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Thread: Dream World Ability Discussion

  1. #26
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    kabutops can run x-scissor and pretty much eliminate that problem barring **** like tangrowth lul but even armaldo isnt OHKOing tanny

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseSymphony View Post
    I don't want to sound like a complete n00b by posting this, but has Shadow Tag always had the effect in bold?

    "The opponent cannot run nor switch. If this Pokemon switches, the opponent will remain trapped. The opponent may still switch by using Baton Pass."

    Found on Serebii. I don't remember Shadow Tag trapping them even when the trapper switches out. That just seems too unfair.
    It means that on the turn the Shadow Tag Pokemon switches out, the trapped Pokemon still can't. It can switch the next turn though.


    I really don't get this Hydration Vappy hype tbqh. :/

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viva la Vida
    Also, on the Blaziken Infernape issue; Blaziken's base speed is still not so good, so it'll need a couple of turns to set up.
    Blaziken and Infernape both caused a fair amount of switches. After setting up on that switch, Blaziken outclasses Ape in offense and bulk. And 252 Spd Jolly Blaziken will outspeed all of OU (except maybe Ninjask and that new 145 Base speed thing, I'll have to check) after just one turn of Speed Boost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viva la Vida
    Additionally, Blaziken cannot learn Nasty Plot, one reason Inferape is so popular. Maybe the physical Apes will be outclassed, but Nasty Plot Mixape will assure that Blaziken cannot take it's place in OU.
    Blaze got Agility, which could make it faster than Ape. Heck, Blaze has slightly better bulk and much more offensive power, but that didn't put it in OU. NPApe may be able to keep a foot in OU, but Blaze will outclass Ape as a mixed wall breaker, its most popular set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viva la Vida
    Also, I'm pretty sure the only Grass move Blaziken has is Solarbeam, so unless you wanna run power herb, good luck dealing with Swampert and Hippowdon....
    HP Grass will take care of Swampert, and while it won't OHKO Hippowdon, he still won't like taking one.

    My analysis: Blaziken will take Infernape's place as a wall breaker/mixed sweeper. Ape has Grass Knot and Nasty Plot. Important, yes. But Blaziken will have more speed after just one turn, 16 more Base Atk, and 6 more Base SpA. Call it bias, but it's facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by otaku-dono
    I really don't get this Hydration Vappy hype tbqh. :/
    Amen.

    Also, we need to hope that certain TMs that were (stupidly) replaced will be egg moves or move tutor moves by the Pokemon that need them. Damp Swampert will make a nice lead, immune to Explosion and all, but it will still need Stealth Rock, which I think is now replaced. Blaziken is going to really want Swords Dance back. And if Poison Heal Gliscor can get Roost, then it will dominate in whatever might be left of stall when Gen 5 is done with it. If not, then Poison Heal really isn't going to compensate for lack of instant recovery.

    So we need to hope for move tutors for: Stealth Rock, Swords Dance, and Roost. Anyone think of any others?

  4. #29
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    Draco Meteor.

    So we can abuse some **** awesome dragon dominance in ou again.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep Freak View Post
    Luvdisc is probably the worst pokemon anyone would consider using.
    Tak3 that back!!

    Anyone else sad Milotic dint get rain dish or hydration?We already know shes gorgeous, so dont give her cute charm!! lol

    Tyranitar still pwns as OU weather maker(with 100&#37; chance of dirt!)

    EDIT - Seaking > All legends and OU pokemon...
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  6. #31
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    I'm too lazy to read the above posts, but to anyone doubting Swords Dance Speed Boost Blaziken (Please, please give him Swords Dance again)..

    +2 (or +1) High Jump Kick (130 BP now) vs..

    4/0 Gyarados: 78.2&#37; - 92.4%
    4/0 Dragonite: 92% - 108%
    252/252 Swampert: 113.2% - 133.4%
    252/252 Suicune: 92.8% - 109.4%
    252/120 Tentacruel: 94.5% - 111.3%
    252/4 Starmie: 86.4% - 101.7%
    252/252 lol Blissey: 290.2% - 341.5%

    Flare Blitz..

    252/252 Dusknoir: 106.1% - 124.8%
    4/0 Shadow Tag Ghost Candle: 110.4% - 130%
    252/252 Ghost Jellyfish: 58.8% - 69.5%


    Last move can be either Shadow Claw or Protect to utterly destroy Shadow Tag Candle or Jellyfish. Protect lets you beat nearly all Scarfers, even Timid Starmie if you can pull off three speed boosts. Protect also can stall for Toxic Spikes damage letting Ghost Jelly and candle slip closer to death.

