Competitive Single Rates - READ FIRST POST

[That Crazy Russian™]

This is a set that i have made.

Deoxys-S
Nature:Timid
EV:4Def,252SpA,252Spe
Item:Life Orb
Moveset
-Stealth rocks
-Sunny Day
-Hidden Power Fire
-Calm Mind

This Deoxys-S is one of my favourite leads.I usally Set up Rocks first before saving him for later.
He has Destroyed multiple teams due to HP Fire Calm mind and Sun Boosted.Overall all its a great Set

what is this...

this is severely outclassed by groundon, who actually has substantial bulk, and sets sunup better.

that set is too much set-up. set up rocks, set up sun, get the cm in, then hp fire :/ deoxys-s is not a mono-attacking, bulky beast. the reason its used is spikes and stealth rock. and speed. though, arguably, a band set/ specs set can work wonders.

deoxys-s @specs/scarf
- jolly/ modest -
4 hp/ 252 SpA/ 252 speed
- Ice Beam
- Psychic/Psycho boost
- Thunderbolt
- Fire blast/ Grass knot/ Superpower/ Extremespeed

i forgot where i saw it(user-wise) but the user used an attacking deoxys-s with great results.

[Eaglehawk]

alright, i've been testing a stall politoed, and it can outstall gastrodon and otthe rbulky statusers by utilizing one underappreciated move.

Politoed @Leftovers
Calm
Drizzle
248Hp 100Def 160Sp.Def
-Scald
-Protect
-Toxic
-Refresh
poli can utilize refresh quite well, as it allows him to shrug off satus while he posions his foes. gastro, jelly, all pokes who try to toxic me get a nasty surprise, and this set can be hard to work around.

1) Refresh only is good if you are a bulky sweeper e.g. Altaria, Latias. It's never good on a bulky pokemon, since it's almost always a waste of a move slot.
2) The rest is ridiculously cliche and standard. The only thing you changed was switching something like Perish Song for a subpar move and split the defenses to the point where it doesn't even tank crap any better than before. 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef or any other variant involving ± 8 EVs in any defensive stat does a much better job at tanking and taking hits than your spread.

This is a set that i have made.

Deoxys-S
Nature:Timid
EV:4Def,252SpA,252Spe
Item:Life Orb
Moveset
-Stealth rocks
-Sunny Day
-Hidden Power Fire
-Calm Mind

This Deoxys-S is one of my favourite leads.I usally Set up Rocks first before saving him for later.
He has Destroyed multiple teams due to HP Fire Calm mind and Sun Boosted.Overall all its a great Set

>CM
>No STAB?

Well, I don't know what to say. Sunny Day is pretty useless due to the existence of Groudon in Ubers. However, I can see a full CM sweeping set working nicely.

[Darkrulerjoe]

I been trying to think of a good set for a Sheer Force Rampardos. Here's what I'm currently looking at..

Rampardos @Life Orb
Sheer Force
EVs: Attack and HP
Adamant
-Rock Slide
-Crunch
-Zen Headbut
-Curse

With a Nature + EVs in Attack, I could have a max of 238 Attack at level 50, and a little over 200 HP (as if that matters if I get hit lol..) Using Rock Slide with Sheer Force + Life Orb will boost Rock Slide to 126 power (with removing flinch) + Stab. The Crunch/Zen Headbut will become 135 Power moves. Using Zen Headbut since it can take care of my Fighting weakness and a good portion of Grass type are also part poison so it can also help in those situations. I picked crunch since there was not to many other powerful physical moves that had decent attack that would benefit with sheer force. As far as Curse goes...I really didn't know what else to give him, I was basically thinking of using Superpower for when I really really need it or Head Smash for 150 power + Life orb making it 195 power but can easily kill me in the process since I take half the recoil. I also thought about Rock Polish but decided maybe I shouldn't.

I decided to stick with Curse, since I only do Doubles now so Curse is another good move if, let's say my Partner (or my other pokemon) can knock out all the threats on that turn and to avoid my attack doing nothing since there would be no targets just use curse etc.

I have not made this Rampardos yet so if you have a better idea on moves or where I should EV Train it then let me know.

[Eaglehawk]

alright, i've been testing a stall politoed, and it can outstall gastrodon and otthe rbulky statusers by utilizing one underappreciated move.

Politoed @Leftovers
Calm
Drizzle
248Hp 100Def 160Sp.Def
-Scald
-Protect
-Toxic
-Refresh
poli can utilize refresh quite well, as it allows him to shrug off satus while he posions his foes. gastro, jelly, all pokes who try to toxic me get a nasty surprise, and this set can be hard to work around.

This is a set that i have made.

Deoxys-S
Nature:Timid
EV:4Def,252SpA,252Spe
Item:Life Orb
Moveset
-Stealth rocks
-Sunny Day
-Hidden Power Fire
-Calm Mind

This Deoxys-S is one of my favourite leads.I usally Set up Rocks first before saving him for later.
He has Destroyed multiple teams due to HP Fire Calm mind and Sun Boosted.Overall all its a great Set

I been trying to think of a good set for a Sheer Force Rampardos. Here's what I'm currently looking at..

