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Thread: Competitive Single Rates (5th Gen Standard OU) - READ FIRST POST

  1. #4526
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeselord View Post
    Surely thunder over t wave, 100 accuracy in rain 30% paralysis. Plus nice damage.
    only problem is that makes this set even more situational, to the point that hed be better off using rain himself
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  2. #4527
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    I see what you mean, but running dragonite with dragon tail as his only offensive move seems like a waste. If you want a bulky shuffler there are lots of better options than dragonite. If you want a bulky shuffler that can deal some considerable damage, though, there aren't a great deal of alternatives.
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  3. #4528
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    The whole point of a shuffler is not to inflict large amounts of damage. It's to usually spread paralysis around, and rack up damage via stealth rock and/or spikes. like, the epitome of a parashuffler, with access to great bulk, and a great ability in multiscale. I really don't know of any better alternative, so please clarify any that are better.
    Quote Originally Posted by cheeselord View Post
    If you want a bulky shuffler there are lots of better options than dragonite. If you want a bulky shuffler that can deal some considerable damage, though, there aren't a great deal of alternatives.

  4. #4529
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    If you're going pure defensive you could use Skarmory, hippowdon or vaporeon to name a few, hippow has sandstream so he may not work but vaporeon thrives in rain so that could work for you. I've also seen celebi used as a shuffler quite effectively.
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  5. #4530

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    Quote Originally Posted by cheeselord View Post
    If you're going pure defensive you could use Skarmory, hippowdon or vaporeon to name a few, hippow has sandstream so he may not work but vaporeon thrives in rain so that could work for you. I've also seen celebi used as a shuffler quite effectively.
    None of which spread paralysis except maybe Celebi.
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  6. #4531
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    Steelix @ Lagging Tail/ Rocky Helmet
    Sturdy
    252 DEF/ 126 Sp DEF/ 126 ATK
    Relaxed Nature
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Magnet Rise

    Gyro Ball would be The most heavy hitting move in this set not only getting STAB but also doing more damage to to Steelix's low Speed. Stealth Rock is used to do damage over time Earthquake would get STAB and is also just really powerful and Magnet rise is used to prevent ko's from ground types or Mirror Move/ Mirror Coat
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothisismuffin View Post
    Steelix @ Lagging Tail/ Rocky Helmet
    Sturdy
    252 DEF/ 126 Sp DEF/ 126 ATK
    Relaxed Nature
    - Gyro Ball
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Magnet Rise

    Gyro Ball would be The most heavy hitting move in this set not only getting STAB but also doing more damage to to Steelix's low Speed. Stealth Rock is used to do damage over time Earthquake would get STAB and is also just really powerful and Magnet rise is used to prevent ko's from ground types or Mirror Move/ Mirror Coat
    You're kind of trying to go down two separate routes with this set at once, and Steelix doesn't work like that. A defensive shuffler set is what Steelix does best, and you're half going that way with Stealth Rock and the defensive EVs, but then you're also kind of trying to make him a tanky attacker with the Lagging Tail, Gyro Ball and Earthquake. He's going to work a lot better if you pick a direction and dedicate him to it. If you want a more defensive shuffler (which is what Steelix excels at), max HP and put a lot of EVs into Defense and a few in Sp Def, give him Leftovers, and replace Magnet Rise with Roar or Dragon Tail. If you want more of an attacking tank, I would say to max HP and Attack, still go with Leftovers for the item, but give him Curse over Magnet Rise (raises attack and defense, and the lower speed will boost Gyro Ball), and consider another coverage move over Stealth Rock.

  8. #4533
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    Keep it with a Relaxed Nature?
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothisismuffin View Post
    Keep it with a Relaxed Nature?
    Yes. You're going to want Gyro Ball no matter what.

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    Hi! I have a Zoroark in my team and I'm not so sure about his moveset, so I'll present you 3 alternatives, hoping you could tell me what's the best one. But also, I'm open to other suggestions.


    Zoroark @ Life Orb
    Ability: Illusion
    EVs: 148 Atk/108 Sp. Atk/252 Spd
    Nature: Naive
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt
    - Flamethrower
    - Grass Knot

    In this set, it would be mostly used as a revenge killer through Sucker Punch, and as a way of stopping the opponents who try to set up through Taunt. The other moves are mainly for increasing coverage, as no one in my team has Fire or Grass moves, and to represent the Sp. Atk, as I wanted the Zoroark to run both offenses for prevention.