    Not to mention Blaziken with Protect can just run HP EVs and rely on Protect to get well over 400 speed with minimal effort. Imagine your opponent's face when Dragonite's Extremespeed deals less than 50%.

  7. #32

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    I just updated a bunch of stuff on the OP. Gyarados and Salamence both get EQ Spiral if I am correct...which means they will be difficult to revenge kill without priority, especially if they have a DD set up in advance. They may also start running Scarf sets as well. Heracross and a few others got it as well though I don't think it will be as useful to them.

    ^I believe it has been confirmed that SD is indeed a TM again so expect to see it as the standard set for Blaziken.
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  8. #33
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    Tbh I'd be running Aiming Mark on SD Speed Boost Blaziken so people don't get smart with switching in a Ghost expecting you to nearly KO yourself. Either that or spam Blaze Kick (I don't think Flare Blitz suicide and Hi Jump Kick suicide is warranted is it?).

  9. #34
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    Vaporeon with Hydration, pretty awesome.

    Jolteon with Quick Feet, pretty stupid.

    That is all. XD
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  10. #35
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    I am going to run Wish/Protect Blissey as a Blaziken lure. It will be fun.

    Also, Groudon+Zekrom+Reshiram=GG Ubers.

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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellsprout View Post
    Also, Groudon+Zekrom+Reshiram=GG Ubers.
    Latias | Latios with Grass Knot | Dragon Pulse says gg,
    I have claimed Tangrowth.
    He's all mine now, hands off.

  12. #37

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    I completed the list of abilities on the OP. Here is a list of all the effects of the new abilities:

    Code:
    Wicked Theif - User steals item when hit by direct contact move
    Encourage - Attacks gain power but lose secondary effects
    Perversity - Stat changes are reversed
    Tension - Opponents cannot eat berries
    Competitive Spirit - When stats decrease, attack will increase
    Faint Hearted - When HP goes below half its stats decrease
    Cursed Body - When attacked opponent may become Disabled
    Healing Heart - May occasionally heal teammates status problems
    Friend Card - It can lower damage to a teammate
    Breakable Armor - When hit with physical attacks the user loses attack but gains speed
    Heavy Metal - Pokemons weight is doubled
    Light Metal - Pokemons weight is halved
    Multi-Scales - When pokemon is at full HP incoming attacks do less
    Poison Rampage - Increases physical power when poisoned
    Heat Rampage - Increases special power when burned
    Harvest - The same berry can be used an infinate number of times within battle
    Telepathy - Unaffected by allies attacks
    Inconsistent - Stats go up and down randomly
    Dustproof - Takes no damage from weather effects
    Poison Hand - Direct contact moves may poison attacker (same as Poison Point)
    Regeneration - HP restores upon switching out (by 1/3 I think)
    Pigeon Heart - Defense cannot be lowered
    Sand Throw - Speed increases in Sandstorm
    Miracle Skin - Immune to stat lowering moves (Clear Body and White Smoke...)
    Analyse - Attacks are stronger when going last
    Illusion - User transforms into pokemon behind it when sent out
    Eccentric - Automatically transform into opponent (Ditto's new signature ability)
    Slip Through - Attacks ignore Reflect and Light Screen
    Mummy - If hit by a direct contact move attackers ability becomes Mummy
    Overconfidence - Attack rises when you faint an opponent
    Heart of Justice - Attack rises when hit with Dark type attacks. No damage is taken
    Self-Conscious - Certain type opponents increase users speed (possibly foes which have super effective types)
    Magic Mirror - Reflects stat changing moves at opponents
    Herbivore - Attack rises when hit by Grass attack
    Mischievous Heart - Non attacking moves have priority
    Sand Strength - Ground, Steel, and Rock attacks increase power in Sandstorm
    Steel Thorns - Direct contact moves deal damage back (Rough Skin)
    Daruma Mode - Form changes when you fall below 50&#37; HP
    Victory Star - Increases accuracy of yourself and teammate
    Turbo Blaze - Can attack opponent regardless of ability
    Terra Voltage - Can attack opponent regardless of ability
    Perversity will be interesting on Jaroda (Grass starter) since it has Leaf Storm and its Sp.Atk will increase instead of decrease when it uses it. Competitive Spirit could be good on things like Primape if Close Combat activates it. Harvest would be great if something like Sceptile got it. Infinate Sitrus Berries would mean endless Subseeding. Exeggutor can try to SubSeed (if Sub is still a TM) but it wouldn't be as effective without speed. Ditto getting what is essentially an auto-Transform makes its life easier and it might actually get some use (even if it is still a gimmick.)