Rampardos @Life Orb
Sheer Force
EVs: Attack and HP
Adamant
-Rock Slide
-Crunch
-Zen Headbut
-Curse

With a Nature + EVs in Attack, I could have a max of 238 Attack at level 50, and a little over 200 HP (as if that matters if I get hit lol..) Using Rock Slide with Sheer Force + Life Orb will boost Rock Slide to 126 power (with removing flinch) + Stab. The Crunch/Zen Headbut will become 135 Power moves. Using Zen Headbut since it can take care of my Fighting weakness and a good portion of Grass type are also part poison so it can also help in those situations. I picked crunch since there was not to many other powerful physical moves that had decent attack that would benefit with sheer force. As far as Curse goes...I really didn't know what else to give him, I was basically thinking of using Superpower for when I really really need it or Head Smash for 150 power + Life orb making it 195 power but can easily kill me in the process since I take half the recoil. I also thought about Rock Polish but decided maybe I shouldn't.

I decided to stick with Curse, since I only do Doubles now so Curse is another good move if, let's say my Partner (or my other pokemon) can knock out all the threats on that turn and to avoid my attack doing nothing since there would be no targets just use curse etc.

I have not made this Rampardos yet so if you have a better idea on moves or where I should EV Train it then let me know.

Curse is completely detrimental altogether as his Rock typing does not help its completely crappy typing and crap defenses. Having a drop in Speed doesn't help at all either, and just worsens the chances of it "sweeping".

If you're really aming to use it in doubles, your best bet is Adamant Rock Polish with a Pokemon to use Follow Me. It allows for completely safe set-up turn to boost its speed to a good amount and just hit everything superhard.

[Darkrulerjoe]

Yea I see what you mean. At least I'll have a point in using my Amoongus lol. Thanks for the information. I think Rampardos is going to be fun to play. Now I just need to find a DW one lol.

[Pokemonpal7]

Sceptile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Outrage
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
The way I've set up the item and ability is that Sceptile can get two moves against most Pokemon; Unburden makes Sceptile have the equivalent of 240 Base Power. So even if it goes last on the first go, it's nearly guaranteed go first on the second. In B2W2, Sceptile got some great new techniques. Outrage and DrainPunch are both Move Tutor moves Sceptile can learn this game, and they provide coverage to hit any type at least neutral. You can double Sceptile's attack on the first go with Swords Dance, then land a heavy blow next turn. Leaf Blade is a good move on Sceptile, because it has decent BP, and a high-crit ratio, as well as STAB.

[James Bondage]

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Nature: Careful
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
Moveset:
-Force Palm
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Whirlwind

Hariyama counters top OU threats. Heatran and Genesect are absolutely walled by this set (Even Genesect's Thunderbolt does MAX of 22.23% damage, and subsatancially less with any of it's other common moves). Tyranitar also has no answer for this. Cloyster after a Shall Smash needs a 3HKO if it isn't running a Water type STAB (which most aren't). You can out-stall Gliscor, Chansey, Blissey, and Jellicent. You can also switch in reliably on the Lati twins if they are Choice locked into any move except Psychic/Psyshock (or Surf, if they are on a Rain team). Sun teams that have Venusaur and/or whatever other Chlorophyll ability Poke(s) out of the way also get pretty much raped by phasing if Stealth Rock is on the field. Force Palm for STAB off of a 120 base attack, and a 30% paralysis rate. Random Paralysis can really hurt stuff like Landorus-T and Genesect (or pretty much anything else that is Scarfed, or Ground type.)


*Side Note: To be used with hazard support.*

[SkyDriver]

Sceptile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Outrage
- Leaf Blade
- Swords Dance
The way I've set up the item and ability is that Sceptile can get two moves against most Pokemon; Unburden makes Sceptile have the equivalent of 240 Base Power. So even if it goes last on the first go, it's nearly guaranteed go first on the second. In B2W2, Sceptile got some great new techniques. Outrage and DrainPunch are both Move Tutor moves Sceptile can learn this game, and they provide coverage to hit any type at least neutral. You can double Sceptile's attack on the first go with Swords Dance, then land a heavy blow next turn. Leaf Blade is a good move on Sceptile, because it has decent BP, and a high-crit ratio, as well as STAB.

Outrage is no good on a non-Dragon type. Better use Shadow Claw for Ghosts, or go special, w/ Giga Drain-Focus Blast-Dragon Pulse-HP [Ice]

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Nature: Careful
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Moveset:
-Force Palm
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Whirlwind

Hariyama counters top OU threats. Heatran and Genesect are absolutely walled by this set (Even Genesect's Thunderbolt does MAX of 22.23% damage, and subsatancially less with any of it's other common moves). Tyranitar also has no answer for this. Cloyster after a Shall Smash needs a 3HKO if it isn't running a Water type STAB (which most aren't). You can out-stall Gliscor, Chansey, Blissey, and Jellicent. You can also switch in reliably on the Lati twins if they are Choice locked into any move except Psychic/Psyshock (or Surf, if they are on a Rain team). Sun teams that have Venusaur and/or whatever other Chlorophyll ability Poke(s) out of the way also get pretty much raped by phasing if Stealth Rock is on the field. Force Palm for STAB off of a 120 base attack, and a 30% paralysis rate. Random Paralysis can really hurt stuff like Landorus-T and Genesect (or pretty much anything else that is Scarfed, or Ground type.)