    Zoroark @ Choice Band/Specs
    Ability: Illusion
    EVs: 148 Atk/108 Sp. Atk/252 Spd
    Nature: Naive
    - Sucker Punch
    - Taunt
    - Flamethrower
    - Trick

    The purpose is more or less the same as the first one, but Trick is replacing Grass Knot, because I thought that, as Zoroark is not a manly ofensive force, it could be used not only for revenge killing, but for annoying my opponent and messing up their strategy. I also wanted to use Trick, because is a move I've never used before.
    The problem is, if I mispredict my opponent (whether using Sucker Punch or Trick) it will get me in trouble, as the opponent would get one turn of advantage and realise my strategy, besides the problems of having to switch out just because of a misprediction.


    Zoroark @ Choice Band
    Ability: Illusion
    EVs: 148 Atk/108 Sp. Atk/252 Spd
    Nature: Naive
    - Night Daze
    - Taunt
    - U-Turn
    - Trick

    The strategy is the same of the previous moveset, but I replaced Sucker Punch for Night Daze (compromising the revenge killing), as I wanted to include U-Turn to make more use of the Choice Band and in case the situation isn't good to use Trick, so I can escape from it more easily.
    Also, Night Daze would be more powerful, as Zoroark's Sp. Atk is higher than the Attack.
    The problem is, besides not having a priority move, as Sucker Punch is an egg move, if I do replace it for Night Daze, I won't be able to change my mind again, so...
    And I really would not want to breed a whole new Zoroark, this one is family already

    Thanks in advance! ^-^

  11. #4536
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    First, the third set would require Choice Specs, as Specs increases special attack. Also, you wouldn't use Taunt on any Choice Set. Replace it with Dark Pulse on the second set and Focus Blast on the third.

    Also, replace any Night Dazes with Dark Pulses, as Night Daze makes it obvious it's a Zoroark.

    I would personally go for the mixed Life Orb set, just with Dark Pulse/Sucker Punch/Low Sweep or Focus Blast/Flamethrower
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  12. #4537
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverangel View Post
    First, the third set would require Choice Specs, as Specs increases special attack. Also, you wouldn't use Taunt on any Choice Set. Replace it with Dark Pulse on the second set and Focus Blast on the third.

    Also, replace any Night Dazes with Dark Pulses, as Night Daze makes it obvious it's a Zoroark.

    I would personally go for the mixed Life Orb set, just with Dark Pulse/Sucker Punch/Low Sweep or Focus Blast/Flamethrower
    Yes, I agree. About the Taunt thing, that's why I'm thinking about giving up the Trick idea, as I have no Taunt user in my team.
    So the thing is: Taunt or Trick?

    In the case of choosing Trick, I'll make the modifications, but which set would be better, the second (Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse, Flamethrower and Trick) or the third (Dark Pulse, Focus Blast, U-Turn and Trick)?

    I think I will not use that Life Orb set, as I think using either Taunt or Trick would be necessary, but I may try it out.

  13. #4538
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    Trick isn't necessary at all. However, if you have a phazer in your team, then Taunt isn't really much to worry about not having. Zoroark is supposed to be an attacker or a sweeper anyways.

    In the end, Scarf with Dark Pulse/Focus Blast/U-Turn/Trick would be better.
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  14. #4539
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    I do have a phazer, but I think it's not so good for this purpose as is a Garchomp. The phazer could be my Vaporeon, but I'd rather have Heal Bell instead, is another thing I could try out though.

    I'll test all alternatives and see what adapts better. But leaving all aside, I want my Zoroark to have Sucker Punch, what do you think is the best set using Sucker Punch, being a mixed set?

  15. #4540
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    The best option for a mixed set, and for using Sucker Punch in general, is using Life Orb. This is mainly because if the opponent predicts a Sucker Punch and sets up, you're kinda screwed. So if you do use Sucker Punch, go for an All-Out Attacker set with Sucker Punch/Flamethrower/Focus Blast/Dark Pulse. Your EVs, while okay, would be better suited as 32 Atk, 252 sp. Atk, 224 spd this allows a OHKO on Latios after Stealth Rock, being able to outspeed all pokemon with base 101 speed, and the rest in special attack to maximize Zoroark's offensive presence.

