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Thread: Competitive Single Rates (5th Gen Standard OU) - READ FIRST POST

  1. #3851
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    Quote Originally Posted by floatzel98 View Post
    Um, a substitute with 3 attacks can work pretty well and you can use dragon pulse on it, along with fire blast and focus blast, but since you don't wanna use that earth power would help the next most.
    I dunno, Surf is a tad stronger than Earth Power and can hit just about anything that Earth Power beats, Infernape and Terrakion most notably as well.

    So how does the Substitute set work? What item is used for it?
    Last edited by Almighty Zard; 3rd February 2012 at 11:36 PM.

  2. #3852
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    I don't know why dugtrio isn't used like this more often; it seems like a great idea:

    Dugtrio@Choice Band
    Arena Trap
    252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Night Slash/Pursuit

    This would be a lead, then it would serve as a revenge-killer later on. Stealth Rock is a great entry hazard, blah, blah, blah. Earthquake and Stone Edge get good coverage. The Dark move is there as something of a filler. Night Slash gets good supereffective coverage, but Pursuit can take stuff like Latias/Latios and other levitators/fliers for good damage. Plus, no one expects it on Dugtrio (as far as i know).
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  3. #3853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    I dunno, Surf is a tad stronger than Earth Power and can hit just about anything that Earth Power beats, Infernape and Terrakion most notably as well.

    So how does the Substitute set work? What item is used for it?
    Not too weird a set

    Hydreigon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Surf / Focus Blast / Earthpower

  4. #3854
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    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyl
    EVs: 8 HP / 40 Atk / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    - Growth
    - Earthquake
    - Frenzy Plant
    - Sludge Bomb

    That's right, it's a weather killer Venusaur! I usually carry this when I have Politoed and Scizor on my team. If my opponent has a weather starter, I start out with either Politoed if they have Ninetales, Scizor if they have Abomasnow, and Venusaur in all other cases. It can take a max Special Attack Tyranitar's Fire Blast, still stand, and is fast enough to strike back first. The same applies to Politoed's Ice Beam.

    The first turn, Growth is used which increases Attack and Special Attack by one stage each putting all max HP max Special Defence weather starters bar Ninetales in the one hit KO range. Luckily, Growth's effect is doubled in strong sunlight allowing Venusaur to KO Ninetales with a single Earthquake (bar the odd one carrying the Focus Sash). After a boost to Special Attack, Frenzy Plant is the only move that is strong enough to one hit KO max HP max Special Defence Tyranitar in a sandstorm (along with Hippowdon and Politoed). Sludge Bomb is used for the odd Abomasnow but it feels a bit wasted at times.
    Last edited by ParaChomp; 4th February 2012 at 4:20 PM.
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  5. #3855
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyl
    EVs: 8 HP / 40 Atk / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Modest
    - Growth
    - Earthquake
    - Frenzy Plant
    - Sludge Bomb

    That's right, it's a weather killer Venusaur! I usually carry this when I have Politoed and Scizor on my team. If my opponent has a weather starter, I start out with either Politoed if they have Ninetales, Scizor if they have Abomasnow, and Venusaur in all other cases. It can take a max Special Attack Tyranitar's Fire Blast, still stand, and is fast enough to strike back first. The same applies to Politoed's Ice Beam.

    The first turn, Growth is used which increases Attack and Special Attack by one stage each putting all max HP max Special Defence weather starters bar Ninetales in the one hit KO range. Luckily, Growth's effect is doubled in strong sunlight allowing Venusaur to KO Ninetales with a single Earthquake (bar the odd one carrying the Focus Sash). After a boost to Special Attack, Frenzy Plant is the only move that is strong enough to one hit KO max HP max Special Defence Tyranitar in a sandstorm (along with Hippowdon and Politoed). Sludge Bomb is used for the odd Abomasnow but it feels a bit wasted at times.
    I understand your ides and it looks good to me but the thing with Frenzy Plant making you lose a turn and not even be able to switch really sucks and the oppoent can use that against you, my idea is why not going more phisical with seed bomb and more phisical EVs? you will KO Ttar well the Sp Def. variants
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  6. #3856
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverpoweredScizor View Post
    I don't know why dugtrio isn't used like this more often; it seems like a great idea:

