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Thread: Competitive Single Rates (5th Gen Standard OU) - READ FIRST POST

  1. #4451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soperman View Post
    Jut to point this out, Dragonite does basically the exact same thing, but with a higher HP stat and harder-hitting Dragon Tail
    Dragonite is also has more weaknesses, can't abuse Marvel Scale, is far more susceptible to status and considering the main point of the set is to build hazard damage, the harder hitting attack is negligible

  2. #4452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prohawk View Post
    Dragonite is also has more weaknesses, can't abuse Marvel Scale, is far more susceptible to status and considering the main point of the set is to build hazard damage, the harder hitting attack is negligible
    That was my thinking when building the team I still haven't fully trained even half of my team yet so I can't see it in action and see if the set actually works but what do you guys think, could a NFE pokemon work and if so what theif because my team at the moment will be in OU

  3. #4453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosez66 View Post
    That was my thinking when building the team I still haven't fully trained even half of my team yet so I can't see it in action and see if the set actually works but what do you guys think, could a NFE pokemon work and if so what theif because my team at the moment will be in OU
    Chansey, Porygon2, and Dusclops are all NFE pokemon that are very common and viable. I've never thought of Dragonair, but I don't see why not.
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  4. #4454
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    Does anyone think Rhydon is pretty good? I mean, it has Skarmory like defenses, 105 HP to tank hits, and a great 130 attack power. The downsides are 40 speed, 45 sp. def, and terrible typing. After an Eviolite boost, This guy can tank hits and dish out painful ones in return. It's great in a sun team, but let me show you a set.

    Gaia the Rhydon @Eviolite
    Impish Nature. Ability- Solid Rock
    252 HP, 252 Sp. def, 4 Atk
    Stealth Rock
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Megahorn

    Rather great set. In sun, it can tank freaking Hydro Pumps from Starmie. It can also kill Heatran easily, having a 4x resistance to fire, Solid Rock to take Earth Power. It only fears the rare Solarbeam, but even that isn't guaranteed to OHKO. On the other hand, Heatran holding anything not called Air Balloon is utterly raped by an Earthquake, and those with Air Balloon only take a hit before they lose their ground immunity.

    What do you think of this guy?
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  5. #4455
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverangel View Post
    Does anyone think Rhydon is pretty good? I mean, it has Skarmory like defenses, 105 HP to tank hits, and a great 130 attack power. The downsides are 40 speed, 45 sp. def, and terrible typing. After an Eviolite boost, This guy can tank hits and dish out painful ones in return. It's great in a sun team, but let me show you a set.

    Gaia the Rhydon @Eviolite
    Impish Nature. Ability- Solid Rock
    252 HP, 252 Sp. def, 4 Atk
    Stealth Rock
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Megahorn

    Rather great set. In sun, it can tank freaking Hydro Pumps from Starmie. It can also kill Heatran easily, having a 4x resistance to fire, Solid Rock to take Earth Power. It only fears the rare Solarbeam, but even that isn't guaranteed to OHKO. On the other hand, Heatran holding anything not called Air Balloon is utterly raped by an Earthquake, and those with Air Balloon only take a hit before they lose their ground immunity.

    What do you think of this guy?
    ard you using it in LC or one of the higher teirs?
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  6. #4456
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverangel View Post
    Does anyone think Rhydon is pretty good? I mean, it has Skarmory like defenses, 105 HP to tank hits, and a great 130 attack power. The downsides are 40 speed, 45 sp. def, and terrible typing. After an Eviolite boost, This guy can tank hits and dish out painful ones in return. It's great in a sun team, but let me show you a set.

    Gaia the Rhydon @Eviolite
    Impish Nature. Ability- Solid Rock
    252 HP, 252 Sp. def, 4 Atk
    Stealth Rock
    Earthquake
    Stone Edge
    Megahorn

    Rather great set. In sun, it can tank freaking Hydro Pumps from Starmie. It can also kill Heatran easily, having a 4x resistance to fire, Solid Rock to take Earth Power. It only fears the rare Solarbeam, but even that isn't guaranteed to OHKO. On the other hand, Heatran holding anything not called Air Balloon is utterly raped by an Earthquake, and those with Air Balloon only take a hit before they lose their ground immunity.

    What do you think of this guy?
    js Rhydon dont get solid rock. at best reckless/lightningrod both useless
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  7. #4457
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    Stupid Smogon. They never said anything about an ability. Ah, forget everything I said. If Rhydon did get Solid Rock, it would be good. (Also, Gamefreak, get working on an evolution for Skarmory. He would be much better with one, don't you think?)
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  8. #4458
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    ^If he gets an evolution, he better get a pre-evo too, Skarmory would be the most broken thing to hit LC since SHELL SMAWSH Clamperl.
    “The God of the old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror."