    And for phazing, you should use Vaporeon, or maybe parashuffler Dragonite over Garchomp.
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  16. #4541
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    I see.
    Do you think it's still necessary for Zoroark to have Focus Blast if another pokemon in my team already has it?

    The addition of Dragonite wouldn't add any double weaknesses on my team, but it would add a weakness to rock type, and I would loose the immunity to electric type, that I used to prevent Vaporeon being hit by a electric move and to get a safe switch in.

    So what do you think is better: replace Heal Bell for Roar on Vaporeon or replace Garchomp for Dragonite?
    Or just stick with Taunt on Zoroark?
    Last edited by Arkygi; 20th April 2013 at 2:47 PM.

  17. #4542
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    Scizor @ Occa Berry
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Superpower
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite

    This is a mixture of bulky SD Scizor and Offensive SD Scizor. It needs rain to work reliably, but but being hit my Fire type attacks neutrally with the Occa Berry, can set up Swords Dance a little more easily It easily turns things such as Heatran and Mangezone into set-up bait instead of counters and quickly eliminates them. In rain, it can take anything Heatran can throw at it, bar Specs boosted Fire Blast, and hit back with a +2 Superpower, or Superpower on the switch with SR down. This set trades the bulk that the bulky version has for the ability to reliably beat Heatran and Magnezone in the rain. While less bulky than the CB version, it still has some nice bulk with its resistances. It has enough speed to outspeed SDefTran and OHKO with a +2 Superpower, so Heatran isn't a safe switch (It can survive a Fire Blast in the rain from offensive Heatran if SR is not down and even then, it has a chance). While it does lack a Life Orb to boost its power, it still hits pretty hard with Bullet Punch at +2 and being able to handle most steels already make it pretty awesome. At +2, it still has enough power to OHKO SDef Jirachi with a little prior damage to it (or SR+1 layer of Spikes). This set mainly aims to get past Heatran and Magnezone, but can get past somethings that rely on HP[Fire] to KO Scizor, such as Alakazam. While it can't switch into as much as the Band or SDef set, it can set-up on a lot of things that rely on Fire moves to KO Scizor. Brick Break could be ran, but it a HUGE drop in power and does not OHKO SDefHeatran without SR.

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  18. #4543
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    Flygon @ Dragon Fang
    Ability: Levitate
    EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk/ 252 Speed
    Jolly Nature

    - Dragon Claw
    - Sandstorm
    - Superpower
    - Earthquake

    My Flygon is meant to set up sandstorm and then act as a fast physical sweeper. Dragon Claw and Earthquake are there as stab moves, while Superpower is used to counter Ice type pokemon. The Dragon fang is meant to boost dragon claw's power as it has a lower power compared to earthquake and superpower. Flygon is not my lead, it is more of a revenge killer, which I then try to keep in. It doesn't perform too well in random matchups though, but that maybe because I'm new to competitive battling. What can I do to improve this flygon?
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  19. #4544
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    Dragon fang is not recommended, life orb is much better as it gives a greater boost and affects all moves instead of just one (plus dragon claw isn't even his weakest move when you take into account STAB). Sandstorm is questionable as well, though it might be cool to send him in for a revenge kill then predict a switch and set up sandstorm on your free turn, the sandstorm will only last 5 turns without smooth rock, and if you give him smooth rock over life orb his attack power will be lackluster. Obviously the best way of setting up sandstorm is by using a hippowdon or tyranitar, but since I guess this is for lower tiers you will have to manually set it up, though it's probably best to have a dedicated support pokemon to do it. On this set though I'd just replace it with fire punch or fire blast (in which case change the nature to naive, of course).

    Obviously if you intend to use this in OU then your best bet is to completely ditch flygon and use Garchomp who outclasses Flygon in every conceivable way.
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  20. #4545
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    Just caught Regice and it turned out to be really good with a Sp DEF of 308 at Lv 65.