    Dugtrio@Choice Band
    Arena Trap
    252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Night Slash/Pursuit

    This would be a lead, then it would serve as a revenge-killer later on. Stealth Rock is a great entry hazard, blah, blah, blah. Earthquake and Stone Edge get good coverage. The Dark move is there as something of a filler. Night Slash gets good supereffective coverage, but Pursuit can take stuff like Latias/Latios and other levitators/fliers for good damage. Plus, no one expects it on Dugtrio (as far as i know).
    I don't like to quote myself, but the forum seems to have passed me by :P.
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  7. #3857
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverpoweredScizor View Post
    I don't like to quote myself, but the forum seems to have passed me by :P.
    Well i'm not really good at rating things entirely, but your Dugtrio does seem solid, except for one thing.

    I would go ahead with night slash for the final slot instead of pursuit, with arena trap not many pokemon are going to be running from you unless that have fly or levitate making the attack extremely situational apposed to a normal pursuit user like say Scizor, as for the other moves they seem pretty good.
    Last edited by Almighty Zard; 4th February 2012 at 11:12 PM.

  8. #3858
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkmnswampmaster View Post
    I understand your ides and it looks good to me but the thing with Frenzy Plant making you lose a turn and not even be able to switch really sucks and the oppoent can use that against you, my idea is why not going more phisical with seed bomb and more phisical EVs? you will KO Ttar well the Sp Def. variants
    Mmm...good point but Seed Bomb doesn't KO Tyranitar and Hippowdon with one hit 100% of the time after a +1 boost from Growth but I'll give it a shot. Frenzy Plant has gotten me some nice extra KOs when possible but the recharge turn has been a real game breaker when things didn't work out as well as planned.

    With Seed Bomb in mind, should I still run mixed with Sludge Bomb to cover Abomasnow or use a support move?
    Last edited by ParaChomp; 4th February 2012 at 8:24 PM.
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  9. #3859
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    With Seed Bomb in mind, should I still run mixed with Sludge Bomb to cover Abomasnow or use a support move?
    Nah, I'd go with sleep power or stun spore. Abomasnow isn't as common as the other weather starters, and you've already got a Scizor. It also means you can use swords dance > growth.
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  10. #3860
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Nah, I'd go with sleep power or stun spore. Abomasnow isn't as common as the other weather starters, and you've already got a Scizor. It also means you can use swords dance > growth.
    Okay, thanks a lot.
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  11. #3861

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    This set is surprisingly effective.

    Ampharos@Leftovers
    Static - Calm - 252 HP/252 Sp.Atk/4 Sp.Def
    -Cotton Guard
    -Charge
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power Ice

    Maybe I've been against favorable matchups, but I've been finding time to send Ampharos in and set up. One Cotton Guard is all he needs to attain instant bulk. Physical attackers that try to beat it down will be suddenly paralyzed by Static. Charge works to double the power of Thunderbolt and boost Sp.Def, the other stat untouched by Cotton Guard. HP Ice is so that you can harm everything else a la the classic Bolt Beam combo.

    Works as an effective Ground lure. If you manage to get +6 with Cotton Guard, you can tank Earthquakes while whittling them down with HP Ice, making Ampharos one of the few Electric types that can beat them one on one. Don't be afraid of keeping Ampharos in to keep your boosts, though. One Cotton Guard is usually all you'll need for the time Ampharos is in. So if something is setting up or about to hit you with status, it's ideal to send in something else that can better handle the threat.


    Gyarados@Leftovers
    Impish - Intimidate - 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
    -Thunder Wave
    -Waterfall
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake/Return/Headbutt/Ice Fang

    May I just say that Gyarados is an amazing bulky water to spread paralysis? Switching him in is easy. Weakening switch ins is even easier, because nobody sees Thunder Wave on him anymore. Because you're relying on Thunder Wave to slow down opponents, all the EVs are packed into HP and Attack. Waterfall is your STAB, which can also abuse some flinchhax. Stone Edge and Earthquake give you some coverage. Same with Return too, but Headbutt is an option for additional flinchhax. Ice Fang is for Grass types.

