. #61
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    Red is clearly the strongest Dex holder. And for those that mention the battle against Bruno (The 1st time), that was Lorelei that mainly defeated him. Even Gold, who manages to finally defeat The Masked Man, asked him for training to beat Silver, who, to be fair, is a carbon copy of Green (Girl), despite the fact that they were joined together since the very beginning.

    Blue is also rather good competition - To be honest, I'd be looking forward to an epic battle between the main protagonists (Red, Gold, Ruby, Pearl & Black) against all of their rivals (Blue, Silver, Sapphire, Diamond and White).

    I also think it would be good for all of the female counterparts to have an epic battle, or something along those lines.

    But yea - Red all the way. ;D
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokemonOwn View Post
    Red is clearly the strongest Dex holder.
    Not clearly. Why don't you explain why he is "clearly" the strongest, instead of just simply stating it.

    Oh and by the way, Diamond is the male protagonist (Lucas' conterpart) and Pearl is the rival (Barry's counterpart).

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weedy Spyze View Post
    Not clearly. Why don't you explain why he is "clearly" the strongest, instead of just simply stating it.

    Oh and by the way, Diamond is the male protagonist (Lucas' conterpart) and Pearl is the rival (Barry's counterpart).
    Sorry, I forget the nature of the Sinnoh Manga. :/

    The reason for this is because he WAS the original Dex Holder. His title is "The Battler" and even Prof. Oak entrusted him with a Pokedex rather quickly, as compared to other Dex holders such as Yellow and Gold. Red, as MrMineEpik has stated has been training for the longest of the bunch (Barring Blue, who was trained since he was about five by Chuck). He has been the Pokedex holder that has had their Pokemon the longest (By his short backstory, it looks like he had Poliwag at about the age of three).
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokemonOwn View Post
    Sorry, I forget the nature of the Sinnoh Manga. :/

    The reason for this is because he WAS the original Dex Holder. His title is "The Battler" and even Prof. Oak entrusted him with a Pokedex rather quickly, as compared to other Dex holders such as Yellow and Gold. Red, as MrMineEpik has stated has been training for the longest of the bunch (Barring Blue, who was trained since he was about five by Chuck). He has been the Pokedex holder that has had their Pokemon the longest (By his short backstory, it looks like he had Poliwag at about the age of three).
    Blue (Oak's grandson) was the original Dexholder, not Red. I've already established that Oak is a tad senile when it comes to entrusting his Pokedexes, since he seems to contradict himself rather frequently on what he thinks a Pokedex holder "should be" I guess. I'll elaborate more if you need me to. Ruby was also trained at or before the age of five, by his father Norman, and has also exhibited many battle skills that are in my opinion, more impressive than stuff Red has shown. We don't know what age Red was when he got Poliwag, and every single dexholder sans Yellow, Sapphire, Emerald, Platinum, and White are all known to have Pokemon from a young age. Silver for example, has had his Sneasel ever since he was two. Gold grew up in a house full of Pokemon, and has been around them since birth. Black had his Munna and Rufflet at the age of five, nine years before he started on his journey around Unova.

    For the record, Red is actually my favorite character, which is why a picture of him is my avatar. I just don't think there's any real evidence that he's the "strongest" Dexholder, nor do I think he needs to be. I don't think there needs to be a definite strongest at all. Red is obviously stronger than a few of the other Dexholders, but there are also others who I think could be his match. If you want me to elaborate, I've already done so here: http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthr...8#post14855078.

  15. #65
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    Emerald got the Tactics Symbol at the end of the Emerald Arc.

    Nuff said.
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  16. #66
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    i dunno, i always thought that Emerald won cause it is the "Emerald arc" and cuz its his "arc" they had to make him win or something...
    but thats just me -_-;

  17. #67
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    I think he is the strongest I mean he has level 80 Pokemon!|:| He is tough to beat in the game to!


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    Quote Originally Posted by TeamGalacticMars View Post
    I think he is the strongest I mean he has level 80 Pokemon!|:| He is tough to beat in the game to!
    1. So what. A level 1 Rattata could beat a level 80 Pokemon.

    2. This. Is. Not. The. Games. Stop applying game logic to this series. It doesn't work that way. Those Red's aren't even the same one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    1. So what. A level 1 Rattata could beat a level 80 Pokemon.
    how does that work? O_O

  20. #70
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    Teach it Endeavor and Quick attack and attach a Focus Sash :3

    Endeavor brings the other Pokemon down to 1 HP, and Quick Attack faints it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digletto View Post
    Teach it Endeavor and Quick attack and attach a Focus Sash :3

    Endeavor brings the other Pokemon down to 1 HP, and Quick Attack faints it.
    ...wow.
    never thought of that..... O_O

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by the cricket View Post
    ...wow.
    never thought of that..... O_O
    It's old xD a game site thought of it way back in 2007.

  23. #73
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    Red, as the main protagonist, is the strongest. But, given his situation, (I know that others have said why), he wasn't able to win. In all truths, if you were to gather all of the Dex holders in one tournament, at a good time, Red has a good chance of winning. But being more realistic, there are also the chances that Red could make a minor slip up and lose. Its in the odds, and Red has a great chance of winning. But there is still that "1%" chance of a loss you need to account for. No one's perfect.

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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klizcool View Post
    Red, as the main protagonist, is the strongest. But, given his situation, (I know that others have said why), he wasn't able to win. In all truths, if you were to gather all of the Dex holders in one tournament, at a good time, Red has a good chance of winning. But being more realistic, there are also the chances that Red could make a minor slip up and lose. Its in the odds, and Red has a great chance of winning. But there is still that "1%" chance of a loss you need to account for. No one's perfect.
    That argument doesn't work because there is no "main protagonist". It switches every chapter based on a game.

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    I don't know why,

    when discussing the league match of dex holders, Green and Blue always be forgotten. lol

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