Official Serebii 5th Gen Tier List & Standard Rules Discussion Thread

[Ghosts of the Forums]

totally. would've been great.

[jesusfreak94]

Smogon has decided to test Kyurem-B for OU, similar to PO. That's right, one of the Uber Dragons with one of the most impressive Atk stats and BSTs in the game might be an OU contender in the future! The suspect ladder should be up now, so try it out and share your experiences with this guy.

I've seen a little bit of Kyurem-B on PO's OU ladder, so I might drop by later and post some of my more in-depth thoughts when I'm not on my phone.

[Eaglehawk]

Smogon has decided to test Kyurem-B for OU, similar to PO. That's right, one of the Uber Dragons with one of the most impressive Atk stats and BSTs in the game might be an OU contender in the future! The suspect ladder should be up now, so try it out and share your experiences with this guy.

I've seen a little bit of Kyurem-B on PO's OU ladder, so I might drop by later and post some of my more in-depth thoughts when I'm not on my phone.

From what PO players tell me, Kyurem-B is really, really unpopular due to Fighting-types. Theoretically speaking, it should be an awesome wall-breaker in OU with 170/120 offenses and a really great 125/100/90 bulk. A moveset of:
-Outrage
-Ice Beam/HP Fire
-Earth Power/Draco Meteor
-Fusion Bolt
can 2HKO every single wall in the Metagame. However, PO players also have complained that it has such a bad Physical movepool that even CB versions had to run Special moves. Furthermore, with the metagame leaning more towards Pure offense, Kyurem's lack of decent resistances, weakness to Dragon- and Fighting- types, and a below-average 95 Speed hinders the team more than it helps.

[cooloolcool]

From what PO players tell me, Kyurem-B is really, really unpopular due to Fighting-types. Theoretically speaking, it should be an awesome wall-breaker in OU with 170/120 offenses and a really great 125/100/90 bulk. A moveset of:
-Outrage
-Ice Beam/HP Fire
-Earth Power/Draco Meteor
-Fusion Bolt
can 2HKO every single wall in the Metagame. However, PO players also have complained that it has such a bad Physical movepool that even CB versions had to run Special moves. Furthermore, with the metagame leaning more towards Pure offense, Kyurem's lack of decent resistances, weakness to Dragon- and Fighting- types, and a below-average 95 Speed hinders the team more than it helps.

As a former Kyurem-B Player, I'll add my two cents.

Kyurem-b has a horrible movepool. It can really only run mixed sets. It has amazing base stats, but a horrid typing. With Breloom running around, and Scizor (Less seen now), it dies fairly easily. It can't set up, and is destroyed by entry hazards. If you want to use it in a team, you need to build the team around it. Haxorus is much better, since it has all it needs to survive. Haxorus also has similar Attack, less special or bulk, but a little better speed and can set up.

Most of the time, Haxorus is more favorable over Kyurem-B. The better typing, movepool, the fact that it's not killed by hazards or priority allow it to be usually more favorable.

Here is a list of some things Haxorus wants that Kyurem-B has.

• The Bulk.
• The Recovery.
• The ability to take out steels.

Now, Kyurem-B would love some of Haxorus' toys.

• Dragon Dance.
• Reliable STAB (Kyurem-B would kill for Ice Punch)
• Higher Speed.

My opinion? Kyurem-b becomes BL. Normal Kyurem is better than him. Higher special attack blizz spam. So, yeah. There's my stuff.

[Blue Harvest]

Now, Kyurem-B would love some of Haxorus' toys.

• Dragon Dance.
• Reliable STAB (Kyurem-B would kill for Ice Punch)
• Higher Speed.

My opinion? Kyurem-b becomes BL. Normal Kyurem is better than him. Higher special attack blizz spam. So, yeah. There's my stuff.

Nitpick. Kyurem gets every single Dragon move Haxorus does besides Dual Chop. On top of that Kyurem gets Ice STAB.

[cooloolcool]

Nitpick. Kyurem gets every single Dragon move Haxorus does besides Dual Chop. On top of that Kyurem gets Ice STAB.

What I meant was that he doesn't get great Ice Stab. Freeze Shock is not a good move, no matter what people say. It needs to charge, unless you use a Power Herb. By using the Herb, you lose out on LO or Choice. Sorry if I didn't explain that too well. Sure it can use Ice Beam, but that still doesn't have to power of Stab Ice Punch coming off base 170.

