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Thread: Official Serebii 5th Gen Tier List & Standard Rules Discussion Thread

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    It creates unneccessary luck in the game. Most people prefer a game which requires skill to win as opposed to luck (granted it doesn't always turn out that way,) therefore evasion, the ability Moody, and OHKO moves (due to their low accuracy) are banned. Other things like crits, misses, and secondary effects people just have to deal with since there is no way to alter them without changing the game mechanics. Also Minimize is +2 now, which is all the more reason to keep it banned.
    Perhaps they should have moves in the game that never miss, moves that reset all stat changes or moves that reset the target's evasion boosts to zero.

    Oh wait...

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutsumi View Post
    Perhaps they should have moves in the game that never miss, moves that reset all stat changes or moves that reset the target's evasion boosts to zero.

    Oh wait...
    Exactly my point. Moves like aerial ace and haze just ruin evasioners. If you think your opponent will use double team for a few turns (and if he uses it once he'll probably use it a few times) then just boost your stats for a few turns and completely ruin his plans with aerial ace, haze, aura sphere, whatever. I think that trying to build a team to counter evasioners as well as everything else merely adds more skill into team building and the game in general.
    Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

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  3. #253
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    lol "more skill when team building". more like more **** to deal with in a metagame with too much **** to begin with. try again

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutsumi View Post
    Perhaps they should have moves in the game that never miss, moves that reset all stat changes or moves that reset the target's evasion boosts to zero.

    Oh wait...
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Cut View Post
    Exactly my point. Moves like aerial ace and haze just ruin evasioners. If you think your opponent will use double team for a few turns (and if he uses it once he'll probably use it a few times) then just boost your stats for a few turns and completely ruin his plans with aerial ace, haze, aura sphere, whatever. I think that trying to build a team to counter evasioners as well as everything else merely adds more skill into team building and the game in general.
    Those sorts of moves really aren't practical to have on a team, and have little use outside of Evasion users. Evasion has been tested so many times and it's always, always found to be broken.
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  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutsumi View Post
    Perhaps they should have moves in the game that never miss, moves that reset all stat changes or moves that reset the target's evasion boosts to zero.

    Oh wait...
    Haze has bad distribution and isn't a very good move.

    Clear Smog will not effect Pokemon behind a Substitute, nor will if effect Steel types. It can also miss. Also the only marginally usable Pokemon to learn it is Weezing. Gengar and Kingdra also do though its a waste on them.

    Roar / Whirlwind can miss.

    Sweet Scent is a joke.

    Aerial Ace / Shock Wave / Swift / Magical Leaf etc. are garbage moves. So what if you can hit that Double Teaming Garchomp, you still aren't doing **** to it.

    Aura Sphere is the only good one and very few Pokemon learn it.


    Double Team has been tested SO MUCH its ridiculous. Its broken even if you don't believe us.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Haze has bad distribution and isn't a very good move.

    Clear Smog will not effect Pokemon behind a Substitute, nor will if effect Steel types. It can also miss. Also the only marginally usable Pokemon to learn it is Weezing. Gengar and Kingdra also do though its a waste on them.

    Roar / Whirlwind can miss.

    Sweet Scent is a joke.

    Aerial Ace / Shock Wave / Swift / Magical Leaf etc. are garbage moves. So what if you can hit that Double Teaming Garchomp, you still aren't doing **** to it.

    Aura Sphere is the only good one and very few Pokemon learn it.


    Double Team has been tested SO MUCH its ridiculous. Its broken even if you don't believe us.
    Minor nitpick, but doesn't Clear Smog always hit? Other than that, I completely agree. And Moody was even worse than DT.
    Quote Originally Posted by XxEpicsxX View Post
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  7. #257
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    Yeah, maybe aerial ace/magical leaf aren't as powerful as other moves, but with STAB most are base 90 power, and that's a standard power of most pokemon's coverage moves, if not more. And the trade off is less power for an always hit, anyway.
    Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

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  8. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Cut View Post
    Yeah, maybe aerial ace/magical leaf aren't as powerful as other moves, but with STAB most are base 90 power, and that's a standard power of most pokemon's coverage moves, if not more. And the trade off is less power for an always hit, anyway.
    Yet, w/o evasion, there are plenty of other moves with 100% accuracy that SHOULD always hit, and do more damage. Even at 90 BP, you're still probably not going to OHKO or 2HKO, maybe even 3HKO pokemon, because most of the never miss moves (minus Aura Sphere), don't get the best coverage, have low BP, and a lot of major threats have at least acceptable bulk + defenses and won't be one hit by the likes of STAB magical leaf.

