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  1. #5261
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    Quote Originally Posted by varanus_komodoensis View Post
    Are we talking about competitively or in-game? In-game, Charizard can be pretty beast. Competitively, in BW, Charizard is in the Never-Used tier. Its stats really aren't all that bad, but it has pretty terrible typing and it loses 50% of its HP to Stealth Rock, which is a common competitive set-up.
    Honestly, there has never been anything truly wrong with Charizard beyond the Stealth Rock thing. It certainly has the stats to be in UU (although it is definitely UU and no higher). Its problem is just that it was always outclassed by Moltres in terms of anything either of them could potentially do, and when SR came out last generation, it was the final nail in the coffin. Charizard has always been one of the flagship arguments casuals try to level at Smogon because it has such a long history as a fan favorite and they don't understand how tiering works. Smogon has always actually been very kind to Charizard by placing it in tiers where it actually stands a fighting chance.

    In regards to the original question however, Charizard gained Solar Power through the Dream World this generation, which finally gives it a leg up on Moltres. As such, I'd say he's "holding up" quite nicely; better than he has in several generations actually. Charizard can be a pretty accomplished sweeper even in the higher tiers if he gets in safely and the sun is up (and stays up obviously). You can read more here.

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  2. #5262

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    In regards to the original question however, Charizard gained Solar Power through the Dream World this generation, which finally gives it a leg up on Moltres. As such, I'd say he's "holding up" quite nicely; better than he has in several generations actually.
    moltres still breaks walls just as well, if not better, than charizard. if we're talking about relevant tiers, moltres now has hurricane to beat the only thing that used to reliably counter it in ru (aside from when using the rare sunnybeamer set) which is slowking. of course charizard can do the same with solarbeam and sun itself can be powerful, but it's too unreliable in lower tiers aside from the self-sufficient weather users to be as effective.
    it's difficult having to set up sun for a 'mon that doesn't have chlorophyll and is prone to being revenged easily, especially with being susceptible to stealth rock.

    if we're talking about higher tiers, then it's not any easier. politoed is only 3hko'd by hidden power grass, and only offensive variants are 2hko'd with hp grass but hazards are necessary to ensure it. regardless, offensive variants are likely choiced in some way, so a scarfer can immediately threaten charizard out.
    i suppose charizard can work under certain circumstances, but base 100 speed is outsped by too many things that threaten with a ko which is why scarf is probably recommended? i'm unsure, because i'm not huge on ou and charizard is rare anyway.

    but in general, fifth generation gave it a nice boost in solar power, but that just requires additional support in conjunction with its issue with stealth rock and its relative frailty.

    and if we're talking about the tier it resides in, nu, lol. cinccino.

  3. #5263
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    I have a question: What is a good check/counter to Mienshao and Scrafty in UU?

  4. #5264
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMetalOverlord View Post
    I have a question: What is a good check/counter to Mienshao and Scrafty in UU?
    Crobat outspeeds both and probably your best bet with a 4x resistance to Fighting. Inner Focus protects you from Mienshao's Fake Out.

    Mismagius, Chandelure, Dusclops, and Frosslass are immune to Fighting but Scrafty can be a challenge to both of them.

    Bronzong is neutral to both Fighting and Dark, so you could try to Gyro Ball them to death.

    Togekiss usually carries Air Slash and offers Paralysis support. Xatu often has Psychic as an attacking move.

    Slowbro can take Fighting attacks but has trouble with Scrafty unless Scald burn (and then Shed Skin might ruin that too).

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  5. #5265
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    In regards to the original question however, Charizard gained Solar Power through the Dream World this generation, which finally gives it a leg up on Moltres. As such, I'd say he's "holding up" quite nicely; better than he has in several generations actually. Charizard can be a pretty accomplished sweeper even in the higher tiers if he gets in safely and the sun is up (and stays up obviously). You can read more here.
    Honestly, I run SP Charizard with a Scarf in the sun, and it can sweep entire teams once the opponent no longer has Flash Fire or a weather inducer. I think it's pretty grand


    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    Crobat outspeeds both and probably your best bet with a 4x resistance to Fighting. Inner Focus protects you from Mienshao's Fake Out.

    Mismagius, Chandelure, Dusclops, and Frosslass are immune to Fighting but Scrafty can be a challenge to both of them.

    Bronzong is neutral to both Fighting and Dark, so you could try to Gyro Ball them to death.

    Togekiss usually carries Air Slash and offers Paralysis support. Xatu often has Psychic as an attacking move.

    Slowbro can take Fighting attacks but has trouble with Scrafty unless Scald burn (and then Shed Skin might ruin that too).
    Also, Sableye cripples them pretty well with Wisp.
    Last edited by thatjeremykid; 16th July 2012 at 3:16 PM.
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  6. #5266
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMetalOverlord View Post
    I have a question: What is a good check/counter to Mienshao and Scrafty in UU?
    Heracross counters Scrafty without breaking a sweat. It's worth mentioning that he is the only pokemon in UU that resists Scrafty's STABs as Toxicroak is in OU. In fact, it may be the only hard counter to Scrafty because of it's amazing STAB combo.

    Slowbro is can eat up all of Mienshao's moves apart from U-turn and burn it with Scald. Dusclops is even better, taking little damage from any of it's moves and burning it with Will-o-Wisp. In fact, all Ghost types do quite well as if Mienshao uses Hi Jump Kick, it'll lose half it's health because of the moves' side effects.
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  7. #5267
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatjeremykid View Post
    Also, Sableye cripples them pretty well with Wisp.
    Sableye of all things? I understand it has Prankster, but it lacks the bulk to withstand moves.
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  8. #5268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    Sableye of all things? I understand it has Prankster, but it lacks the bulk to withstand moves.
    yeah, but what are scrafty or mienshao going to do to it once they're burned?
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  9. #5269
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    Does anyone know a Politoed set that will counter Abomasnow.

