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Thread: Should Deoxys-S Really Be Uber?

  1. #1
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    Default Should Deoxys-S Really Be Uber?

    I admit first of all, there are certain qualaties that make it Uber, like it's speed. But in OU Choice Scarves are not uncommon. And a TrickScarf to Deoxys-S would destroy it.

    Deoxys-S also cannot survive in Ubers. Compared to Ubers, his stats are very small for the most part, causing him to be very frail in Ubers, and indeed, in Ubers he makes an ineffective lead, usually only getting only about 2 spikes layers, which can be ineffective in Ubers due to the presence of Rayquaza, Salamence, Giratina-O, Latios, Latias, and a few others that just completely avoid them.

    I believe, and agree with the opinion Volteon made a while ago, simply bringing his idea back to us, that an all offensive Deoxys-S would certainly be OU, thanks to his sad stats for the most part. And it wouldn't be the first time we had a Pokemon with a variable Tier like that, Latias was in OU so long as it didn't have Soul Dew, which then it would be considered Uber.

    And past that, it is incredibly fast, but Blissey can just last for hours and hours with it's HP stat and it's Special Defense. In fact, such a powerful wall in OU, but a simple, speedy pokemon with sad stats for the most part is Uber?

    I know he was OU at some point, but when he began being used for support, he was Uber. But with Bronzong's ability to easily set up Screens, and overall nice survivability, he too is game breaking in OU. But the problem is, even with those screens, Deoxys-S still can't survive up to some of the pokemon in Ubers.

    Deoxys-S is also fairly predictable. There isn't much it can do in Ubers except set up screens or lead. Palkia, Dialga, Giratina, Rayquaza, and even Heatran, who IS OU, can OHKO it, thanks to it's sad defense and HP.

    In fact, it's base stats are; HP:50 Atk: 95 Def: 90 Sp. Atk: 95: Sp: Def: 90 Speed: 180, and 5/6 of those don't reach 100, which like Shaymin, Celebi, Jirachi and maybe more, beat it at. It's moves aren't powerful enough to wipe out whole teams like most Ubers, and a Scizor Bullet Punch, and alot of other priority moves would easily bring it down. Not to mention alot of strong OU pokemon can surive an attack and easily hit back and OHKO.

    Discuss Deoxys: S and other pokemon you think were wrongully shopped to Ubers, or even put out into OU or NU, or UU or anything really. Post about pokemon you think should be sent to another tier. Just keep on the topic of Tiers. Please, please, please refrain from talking about Garchomp, he definitly is Uber because he just destroyed all of OU.

  2. #2
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    Actually this would be more suited to the Competitive Discussion section as that's what the topic fits under so going to move it there.

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  3. #3

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    Deoxys-S really should stay out of OU. Even if it doesn't have much use in Ubers (which it does, it's the most popular lead last I checked), that doesn't really mean that it's fair in OU. It would be broken as a lead similarly to Froslass in UU. Also, Deoxys-S is so fast that it can outspeed most common Choice Scarfers without any kind of boost prior. It would be an extremely broken revenge killer, and Base 95 attacking stats are solid enough to kill of most weakened foes, especially when taking into acout D-S's solid movepool.

    As far as other unfair changes, I'll have to get back to you on that. I kinda think that at least Wynaut could be let in OU, as it is really only going to take out 1 Pokemon before getting killed, and it's not even guaranteed to do that. After all, most players are going to have to risk at least one Pokemon when things like SubPSGengar and Breeloom come in anyways.

