Official Serebii 5th Gen Tier List & Standard Rules Discussion Thread

[d0nut]

The problem with fighting types, other than Lucario, is that their attacks make contact, causing damage to them. Plus Ferrothorn has absurd defense.

Iron Thorns doesn't do that much damage really... No one good uses Rocky Helmet either. Ferrothorn's "absurd defense" really isn't saving it from any Fighting moves either. Conkeldurr sets up in Ferrothorn's face without any problems, and heals any damage he might have taken back with Drain Punch. Standard Machamp and Lucario KO with their STABs. Toxicroak is the same as Conkeldurr. Infernape can use either STAB. Terrakion KOs with CC. Virizion can use either CC or Focus Blast to KO after a boost. Scrafty can also set up on it. Please don't overestimate Ferrothorn... it makes you look bad.

Also, are we sure Hydration Vaporeon isn't uber material? That's what got Manaphy there and he has a lot less HP.

As other stated... Tail Glow is the thing which pushed Manaphy over the top for the most part. Vaporeon is still fairly easy to kill since there are a ton of Grass types in the metagame, and several other things which have access to Electric moves.

[aavr1992]

i was playing online and some guy came at me with a haxorus, darkrai, rayquaza, speed boost blaziken, jirachi, and mewtwo. i forgot to click 'force same tier'

it was a doubles match. i had slaking, eviolite dusclops with skill swap, gyrados, manectric, toxicroak, and ludicolo. I DESTROYED HIM. i skill swapped speed boost off blaziken onto my dusclops and aerial aced the blaziken out. the jirachi used wish. then i switched speed boost onto slaking and raped from then on out. earthquaked a few times, slack off when hp got low, brick break on darkrai. etc. a waterfall from gyrados, thunder wave and thunderbolt from manectric. thats it. it was a 4-0 match.

slaking, dusclops, manectric, and ludicolo are uu. gyrados and toxicroak are ou. i swept a team of ubers, one of which was the speed booster everyone (including myself) said was nigh unbeatable, and facking darkrai. the tiers apparently mean little if your skill is high enough.

[jolteon135]

the tiers apparently mean little if your skill is high enough.

Did you consider the other possibility? You played against a sh*tty player. Not much to brag about.

Also the tiers are for the singles metagame not doubles.

[Blue Harvest]

the tiers apparently mean little if your skill is high enough.

Tiers mean little when you play morons.

[Remorph]

Yeah, I killed a player 6-0 in Ubers. But the man insisted on having Strength on half of his Ubers. I just switched to my Steelix. Apparently, this idiot didn't know you could have more than one move.

[aavr1992]

Tiers mean little when you play morons.

Did you consider the other possibility? You played against a sh*tty player. Not much to brag about.

Also the tiers are for the singles metagame not doubles.

true...lol still though; there's always a counter

[Remorph]

true...lol still though; there's always a counter

Yes, but an experienced player would have taken this game to a close match, because of the pokemon used.

[aavr1992]

a skilled player could have put a focus sash on the blaziken and ohko'd slaking with close combat, or at least 2hko'd. he could have set up the speed boost with protect and taken advantage of truant. of course, i could have predicted this and sashed slaking too. possibilities.

basically he mispredicted me switching out or something, made a bad move, and i took advantage

[Remorph]

a skilled player could have put a focus sash on the blaziken and ohko'd slaking with close combat, or at least 2hko'd. he could have set up the speed boost with protect and taken advantage of truant. of course, i could have predicted this and sashed slaking too. possibilities.

basically he mispredicted me switching out or something, made a bad move, and i took advantage

I recall you saying you forgot to click on the force same tier button. You could have not predicted a blaziken. Pointless bickering isn't going to prove to me, or anyone else that you fought a skilled trainer.

[aavr1992]

who's bickering? i basically called him unskilled.

a skilled player could have put a focus sash on the blaziken and ohko'd slaking with close combat, or at least 2hko'd. he could have set up the speed boost with protect and taken advantage of truant.

[Remorph]

who's bickering? i basically called him unskilled.

Ok, then. Now let's talk about the 5th gen tier list, and not your victory.