    Edit: Sub still is a TM. Now that I think about it Harvest has several other uses such as infinate Lum for complete status immunity as well as full recovery using Rest without drawbacks. You can also use resist berries to eliminate a weakness.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simse View Post
    Latias | Latios with Grass Knot | Dragon Pulse says gg,
    Ignoring for a moment that Lati@s won't enjoy switching into any of them and that either Zekrom or Reshiram will likely be Scarfed, has the Soul Dew even been confirmed to be obtainable in Gen 5? Remember that you can't trade over items from the 4th Gen.

    I don't think Jaroda has any Special moves besides the Grass attacks and Hidden Power. Leaf Storm only has 8 pp, making it quite easy to stall out, especially with Moltres or something.
    And it appears only Tropius and Exeggutor get Harvest.

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  14. #39
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    Blaziken and Infernape both caused a fair amount of switches. After setting up on that switch, Blaziken outclasses Ape in offense and bulk. And 252 Spd Jolly Blaziken will outspeed all of OU (except maybe Ninjask and that new 145 Base speed thing, I'll have to check) after just one turn of Speed Boost.
    Look each have their ups and downs. Infernape has a better move pool than Blaziken barring a couple of moves (Brave Bird, Blaze Kick) but Blaziken has more bulk. Additionally, after that speed boost, it will outspeed everything in OU, you're right.

    Blaze got Agility, which could make it faster than Ape. Heck, Blaze has slightly better bulk and much more offensive power, but that didn't put it in OU. NPApe may be able to keep a foot in OU, but Blaze will outclass Ape as a mixed wall breaker, its most popular set.
    Who would run Agility on a speed based Blaziken if after one boost your basically faster than anything anyway. And NP Ape is still a force to reckonned with. I'm pretty sure even if Blaziken's got the speed, NP Ape will still remain one of the best special sweepers in the game.

    HP Grass will take care of Swampert, and while it won't OHKO Hippowdon, he still won't like taking one.

    My analysis: Blaziken will take Infernape's place as a wall breaker/mixed sweeper. Ape has Grass Knot and Nasty Plot. Important, yes. But Blaziken will have more speed after just one turn, 16 more Base Atk, and 6 more Base SpA. Call it bias, but it's facts.
    I would agree with that. My point was that Ape's not going to drop dead just because of Blaziken's return. Hell, I love the starters of Generation 3 to death and would love to survive next generation in OU slots (Though Sceptile's dwindling). But I do also love Infernape. And just an FYI, HP Grass is **** compared to an NP Grass Knot, which hurt anything that's relatively heavy that doesn't resist it. Now that that's out of the way, I will say that Blaziken is a cool pokemon and I'll welcome it back to the metagame with open arms. But I still love Ape too. And besides, those damage calcs above already tell that Blaziken could be quite broken.

    Just remember that DampPert can't have Stealth Rock.
    But just the fact you cannot explode on it makes it a helluva lot more powerful. Also, couldn't you just do a breeding chain to get stealth Rock onto it?

    Perversity will be interesting on Jaroda (Grass starter) since it has Leaf Storm and its Sp.Atk will increase instead of decrease when it uses it.
    It could be cool but that means it can't use stuff live Agility. It could be interesting in double Battles tough.

    Also, Unburden Sceptile is interesting.

    That is all.

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  15. #40
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    I'm sure the items will all be in the new game. Not trading items over is likely to prevent mass TM hording, since they are supposed to be more valuable in B/W (reusable).

    Ditto is going to be OU this generation. Holy s***. His new ability Eccentric lets him instantly Transform just by switching in. Now give him Choice Scarf and max HP and..

    BAM. You have the best revenge killer in all of Pokemon. HP EVs gives him about as much HP as a 4 EV base 77 Poke. It has as much speed as the opponent + a Choice Scarf. Not terrible, especially compared to many of the sweepers like that dreaded Ononono-Dragon with 147 base attack. In fact, f*** HIM. Let his f***** Dragon *** get to +6 Dragon Dances. Just let it kill something and bring Scarf Ditto in for a revenge kill. Now you've got a +6/+6 Scarfed Onono with 7 more base HP.