  4. #4

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    Deoxys-S is easily one of the most broken pokemon that was ever allowed in OU during the 4th gen. It is predictable, but that doesn't exactly stop it from setting up against pretty much any common lead. Yes its defenses suck by Uber standards, though it can easily survive attacks that come off of common OUs, especially since it can set up an appropriate screen to soften the blow before an attack can be launched. You say that TrickScarf would wreck it though Deoxys hits 504 Speed, thus few pokemon can outspeed it to Trick it a Scarf. Jirachi would only hit 492 iirc, so Gengar, Azelf, and Starmie would be the only things which could Trick it without getting Taunted. You point out that Deoxys-S' stats are on the low side and that none but Speed pass 100, but look at Kingdra. Kingdra still manages to sweep and fit well on many teams yet it doesn't even have a single stat over 100. Deoxys also has a really large movepool which pairs well with its Speed, and it can revenge kill things such as Dragonite even if it has a DD. Personally I would rather see Garchomp OU again before this thing.
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  5. #5
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    Deoxys-S also cannot survive in Ubers.
    its one of the best leads in ubers...not that performance in ubers has an effect on its ban. aside from completely centralizing the lead metagame, it was an amazing late game sweeper as your only options were really scarf gengar and priority. d0nut really said it best though

  6. #6
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    Is this even a question? It is so broken, especially in the lead metagame, it has natural bulk and sets up SR on ANYTHING.

    And no one cares how well it does in Ubers, Uber status is determined by power in OU, not Ubers. This explains why the normal forme Deoxys is not OU, as even though it is completely outclassed by Deo-A, it would still rip anything in OU to shreds.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep Freak View Post
    Deoxys-S also cannot survive in Ubers. Compared to Ubers, his stats are very small for the most part, causing him to be very frail in Ubers, and indeed, in Ubers he makes an ineffective lead, usually only getting only about 2 spikes layers, which can be ineffective in Ubers due to the presence of Rayquaza, Salamence, Giratina-O, Latios, Latias, and a few others that just completely avoid them.
    Arguing that a Pokemon is bad in Ubers counts as zero proof that it can be OU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep Freak View Post
    I believe, and agree with the opinion Volteon made a while ago, simply bringing his idea back to us, that an all offensive Deoxys-S would certainly be OU, thanks to his sad stats for the most part. And it wouldn't be the first time we had a Pokemon with a variable Tier like that, Latias was in OU so long as it didn't have Soul Dew, which then it would be considered Uber.
    Arguing that a single aspect of a Pokemon is not Uber is not a good argument to unban a Pokemon. Kyogre isn't good as an offensive sweeper, but we all know that it is an Uber.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep Freak View Post
    And past that, it is incredibly fast, but Blissey can just last for hours and hours with it's HP stat and it's Special Defense. In fact, such a powerful wall in OU, but a simple, speedy pokemon with sad stats for the most part is Uber?
    Yes, because Blissey can easily fall to a simple Taunt or a physical hit. With Deoxys, it will be hard to get the Taunt in first, and when you KO it, it would have done its job in setting up Stealth Rocks, or a Reflect/Light Screen, or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep Freak View Post
    I know he was OU at some point, but when he began being used for support, he was Uber. But with Bronzong's ability to easily set up Screens, and overall nice survivability, he too is game breaking in OU. But the problem is, even with those screens, Deoxys-S still can't survive up to some of the pokemon in Ubers.
    Bronzong can take a hit and set up screens, but it isn't game breaking. If it was, everyone would use it, or it would be Ubers by now.
    Also, Bronzong can easily be stopped by a Taunt, which as I mentioned before, is too difficult to do on Deoxys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep Freak View Post
    Deoxys-S is also fairly predictable. There isn't much it can do in Ubers except set up screens or lead. Palkia, Dialga, Giratina, Rayquaza, and even Heatran, who IS OU, can OHKO it, thanks to it's sad defense and HP.
    You are, again, arguing that it is too weak for Ubers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweep Freak View Post
    In fact, it's base stats are; HP:50 Atk: 95 Def: 90 Sp. Atk: 95: Sp: Def: 90 Speed: 180, and 5/6 of those don't reach 100, which like Shaymin, Celebi, Jirachi and maybe more, beat it at. It's moves aren't powerful enough to wipe out whole teams like most Ubers, and a Scizor Bullet Punch, and alot of other priority moves would easily bring it down. Not to mention alot of strong OU pokemon can surive an attack and easily hit back and OHKO.
    But Deoxys wasn't banned for its offensiveness, or its defensiveness, it was banned for its support category.
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  8. #8
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    Not to mention Offensive and Defensive Deoxys were pretty damn solid.

