Happy New Year folks, and congrats to the winners of the sppf competitive poll thingy.
Tier changes time!
I'm first gonna start off by reporting news that i've not reported yet: Hail is unbanned in every tier under OU. This in spite of forgetting that they originally banned it for blizzspam in the first place.
DOWN TO UU
chansey
abomasnow
~None of these are surprises to me, they've been right on the 3% border for the majority of the BW2 meta.
UP TO RU
amoongus
snover
emboar
absol
cinccino
~Hello NU team shift.
DOWN TO NU
Stoutland
Roselia
~And so continues stoutland's fall from grace. Remember when it and sawsbuck were both UU? Me neither. (J/k, Idk if anyone would remember that sawsbuck was UU until a year ago or so.)
Mk, and since the NU <-> PU list is chaotic, I'm not gonna post it
So far I've played the UU metagame with Chansey, and stall magically becomes much more viable now. Right now, Gligar + Chansey is probably by far the bulkiest defensive core out there atm. It walls a good 90% of the metagame and provides good heal synergy. The only problem is the existence of the tiers mixed fighters and Scrafty. DD Scrafty can easily 2HKO Gligar with Ice Punch and Chansey would be dumb as hell to switch in. Mixed Mienshao and Virizion can easily screw the core over. Plus, with Hail unbanned, residual damage is going to be extremely hard to deal with.
I don't know if Abomasnow is gonna catch on though. With Snow Cloak banned, the only reason to use hail is gone. BlizzSpam isn't as easy as it used to be and Ice Body stall is just silly.
Originally Posted by jesusfreak94
Yeah, Amoonguss and Emboar moving up was really dumb. They only got there because of another Pokemon spamming prank, seeing as how their most used items are DeepSeaScale and Sticky Barb, respectively. Not that I'm complaining that Amoonguss is gone, but it honestly shouldn't be.
As for the others, they were expected. I am a bit sad to see Hail gone from NU since it gave me one more team archetype to run through with Combusken, but we did get a new Spikes/Toxic Spikes user in Roselia.
Now we just need to wait for the Tornadus-T and Keldeo tests and see where they land!
Yeah that kind of ticked me off Amoonguss and Emboar are gone. On the up side, though, we can observe a completely new metagame unfold in NU. Tangela is definitely going to see a huge spike in usage to fill in Mushroom's niche down there.
I really think that instead of putting Torn and Kel on Suspect, they should suspect Excadrill to OU. As of right now, the metagame is extremely unbalanced in Rain's favor, and Sand right now has legitimately nothing on the table offensively. By dropping Excadrill, we would actually see a more balanced metagame, where rain setting isn't going to be all that easy.
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I'm curious about that, actually. If Tornadus-T is banned, do you think a mixed rain dnite with Hurricane/Thunder/Extremespeed/Outrage would rise in usage? I run that set now because I had felt like it, and I personally like it and wonder why I don't see it more often. Probably because I can't ladder to high (like 1400-1500 on PS!), but still. I would expect to see it more as a Tornadus-T alternative. As for Keldeo, I don't think it's as hard to deal with as Tornadus-T simply because it doesn't have as good range. Or I feel like it doesn't have as much of a range so I don't feel as helpless against it. I don't know, but I wouldn't mind Keldeo staying in OU.
I think Dragonite is certainly a possible replacement. No doubt its Rain abuser set does receive some competition from Tornadus-T. However, I expect Tornadus's Incarnate form to be the more likely candidate to fill its shoes. While it lacks the extra speed, bulk, and access to Regenerator that makes Tornadus-T so dangerous, Tornadus-I does still have a slightly more powerful Hurricane and I'm sure will fill the role decently enough. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a repeat of the Thundurus-I ban back in 2010. Tornadus-I had just dropped to UU due partially to the competition on Rain teams from the Electric genie, and it rose back into OU once Thundurus-I was banned. I see a similar possibility if Tornadus-T were to be banned as well.
Originally Posted by Eaglehawk
Yeah that kind of ticked me off Amoonguss and Emboar are gone. On the up side, though, we can observe a completely new metagame unfold in NU. Tangela is definitely going to see a huge spike in usage to fill in Mushroom's niche down there.
I really think that instead of putting Torn and Kel on Suspect, they should suspect Excadrill to OU. As of right now, the metagame is extremely unbalanced in Rain's favor, and Sand right now has legitimately nothing on the table offensively. By dropping Excadrill, we would actually see a more balanced metagame, where rain setting isn't going to be all that easy.
I've entertained the thought of testing Excadrill and even Blaziken myself, but I fear that while you would be giving Rain some stiffer competition, you would only be making the other weather types even more powerful. Non-weather still remains the most popular playstyle in regards to weather, and it would be even more difficult to have to deal with Pokemon like Excadrill on top of already having to handle Keldeo and Tornadus-T, among other things.
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I think Dragonite is certainly a possible replacement. No doubt its Rain abuser set does receive some competition from Tornadus-T. However, I expect Tornadus's Incarnate form to be the more likely candidate to fill its shoes. While it lacks the extra speed, bulk, and access to Regenerator that makes Tornadus-T so dangerous, Tornadus-I does still have a slightly more powerful Hurricane and I'm sure will fill the role decently enough. I wouldn't be surprised if we have a repeat of the Thundurus-I ban back in 2010. Tornadus-I had just dropped to UU due partially to the competition on Rain teams from the Electric genie, and it rose back into OU once Thundurus-I was banned. I see a similar possibility if Tornadus-T were to be banned as well.