    Oh, what about Infernape? Lucario? Tyranitar? Gyarados? Ghost Candle? Heatran? Electivire / Motor Drive / Lightningrod / Volt Absorb? Salamence? Garchomp? Kingdra? Magnezone? Dugtrio? Gengar? The list goes on and on.

    Not to mention it can copy things like Forretress and Skarmory, stealing their entry hazards should your minelayer be dead. As I said before it can also revenge kill practically anything that boosts itself and not just kill it, but also turn the revenge kill into a sweep.

    Awesome.

  16. #41
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    Soul Dew will probably be in the coding, but will it be obtainable without an event?

    Ditto could be promising, but only as a revenge killer. It still has poor HP and if it switches in on a set-upper it will be behind one turn. It also has to watch out for all the Shadow Taggers running around now.

    And does anybody know if there is a Draco Meteor tutor or not? People over at Smogon and GameFAQs appear to have confirmed it, but Serebii hasn't.

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  17. #42
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    There is a Draco Meteor tutor. There is also a tutor for Fire / Grass / Water Oath and the elemental Hyper Beams.

    Ditto still base base 77~ HP if you max it which gives it more durability than most sweepers. Its also not a counter its a revenge killer. Who cares if their Salamence got to +1? Let it kill something then bring on the pain with your 200&#37; Attack / 225% Speed Salamence as they are locked into Outrage. You can also switch in on most Swords Dances and Nasty Plots.

    Mmm.. I have no idea about Soul Dew.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by jellsprout View Post
    Ignoring for a moment that Lati@s won't enjoy switching into any of them
    Latios | Latias can come in on Fire, Electric and Waters attack, and sweep. And no, it won't be coming in on Dragon or Ice attacks.

    and that either Zekrom or Reshiram will likely be Scarfed,
    And how exactly do you know this? You have statistics?

    has the Soul Dew even been confirmed to be obtainable in Gen 5? Remember that you can't trade over items from the 4th Gen.
    No, it has not. I didn't even mention Soul Dew. And there will probably a method to obtaining it in Isshu, I doubt they're going to completely remove an item as important as Soul Dew.
    I have claimed Tangrowth.
    He's all mine now, hands off.

  19. #44
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    Zekrom / Reshiram won't be scarfed. I believe they will be mixed since they can use their STABs to utterly devastate everything. SR weakness and type weaknesses to common uber types means they can't switch in too easy forcing them to do as much damage as possible. They totally destroy most stall teams too.

  20. #45
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    Blaziken will soon reclaim his throne as he once had in the third gen. I'm not sure if Drought will do anything for Ninetales considering that she doesn't have any moves besides fire that is powered up by the sunlight. Overconfidence spells uber once again for Salamence. With lightning rod, Seaking will finally stay true to his meme title. Charizard deserves something better than Solar Power since it takes away its HP. The fact that Stealth Rock still exist doesn't help much either.

  21. #46
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    @ Dattebayo, ninetales has solarbeam, unless its not a tm anymore

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11tjcoulombe View Post
    @ Dattebayo, ninetales has solarbeam, unless its not a tm anymore
    Then Ninetales is officially awesome, but we shall see if she still has it depending on whether or not Solarbeam is still a TM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomspot555 View Post
    Blaziken steps out of Infernape's shadow with Speed Boost.
    Goodbye Infernape, Hello Yanmega!

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viva la Vida View Post
    My point was that Ape's not going to drop dead just because of Blaziken's return. Hell, I love the starters of Generation 3 to death and would love to survive next generation in OU slots (Though Sceptile's dwindling).
    OK. Then we're seeing eye to eye here. I was kinda messin around with ya, but yeah I've grown fond of ol' Ape too. I don't want to see him drop to BL or UU, but Nasty Plot sweeping may have to be his new niche. Other than that, he can make a more immediate revenge killer than Blaze, at least for that first turn.

    I love em both, but I just want to see Blaze shine again.

    Oh, and thanks for that new list d0nut. Perversity, Encourage, and Regeneration all look interesting. And I'm assuming that Fainted Heart is the same as what we formerly knew as Weak Kneed (or somethin like that).

  25. #50
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    Hihi might blast up to OU real quick. Unlimited Flare Blitz. Plus with a few Swords Dances from Ninjask, Hihi would be unstoppable. All the Shadow Tag Pokemon might go up there with Wobbuffet.

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