*Side Note: To be used with hazard support.*

Seems like a really good set, but how can it really outstall a gliscor? With Poison Heal it'll regain health instead of slow death. There's no chance this Hariyama can beat a Gliscor. It is great to see some underrated pokemon in OU though

[James Bondage]

Seems like a really good set, but how can it really outstall a gliscor? With Poison Heal it'll regain health instead of slow death. There's no chance this Hariyama can beat a Gliscor. It is great to see some underrated pokemon in OU though

Common Gliscor set runs Poison Heal ability and E-quake, Ice Fang, Protect and either Substitute, Roost, or Stealth Rock. My set has WAY more tot PP, especially since PP isn't used from the other moves as Hariyama uses Sleep Talk. Gliscor will Struggle to death, even with Poison Heal, before Hariyama has made it through even half of it's PP in total moves. Only thing that stands a prayer of beatting it is IF Ice Fang gets Freeze Hax, and IF you stay frozen the entire five turns, and IF Earthquake gets either a crit at least oncwe, or max damage rolls four out of five times. (Gliscor's Earthquake only does around 22% damage to Hariyama.

[Blue Harvest]

Hariyama @ Leftovers
Nature: Careful
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpDef
Moveset:
-Force Palm
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Whirlwind

Hariyama counters top OU threats. Heatran and Genesect are absolutely walled by this set (Even Genesect's Thunderbolt does MAX of 22.23% damage, and subsatancially less with any of it's other common moves). Tyranitar also has no answer for this. Cloyster after a Shall Smash needs a 3HKO if it isn't running a Water type STAB (which most aren't). You can out-stall Gliscor, Chansey, Blissey, and Jellicent. You can also switch in reliably on the Lati twins if they are Choice locked into any move except Psychic/Psyshock (or Surf, if they are on a Rain team). Sun teams that have Venusaur and/or whatever other Chlorophyll ability Poke(s) out of the way also get pretty much raped by phasing if Stealth Rock is on the field. Force Palm for STAB off of a 120 base attack, and a 30% paralysis rate. Random Paralysis can really hurt stuff like Landorus-T and Genesect (or pretty much anything else that is Scarfed, or Ground type.)


*Side Note: To be used with hazard support.*

I would never use this set. It isn't good.

For one, Rest / Sleep Talk is utter trash. The moment you Rest you are effectively dead. No one is going to sit there as you Rest/Talk freely, they will switch to a counter and **** you over. Also 3HKOing a Hariyama isn't very hard for anything not named Tyranitar.

Two those EVs are bad. Very bad. By running a + Sp Def nature but with no sp def EVs you aren't taking advantage of any bonus points. Not just that but maxing Hariyama's HP is a terrible idea. Running Impish with 80 HP / 252 Defense / 176 Sp Def takes hits from both spectrum better than your spread. If you don't mind sacrificing like 2% of your physical bulk running Impish with 40 HP / 216 Defense / 252 Special Defense tanks all hits decently.

Also very few of the Pokemon you mentioned are actually beat by your Hariyama. Much of your argument makes no sense or is flat out wrong.

Heatran and Genesect are absolutely walled by this set (Even Genesect's Thunderbolt does MAX of 22.23% damage, and subsatancially less with any of it's other common moves).

Uhh... Thunderbolt does 22% minimum at +0 with no Special Attack EVs. It 3HKOs most of the time. Fair point about it walling Genesect's other moves / Heatran though.

Tyranitar also has no answer for this.

Ok a fighting type beating Tyranitar. This is not new. It is true though, this utterly wrecks all Tyranitar. However Tyranitar isn't exactly an offensive threat anymore.

Cloyster after a Shall Smash needs a 3HKO if it isn't running a Water type STAB (which most aren't).

Enough do that Hariyama isn't a solid enough check. Also Force Palm fails to OHKO even -1 Cloyster while Ice Spear does around 75-80% in two hits. You at worst lose to Cloyster, at best barely beat it but with only a sliver of HP remaining.

You can out-stall Gliscor,

No.

You sort of out stall Sub Toxic Gliscor. Except you don't really, you just sit there until you have to Rest at which point the Gliscor switches to something that can beat you, or otherwise force you out. Once switched out while sleeping Hariyama basically becomes a sitting duck (even with Sleep Talk). Also if Sandstorm is blowing a Critical hit from Earthquake will 3HKO Hariyama, and with 16 PP it's pretty much inevitable. You can Whirlwind Gliscor, but lol who cares it's still alive.

Bulky Swords Dance Gliscor 2HKOs with +2 Earthquake while Force Palm can't even get through Poison Heal recovery.

Taunt Gliscor has literally nothing to fear.

Fling Toxic Orb destroys you with Acrobatics, and forces you to eventually Rest if it hits you with Toxic Orb.

Sub Acrobatics Gliscor OHKOs even at +0.

You do not beat Gliscor, you simply win a 1 on 1 PP stall war with a single Gliscor set. A situation that will never play out unless your opponent is bad, or down to their last Pokemon.

Chansey, Blissey

As with Tyranitar, this is nothing special. You are a Fighting type, congrats. Oh by the way you only 3HKO with Force Palm.

Jellicent

Jellicent run Taunt lol. You can't even touch it.

You can also switch in reliably on the Lati twins if they are Choice locked into any move except Psychic/Psyshock (or Surf, if they are on a Rain team)

Or, you know. Draco Meteor.

Defensive Latias 3HKOs with Dragon Pulse, and 2HKOs after a Calm Mind.