    Not much can get around Cosmic Power / Taunt / Recover / Night Shade Deoxys S without a STAB super effective hit, and even then its likely going to have two Cosmic Powers before you get a chance to hit it. If you replace Night Shade for Spikes it can be a stall asset, getting three layers in nearly every game.

    Offensive Deoxys just laughed at offensive teams with its insane speed and limitless coverage.

  9. #9
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    iirc, Deoxys-S has been given time in the OU metagame in the past, and it had stranglehold dominance over the Lead spot. A lead with 180 Base Spe, Spike and SR, and can use Taunt to stop other leads from setting up? Utterly broken. It wouldn't be an OU version of what Froslass did in UU, it'd be worse.

    A lot of people also used it as a late-game cleaner, base 95 Attacking stats with a Life Orb boost are nothing to scoff at, especially with that speed.

    So yes, it should be Uber, without question.
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  10. #10
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    Deoxys-e was THE best late-game sweeper 4th gen has ever seen. 95 attacking stats are enough to hurt stuff with its amazing movepool, and 90 defenses are enough to maybe take a hit if you screw up somehow. Add to that the fact that it outspeeds a reasonable amount of scarfers, and you have a beast late-game. Uber aspect #1.

    Deoxys-e did to the OU leads what it has done to the Uber leads: completely overcentralise it. Just like in Ubers, that initial speed tie could cost you the match. Add to that its ability to set up screens with utter ease and you have the best possible lead you could ever want. Uber aspect #2.

    And past that, it is incredibly fast, but Blissey can just last for hours and hours with it's HP stat and it's Special Defense. In fact, such a powerful wall in OU, but a simple, speedy pokemon with sad stats for the most part is Uber?
    It gets Superpower.
    Deoxys-S is also fairly predictable. There isn't much it can do in Ubers except set up screens or lead.
    Garchomp is fairly predictable; it's probably Swords Dance or choiced.

  11. #11
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    Deoxys-s used stealth rock.
    Deoxys-s hung on to its sash!
    Deoxys-s used spikes.

    Comment?
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by calze6 View Post
    Deoxys-s used stealth rock.
    Deoxys-s hung on to its sash!
    Deoxys-s used spikes.

    Comment?
    Deoxys-S used Taunt
    Deoxys-S used Light Screen/Reflect
    Deoxys-S used Reflect/Light Screen
    Deoxys-S used Stealth Rock

    No one ever used Sash...Light Clay works fine considering very few things can OHKO it after it has an appropriate screen, thus it is nearly guaranteed to get one or both up unless an opposing Deoxys-S were to win a speed tie with it to Taunt it first, though that is pretty overcentralizing when you have to use the same lead you are trying to beat, and even then you only have a chance to beat it. (50/50)
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  13. #13
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    Sorry, I'm only used to what it does in ubers...
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  14. #14
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    This shouldn't even be a question. Deoxys-S proceed the highest speed in the game, it can be a deadly sweeper with Choice boosts, can be an annoyer with Haze, SR, TWave, etc. Nothing in OU can survive it.
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  15. #15
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    I love that thing. I was so sad when it was banned. But yeah, it's utterly broken.

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    Also, I just like to point out that it actually outruns scarfers and that trick scarf deoxys-s is awesome.
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  17. #17
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    I actually ran a Deoxys - S antilead for a long time, ended it up 6-0 or 5-0 teams with it. It was scary. Like is aid, I think it's broken despite how much I love him.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    Deoxys-S used Taunt
    Deoxys-S used Light Screen/Reflect
    Deoxys-S used Reflect/Light Screen
    Deoxys-S used Stealth Rock

    No one ever used Sash...Light Clay works fine considering very few things can OHKO it after it has an appropriate screen, thus it is nearly guaranteed to get one or both up unless an opposing Deoxys-S were to win a speed tie with it to Taunt it first, though that is pretty overcentralizing when you have to use the same lead you are trying to beat, and even then you only have a chance to beat it. (50/50)
    He is absolutely correct. Deoxys-s also managed to get up a few spikes after all that.

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