    Letting in evasion is more trouble than it's worth; why force players to either run low power, never hit moves or play the dice, when neither improve the quality of the metagame?
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  9. #259
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    having to deal with evasion > need for hazing > need for more base 60 moves > less flexibility for your team

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  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    having to deal with evasion > need for hazing > need for more base 60 moves > less flexibility for your team
    Exactly, so there's more skill in building a team that can take on all corners.

    I do see your point, evasion can be very annoying, but it's part of the skill of the game of being able to deal with that and building teams to counter to it. Besides, either togekiss and lucario, two pokemon often seen in the competitive game that can learn aura sphere and can hit hard with it, could easily be fit into a team to deal with evaison users, and could handle other sfuff too.
    Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

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  11. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Cut View Post
    Exactly, so there's more skill in building a team that can take on all corners.

    I do see your point, evasion can be very annoying, but it's part of the skill of the game of being able to deal with that and building teams to counter to it. Besides, either togekiss and lucario, two pokemon often seen in the competitive game that can learn aura sphere and can hit hard with it, could easily be fit into a team to deal with evaison users, and could handle other sfuff too.
    You just don't get it, do you.

    First off, Aerial Ace / Magical Leaf are really ****ing weak moves that you should never use. And if something's using Evaision boosts properly then it'll be pairing them with bulky subs that Aerial Ace and Magical Leaf can't break. Continuing, Togekiss doesn't hit that hard with Aura Sphere either, and Lucario is completely impractical on a ton of teams. Do you actually want it to be a requirement to use one of those pokes in a meta with, to quote bulldogs, "so much **** already"?

    Also Evaision completely voids certain playstyles. Stall will have trouble beating something that's set up +6 evaision due to phazing moves missing, and the very very low distribution of haze means that most hazers are impractical. Same goes for Perish Song (barring Politoed).

    Also it doesn't add any more skill whatsoever to the game. To be fair, I get that you're probably the type who considers weather and stall bad because it "takes no skill to play" or some **** like that, but you really actually want to make the metagame more luck based? No thanks...

  12. #262
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    So aside from from the once in while I want to play with double team discussion. RU anybody anyone play some RU thought etc? I played some RU as you can guess. I played on smogon sever awhile ago to get a feel for it. Played about 30 something games its fun but like any early tier it needs work I feel. Cress I think needs to leave I never played one of the things until I tried out RU but its quite the wtf why won't you die poke in this tier. Only honhkrow, stallrein, and durant seem to deal her. honhkrow needs to still fear the ice beam and durant has that stupid hustle ability which can screw you over at times, and stallrein is stallrein.

    I know there been discussion of getting rid of shell smash and pass but honestly you know who's better venomoth yeah I said venomoth. This guy in RU was everywhere and immediately I found people running pokes on their team that couldn't fall asleep just for this dude. He may not pass the same offensive quality of stats in one go but he's much easier and sound to pull it off with. Give porygon-z one quiver dance pass don't be surprised if that's enough to clean up your team. I feel these two are easily already the most suspect for that tier to at least go UU.

    Wobbefet confuses me a bit on what should happen as I feel he isn't as bad chandelure but he's still pretty much guaranteed to at least kill on something. See he has to take large chunks of damage to kill stuff chandelure may only have to take stealth rock damage to kill stuff. I was having fun abusing him with perish song though. You can make all sorts of stupid switch predictions when your opponent is fearing getting trapped with wobbefet. He's just such stupid un-fun poke to be facing and you feel like a tard using him a bit.
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  13. #263
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    The only legit defense for Evasion is that it is "part of the game". Then again it makes the game more coin flip based and as EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS (thanks to battle tower hax) having some random thing Double Team once then **** on your whole team is NOT FUN. I enjoy the game more without evasion.


    Edit: Smogon just banned Garchomp.

  14. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Edit: Smogon just banned Garchomp.
    I think you misread the sample ballot? The OU Pokemon voting doesn't end until the end of tomorrow.

    (Although I bet there's a high probability it's going to be banned anyway! People like LizardMan raaaaaaaaaage at its sight.)
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  15. #265

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    It looks like at the moment, no one has voted just yet. But I (as many people) hope that Garchomp is banned, although I have mixed feelings about the others. Thundurus and Deoxys are pretty annoying sometimes, but I've never really thought too much about them. I could see Latios getting banned, and Excadrill as well, seeing as how Auto Weather has been voted to stay.