Force Palm does under 18% back.

Sun teams that have Venusaur and/or whatever other Chlorophyll ability Poke(s) out of the way also get pretty much raped by phasing if Stealth Rock is on the field.

Not quite. Sunny Fire Blasts will often 3HKO. Many Sun teams now run Xatu who hard counters this. There is no single Sun team, but they don't have trouble with this. Also any sun team that failed to keep rocks off the field is going to face hell from anything, not just this weird gimmick.

Force Palm for STAB off of a 120 base attack, and a 30% paralysis rate.

This sounds nice until you realize that even with the 120 Attack it is hitting only about as hard as a Tentacruel Scald. You won't even break Jirachi's Substitutes.

If you want to use Hariyama fix the EVs (try one of the spreads I offered) and run something like Force Palm / Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Fire Punch. Hariyama has good bulk and attack to run a "utility counter" set. Attempting Rest / Talk is suicide now adays.

Also don't actually use Hariyama, it isn't very good besides being cool.

[Silvershark]

I been trying to think of a good set for a Sheer Force Rampardos. Here's what I'm currently looking at..

Rampardos @Life Orb
Sheer Force
EVs: Attack and HP
Adamant
-Rock Slide
-Crunch
-Zen Headbut
-Curse

With a Nature + EVs in Attack, I could have a max of 238 Attack at level 50, and a little over 200 HP (as if that matters if I get hit lol..) Using Rock Slide with Sheer Force + Life Orb will boost Rock Slide to 126 power (with removing flinch) + Stab. The Crunch/Zen Headbut will become 135 Power moves. Using Zen Headbut since it can take care of my Fighting weakness and a good portion of Grass type are also part poison so it can also help in those situations. I picked crunch since there was not to many other powerful physical moves that had decent attack that would benefit with sheer force. As far as Curse goes...I really didn't know what else to give him, I was basically thinking of using Superpower for when I really really need it or Head Smash for 150 power + Life orb making it 195 power but can easily kill me in the process since I take half the recoil. I also thought about Rock Polish but decided maybe I shouldn't.

I decided to stick with Curse, since I only do Doubles now so Curse is another good move if, let's say my Partner (or my other pokemon) can knock out all the threats on that turn and to avoid my attack doing nothing since there would be no targets just use curse etc.

I have not made this Rampardos yet so if you have a better idea on moves or where I should EV Train it then let me know.

Curse is completely detrimental altogether as his Rock typing does not help its completely crappy typing and crap defenses. Having a drop in Speed doesn't help at all either, and just worsens the chances of it "sweeping".

If you're really aming to use it in doubles, your best bet is Adamant Rock Polish with a Pokemon to use Follow Me. It allows for completely safe set-up turn to boost its speed to a good amount and just hit everything superhard.

Yea I see what you mean. At least I'll have a point in using my Amoongus lol. Thanks for the information. I think Rampardos is going to be fun to play. Now I just need to find a DW one lol.

Using Rock Polish will require dropping Hp for more speed to get up to a good sweeping speed. And even Follow Me/Rage Powder won't protect it from the Surfs, Muddy Waters, and Earthquakes that could wreck Rampardos, or Fake Out for that matter, since you don't have Protect, a move that should be used on all sets in doubles unless it's a choice set or if you really can't spare the move-slot. I say since you already have an Amoongus; just trade out Curse for Protect, Adamant for Brave, and run it on a Trick Room team. And maybe switch out the Life Orb for a Focus Sash. Less power, but those incoming Bullet/Mach Punches will hurt.

[James Bondage]

I would never use this set. It isn't good.

For one, Rest / Sleep Talk is utter trash. The moment you Rest you are effectively dead. No one is going to sit there as you Rest/Talk freely, they will switch to a counter and **** you over. Also 3HKOing a Hariyama isn't very hard for anything not named Tyranitar.

Two those EVs are bad. Very bad. By running a + Sp Def nature but with no sp def EVs you aren't taking advantage of any bonus points. Not just that but maxing Hariyama's HP is a terrible idea. Running Impish with 80 HP / 252 Defense / 176 Sp Def takes hits from both spectrum better than your spread. If you don't mind sacrificing like 2% of your physical bulk running Impish with 40 HP / 216 Defense / 252 Special Defense tanks all hits decently.

Also very few of the Pokemon you mentioned are actually beat by your Hariyama. Much of your argument makes no sense or is flat out wrong.

Uhh... Thunderbolt does 22% minimum at +0 with no Special Attack EVs. It 3HKOs most of the time. Fair point about it walling Genesect's other moves / Heatran though.

Most people run Naive with Max Speed and Scarf, so Max SpAtk EVs in SpAtk aren't worth your mentioning. Especially since Genesect's mostly used as a lead and a scout, and mostly uses U-Turn.

Ok a fighting type beating Tyranitar. This is not new. It is true though, this utterly wrecks all Tyranitar. However Tyranitar isn't exactly an offensive threat anymore.

CBTar is still used frequently.

Enough do that Hariyama isn't a solid enough check. Also Force Palm fails to OHKO even -1 Cloyster while Ice Spear does around 75-80% in two hits. You at worst lose to Cloyster, at best barely beat it but with only a sliver of HP remaining.

Not factoring in Thick Fat, are you? Even after a Shell Smash, and even if Cloyster gets a max damage roll with all five hits from Icicle Spear, each hit will only be at 8% damage.

