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Thread: Is Red really the strongest 'Dex Holder?

  1. #76
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    I personally think X would give Red a run for his money. After all, X's past is somewhat similar to Red's in that they're both known specifically for their awesome pokemon battling, and that they both won champion tournaments, one normal, and the other junior. It's hard to dispute between Red and Emerald however because they prefer different battling styles. I can confidently say that Red is the best battler out of gen 1 and 2 though. He was even given a title for it. Another person to consider is Black. His battling ability is most likely at Red's level, and with his Musharna, he could definitely beat Red, but ofc that would never happen because he doesn't see it as ethical.
    ---Speculation from here on out---
    Ruby would probably have been an equal or better to Red, similar to X, if they hadn't given up on their talents and dreams and gotten rusty. Red knew what he wanted to do and kept doing it from the beginning
    That's it from me

    What about Y?
    Last edited by lolipiece; 2nd October 2017 at 4:34 PM.

  2. #77
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    I'd argue that the strongest of the Gen 1-3 Dex Holder is Emerald due to him winning the Battle Dome Tournament of the early Dex Holders which Red and all the others lost at some point.

    Red, for a best Battler, didn't bother to ever get the Earth Badge from Blue, which is one less quantifiable feat than Sapphire. Speaking of the latter 2, Blue and Sapphire lost to Lysandre and Tucker, two opponents WAYYYYY below their skill level, respectively, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal and Ruby don't have enough quantifiable battle feats. (Wild Pokémon Catches and Glorified Pageants don't qualify as strength or skill IMO)

    As for the IV-VI gen, I'd have to say that it's Platinum, due to her conquering the Gyms faster than Sapphire, and winning all of the Fight Area Battle Frontier facilities minus(but implied to be investing in the future challenge of) the Battle Tower.

    Diamond, Pearl, and Y never did anything quantifiable, Black has been uploaded to the closest Pokémon equivalent to the internet due to preventable amateur, Youngster-level clumsiness(had he stayed in Detective Time, he'd have avoided Beheyeem)which ruined his character progression, White only did the Battle Subway which she has no certification from and/or proof of winning, Blake's Pokémon all have the same neutral nature which means that they are weak by default, Whitley has only one Pokémon and refuses to get more because she believes in PokéPETA's brainwashing(She needs therapy and Cinnabar Volcano Burgers...like, now), and X had only one Gym Battle with him not even getting a da*n badge for it.

    The Verdict's still out on Sun and Moon.
    Here's hoping for Shiny Tapu Bulu, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Fini events that come stateside. Also, why can't there be more rare Vivillon pattern events?!

  3. #78

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    Red and Green are the strongest overall because they have no lives outside battling and training. Yellow has the most potential power output thanks to Viridian magic. Ruby has the most natural talent and battle sense, but he's hampered by his issues and the fact that he doesn't train regularly. Emerald's the best at gimmick battles that have extra rules and whatnot.

    Eh, and battles and badges aren't the only way to measure worth, and natures don't mean much outside the games. (And Crystal's catching skills aren't...skills? Bruh. And Sapphire lost due to a bad match up, Blue lost to a Legendary) Green and White certainly aren't the strongest, but they are completely self-made, with Green selling her patents and White coming up with a battle facility that boosts the economy to boot. And while Platinum's feats are indeed impressive, it's worth noting that she got a lot of initial help in both training and traveling, while Sapphire did everything herself while taking the long way around.
    Where'd I put my mallet?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genius Mode View Post
    I personally think X would give Red a run for his money. After all, X's past is somewhat similar to Red's in that they're both known specifically for their awesome pokemon battling, and that they both won champion tournaments, one normal, and the other junior.
    "Champion tournament?" Are you referring to the Pokemon League? Because no, X did not compete in the Pokemon League. He challenged a generic tournament for small children. Those things are too different to compare properly.