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  9. #4459
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    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 SpA / 108 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Thunder
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Roost

    Hey guys, I was making a threatlist for my rain team, and noticed that I don't really have a way to get rid of Ferrothorn and Scizor, which is pretty big since Ferrothorn is a major threat to rain teams in general, and Scizor is the king of OU (the relevant tier). Luckily, I had one team slot left, so this Pokemon needs to patch up that weakness. I chose Zapdos because of its bulk and access to Roost, while it can pose a decent offensive threat as well. My playstyle is offensive by the way, somewhat bulky but definitely offensive (no surprise probably, given how offensive the OU metagame is).

    Question 1: Since I didn't have any room left to fit in a Rapid Spinner, Stealth Rock will be a thorn in Zapdos' side. Will it still be able to fulfill its purpose (checking Ferrothorn and Scizor reliably) or not?

    The item is Leftovers for durability, while the Modest nature makes it able to pose an offensive threat to the opponent. 108 Speed EVs allow it to outspeed Jolly Beloom by 1 stat point. After this I've maxed out Special Attack, and put the remainder in HP, to form an HP stat of 358, allowing it to switch into Stealth Rock 4 times without dying.

    Question 2: Did I invest enough in Speed, or do I need more?

    Now onto the moves! Thunder is obvious; Zapdos needs a STAB attack and under rain, Thunder is the best option, doing 72.59 - 85.71% damage to CB Scizor. Heat Wave actually does more damage to it though, even under rain it deals 80.46 - 95.62% damage, which has a 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. Heat Wave is also Zapdos' only move against Ferrothorn, doing at least 50% damage to the Relaxed 252 HP / 168 SpD variant. Hidden Power [Ice] is for those Landorus and Gliscor that try to switch in on a Thunder.

    Question 3: Heat Wave only deals 50% damage to Ferrothorn, allowing it to set up 2 layers of Spikes. Is this normal for a rain team or do I need to find a way to get rid of it quicker?

    Also, if you don't see a solution to these problems (like me -__-"), here's
    Question 4: Could you find a way to check Volcarona, Jirachi, Toxicroak, Scizor and Ferrothorn using only 2 Pokemon that are viable on a rain team?
    (currently scarf Landorus and this Zapdos) << it's shaky, I know

    That's it, I hope one of you can help me with this.
    Thanks to anyone who has actually read this wall of text!

  10. #4460
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    Interesting. Zapdos isn't something I'd normally think of using to check Scizor, but it certainly does so, as there's really nothing Scizor ever carries that hurts it. As for your problem, I'd actually recommend bringing your own Toxicroak. He checks Jirachi that don't run Zen Headbutt (which no one ever really does thanks to Iron Head having a 20% better flinch rate) and can set up in defensive Jirachi with ease. Volcarona... Well, I'm not sure he checks Volcarona. In fact I know he doesn't if Volcarona happens to be running Hurricane. Scizor is walled, Ferrothorn is walled, and both are setup bait. Here's my Rain Toxicroak set that I found works amazingly in the rain.




    Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
    Adamant - Dry Skin
    252 Attack / 100 HP / 156 Speed
    -Drain Punch
    -Sucker Punch / Stone Edge
    -Substitute
    -Bulk Up

    Substitute blocks out things like HaxRachi's Thunder Wave or Ferrothorn's Leech Seed, and after that it's just a matter of spamming Bulk Up until you reach a comfortable level. I ran Sucker Punch for priority, but you could run sacrifice coverage and run Stone Edge to kill Volcarona if you're behind a substitute when it comes in.

    EDIT: In this case I'd run 156 Speed EVs to outrun standard hax abuse Jirachi so it won't Thunder Wave you.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 12th January 2013 at 9:54 PM.
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  11. #4461
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    Hmmn, that's an interesting idea, but I never thought it could take on Jirachi and Scizor.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 229-271 (68.97 - 81.62%) --> Croak's remaining HP after Black Sludge and rain is at least 37.13% - maximum 49.78%.
    After the first Bulk Up, Bullet Punch does 46.08 - 54.51%, while Toxicroak can't survive with more HP than 22.45%, which will get totally depleted in the third turn, even at +3.
    Am I using it wrong? Or maybe it needs more HP EVs? But even then it would be a very tough situation.

    And would Lucario be viable against Scizor and Ferrothorn? SD Scizor has Brick Break, but if it's Choice Banded it can't do much to Lucario, as they usually don't lock themselves into Superpower. Or maybe a Magnezone? No, probably not a Magnezone, Scizor's U-turn will do way too much damage... Hmmmn. Maybe I should give Toxicroak a try...