  16. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by AromaFlora View Post
    I think you misread the sample ballot? The OU Pokemon voting doesn't end until the end of tomorrow.
    Reachzero mentioned something about how Garchomp has already received enough votes to earn a ban. Even if the rest of the voters pick OU it won't turn the tide.

  17. #267
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    Excadrill to me getting banned is saying nobody wants sandteams to be truly viable in ou. There's too much biased thinking there to make me feel it should be taken seriously. As much of pain in the *** it is too keep every team you design having someway to deal with excadrill during a sandstorm. It just feels like a dumb snowball effect of banning every heavy weather abuser. If garchomp leaves I don't see how latios could possibly stay around there like too half's of the same evil dragon coin. If one leaves there other becomes hugely uncontested.
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  18. #268
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    Excadrill will not be banned.

  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    You just don't get it, do you.

    First off, Aerial Ace / Magical Leaf are really ****ing weak moves that you should never use. And if something's using Evaision boosts properly then it'll be pairing them with bulky subs that Aerial Ace and Magical Leaf can't break. Continuing, Togekiss doesn't hit that hard with Aura Sphere either, and Lucario is completely impractical on a ton of teams. Do you actually want it to be a requirement to use one of those pokes in a meta with, to quote bulldogs, "so much **** already"?

    Also Evaision completely voids certain playstyles. Stall will have trouble beating something that's set up +6 evaision due to phazing moves missing, and the very very low distribution of haze means that most hazers are impractical. Same goes for Perish Song (barring Politoed).

    Also it doesn't add any more skill whatsoever to the game. To be fair, I get that you're probably the type who considers weather and stall bad because it "takes no skill to play" or some **** like that, but you really actually want to make the metagame more luck based? No thanks...
    Fine. I'll take your point and back down from this debate. My departing comment is that evasion is viable because it exists and part of the skill of pokemon is team building, building a take-all-corners-team, thats why we have CRMT, to help other along this path. And, as for weather and stall, I do think they take skill to play, perhaps not as much as some, unknown devilish tactic that some genius has dreamt up, but I do like to see something different.

    End of discussion. I will continue to use evasion in random matchup and battles agaisnt friends. And save other teams for smogon tiers and whatnot.

    Anyway, Garchomp, being banned. I'm cool with that. There are ways of dealing with it, sure (I don't suppose there's a pokemon with technician and ice shard? That's anti-garchomp if I ever saw it) but yeah, I see too much of him. Roll on the other dragons!
    Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

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  20. #270

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    It looks like at the moment, no one has voted just yet.
    The poll is a blind poll so you can't see what the votes are until the poll is closed. Just thought I'd clear that up.

    Excadrill has been nominated every single round now, and hasn't recieved a significant amount of votes yet, so I think its very unlikely he will be banned. He always gets tons of nominations, though it seems the people who are actually voting don't seem to think he's broken. Chomp is probably leaving this round though, which is a relief. I will miss ScarfChomp, which is one of my favorite revenge killers and really isn't a broken set, though Sub + SD with Sand support is all it takes to ban him. I'm interested to see what happens to Thundurus though.
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  21. #271
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    I can't really see Thundurus getting banned, to be honest.
    Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

    3DS Friend Code: 2105 - 8928 - 6860

    Looking for any breedable flawless Pokemon!



  22. #272
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    It just missed a supermajority actually.

    For those keeping up with the suspect round, Garchomp is banned, Thundurus is automatically a suspect while the rest were voted OU xP.

    I'll update the list.

  23. #273

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    Yea, 63% bans for Thundurus is very close. I can't see it sticking around another round at this point. Don't think anyone should honestly be surprised about Chomp though. I thought Latios' vote would be closer though it seems people have learned to accept it, along with Deoxys. Excadrill was a go figure...
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  24. #274
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    I'm fine with chomp gone but I don't see why latios is ok. I guess special attackers get special notice as long as blissey/ ferrothorn exists. O well.
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  25. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clubinhand View Post
    I'm fine with chomp gone but I don't see why latios is ok. I guess special attackers get special notice as long as blissey/ ferrothorn exists. O well.
    Tyranitar and Jirachi also counter it. In fact, Bliss and Ferrothorn don't even counter Latios due to Psyshock and Hidden Power Fire.
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