You sort of out stall Sub Toxic Gliscor. Except you don't really, you just sit there until you have to Rest at which point the Gliscor switches to something that can beat you, or otherwise force you out. Once switched out while sleeping Hariyama basically becomes a sitting duck (even with Sleep Talk). Also if Sandstorm is blowing a Critical hit from Earthquake will 3HKO Hariyama, and with 16 PP it's pretty much inevitable. You can Whirlwind Gliscor, but lol who cares it's still alive.

Bulky Swords Dance Gliscor 2HKOs with +2 Earthquake while Force Palm can't even get through Poison Heal recovery.

Taunt Gliscor has literally nothing to fear.

Fling Toxic Orb destroys you with Acrobatics, and forces you to eventually Rest if it hits you with Toxic Orb.

Sub Acrobatics Gliscor OHKOs even at +0.

You do not beat Gliscor, you simply win a 1 on 1 PP stall war with a single Gliscor set. A situation that will never play out unless your opponent is bad, or down to their last Pokemon.

I'm not dumb enough to actually stay in on Gliscor until I know what set it is running. I am aware it has other sets.

As with Tyranitar, this is nothing special. You are a Fighting type, congrats. Oh by the way you only 3HKO with Force Palm.

As it maybe does 25% damage to Hariyama. Fair trade imo.

Jellicent run Taunt lol. You can't even touch it.

I haven't seen anyone run Taunt on one of those in a couple of months on both Showdown, and PO2. Maybe I'm just lucky? If I am just llucky though, you have a viable point on this one.

Or, you know. Draco Meteor.

Defensive Latias 3HKOs with Dragon Pulse, and 2HKOs after a Calm Mind.

Force Palm does under 18% back.

As for Latis, after their SpAtk drops from Draco Meteor, they must 3HKO.

Not quite. Sunny Fire Blasts will often 3HKO. Many Sun teams now run Xatu who hard counters this. There is no single Sun team, but they don't have trouble with this. Also any sun team that failed to keep rocks off the field is going to face hell from anything, not just this weird gimmick.

With a sun boost, yes, however, if weather is neutralized, even a V-Create from Victini needs a 3HKO.

This sounds nice until you realize that even with the 120 Attack it is hitting only about as hard as a Tentacruel Scald. You won't even break Jirachi's Substitutes.

If you want to use Hariyama fix the EVs (try one of the spreads I offered) and run something like Force Palm / Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Fire Punch. Hariyama has good bulk and attack to run a "utility counter" set. Attempting Rest / Talk is suicide now adays.

Also don't actually use Hariyama, it isn't very good besides being cool.

The EVs were a typo. I fixed them in my OP. They were suppossed to be max SpAtk. And many times you say 3HKO. Rest only lasts two turns though. That's why this is used on a stall team. With hazards on the field, and the likelyhood of Whirlwind being called by Sleep Talk before Hariyama is actually KO'd, I'm not seeing any issues here. I just keep resting away damage, and switching out versus whatever threatens Hariyama.

Really, you speak as if I am new to competitive battling, and I wouldn't switch out. Your comment on Jelllicent was really the only potentially viable point you made.



Since you only sleep for two turns, and most things need a 3HKO versus Hariyama, with the hazards support I spoke of, it is more likely than not that the oppossing Pkemon will be removed by Whirlwind and rack up residual damage before they do anything to Hariyama that is worth talking about.

[Blue Harvest]

Most people run Naive with Max Speed and Scarf, so Max SpAtk EVs in SpAtk aren't worth your mentioning. Especially since Genesect's mostly used as a lead and a scout, and mostly uses U-Turn.

No lol, sorry. Here is a list of every single Smogon OU team posted within the last month that received at least a half dozen "likes" and ran Genesect.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471684
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471010
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472384
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471606
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472238
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471968
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472437
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472159

Know what literally every single one of them has in common? Max or near max Special Attack. Not to mention Genesect's ability with guarantees a 3HKO even at +1 with 0 SA EVs.

I'm not arguing that Hariyama doesn't beat Genesect, just that your calculation was horribly wrong.

CBTar is still used frequently.

Yeah but you missed my point in that a Fighting type beating Tyranitar is not special. A lot of Pokemon can switch in on Tyranitar.

Not factoring in Thick Fat, are you? Even after a Shell Smash, and even if Cloyster gets a max damage roll with all five hits from Icicle Spear, each hit will only be at 8% damage.

I did, and when I said "Ice Spear does around 75-80% in two hits" I was correct. Two hits.

I'm not dumb enough to actually stay in on Gliscor until I know what set it is running. I am aware it has other sets.

You don't actually beat any sets. You pray for no crit against the SubRooster or flat out lose to literally every other set.

As it maybe does 25% damage to Hariyama. Fair trade imo.

Fighting type = beats Blissey. Eviolite Mankey beats Blissey / Chansey / Tyranitar, but that doesn't make it good.

I haven't seen anyone run Taunt on one of those in a couple of months on both Showdown, and PO2. Maybe I'm just lucky? If I am just llucky though, you have a viable point on this one.

Taunt is a staple on Jellicent. It has been since the early days of B/W. Some run Shadow Ball > Taunt, but it isn't very common.

As for Latis, after their SpAtk drops from Draco Meteor, they must 3HKO.