[Blue Harvest]

Skill Swapping Slaking strategy is terrible even in doubles. You're left with a largely useless Dusclops or whatever and a only somewhat useful Slaking.. 160 attack / 100 speed is great but its just going to get raped in doubles by something faster or two Pokemon teaming up on it.

Also Skill Swap + Slaking doesn't work anymore.

[Remorph]

Skill Swapping Slaking strategy is terrible even in doubles. You're left with a largely useless Dusclops or whatever and a only somewhat useful Slaking.. 160 attack / 100 speed is great but its just going to get raped in doubles by something faster or two Pokemon teaming up on it.

Also Skill Swap + Slaking doesn't work anymore.

It was better in the third gen, when there was no eviolite, and dusknoir didnt exist.

[Fearless123]

Don't get me wrong I like smogan, but I cannot understand how some pokemon like Electivire which was in OU in gen 4 can drop all the way down to NU (or whatever) and vise versa in just 1 new generation. I'm also dissapointed how some pokemon like Snorlax which was in OU through 1-4 gens but now dropped to UU.

[kaiser soze]

Don't get me wrong I like smogan, but I cannot understand how some pokemon like Electivire which was in OU in gen 4 can drop all the way down to NU (or whatever) and vise versa in just 1 new generation. I'm also dissapointed how some pokemon like Snorlax which was in OU through 1-4 gens but now dropped to UU.

The biggest reason why is because there are so many new pokemon, but only a small fraction of spots for each tier. You can't just label pokemon a pokemon "OU," it needs to be used a lot more than other pokemon.

[aavr1992]

i really don't see why snorlax was ever labelled a threat from gen iii on. after GSC i never had any problems taking down snorlax with more than 2 attacks. don't hit him with specials, don't try to poison him, don't use fire or ice.

there are ...13? fighting pokemon in ou. all of them could kill snorlax. jellicent and cofagrigus wall snorlax. ferrothorn. skarmory. forretress. bronzond. steelix. lucario. machamp laughs in snorlax's face

[jesusfreak94]

Don't get me wrong I like smogan, but I cannot understand how some pokemon like Electivire which was in OU in gen 4 can drop all the way down to NU (or whatever) and vise versa in just 1 new generation. I'm also dissapointed how some pokemon like Snorlax which was in OU through 1-4 gens but now dropped to UU.

It's all about usage, how often the players put the Pokemon on their teams, not just what Smogon decides. To be honest, Electivire should have never been OU in the first place. Probably the main reason for its use was the "awesome set that hits 13 of the 17 types super effectively", which was still walled by a few things. It also lacked a powerful physical STAB and any good boosting move. Snorlax is used less mainly because of the new powerful Fighting types in OU. The dropped to UU was honestly not that bad, and it does better with the lack of killer Fighting types in that metagame. That's the thing: it's all about how often a Pokemon is used, and that is determined by how the Pokemon fairs in the metagame.

[windsong]

a skilled player could have put a focus sash on the blaziken and ohko'd slaking with close combat, or at least 2hko'd. he could have set up the speed boost with protect and taken advantage of truant. of course, i could have predicted this and sashed slaking too. possibilities.

basically he mispredicted me switching out or something, made a bad move, and i took advantage

stop ****ing contradicting yourself

[GOLDENCRS]

stop ****ing contradicting yourself

lol, I was thinking the same thing

but back to what he was saying, I have 6-0'ed Uber Teams because most of the players aren't very bright, just are forced in that tier cuz OMG BLAZIKEN IS SUCH A BEAST, for example. OU teams can take down uber teams, yes, but the other player has to have been dropped on their head as a baby, and a good Ubers player would likely 6-0 an OU team. So, YOUR POINT IS INVALID GOD D*****

[R4GEKILL!!!]

Just contributing to the "WHAI ISH SNORLAX NO OU ANYMOARRZ?!?!" question.
Gen 3: Shadow Ball, no HP Fighting/Focus Blast for special pokes, A meta dominated by pokes SNORLAX could easily set up on...
Every other Gen: Efficient Mixed pokes, Hazing/Phazing becoming rampant. Fighting pokes like machamp, conkelderp, musketeers, lucario, and ape. Etc.