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedSpoon View Post
    Hmmn, that's an interesting idea, but I never thought it could take on Jirachi and Scizor.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 100 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 229-271 (68.97 - 81.62%) --> Croak's remaining HP after Black Sludge and rain is at least 37.13% - maximum 49.78%.
    After the first Bulk Up, Bullet Punch does 46.08 - 54.51%, while Toxicroak can't survive with more HP than 22.45%, which will get totally depleted in the third turn, even at +3.
    Am I using it wrong? Or maybe it needs more HP EVs? But even then it would be a very tough situation.

    And would Lucario be viable against Scizor and Ferrothorn? SD Scizor has Brick Break, but if it's Choice Banded it can't do much to Lucario, as they usually don't lock themselves into Superpower. Or maybe a Magnezone? No, probably not a Magnezone, Scizor's U-turn will do way too much damage... Hmmmn. Maybe I should give Toxicroak a try...
    Ah, you know what, ignore my suggestion, sorry. For some stupid reason I was thinking Toxicroak had a Steel resistance... God, I need sleep. ._.
    “The God of the old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; petty, unjust, unforgiving, control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully. Those of us schooled from infancy in his ways can become desensitized to their horror."

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  13. #4463
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    Awww, thanks for trying though!
    If anyone else knows a way to counter/check Ferrothorn + Scizor on a rain team please let me know!

  14. #4464
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwistedSpoon View Post
    Awww, thanks for trying though!
    If anyone else knows a way to counter/check Ferrothorn + Scizor on a rain team please let me know!
    A Magnezone with Substitute could do it. Charge Beam/Thunder in the rain, HP-Fire out of rain. Fighting-types are also semi-good at countering Ferrothorn if it is under rain, but while Terrakion is kind of the go-to Fighting-type in OU, it gets its *** kicked by Scizor. A Conkeldurr might work though.

  15. #4465
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    Numel @Eviolite
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def

    -Curse
    -Rest
    -Amnesia
    -Earthquake

    Silly, right? Yeah, kinda. But I'm not really one for serious. The reason Numel is awesome is because of its ability, Simple; all stat boosts/ drops are doubled. Many people find the best way to abuse this to be a Flame Charge set in LC, but I disagree. If used with proper team support, Numel is a monster. Team mates will need to be able to wipe out fliers, and do some work if you get crit, which does tend to happen occasionally. Something to set up Dual Screens and paralyze the opponent is also a good idea; I like Cress, as it can even Lunar Dance to make sure Numel gets in safely.

    Now, onto Numel itself. If you've done everything right and Numel is in with a reasonable amount of HP on a paralyzed opponent, you're golden. Set up either Curse or Amnesia, depending on your situation. After 1 Amnesia, this Numel's Sp. Def is comparable to that of Shuckle in sand. Anyhow, after you're set up defensively, go for Curses to max your attack (or at least +4, two boosts). The go for a sweep. Rest as necessary or if poisoned. Very little is more satisfying, I've found, than sweeping someone with a Numel in OU or UU environment.

    Stupid? Yup. Does it work? Yup. If you use it right. So, what do we think? Is Numel the next big special wall? XD

    I'm going to keep using it regardless, just for the lols when it works.
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  16. #4466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moog2 View Post
    Numel @Eviolite
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def

    -Curse
    -Rest
    -Amnesia
    -Earthquake
    2 issues here

    1 Numel has great offensive typing but one of the worst defensive typing combinations. Water weakness is a big problem not to mention it only reset bug and electric(perhaps poison as well?) So if any water attack hits you it well deal 4x damage and either ko or cripple numel and the since numel requires 2 turns to set up 2 amnesia it might be KOed in the first 2 turns.

    2nd. Earthquake can't hit flying types or pokemon with levitate. Magnemite with the right moves could probably beat numel if it has magnet rise or air balloon which is really bad.
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  17. #4467
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    Like I said; a lot of team support. Levitators and fliers need to be removed first, as to most waters, though at max Sp. Def Numel comfortably takes most Scald. Not to mention Taunt.

    I said in the description that it requires a tonne of team support, and I wasn't kidding. Paralysis support to let it set up is huge, and screens are also handy during set up.

    Thanks very much for the critique, but I'm well aware of Numel's issues and shortcomings. The post was more for the fun or enjoyment of those competitive battlers who don't always take the game 100% seriously.

