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Thread: Official Serebii 5th Gen Tier List & Standard Rules Discussion Thread

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by MufinskullzFTW View Post
    Why was Swift Swim+Drizzle banned?
    1. You can just switch in and change the weather or use a weather changing move like Sandstorm.
    2. If we REALLY don't like that combo, just limit the usage of one swift swim user per Team....
    3. Priority can OHKO or 2HKO most Swift users....Conk after a Bulk Up+Guts can OHKO most of them, especially.........
    Drizzle + Swift Swim is about the same as Sand Stream + Sand Rush if I'm not mistaken..
    But that combo isn't banned? Just unban Drizzle + Swift Swim. it don't hurt nobody no-how.




  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by thejt View Post
    Drizzle + Swift Swim is about the same as Sand Stream + Sand Rush if I'm not mistaken..
    But that combo isn't banned? Just unban Drizzle + Swift Swim. it don't hurt nobody no-how.
    Yes, it does hurt. Sandstorm doesn't give all your ground/rock/steel attacks double STAB like Drizzle does for Water attacks. The combo was banned for a reason =/

  3. #303
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    Then AT LEAST let Swift Swim Beartic be on Drizzle teams. It doesn't get double STAB.

  4. #304
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    There are some pokemon that are too good with SS. Kingdra, for one has decent buk and decent attacking stats. The problem is, due to power creep, it stats are a lot worse than they used to be. With SS it turns into a monster that can abuse an incredible dual STAB. He needs to be banned because Kingdra is incredibly hard to beat. Same with Ludicolo. With Giga Drain picking up a boost, he gets reliable recovery and a nice STAB move. it can takes hits thanks to its nice bulk and fire off surfs and ice beams to decimate teams. Physical variants can run drain punch to get a hit on Ferrothorn as well. Omaster and Kabutops have worse defensive typing, but they make up for that with incredible attacking stats. There are some SS that are just not as good. Seismitoad and Mantine are far less threatening as attackers that would still be mediocre even if they could abuse Swift Swim. Swift Swim should only be banned on some pokemon since it turns some pokemon into monsters while others remain decent but not overwhelming.

    When you look at Sandstorm, it's a different story. Sandstorm has two starters, one being a physical tank with Slack Off as well as EQ and Ice Fang for offense while the other is one of the best pokemon in the game with huge attack, nice special attack, and good defenses. Both can also put up Stealth Rock, and Hippowdon carries a resistance to it. Excadrill is the king of sandstorm. Without running a speed boosting nature, it outrruns the entire metagame. With Air Balloon, it can come in on an Earthquake, set up a SD, and sweep. A +2 Excadrill against an opponent with no weather changers, priority abusers (besides Bullet Punch users), an Excadrill of their own, or a Ditto is an automatic win. Terakion is another good Sandstorm abuser. With the ability to run Rock Polish and Swords Dance on the same set, as well as a Sp. Def boost from Sandstorm, it can set up a Rock Polish, and Swords Dance, or both and sponge hits with its improves Sp Def. It can then shred a team with Stone Edge and Close Combat. Garchomp could abuse Sand Veil and set up a sweep. Landorous uses Sand Power, Swords Dance, And EQ+Stone Edge to abuse incredibly powerful moves.

    Out of all the sandstorm abusers, only Garchomp has been banned, whereas all Swift Swimmers have been banned. If Excadrill and Landorous can destroy teams and they remain unbanned, it makes no sense to ban bad pokemon like Seismitoad and Luvdisc just because it has an ability. They should unban certain SS pokemon.

  5. #305
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    Exactly. Floatzel-Fast, good attack, but HORRIBLE DEFENSES. many, many things can come in and kill it.
    Luvdisc- Still basically SUCKS. Horrible Stats across the board.
    Seismatoad- Pretty good, but not team-destroying.
    These pokemon can be unbanned because they have many chacks and counters. Porygon two can stop most of these pokemon cold, by crippling them, then Charge-Beaming them to oblivion. Only Seismatoad can withstand it, but you just need a good grass type to finish it off.
    Beartic is also not as good. It's similar to a Ursaring w/ lower attack, and Ursaring is already pretty good w/ Quick Feet. Beartic doesn't gain any STAB, so don't you think these 4 should be unbanned?

  6. #306
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    Was blaziken banned just because of speed boost? I don't really understand, because blaziken was rarely ever used in gen IV
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  7. #307
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    The only thing holding Blazikin back in Gen 4 was its bad speed. With Speed Boost, it can increase its speed without needing Agility and use its powerful attacking stats to rip holes in teams. It also missed out on Close Combat last gen, but HJK got a big boost in Gen 5, giving it an incredibly powerful fighting STAB. It was banned since not much could stop it.