Thus, Hariyama can't switch in on Draco Meteor.

With a sun boost, yes, however, if weather is neutralized, even a V-Create from Victini needs a 3HKO.

So basically what you're saying is that Hariyama does well against Sun teams when Venusaur is dead, Stealth Rocks are down, and the sun isn't shining. lol.

The EVs were a typo. I fixed them in my OP. They were suppossed to be max SpAtk. And many times you say 3HKO. Rest only lasts two turns though. That's why this is used on a stall team. With hazards on the field, and the likelyhood of Whirlwind being called by Sleep Talk before Hariyama is actually KO'd, I'm not seeing any issues here. I just keep resting away damage, and switching out versus whatever threatens Hariyama.

... max Sp Attack...

Obviously meant Sp def but congrats, with that EV spread Gliscor 3HKOs you in Sandstorm, CB Tyranitar 2HKOs with Stone Edge, Latios still 2HKOs with Specs Draco Meteor, and Latias still beats you one on one.

Do you understand the new sleep mechanics? The sleep timer resets every time you switch out, so the moment you have to Rest you are effectively dead.

Really, you speak as if I am new to competitive battling, and I wouldn't switch out. Your comment on Jelllicent was really the only potentially viable point you made.

Except that all my points were viable, and you completely ignored what I said about the bad EV spread, bad Resttalk, failure to reliably beat much more than Tyranitar and Blissey, failure to be any sort of offensive presence, and... eh I'm sure there's more. Sorry but it isn't a good set. Oh you also ignored my EV spread and moveset changes which might actually make this set usable.

Since you only sleep for two turns, and most things need a 3HKO versus Hariyama, with the hazards support I spoke of, it is more likely than not that the oppossing Pkemon will be removed by Whirlwind and rack up residual damage before they do anything to Hariyama that is worth talking about.

What happens when your opponent isn't bad.

[James Bondage]

No lol, sorry. Here is a list of every single Smogon OU team posted within the last month that received at least a half dozen "likes" and ran Genesect.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471684
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471010
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472384
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471606
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472238
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471968
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472437
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472159

Know what literally every single one of them has in common? Max or near max Special Attack. Not to mention Genesect's ability with guarantees a 3HKO even at +1 with 0 SA EVs.

I'm not arguing that Hariyama doesn't beat Genesect, just that your calculation was horribly wrong.



Yeah but you missed my point in that a Fighting type beating Tyranitar is not special. A lot of Pokemon can switch in on Tyranitar.



I did, and when I said "Ice Spear does around 75-80% in two hits" I was correct. Two hits.



You don't actually beat any sets. You pray for no crit against the SubRooster or flat out lose to literally every other set.



Fighting type = beats Blissey. Eviolite Mankey beats Blissey / Chansey / Tyranitar, but that doesn't make it good.



Taunt is a staple on Jellicent. It has been since the early days of B/W. Some run Shadow Ball > Taunt, but it isn't very common.



Thus, Hariyama can't switch in on Draco Meteor.



So basically what you're saying is that Hariyama does well against Sun teams when Venusaur is dead, Stealth Rocks are down, and the sun isn't shining. lol.



... max Sp Attack...

Obviously meant Sp def but congrats, with that EV spread Gliscor 3HKOs you in Sandstorm, CB Tyranitar 2HKOs with Stone Edge, Latios still 2HKOs with Specs Draco Meteor, and Latias still beats you one on one.

Do you understand the new sleep mechanics? The sleep timer resets every time you switch out, so the moment you have to Rest you are effectively dead.



Except that all my points were viable, and you completely ignored what I said about the bad EV spread, bad Resttalk, failure to reliably beat much more than Tyranitar and Blissey, failure to be any sort of offensive presence, and... eh I'm sure there's more. Sorry but it isn't a good set. Oh you also ignored my EV spread and moveset changes which might actually make this set usable.



What happens when your opponent isn't bad.

The new sleep mechanics work in Hariyama's favor. Two turns of sleep. I switched out, the count restsets, and you still sleep two turns, no matter how many turns you have already slept. I know how it works.

Note.....TWO TURNS!!! Everything you mentioned needs three turns to KO Hariyama. This math could be done by a first grader.

And CBTar only 2HKO's with rocks or a layer of Spikes.

And as far as your comment on the sun team goes, of course I know that's is a lot of "ifs", however, I meake sure Hariyama is on a Sand Team, so as to keep weather in my own favor, so I do get past all of those "ifs". Still viable!

I don't match Hariyama versus any Gliscor set. As I said before, I switch OUT, and see what set they are running. Since Sub/Roost is the most common that I have seen....Still...No problem.

[AB2]

lol who cares u bad

[James Bondage]

lol who cares u bad

Nice to see your amazing singles rate and your incredible ammount of knowledge. ^_^

Hope to see more from you in the future.

[AB2]

Nice to see that you're still bad. Try using a damage calculator correctly next time thanks kiddo. Btw Hariyama is bad Blue Harvest is right, this isn't DPP UU.

[Blue Harvest]

The new sleep mechanics work in Hariyama's favor. Two turns of sleep. I switched out, the count restsets, and you still sleep two turns, no matter how many turns you have already slept. I know how it works.

lol and how long do you think Hariyama will last without the ability to Rest. How much damage is it doing with a weak attack that is only about as strong as Tentacruel's Scald.