    A gimmick is a gimmick. That's all this guy is. But, like most gimmicks, it's strangely fun to use, if only for the looks on people's faces.
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  18. #4468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moog2 View Post
    A gimmick is a gimmick. That's all this guy is. But, like most gimmicks, it's strangely fun to use, if only for the looks on people's faces.
    Too true when it works its fun beat my freind with a fear team consisting of Aron, Rattata and Hydreigon it was a single wifi battle and I didn't even get to use Hydreigon because he switched once and missed with cut once.

    For support I recommend a bulky phazer to force the counters out or bait that the counters would normally switch into only to be KOed by an unexpected move.
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  19. #4469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moog2 View Post
    Numel @Eviolite
    Ability: Simple
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252HP, 252 Sp. Def, 4 Def

    -Curse
    -Rest
    -Amnesia
    -Earthquake

    Silly, right? Yeah, kinda. But I'm not really one for serious. The reason Numel is awesome is because of its ability, Simple; all stat boosts/ drops are doubled. Many people find the best way to abuse this to be a Flame Charge set in LC, but I disagree. If used with proper team support, Numel is a monster. Team mates will need to be able to wipe out fliers, and do some work if you get crit, which does tend to happen occasionally. Something to set up Dual Screens and paralyze the opponent is also a good idea; I like Cress, as it can even Lunar Dance to make sure Numel gets in safely.

    Now, onto Numel itself. If you've done everything right and Numel is in with a reasonable amount of HP on a paralyzed opponent, you're golden. Set up either Curse or Amnesia, depending on your situation. After 1 Amnesia, this Numel's Sp. Def is comparable to that of Shuckle in sand. Anyhow, after you're set up defensively, go for Curses to max your attack (or at least +4, two boosts). The go for a sweep. Rest as necessary or if poisoned. Very little is more satisfying, I've found, than sweeping someone with a Numel in OU or UU environment.

    Stupid? Yup. Does it work? Yup. If you use it right. So, what do we think? Is Numel the next big special wall? XD

    I'm going to keep using it regardless, just for the lols when it works.
    After seeing your post, I decided to use Numel in an LC team.

    Let me say this, it's a very underestimated threat. Flame Charge doubles its speed, and throw in Lava Plume/Fire Blast , Earth Power and HP (Grass), it has great coverage I'm thinking about switching Amnesia with something though, maybe Earth Power? Not sure, but that's not what I'm here for.

    I'm here for this Haxmon Set I thought of, if there's any critics, please tell me.

    Deoxys @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Super Luck
    Nature: Timid/Modest
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/252 Def/252 Sp. Atk/252 Sp.Def/252 Spe
    - Frost Breath

    Looks gimmicky right? I haven't tried it yet, but I think it might be pretty cool..

    /also:

    I'm struggling at which Deoxys variant to use. Speed has a bit more bulk than attack or normal, but attack has monstorous power, though a E-speed cleanly finishes it up. Deoxys nromal is jack of all trades, but that one's probably out of the picture now XD

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  20. #4470
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    deoxys attack would be better just watch those priorities

    heres a volcarona set i`ve used for a while
    Volcarona@life orb/leftovers
    modest
    flame body
    60hp/252 sp attack/196 speed
    -fire blast
    -HP ice
    -Giga Drain
    -Quiver Dance

    he has just enough speed to outpace threats with and 80 base speed positive nature, so i can afford to use modest. This set does require decent team support in the points of rapid spin and eliminating threats that have more speed then 427 as you can only get 1 quiver dance unless your opponent lets you set up. Move spread is obvious, same coverage as genesect, with more firepower by about 50 points in sp attack, with a less powerful ice move and a more powerful fire move. Overall, this set is deadly late game as at +1, most things are KOed by the sheer power, with a LO volcarona can OHKO latios 70% of the time iirc with stealth rocks out, with rocks, a guarantied OHKO on the genies, even without them it has a chance for a OHKO but only with the LO, at +2 everything is OHKOed bar heatran, pink blobs and ttar. As far as teammates go i normally run this with salac terrakion as the 2 share alot of offensive syenergy, and latios for a 3 poke offensive core, covering most threats, with the main threats being choice scarf terrakion, hazards, and keldeo is latios is at low HP



  21. #4471
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    Which of these Landorus-T sets do you think would perform better?

    Landorus-T @ Life Orb
    Intimidate, Naive Nature.
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Special Attack.
    ~ Gravity
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Hidden Power Ice

    I have been testing this and it seems to do okay. He put speeds most Non-Choice Scarf users to set up Gravity and then proceeds to get knocked out! My main problem is Mamoswine. He is SUCH a pain and Ice Shards for a OHKO. While Gravity is his main factor, should I switch it for another move? And HP Ice is just for coverage, but the bad Sp. A gets him. Should I use this or the following.