[Eaglehawk]

imo Kyurem-B would be much, MUCH better if it could learn Ice Shard.

[jesusfreak94]

Ice Punch really wouldn't be all that great for Kyurem-B, to be honest. To put this into perspective, a 4 SpA neutral natured Blizzard has about 92% of the power of a 252 Atk Adamant Ice Punch, so you could throw Kyurem-B in onto a Hail team with a no real SpA investment and be doing about the same damage on average with Blizzard. You would also have a couple of neat advantages like being able to sometimes OHKO physically defensive Skarmory after Rocks (Ice Punch doesn't even 2HKO) and do a little more damage against the standard Ferrothorn.

[cooloolcool]

Ice Punch really wouldn't be all that great for Kyurem-B, to be honest. To put this into perspective, a 4 SpA neutral natured Blizzard has about 92% of the power of a 252 Atk Adamant Ice Punch, so you could throw Kyurem-B in onto a Hail team with a no real SpA investment and be doing about the same damage on average with Blizzard. You would also have a couple of neat advantages like being able to sometimes OHKO physically defensive Skarmory after Rocks (Ice Punch doesn't even 2HKO) and do a little more damage against the standard Ferrothorn.

I never thought of or knew that. I guess it's true that Kyurem-B can only go mixed. When I say only, I mean like do it's best. thanks for bringing that up jesus.

And he would love Ice Shard.

[dewhinifier]

Anyways, UU is looking to retest sand and hail coming soon. Hello sandslash, stoutland, and blizzspam.

RU is looking to unban cresselia and durant. Yeah...let's pretend cress will stay unbanned. Durant could be...but RU's lacking cofagrigus, a great physical wall, this time around.

Ubers is suspect testing the OHKO clause for whatever reason...probably an attempt to make me less opinionated about their actions...

Anyways, that's it for now. More news looks like it'll come in around the second week of November due to the suspects coming in.

PS murkrow and drillbur have been LC suspects for a while...the last post on their respective threads was a month ago...:S

[camerupt fiasco]

As a former Kyurem-B Player, I'll add my two cents.

Kyurem-b has a horrible movepool. It can really only run mixed sets. It has amazing base stats, but a horrid typing. With Breloom running around, and Scizor (Less seen now), it dies fairly easily. It can't set up, and is destroyed by entry hazards. If you want to use it in a team, you need to build the team around it. Haxorus is much better, since it has all it needs to survive. Haxorus also has similar Attack, less special or bulk, but a little better speed and can set up.

Most of the time, Haxorus is more favorable over Kyurem-B. The better typing, movepool, the fact that it's not killed by hazards or priority allow it to be usually more favorable.

Here is a list of some things Haxorus wants that Kyurem-B has.

• The Bulk.
• The Recovery.
• The ability to take out steels.

Now, Kyurem-B would love some of Haxorus' toys.

• Dragon Dance.
• Reliable STAB (Kyurem-B would kill for Ice Punch)
• Higher Speed.

My opinion? Kyurem-b becomes BL. Normal Kyurem is better than him. Higher special attack blizz spam. So, yeah. There's my stuff.

As Blue Harvest said it already gets some good STAB, plus Haxorus is only 2 base speed points higher than Kyurem; it's nice to beat other base 95s, but still isn't too significant.

[complete legitimacy]

For OU's suspect test, there's no doubt in my mind that Kyurem-B will be unbanned.

As for UU, hail is being retested, but sand is probably not. Mew is gonna get voted on after hail is tested again.

And in RU, Durant is definitely being unbanned and Cresselia is likely to be unbanned imo.

[Eaglehawk]

Anyways, UU is looking to retest sand and hail coming soon. Hello sandslash, stoutland, and blizzspam.

RU is looking to unban cresselia and durant. Yeah...let's pretend cress will stay unbanned. Durant could be...but RU's lacking cofagrigus, a great physical wall, this time around.

Ubers is suspect testing the OHKO clause for whatever reason...probably an attempt to make me less opinionated about their actions...

Anyways, that's it for now. More news looks like it'll come in around the second week of November due to the suspects coming in.

PS murkrow and drillbur have been LC suspects for a while...the last post on their respective threads was a month ago...:S

Hail is much more manageable without Snow Cloak and the only advantage to hail is blizzspam. Sand is definitely not gonna be unbanned because it's just too powerful for the metagame. Even though SV Gligar no longer haxes you to forfeit, taking a +2 EQ from Slash or a CB Return from Stoutland is not fun.