  12. #3862
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverpoweredScizor View Post
    I don't like to quote myself, but the forum seems to have passed me by :P.
    Choice Band is for a revenge killer not a lead, using banded Stealth Rocks will give you no boosts at all and will just force you to switch out giving your opponent a free turn, Focus sash is far more superior for a lead Dugtrio
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  13. #3863
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    Quote Originally Posted by floatzel98 View Post
    Not too weird a set

    Hydreigon (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast / Flamethrower
    - Surf / Focus Blast / Earthpower
    is this set really ok? I've only seen one opinion on it so far, and part of me don't feel confrotable losing Dark Pulse...

  14. #3864
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    ^If Heatran isn't too much of a problem to your team, Dark Pulse could work as the 4th move.
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  15. #3865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    ^If Heatran isn't too much of a problem to your team, Dark Pulse could work as the 4th move.
    well...dark pulse has been handy for the flinch effect and it does hurt Jellicent badly...i'm just really confused about what to do about that move.

  16. #3866
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    In the end it's up to you. are you actually playing in the OU tier or some where else. Change the moves for the type of pokemon you frequently see.

  17. #3867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    well...dark pulse has been handy for the flinch effect and it does hurt Jellicent badly...i'm just really confused about what to do about that move.
    I was saying that if you're team is not weak to heatran, you can always use Dark Pulse in the 4th slot, and dragon pulse/fire blast will provide the coverage.

    If heatran is a pain for your team, stick with Surf/Earth Power in the last slot.
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  18. #3868
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkmnswampmaster View Post
    Choice Band is for a revenge killer not a lead, using banded Stealth Rocks will give you no boosts at all and will just force you to switch out giving your opponent a free turn, Focus sash is far more superior for a lead Dugtrio
    Good point then I'll use focus sash but what are good moves for lead Dugtrio besides SR? I'm not going to use all that offense if it's just a lead.
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  19. #3869
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    Well a focus sash with reversal works. Not to many options for him. Probably better using a different pokemon if you are using dugtrio just for rocks.

  20. #3870
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    Quote Originally Posted by floatzel98 View Post
    In the end it's up to you. are you actually playing in the OU tier or some where else. Change the moves for the type of pokemon you frequently see.
    i play mostly over at Gamefaqs, and it's true i tend to see Heatran alot more often, so i'll give this set a try and see how it works.

  21. #3871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    i play mostly over at Gamefaqs, and it's true i tend to see Heatran alot more often, so i'll give this set a try and see how it works.
    Though if it doesn't work, Focus Blast/Dark Pulse coverage could also work.
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  22. #3872
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    I actually just saw that Sub Hydreigon set today on PO while I was laddering.


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  23. #3873
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    You could also try a different approach and use charge beam to boost ur Spa.

  24. #3874
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    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    -Flare Blitz
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn

    Pretty standard set, right? I've been using this Infernape for a long time and she's always worked out well as a sweeper/wallbreaker, but lately she hasn't really been holding her own. She doesn't seem to do as much damage as she used to, she seems to get outsped more often than I'd like, and I don't feel like I can safely switch her in on any attacks she doesn't resist. Can anyone suggest a way to improve this? I'm tempted to try SD > U-turn, but I don't know if she's bulky enough for that.

    Alternatively, are there any bulkier Fighting-types I might find as a replacement? Preferably something resistant to Ice.

  25. #3875
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP
    -Flare Blitz
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -U-turn

    Pretty standard set, right? I've been using this Infernape for a long time and she's always worked out well as a sweeper/wallbreaker, but lately she hasn't really been holding her own. She doesn't seem to do as much damage as she used to, she seems to get outsped more often than I'd like, and I don't feel like I can safely switch her in on any attacks she doesn't resist. Can anyone suggest a way to improve this? I'm tempted to try SD > U-turn, but I don't know if she's bulky enough for that.

    Alternatively, are there any bulkier Fighting-types I might find as a replacement? Preferably something resistant to Ice.
    The standard wall breaking Infernape carries Overheat > Fire blast and a Naive nature, but with just 4 sp.att EVs. Most fire weak pokemon are physically defensive.

    Choice Band Terrakion could work if you still want to replace it.
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