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    Intimidate, Naive Nature.
    252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Speed.
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Knock Off
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Hidden Power Ice

    Yes, a very unusual set but very effective. I was facing a Lucario and it used Ice Punch and close Combat w/ life Orb and he still survived! He is a great tank at that and can set up SR and Knock Off the opponents Item! This set last longer than the other one, but is generally very hard to retaliate back with.

    So which is better?

  22. #4472
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    which is better would depend on the team. As for the gravity set, try sub over HP ice as quake-edge gives you the same coverage, and the sub lets you handles mamos



  23. #4473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan7437 View Post
    Which of these Landorus-T sets do you think would perform better?

    Landorus-T @ Life Orb
    Intimidate, Naive Nature.
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Special Attack.
    ~ Gravity
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Hidden Power Ice

    I have been testing this and it seems to do okay. He put speeds most Non-Choice Scarf users to set up Gravity and then proceeds to get knocked out! My main problem is Mamoswine. He is SUCH a pain and Ice Shards for a OHKO. While Gravity is his main factor, should I switch it for another move? And HP Ice is just for coverage, but the bad Sp. A gets him. Should I use this or the following.

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    Intimidate, Naive Nature.
    252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Speed.
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Knock Off
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Hidden Power Ice

    Yes, a very unusual set but very effective. I was facing a Lucario and it used Ice Punch and close Combat w/ life Orb and he still survived! He is a great tank at that and can set up SR and Knock Off the opponents Item! This set last longer than the other one, but is generally very hard to retaliate back with.

    So which is better?
    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    which is better would depend on the team. As for the gravity set, try sub over HP ice as quake-edge gives you the same coverage, and the sub lets you handles mamos
    Once again, mcdanger is correct, it depends what kind of team your using and the Pokemon in it. For example, the 1st Landorus set, would be great with Substitute, in order to take in hits from Mamoswine's Icicle Crash or Ice Shard and could be really effective on a Hyper Offensive team due to having moves that cover a lot of types, super-effectively or just normally, along with that powerful-inducing Life orb.

    The 2nd set would be nice as a tank, just as you stated. It is hard to retaliate with, yet very effective if used precisely and wisely. It provides Stealth Rock support which can be effective a lot of Pokemon and sweepers like Volcarona or Charizard. Knock Off can "knock off" the opponents item, which is good for Leftovers users and Choice Item Users. Earthquake, provides coverage from really strong Pokemon like Infernape. Yet is totally useless on Pokemon like Skarmory or Pidgeot, that's where Hidden Power Ice comes in to finish the job. Leftovers will restore HP on turns which is a good amount.

    All in all, I think the 1st set is better due to Landorus-T's INSANELY high base attack stat of 145. But, I suggest to try out both sets on different teams that can blend and mix with Landorus-T to see which one works best for you.

    Good Luck, hope this helped~! ^_^
    Last edited by White_Roar~; 18th January 2013 at 5:07 PM.

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  24. #4474
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    I'm sure I'm not the only one who has reached the conclusion that Deoxys-D is a great Calm Mind'er.


    Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
    Bold - Pressure
    252 HP, 252 Defence, 4 Speed
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam

    Deoxys's advantage over Reuniclus is that it is incredibly bulky, however it is also susceptible to Posioning, unlike Reuniclus. Therefore Aromatherapy/Heal Bell support is appreciated. You could carry Substitute or Taunt, but then you'd might as well run CroCune. Anyways, Calm Mind and Recover are self-explanatory, and then you can fit in any two of Deoxys's myriad of coverage moves. He's got access to ShadowBlast, BeamBolt, etc.
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  25. #4475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    I'm sure I'm not the only one who has reached the conclusion that Deoxys-D is a great Calm Mind'er.


    Deoxys-D @ Leftovers
    Bold - Pressure
    252 HP, 252 Defence, 4 Speed
    -Calm Mind
    -Recover
    -Thunderbolt
    -Ice Beam

    Deoxys's advantage over Reuniclus is that it is incredibly bulky, however it is also susceptible to Posioning, unlike Reuniclus. Therefore Aromatherapy/Heal Bell support is appreciated. You could carry Substitute or Taunt, but then you'd might as well run CroCune. Anyways, Calm Mind and Recover are self-explanatory, and then you can fit in any two of Deoxys's myriad of coverage moves. He's got access to ShadowBlast, BeamBolt, etc.
    I would say reuniclus is better because as you said, magic guard, but also it has 55 more special attack and arguably better bulk with 110/75/85 comparatively to 50/160/160, then jirachi who has better typing and stats. I would run max speed on the set so its not taunted as easily of revenged, mostly banded ttar.



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