    So here's what i want to see:

    Regice @ Leftovers/Shell Bell
    Clear Body
    Not sure what EVs
    Careful
    -Amnesia
    -Ice Beam
    -Hammer Arm
    -? (probably Curse)

    A definite wall. The Careful Nature boosts its already beefy Sp DEF and Amnesia only boosts it further. Ice Beam for STAB and for the effect chance. Hammer Arm for Rock and Steel Types.

    Obviously some holes can be poked in this but it isn't completely finished

    Also considering a shuffler Garchomp
    Last edited by hellothisismuffin; 2nd May 2013 at 3:28 AM.
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  21. #4546
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    Red face

    Gengar @ black sludge
    Nature: timid
    Ability: levitate
    EVs:110hp 230spd 230spatk
    Moves: hypnosis
    Stealth rock
    Nightmare
    Dark pulse

    Turn.1 hypnosis the opponent can't move If the opponent wakes up redo turn 1 and 2
    Turn.2 if hypnosis hits use nightmare
    Turn.3-5 use stealth rock
    Turn.6 use dark pulse

    When the opponent faints use turns 1-2-6

    He is also protected from trick unless it is part poison type and even if he does get tricked by a non poison type every turn they will get damaged if it is part poison type than I have a problem

    (Footnote: I only use this strategy in competitive battles/hard battles :>
    Last edited by Victiniepicness; 3rd May 2013 at 11:40 AM.

  22. #4547

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothisismuffin View Post
    Just caught Regice and it turned out to be really good with a Sp DEF of 308 at Lv 65.

    So here's what i want to see:

    Regice @ Leftovers/Shell Bell
    Clear Body
    Not sure what EVs
    Careful
    -Amnesia
    -Ice Beam
    -Hammer Arm
    -? (probably Curse)

    A definite wall. The Careful Nature boosts its already beefy Sp DEF and Amnesia only boosts it further. Ice Beam for STAB and for the effect chance. Hammer Arm for Rock and Steel Types.

    Obviously some holes can be poked in this but it isn't completely finished

    Also considering a shuffler Garchomp
    Regice has a very usable Special Attack at Base 100; why would you use a nature that lowers it, when the obvious choice is going to be to lower its pitiful base 50 attack instead? Drop Hammer Arm, it's attack is too poor to use it. Regice will never be beating Rock/Steel/Fighting types anyway, because they prey on its lower physical defense and force it out. Use Calm if you want more SpD, or Modest if you'd rather run a bulky attacker (since its SpD is already pretty high to boot).

    Amnesia is a waste as well; boosting your SpD gives them a free turn to switch in a physical attacker and ignore your Amnesia entirely.

    Ice Beam is perhaps the only move you want to keep on Regice. Give it Thunderbolt as well, since it has phenomenal coverage alongside Ice Beam, and one of Regice's advantages over other ice types is that it learns said Thunderbolt. Rest/Sleep Talk also works well on him, since unlike Blissey, he doesn't have nature cure or any other reliable forms of recovery, so he can be easily worn down or crippled by status. Rest will prevent both, while Sleep Talk takes advantage of the would-be hindrance of being put to sleep to recover.

    Don't focus on trying to counter Rock/Steel/Fighting; Regice is never going to beat them 1v1. This is why you have teammates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victiniepicness View Post
    Gengar @ black sludge
    Nature: timid
    Ability: levitate
    EVs:110hp 230spd 230spatk
    Moves: hypnosis
    Stealth rock
    Nightmare
    Dark pulse

    Turn.1 hypnosis the opponent can't move If the opponent wakes up redo turn 1 and 2
    Turn.2 if hypnosis hits use nightmare
    Turn.3-5 use stealth rock
    Turn.6 use dark pulse

    When the opponent faints use turns 1-2-6

    He is also protected from trick unless it is part poison type and even if he does get tricked by a non poison type every turn they will get damaged if it is part poison type than I have a problem

    (Footnote: I only use this strategy in competitive battles/hard battles :>
    You do realize that's an illegal moveset, right? Gengar can't learn stealth rock. Not to mention your EV Spread doesn't work, since you can only have 510 total; you put down 570.