Note.....TWO TURNS!!!Everything you mentioned needs three turns to KO Hariyama. This math could be done by a first grader.

Everything? No, the things it is supposed to counter 3HKOs it. Everything else 1-2HKOs.

And CBTar only 2HKO's with rocks or a layer of Spikes.

I don't care if it does 40% or 60%, it's still taking a shitload from a Pokemon it is supposed to counter.

And as far as your comment on the sun team goes, of course I know that's is a lot of "ifs", however, I meake sure Hariyama is on a Sand Team, so as to keep weather in my own favor, so I do get past all of those "ifs". Still viable!

lol... wait did you just say...

however, I meake sure Hariyama is on a Sand Team

... no, NO do not do that. Rofl, any possible use Hariyama has is being destroyed if you do that.

In clear weather your opponent has to do around 37.5% per turn to overpower Rest + Leftovers. In Sandstorm They only have to do 33-34. You lose a total of 13% of your durability by trying to sleep in sandstorm. Not to mention you gain no HP on double switches, or by being U-turned in.

I don't match Hariyama versus any Gliscor set. As I said before, I switch OUT, and see what set they are running. Since Sub/Roost is the most common that I have seen....Still...No problem.

You said in the OP that it "out stalls" Gliscor. It does not.

So ok, besides Blissey / Chansey / Tyranitar / Heatran / sort of Genesect what is this set actually good for? If you want a bulky Fighting type in sandstorm that beats those Pokemon just run Terrakion lol.

Hey how about instead of defending your sets flaws as though it is the second coming of Arceus why not accept it being bad and try to fix it?

Impish with 4 HP / 252 Defense / 252 Special Defense takes hits about as well Specially and MUCH better physically. Run Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Fire Punch / Force Palm. Doing so will let you check or beat everything you said without being absolutely ****ing useless against a good player. Or run Close Combat > Force Palm and Adamant with 252 Attack and the rest in defenses. This will let you actually hurt something instead of being a sitting duck. Oh and don't use it in Sandstorm ever.

[James Bondage]

Nice to see that you're still bad. Try using a damage calculator correctly next time thanks kiddo. Btw Hariyama is bad Blue Harvest is right, this isn't DPP UU.

This is the damage calculator I used...

And flamming is flamming. Try telling me why it really is bad, maybe? Use your own opinion, not BH's.

*EDIT*

So ok, besides Blissey / Chansey / Tyranitar / Heatran / sort of Genesect what is this set actually good for? If you want a bulky Fighting type in sandstorm that beats those Pokemon just run Terrakion lol.

Hey how about instead of defending your sets flaws as though it is the second coming of Arceus why not accept it being bad and try to fix it?

Impish with 4 HP / 252 Defense / 252 Special Defense takes hits about as well Specially and MUCH better physically. Run Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Fire Punch / Force Palm. Doing so will let you check or beat everything you said without being absolutely ****ing useless against a good player. Or run Close Combat > Force Palm and Adamant with 252 Attack and the rest in defenses. This will let you actually hurt something instead of being a sitting duck. Oh and don't use it in Sandstorm ever.

Three of the listed Pokes are top ten in usage of OU Standard for the month of August.

Otherwise, I am not saying I won't try your spread/set, nor did I anywhere in my posts. I will try it out. I am only saying mine is also viable. Your set may very well be better.

And I use Terrakion for Speed (Scarf set, mostly, even though it can tank). I'd prefer Conkledurr though if I was looking for bulk, or Breloom if I was looking for survivability before I'd consider Terrakion.

[AB2]

lol and how long do you think Hariyama will last without the ability to Rest. How much damage is it doing with a weak attack that is only about as strong as Tentacruel's Scald.



Everything? No, the things it is supposed to counter 3HKOs it. Everything else 1-2HKOs.



I don't care if it does 40% or 60%, it's still taking a shitload from a Pokemon it is supposed to counter.



lol... wait did you just say...



... no, NO do not do that. Rofl, any possible use Hariyama has is being destroyed if you do that.

In clear weather your opponent has to do around 37.5% per turn to overpower Rest + Leftovers. In Sandstorm They only have to do 33-34. You lose a total of 13% of your durability by trying to sleep in sandstorm. Not to mention you gain no HP on double switches, or by being U-turned in.



You said in the OP that it "out stalls" Gliscor. It does not.

So ok, besides Blissey / Chansey / Tyranitar / Heatran / sort of Genesect what is this set actually good for? If you want a bulky Fighting type in sandstorm that beats those Pokemon just run Terrakion lol.

Hey how about instead of defending your sets flaws as though it is the second coming of Arceus why not accept it being bad and try to fix it?

Impish with 4 HP / 252 Defense / 252 Special Defense takes hits about as well Specially and MUCH better physically. Run Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Fire Punch / Force Palm. Doing so will let you check or beat everything you said without being absolutely ****ing useless against a good player. Or run Close Combat > Force Palm and Adamant with 252 Attack and the rest in defenses. This will let you actually hurt something instead of being a sitting duck. Oh and don't use it in Sandstorm ever.

No lol, sorry. Here is a list of every single Smogon OU team posted within the last month that received at least a half dozen "likes" and ran Genesect.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471684
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471010
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472384
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471606
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472238
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3471968
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472437
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3472159

Know what literally every single one of them has in common? Max or near max Special Attack. Not to mention Genesect's ability with guarantees a 3HKO even at +1 with 0 SA EVs.