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  10. #5270

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatjeremykid View Post
    yeah, but what are scrafty or mienshao going to do to it once they're burned?
    they wouldn't stay in to begin with. one-on-one situation, sableye definitely wins, but it's horrible against offensive teams in general. there's enough in uu that is immune to will-o-wisp or does not mind the burn and are able to threaten back with a ko.

    but yes, you're right. sableye counters scrafty and mienshao.
    Quote Originally Posted by drizzleboy12 View Post
    Does anyone know a Politoed set that will counter Abomasnow.
    there is no set that counters abomasnow. focus blast on an offensive set makes politoed a check to abomasnow at best, but that's only if you get it on the switch.
    Last edited by locket; 17th July 2012 at 2:16 AM.

  11. #5271
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    Quote Originally Posted by drizzleboy12 View Post
    Does anyone know a Politoed set that will counter Abomasnow.
    The problem here is that Politoed is a Water-type, and Abomasnow is Grass/Ice, so Politoed already has the disadvantage. Plus, most Abomasnow usually carry Wood Hammer, which will almost always OHKO Politoed. What Politoed has going for it is that it's faster than Abomasnow, but most Politoed need their EVs in Defense and HP rather than Speed. If Abomasnow is Scarfed, which many are, Politoed doesn't stand a chance unless it also has 252 EVs in Speed and is also Scarfed. Abomasnow that are Scarfed will produce Hail first, and you will change the weather to rain, so that works to your advantage - but Abomasnow that you are most likely to defeat, the ones that aren't Scarfed, are slower and therefore will produce Hail after you produce Rain, putting you at a disadvantage. I'm not always the best at making these movesets, but you could try this, and just hope that Abomasnow isn't Scarfed when you face it:

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Bold
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD

    Hypnosis (use this first to incapacitate Abomasnow)
    Focus Blast (Abomasnow is weak to Fighting)/HP Fire (4x weakness to Fire, but this HP is difficult to get)
    Surf/Scald
    Ice Beam/Protect


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  12. #5272
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    Ok thanks. but one more question Is this a good moveset for sableye.

    Sableye @Focus sash
    Prankster
    Jolly
    252 HP 252 Att 4 Spd
    -Night shade/Sucker punch
    -Will-o-wisp
    -Confuse ray
    -Taunt

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  13. #5273
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    Quote Originally Posted by drizzleboy12 View Post
    Ok thanks. but one more question Is this a good moveset for sableye.

    Sableye @Focus sash
    Prankster
    Jolly
    252 HP 252 Att 4 Spd
    -Night shade/Sucker punch
    -Will-o-wisp
    -Confuse ray
    -Taunt
    Focus Sash isn't a bad idea; with it, a normal OHKO move won't kill you, so you'll have the ability to get another move in before Sableye meets his demise. Leftovers is the other option. Sableye with Prankster is used almost solely as a status-inducer and annoyer, so there is no need at all to put EVs in Attack. They need to be in HP, Defense, and Special Defense so Sableye will stay alive longer. Also, since Sableye gets priority with Prankster, you don't need to invest in Speed because you always go first. So you don't need Jolly, you need a nature that increases Special Defense or Defense. I recommend Careful. I would also change out Confuse Ray to Recover, since Sableye really needs it. Night Shade isn't a bad Attack choice, but Foul Play I personally think is better. Foul Play uses the opponent's Attack stat rather than yours to calculate the damage done. So since you can't put any EVs into Attack for Sableye, Foul Play is a good Attack choice. Will-O-Wisp and Taunt are great choices.

    So this is what I'd do:

    Sableye@ Focus Sash
    Prankster
    Careful
    252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD

    Foul Play/Night Shade
    Will-O-Wisp
    Recover
    Taunt


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  14. #5274
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    Default Snorlax

    What is a good moveset for Snorlax? I would appreciate it if you also tell me the items that they should hold and what ev's and nature they should have.

  15. #5275
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    Quote Originally Posted by buy1tofun View Post
    What is a good moveset for Snorlax? I would appreciate it if you also tell me the items that they should hold and what ev's and nature they should have.
    There are several viable ways to run Snorlax and which one you should pick depends on your team and the role you want it to play. You can read some of the most common sets here, but which one you should use really depends. If you ever have a similar question, Smogon is a good place to go for a first estimate. After that however, you should refine it yourself based on your own style and how it would work on your team.

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  16. #5276
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    This is a stupid question but what tier is Durant in even though it is in BL2? is it UU or something.

  17. #5277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    This is a stupid question but what tier is Durant in even though it is in BL2? is it UU or something.
    You answered your own question; Durant is BL2, which is a completely legitimate, albeit small, tier. It can be used in BL2, UU, BL, OU or Ubers, and cannot be used in RU or NU.

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  18. #5278
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    its banned from ru, making it uu and above.

    my question: i have always had trouble making hail teams, for some reason. i want to make a dual sand/hail, after the success of my first dual sand/rain. are there any necessities that need checked? i.e. water types for sand, fire for hail, stuff like that. im just not familiar with hail at all, and would appreciate a simple guideline to start me off. or some shitlikethat



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  19. #5279
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    You answered your own question; Durant is BL2, which is a completely legitimate, albeit small, tier. It can be used in BL2, UU, BL, OU or Ubers, and cannot be used in RU or NU.
    Thanks for answering

  20. #5280

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosBlizzard View Post
    You answered your own question; Durant is BL2, which is a completely legitimate, albeit small, tier. It can be used in BL2, UU, BL, OU or Ubers, and cannot be used in RU or NU.
    just for clarification, bl2 is an ru banlist, not a tier.

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