    If he hadn't given up training for five years, I could see it. But there's still the massive age gap between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamzee Makara View Post
    Red, for a best Battler, didn't bother to ever get the Earth Badge from Blue, which is one less quantifiable feat than Sapphire.
    ...And? Red still won against Giovanni, the Gym Leader at the time. And not like it matters since getting the Badge wasn't required to beat the League at the time. Titles are not an indicator of strength.

    Speaking of the latter 2, Blue and Sapphire lost to Lysandre and Tucker, two opponents WAYYYYY below their skill level, respectively, Yellow, Gold, Silver, Crystal and Ruby don't have enough quantifiable battle feats. (Wild Pokémon Catches and Glorified Pageants don't qualify as strength or skill IMO)
    Excuse me? Where is your source for that "skill level" claim? Lysandre was shown to be a very powerful battle since X lost to him without defeating a single one of his Pokemon. And the Frontier Brains are explicitly powerful Trainers. That's why they have the job in the first place.

    And I fail to see how catching Pokemon isn't a skill. May I remind you she learned that ability as a small child. When her arms were broken? And Contests aren't skillful either? Contests aren't easy either.

    As for the IV-VI gen, I'd have to say that it's Platinum, due to her conquering the Gyms faster than Sapphire, and winning all of the Fight Area Battle Frontier facilities minus(but implied to be investing in the future challenge of) the Battle Tower.
    Platinum's journey was completely different from Sapphire's. It's not fair to say someone is better when the things they did were radically different. And second, who cares who was faster? Sapphire wasn't even trying to set a record.

    Diamond, Pearl, and Y never did anything quantifiable,
    Diamond and Pearl aren't battlers. Why even mention them? And Y is still in school to learn Sky battling.

    Black has been uploaded to the closest Pokémon equivalent to the internet due to preventable amateur, Youngster-level clumsiness(had he stayed in Detective Time, he'd have avoided Beheyeem)which ruined his character progression
    ...Source, please? You clearly do not understand how Detective Time works.

    White only did the Battle Subway which she has no certification from and/or proof of winning
    That's not really fair considering she was a novice at that point. She at least got good enough to tie with them.

    Blake's Pokémon all have the same neutral nature which means that they are weak by default
    ...??? You're starting to confuse me.

    Natures don't mean everything.

    Whitley has only one Pokémon and refuses to get more because she believes in PokéPETA's brainwashing
    Again, not a battler.

    (She needs therapy and Cinnabar Volcano Burgers...like, now)
    What?

    and X had only one Gym Battle with him not even getting a da*n badge for it.
    It wasn't even an official battle.

  5. #80
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    Well, if we go by 'the more likely to win in your average pokemon battle' definition of strenght, then I'd say Red, since that's his thing after all. That doesn't mean he's going to win every battle he ever fights so it isn't weird if he lost to Emerald.

    Green is his rival and supposedly his equal so he's up there with him. Yellow migh have a powerful ability but she's unlikely to use it in a normal battle so I wouldn't put her with the strongest. Blue is good at coming up with strategies and having backup plans upon backup plans, but not particularly powerful outside of that.

    Neither of the Johto trio seems particularly good at battling, although Gold's ability to think outside the box and come up with crazy plans on the fly might come in handy. The Hoenn trio is the opposite, they're all pretty good. I'd say all of them could be a hard match even for Red.

    Platinum has a impressive track record, knows a lot and learns fast, so she probably would have a fair shot at Red too. Pearl and Dia have abilities that can be useful in battle, but I doubt they're at that level.

    Black is a champion and Lack-two is like a robot that hardly ever loses, so I'd say they're high tier. White and Whi-two come a little short by comparison. X was already very good as a kid and now he has super senses and it's practically imposible to catch him by surprise, so he'd be a tough challenge. Y is good at Sky Battles, but that's way too specific to be relevant. And neither Sun and Moon seems like a particularly strong battler, but it's too soon to tell.
    Last edited by Lucky3; 2nd October 2017 at 6:18 PM.

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