Official Serebii 5th Gen Tier List & Standard Rules Discussion Thread

[d0nut]

I'm not really experienced with Pokemon abbreviations so... what's PO? : o

PO stand for Pokemon Online, which is a simulator people can use to battle via computer rather than using DS.

How one would create Lightningrod Seaking? Since its Attack stat is better, but LR powers up SpAtk. =(

The Electric immunity is always nice, but if you want to make use of the SpA boost, you might just fit Hydro Pump on its moveset (which isn't that hard since its movepool kinda sucks anyway.) Hydro Pump could be useful for if you want to break down any physical walls in your way.

[Primera Stark]

Oh wow, I posted in wrong thread. Sorry about that.

[iShock]

Why isn't Kyurem uber? Seriously, WHAT THE HECK!!!! 125/130/90/130/90/95... Last time I checked those stats deserved top-tier OUness and maybe even mid-UBERITY... O_o
If Kyurem isn't Uber then how are Reshiram and Zekrom any better and get to go to UBERity?

[SomeoneIGuess]

Kyurem has:

A @%^*( Movepool
A )@%^&*() Typing

Thus, no Uber.

Reshiram has Flame Charge to boost speed, Zekrom is the Uber's Haxorus. Kyurem decided to go mixed but failed.

[iShock]

What tiers would Genesect, the musketeers (Keldeo) and Meloetta be in?

[SomeoneIGuess]

Genesect: OU.
Keldeo: UU... Movepool sucks.
Meloetta: UU... Movepool too. Eh, whoops. Look at the dex. OU. BL. Too slow, unless it resorts to Relic Song which only lasts until you switch. Probably gonna mess up UU if it runs Relic Song + A Couple of Physical moves though.

[d0nut]

Kyurem will easily be BL, though its typing kinda blows, as it undermines its decent defenses since Ice is a terrible type, and Dragon and Ice have pretty similar coverage so it isn't great offensively either. Its Speed is just below acceptable also and most other Dragons outspeed it. In UU though, it is currently uncounterable, except maybe from Chansey but even then, it might be mixed.

Genesect: OU.
Keldeo: UU... Movepool sucks.
Meloetta: UU... Movepool too. Eh, whoops. Look at the dex. OU. BL. Too slow, unless it resorts to Relic Song which only lasts until you switch. Probably gonna mess up UU if it runs Relic Song + A Couple of Physical moves though.

Genesect will be an easy OU, though you really underestimate Keldeo. Having played against it on other servers I've found that its actually an excellant Calm Minder despite its limited movepool. It also has Taunt so it can deal with stall fairly well also. Keldeo will be OU, I'm pretty sure of that. Meloetta though, eh, its just a generic Psychic so we'll see how far it goes.

[iShock]

Sorry, I also meant the rest of the musketeers... my bad -_-'

[d0nut]

Sorry, I also meant the rest of the musketeers... my bad -_-'

Terrakion and Virizion are OU, while Cobalion is UU.

Speaking of UU, what does everyone think will be banned this first round? Right now Drought, Kyurem, and ShellPassing look to be the most three broken things, but Victini, Mew, Chansey, and a few other things have a good chance to go also.

[iShock]

Kyurem? Broken? O_O you have a vivid imagination... ban Victini V-create Shellpass :3

[PoignantLyrics]

On the topic of current UU bans, I would struggle to say both Kyurem and Victini are broken without their respective weather, as they both lose a vital power boost (Blizzard for Kyurem, and the power boost to V-Create for Victini). Although, I can see them banning Kyurem rather than Hail, as banning Hail removes an entire viable playstyle from the metagame, while Hail isn't really that bad without Kyurem. Drought, on the other hand, is ridiculous. The amount of Pokemon which abuse this without being broken out of permanent sun is insane. I really can't see this hanging around in UU much longer. I can see ShellPassing being banned though. The ease at which you can set it up, and then proceed to sweep, is close to moronic. I will be very surprised if this remains in the current UU metagame.

Keldeo will almost certainly be OU. As d0nut said, it's an incredibly effective CMer, as with a set of Hydro Pump / Hidden Power Ghost / Mystery Sword / Calm Mind, it can break through almost all it's checks with minimal entry hazard support. The major checks I can see to it would be the Lati's, since both would likely outspeed, resist both it's STAB's, and either OHKO it (Latios) or proceed to set up alongside it (Latias). Considering they both have recovery, I can't really see Keldeo winning a one on one situation against either. Considering this, it's likely Keldeo will be partnered with a Tyranitar, as it can easily switch in and proceed to Pursuit it's two major "checks".

[d0nut]

Keldeo will almost certainly be OU. As d0nut said, it's an incredibly effective CMer, as with a set of Hydro Pump / Hidden Power Ghost / Mystery Sword / Calm Mind, it can break through almost all it's checks with minimal entry hazard support. The major checks I can see to it would be the Lati's, since both would likely outspeed, resist both it's STAB's, and either OHKO it (Latios) or proceed to set up alongside it (Latias). Considering they both have recovery, I can't really see Keldeo winning a one on one situation against either. Considering this, it's likely Keldeo will be partnered with a Tyranitar, as it can easily switch in and proceed to Pursuit it's two major "checks".