    @MufinSkullz: I never thought of Beartic when I posted, but now I realize that it should a also be unbanned. It's not overwhelming with SS to begin with, and it's weak to mach Punch, Bullet Punch, and Vacumn Wave, making it's new speed a non-facotr. There is no real reason to ban it.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by MufinskullzFTW View Post
    Then AT LEAST let Swift Swim Beartic be on Drizzle teams. It doesn't get double STAB.
    That's an idea to test out but Beartic is not that great overall (and I doubt Smogon will be giving it an OU analysis anytime soon).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kansas_Rocks! View Post
    Was blaziken banned just because of speed boost? I don't really understand, because blaziken was rarely ever used in gen IV
    Yup but I tried asking Smogon but they denied it. Hi Jump Kick and Flare Blitz as its stabs? That's a good enough reason? They said so.
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  9. #309
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    RU is going to be great, especially with hard hitters like Porygon Z...
    Does anybody think that OU Pokemon could be used in lesser tiers if they used thier inferior ability? (i.e. Synchorize Espeon)
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  10. #310

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    wait... i havent been competitive battling since gen IV so.... whats up the the rarely used tier? (RU)

    oh and why is Kyurem the only BL pkmn?

  11. #311
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    Beartic is more of a defensive Ursaring. Ursaring is faster, Stronger, and it has a similar ability to remedy it's speed.
    Beartic cannot abuse Swift Swim much, plus it's physical movepool is lacking. Smogon *And Serebii* Should think about these pokemon when banning. They really deserve to be unbanned.

  12. #312
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    Along with what MufiSkullz said, Ice is a terrible defensive typing. SR weak, Mach Punch weak, Bullet Punch weak, Vacumn Wave weak, along with Fighting, Rock, and Fire weaknesses make it much easier to beat.

  13. #313
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    Plus Fighting is present on almost ALL teams. Blue Harvest, please consider the unbanning of these pokemon.

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    Whose the head of smogan?

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by MufinskullzFTW View Post
    Plus Fighting is present on almost ALL teams. Blue Harvest, please consider the unbanning of these pokemon.
    Drizzle + Swift Swim is not going to be lifted for one Pokémon. That just leads to "how much do we neuter these Pokémon until they're not broken in OU..."

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  16. #316
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    .. its not banned. The abilities Swift Swim and Drizzle can not be used on the same team. You can use the Ice Bear all you want.

  17. #317
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    Hey guys, here's an idea. Make sure you understand the bans before running your mouth. Thanks!

    By the way, saying things like "Swift Swim + Drizzle should be banned on Pokemon x, y and z, but not a, b and c" is such a bad argument. That completely goes against Smogon's policy this Gen, which is to ensure as few complex bans are made as possible.

    Not to mention, you're assuming the ban is an entirely different proposal that what it actually is. You're implying all of those Pokemon were banned outright. You're wrong. The abilities Drizzle and Swift Swim are banned together, not any individual Swift Swim user.

  18. #318
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    ^ Well that's the problem. Certain pokemon aren't broken just because they have swift swim+Drizzle on their side. The most logical way to ban the pokemon is to test each of them autonomously. Swift swim isn't broken on luvdisc, kindra, perhaps. It makes no sense just outright banning the ability when evidently some pokemon can function well with it and not "break" the metagame.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shockblast View Post
    RU is going to be great, especially with hard hitters like Porygon Z...
    ...and Porygon-Z is a beast in OU anyway.

    No, I'm not giving anyone credit for my team pose because I made it myself.

  20. #320
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    I've never used Porygon-z, but wasn't it originally considered too slow?

  21. #321
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    Yes, I believe the reason why people haven't used it as much anymore is its now-mediocre base 90 speed.

    I've just always gotten at least one KO using it. Maybe it's because no one expects it anymore...

    No, I'm not giving anyone credit for my team pose because I made it myself.

  22. #322
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    Scarf it. w/ Timid nature. =/
    Is Chomp unbanned? Someone used it on PO wifi, not wifi Ubers.

  23. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by MufinskullzFTW View Post
    Scarf it. w/ Timid nature. =/
    Is Chomp unbanned? Someone used it on PO wifi, not wifi Ubers.
    Pokemon Online doesn't follow the same tiers as Smogon. Garchomp and Blaziken are both unbanned on Pokemon Online's server, but banned on Smogon's.

    EDIT: Correction, Garchomp might have been banned on PO. I didn't notice that, it must have been fairly recent. But still, they don't use the same tiers.

  24. #324
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    I think Drizzle+SS is unbanned of PO. In fact, I don't think anything is banned except Chomp and the ubers.

  25. #325
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    Pokemon-online's testing process became slow for some reason unknown.But recently they started it again.Kingdra was suspect banned first to check it's impact on the metagame.In the voting process Kingdra was voted OU,as most users believed kingdra is not the broken thing but rain is.Then politoed was test banned and in the suspect voting it was made OU too.Which means they might try drizzle+ss next but I can assure you they won't leave rain unnerfed.

    As for garchomp it has been voted Uber

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