And Kyurem-B is definitely unbanned. As Pokemon Online has shown us, it sucks complete **** and apparently no one likes it.

[Zachmac]

Earlier, I wondered if Kyurem-B could catch it's usually counters off guard with a Power Herb Freeze Shock. I mean, it'd mean no item, and only work once, but it could definitely surprise a counter swapping in.

252Atk Teravolt Kyurem Black (Neutral) Freeze Shock vs 252HP/88Def Leftovers Ferrothorn (+Def): 53% - 63% (187 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

....And then I learned how much I really over estimated that thing's power. I thought that this thing would be a monster that just runs around one-shotting everything....I said that this thing didn't deserve a test before, but now, I think it just might...

[dewhinifier]

Kyurem-B is officially legal in OU. Next step looks like genesect.

They may have messed up here, tho the more I think about it, the more it seems like the game is gonna revolve even more around scizor than it has in the past. It still looks like the meta will revolve around genesect unless they do something...

btw, I find it very coincidental that there's a v for vendetta reference on this day. Remember, Remember, the 5th of November.

[jesusfreak94]

Well...at least it will give us another check to Genesect...I guess...

Maybe it's just because I hated the Kyurem-B suspect ladder, but I can't say I'm too happy about this. But whatever, I'll get used to it eventually. Or I'll just quit. Whatever.

[Ilan]

Kyurem-B is officially legal in OU. Next step looks like genesect.

They may have messed up here, tho the more I think about it, the more it seems like the game is gonna revolve even more around scizor than it has in the past. It still looks like the meta will revolve around genesect unless they do something...

btw, I find it very coincidental that there's a v for vendetta reference on this day. Remember, Remember, the 5th of November.

he can be easily walled cause his only move is outrage- steel types say hi..

[Aura Flare Riolu]

Victini event with V-create, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike and Glaciate.

Victini going up to OU?

[rocky505]

Glaciate is still weaker than HP Ice. Bolt Strike seems to be the only improvement.

[Aura Flare Riolu]

Glaciate is still weaker than HP Ice. Bolt Strike seems to be the only improvement.

But Glaciate lowers Speed. So it can use it when something is switching into it and it'll allow Victini to outspeed it and hit with something stronger.

[rocky505]

True. I still wish GF didn't screw Kyurem with a weaker sig move than Resh and Zeke.

[jesusfreak94]

Victini event with V-create, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike and Glaciate.

Victini going up to OU?

That's right, Game Freak. Let's completely ignore poor Flareon, who would just love Flare Blitz, and instead let's give Victini every possible insane move that it could possibly use.

In all honestly, this isn't that much of an improvement. The only move there that Victini will probably make use of in OU is Bolt Strike, and it already had Fusion Bolt. Not that Bolt Strike isn't an improvement, because the extra 30 base power and 20% paralysis chance (at the cost of a bit of accuracy) are a nice upgrade, but it's probably not going to be game changing enough to make Victini OU. At least, no more than the popularity of Sun team will.

Special Victini will actually appreciate Blue Flare, though. While special sets are typically outclassed in OU by Pokemon like Volcarona and Heatran, they actually have a decent niche in UU. Blue Flare would effectively be a slightly stronger Fire Blast with a slightly higher burn rate, which is pretty cool. I'm not sure that it'll really have much room for Glaciate, though, since its special movepool already consists of moves like Grass Knot, Psychic/Psyshock, Thunder, and Focus Blast.

[dewhinifier]

Victini event with V-create, Blue Flare, Bolt Strike and Glaciate.

Victini going up to OU?

It'll depend on usage for sure. As previously mentioned, these moves do absolutely nothing for victini except provide harder hitting moves and more than likely making special victini a more appealing poke to more people.

In UU, I don't see it even considered broken. Mk, more threatening moves, it'll make ppl think twice about switching in milotic if they haven't already.

[thatjeremykid]

i think this event is nuts. just found out about it today and i think Glaciate would be a pretty good improvement on Victini that aren't running Choice sets. Bolt Strike is going to be insane

[jesusfreak94]

Okay, so apparently the event Victini is only available with a Lax nature. So once again, Game Freak just gave something the middle finger.