Latios can beat it fairly easily, though if Latias sets up alongside it, it will lose. At best, the Roar CM variants can phaze it, but they can't beat Keldeo since Secret Sword hits Latias' physical defenses which aren't boosted by CM, so in that way it wins in a similar way as Reuniclus.

[PoignantLyrics]

Latios can beat it fairly easily, though if Latias sets up alongside it, it will lose. At best, the Roar CM variants can phaze it, but they can't beat Keldeo since Secret Sword hits Latias' physical defenses which aren't boosted by CM, so in that way it wins in a similar way as Reuniclus.

Oh, derp. I actually completely forgot to consider that.

Trying to spark more discussion, what are peoples opinions on the current nominations going on at Smogon? I honestly feel some of them feel a little extreme. I mean, they're suggesting we have an entirely weather-less metagame. Although, I honestly feel this Gen's metagame will never fully "settle down", there's just too many potential threats for the metagame to not be bent around a select few.

[RifleAvenger]

Oh, derp. I actually completely forgot to consider that.

Trying to spark more discussion, what are peoples opinions on the current nominations going on at Smogon? I honestly feel some of them feel a little extreme. I mean, they're suggesting we have an entirely weather-less metagame. Although, I honestly feel this Gen's metagame will never fully "settle down", there's just too many potential threats for the metagame to not be bent around a select few.

The weather-less suggestion is extreme and ill-conceived; there's more than enough variety within each weather, not to mention that there's 4 types of it (although sand and rain are dominant). It's alright to make changes to the meta-game in order to improve its quality, but there's a point where people can start to go too far and try to undo a game mechanic that's been around since second generation. Weather isn't just a single problem pokemon or ability combo, it's an entire range of strategies and an entire game mechanic. Banning it would remove more depth to the game than would be added back in by its removal. I can't think of a pokemon that explicitly suffers under every type of weather, so it's not like weather is killing off many other pokemon or strategies (Sun Trick room with V-create victini is brutal).

The only other serious suggestions I've seen acted upon are Deoxys-S and Latios, and I think that, given what I've seen in my experience, Latios at least will be safe. I've never seen a deoxys-S, believe it or not, so I can't comment on that one.

[kaiser soze]

did probopass get banned to ubers by smogon? I ran across a youtube video saying so but its link to smogon didnt work

[d0nut]

did probopass get banned to ubers by smogon? I ran across a youtube video saying so but its link to smogon didnt work

No. There's a reason you don't believe everything you hear on the internet.

[ParaChomp]

No. There's a reason you don't believe everything you hear on the internet.

Then how can we trust you? I hope they can figure something out that will make weather starting abilities legal in UU. Oddly enough, BL seems like it will be a playable tier.

[jolteon135]

Then how can we trust you? I hope they can figure something out that will make weather starting abilities legal in UU. Oddly enough, BL seems like it will be a playable tier.

You can use weather starting abilities in UU except Drizzle. You have Vulpix, Hiippopotas, Snover and Abomasnow. I'm guessing rain is the one you want?

[Karpi]

Oh, derp. I actually completely forgot to consider that.

Trying to spark more discussion, what are peoples opinions on the current nominations going on at Smogon? I honestly feel some of them feel a little extreme. I mean, they're suggesting we have an entirely weather-less metagame. Although, I honestly feel this Gen's metagame will never fully "settle down", there's just too many potential threats for the metagame to not be bent around a select few.

Some other servers (specifically, the popular brazil one) have a "Clear Skies" tier like this and almost nobody plays it. Of course, this is one of those things that Smogon just has to learn on its own.

[jesusfreak94]

You can use weather starting abilities in UU except Drizzle. You have Vulpix, Hiippopotas, Snover and Abomasnow. I'm guessing rain is the one you want?

I believe that Vulpix has officially been banned in UU, or at least on Smogon it has.

[PoignantLyrics]

Some other servers (specifically, the popular brazil one) have a "Clear Skies" tier like this and almost nobody plays it. Of course, this is one of those things that Smogon just has to learn on its own.

Other servers =/= Smogon. Once Smogon makes a decision, almost all it's members mass-test it in order to determine the effects on the metagame. If they implemented a weather-less tier for testing purposes, the members would use it in order to determine whether they should ban weather from the standard metagame.

[iShock]

Why is Infernape BL and Empoleon OU? I DEMAND TO KNOW!

[ilucado]

Is Darkrai still uber!? if yes why?

[d0nut]

Why is Infernape BL and Empoleon OU? I DEMAND TO KNOW!

They aren't...go look up a tier list.

Is Darkrai still uber!? if yes why?

Yes. It still has Dark Void to eliminate its already small pool of counters, and can sweep teams with little effort by either setting up a Sub or Nasty Plot.

[toawest1]

wait so is deoxys-s Banned?bc i don't see it on the list above.is in the uber Tier or is it the OU or what?