    Hypnosis only has 60% accuracy. You can't rely too heavily on it, which makes Nightmare gimmicky. If you miss with Hypnosis, Gengar's frailty means it's going to die.

    There's no reason to use Dark Pulse on Gengar, when Shadow Ball has almost identical coverage, but Gengar gets STAB on SB.

    Black Sludge is also pointless given Gengar is incredibly frail, and likely won't survive more than two attacks total (With it being very likely he'll be 1HKO'ed). Gengar is also not protected from Trick; just because the opponent tricks a Black Sludge onto themselves, doesn't mean it protects Gengar, since the foe can still Trick a Choice Band or Flame Orb or something onto him. Not to mention that Black Sludge doesn't stop them from Tricking again, so they can actually Trick your own Black Sludge onto some other Pokemon of yours.

    Using that in a competitive battle will give you problems because it's highly gimmicky.
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  23. #4548
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    Hi! I'm trying to build a team and would be open to any helpful advice. So far, I have:

    Durant @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Truant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Entrainment
    - Iron Head
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    This is my opening pokemon. I open with entrainment to change the enemy's ability to truant, making them skip every other move.

    Smeargle @ Leftovers
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Protect
    - Baton Pass
    - Mean Look
    This is used to maximize the attack, special attack, and speed stats. Assuming the enemy does not switch out, Smeargle can use mean look to trap the pokemon, and then alternate between protect and shell smash until attack is maximized. Then, all those stats are baton passed to Cloyster.


    Cloyster @ White Herb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    The White Herb removes the defense and special defense drops. With skill link, icicle spear and rock blast hit 5 times each. My cloyster is quite weak to steel, but I can't find physical moves that would work against steel.

  24. #4549

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    Quote Originally Posted by kzhu98 View Post
    Hi! I'm trying to build a team and would be open to any helpful advice. So far, I have:

    Durant @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Truant
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Entrainment
    - Iron Head
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    This is my opening pokemon. I open with entrainment to change the enemy's ability to truant, making them skip every other move.
    Truant Durant only works for in-game opponents (i.e., Battle Subway), as it's easily screwed by switching, and Durant itself is still crippled by Truant; just because it entrains it onto the enemy does not free it from the horrible side effect upon itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhu98 View Post
    Smeargle @ Leftovers
    Trait: Own Tempo
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Protect
    - Baton Pass
    - Mean Look
    This is used to maximize the attack, special attack, and speed stats. Assuming the enemy does not switch out, Smeargle can use mean look to trap the pokemon, and then alternate between protect and shell smash until attack is maximized. Then, all those stats are baton passed to Cloyster.
    You can't Baton Pass Mean Look as of Gen V. Being trapped in on Smeargle doesn't accomplish much since Smeargle is so frail that it's likely to be 1HKO'ed, and you have nothing to prevent them from doing so. Smeargle has to use a Focus Sash if you want to use it at all (and even then it's not foolproof) because of its extreme frailty. Also, if you use Smeargle, you pretty much have to use Spore. It's pretty bad without it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kzhu98 View Post
    Cloyster @ White Herb
    Trait: Skill Link
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Icicle Spear
    - Rock Blast
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    The White Herb removes the defense and special defense drops. With skill link, icicle spear and rock blast hit 5 times each. My cloyster is quite weak to steel, but I can't find physical moves that would work against steel.
    Just forget about Baton Passing Shell Smash and have Cloyster carry it itself. Drop RestTalk to fit it on, in which case you can also put Hydro Pump on Cloyster instead. Don't let the Adamant Nature deter you; after a Shell Smash it'll have a crap ton of power behind it regardless of the nature, which makes it good for cracking steel types and physical walls who might otherwise give you problems.
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  25. #4550
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    You can't Baton Pass Mean Look as of Gen V. Being trapped in on Smeargle doesn't accomplish much since Smeargle is so frail that it's likely to be 1HKO'ed, and you have nothing to prevent them from doing so. Smeargle has to use a Focus Sash if you want to use it at all (and even then it's not foolproof) because of its extreme frailty. Also, if you use Smeargle, you pretty much have to use Spore. It's pretty bad without it.
    But if the enemy is truant, I can shell smash when it's goofing around and protect every other turn against their attacks.

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