I'm not arguing that Hariyama doesn't beat Genesect, just that your calculation was horribly wrong.



Yeah but you missed my point in that a Fighting type beating Tyranitar is not special. A lot of Pokemon can switch in on Tyranitar.



I did, and when I said "Ice Spear does around 75-80% in two hits" I was correct. Two hits.



You don't actually beat any sets. You pray for no crit against the SubRooster or flat out lose to literally every other set.



Fighting type = beats Blissey. Eviolite Mankey beats Blissey / Chansey / Tyranitar, but that doesn't make it good.



Taunt is a staple on Jellicent. It has been since the early days of B/W. Some run Shadow Ball > Taunt, but it isn't very common.



Thus, Hariyama can't switch in on Draco Meteor.



So basically what you're saying is that Hariyama does well against Sun teams when Venusaur is dead, Stealth Rocks are down, and the sun isn't shining. lol.



... max Sp Attack...

Obviously meant Sp def but congrats, with that EV spread Gliscor 3HKOs you in Sandstorm, CB Tyranitar 2HKOs with Stone Edge, Latios still 2HKOs with Specs Draco Meteor, and Latias still beats you one on one.

Do you understand the new sleep mechanics? The sleep timer resets every time you switch out, so the moment you have to Rest you are effectively dead.



Except that all my points were viable, and you completely ignored what I said about the bad EV spread, bad Resttalk, failure to reliably beat much more than Tyranitar and Blissey, failure to be any sort of offensive presence, and... eh I'm sure there's more. Sorry but it isn't a good set. Oh you also ignored my EV spread and moveset changes which might actually make this set usable.



What happens when your opponent isn't bad.

I would never use this set. It isn't good.

For one, Rest / Sleep Talk is utter trash. The moment you Rest you are effectively dead. No one is going to sit there as you Rest/Talk freely, they will switch to a counter and **** you over. Also 3HKOing a Hariyama isn't very hard for anything not named Tyranitar.

Two those EVs are bad. Very bad. By running a + Sp Def nature but with no sp def EVs you aren't taking advantage of any bonus points. Not just that but maxing Hariyama's HP is a terrible idea. Running Impish with 80 HP / 252 Defense / 176 Sp Def takes hits from both spectrum better than your spread. If you don't mind sacrificing like 2% of your physical bulk running Impish with 40 HP / 216 Defense / 252 Special Defense tanks all hits decently.

Also very few of the Pokemon you mentioned are actually beat by your Hariyama. Much of your argument makes no sense or is flat out wrong.



Uhh... Thunderbolt does 22% minimum at +0 with no Special Attack EVs. It 3HKOs most of the time. Fair point about it walling Genesect's other moves / Heatran though.



Ok a fighting type beating Tyranitar. This is not new. It is true though, this utterly wrecks all Tyranitar. However Tyranitar isn't exactly an offensive threat anymore.



Enough do that Hariyama isn't a solid enough check. Also Force Palm fails to OHKO even -1 Cloyster while Ice Spear does around 75-80% in two hits. You at worst lose to Cloyster, at best barely beat it but with only a sliver of HP remaining.



No.

You sort of out stall Sub Toxic Gliscor. Except you don't really, you just sit there until you have to Rest at which point the Gliscor switches to something that can beat you, or otherwise force you out. Once switched out while sleeping Hariyama basically becomes a sitting duck (even with Sleep Talk). Also if Sandstorm is blowing a Critical hit from Earthquake will 3HKO Hariyama, and with 16 PP it's pretty much inevitable. You can Whirlwind Gliscor, but lol who cares it's still alive.

Bulky Swords Dance Gliscor 2HKOs with +2 Earthquake while Force Palm can't even get through Poison Heal recovery.

Taunt Gliscor has literally nothing to fear.

Fling Toxic Orb destroys you with Acrobatics, and forces you to eventually Rest if it hits you with Toxic Orb.

Sub Acrobatics Gliscor OHKOs even at +0.

You do not beat Gliscor, you simply win a 1 on 1 PP stall war with a single Gliscor set. A situation that will never play out unless your opponent is bad, or down to their last Pokemon.



As with Tyranitar, this is nothing special. You are a Fighting type, congrats. Oh by the way you only 3HKO with Force Palm.



Jellicent run Taunt lol. You can't even touch it.



Or, you know. Draco Meteor.

Defensive Latias 3HKOs with Dragon Pulse, and 2HKOs after a Calm Mind.

Force Palm does under 18% back.



Not quite. Sunny Fire Blasts will often 3HKO. Many Sun teams now run Xatu who hard counters this. There is no single Sun team, but they don't have trouble with this. Also any sun team that failed to keep rocks off the field is going to face hell from anything, not just this weird gimmick.



This sounds nice until you realize that even with the 120 Attack it is hitting only about as hard as a Tentacruel Scald. You won't even break Jirachi's Substitutes.

If you want to use Hariyama fix the EVs (try one of the spreads I offered) and run something like Force Palm / Ice Punch / Stone Edge / Fire Punch. Hariyama has good bulk and attack to run a "utility counter" set. Attempting Rest / Talk is suicide now adays.

Also don't actually use Hariyama, it isn't very good besides being cool.

My opinion is the same as the might Blue Harvest's.