Probably true, which means I can keep using Dragonite. Yay!
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Also, tornadus t is expected to be banned from smogon OU, keld expected to stay OU. Expect torny i to rise back to OU and then continue where it left off in bw1.
Tornadus-T is banned from Smogon OU and will be going to Ubers with majority. Keldeo will stay in OU with majority. Changes being modified at the moment, but the announcement is the same.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about competitive Pokémon culture (I'm an expert!), but honour and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like in Yu-Gi-Oh, where you can become successful by banning things like Exodia, The Forbidden One. If you ban broken threats in Pokémon, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the competitive Pokémon community, after hearing about this, is not going to want to use Smogon tiers on their sites, nor will they continue to use their Smogon account. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Smogon has alienated an entire competitive Pokémon market with this move.
Smogon should publicly apologise and unban Tornadus-Therian or they can kiss their standing in the prestigious, honourable Pokémon community goodbye!
Spoiler:- ....:
Yeah right lmao, kudos to the suspect voters for banning this thing. I am so glad this it is gone. :’)
I personally think Rain won’t be that much of a deal now that this is gone. Thundurus-Therian I see rising in usage along with Dragonite on rain teams. But the most important thing is that rain just got a whole lot more manageable with this ban, and I love it.
Also, Blue Harvest is a liar and a thief.
Last edited by Ragnarok; 17th January 2013 at 11:10 PM.
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I don't know how much the rest of you know about competitive Pokémon culture (I'm an expert!), but honour and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like in Yu-Gi-Oh, where you can become successful by banning things like Exodia, The Forbidden One. If you ban broken threats in Pokémon, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the competitive Pokémon community, after hearing about this, is not going to want to use Smogon tiers on their sites, nor will they continue to use their Smogon account. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Smogon has alienated an entire competitive Pokémon market with this move.
Smogon should publicly apologise and unban Tornadus-Therian or they can kiss their standing in the prestigious, honourable Pokémon community goodbye!
Spoiler:- ....:
Yeah right lmao, kudos to the suspect voters for banning this thing. I am so glad this it is gone. :’)
I personally think Rain won’t be that much of a deal now that this is gone. Thundurus-Therian I see rising in usage along with Dragonite on rain teams. But the most important thing is that rain just got a whole lot more manageable with this ban, and I love it.
Also, Blue Harvest is a liar and a thief.
I was desperately hoping you weren't being serious. Thank Arceus for that...
Rain always did have the advantage over sand and sun. Sun will always be at a disadvantage against the others, unfortunately, but at least rain finally got that nerf everyone was hoping for. Even it is a small one...
I've got a rules question. On the Gothitelle page on Smogon it says "the only legal Shadow Tag Gothitelle are male".
Why is this? I've searched everywhere. I can't find anything preventing you from having a female Gothitelle with Shadow Tag, and I can't find any rulings making female ones with it illegal.
According to Bulbapedia's list of released DW Pokemon, Gothorita is available as a promotional release, and it's male only. So in-game, the only available Gothitelle are male.
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So is it going UU? Isn't Nidoking better in UU though?
That'd make Lanturn's usage to hopefully rise, yay! <3
they have varing roles, nidoqueen is far bulkier making her an excellent offensive wall, while nidoking just smashes stuff, and idk about lanturn, tho i dont pay enough attention to RU walls to say for sure, i`m thinking golurk will rise to fill the fighting resistant hole, him or haunter
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What do you guys think of the idea of sleep being banned? Honestly, I find the status effect to be too powerful. It's new mechanics mean that not only will rest talkers to absorb sleep attacks, but also that if you're forced to swap out, you have to start waking the pokemon up all over again. Anything can swap in on a sleeping pokemon, anything can set up on it, and if something like Venusaur or Breloom ends up against something slower, they're pretty much certain to set up if you're not running Gliscor or some flame orb guts user.
I suppose I'm biased since I find Breloom and Venusaur to be extremely annoying, but if it were to go, I'm sure I wouldn't regret supporting the banning. I'm not a good debater, and I'll bet I alone would catch Smogon's attention and still hold a good point.
What do you guys think of the idea of sleep being banned? Honestly, I find the status effect to be too powerful. It's new mechanics mean that not only will rest talkers to absorb sleep attacks, but also that if you're forced to swap out, you have to start waking the pokemon up all over again. Anything can swap in on a sleeping pokemon, anything can set up on it, and if something like Venusaur or Breloom ends up against something slower, they're pretty much certain to set up if you're not running Gliscor or some flame orb guts user.
I suppose I'm biased since I find Breloom and Venusaur to be extremely annoying, but if it were to go, I'm sure I wouldn't regret supporting the banning. I'm not a good debater, and I'll bet I alone would catch Smogon's attention and still hold a good point.
Well, one thing's for sure. If sleep were to be banned, it would surely make a ton of people unhappy, and yes, especially those who love to use sleep-abusers.
That being said, to maintain the "fun" metagame that Smogon says it keeps, if they want to keep as many people as possible, they would probably have to go as far as making two entire metagames, one where sleep is banned and one where sleep isn't. Unlike banning weather or combinations of two or more battle mechanics, where the Pokémon that are affected most by the ban can still use the strategies that they use, but just to a lesser extent, banning sleep pretty much hampers entire strategies around certain Pokémon.
What do you guys think of the idea of sleep being banned? Honestly, I find the status effect to be too powerful. It's new mechanics mean that not only will rest talkers to absorb sleep attacks, but also that if you're forced to swap out, you have to start waking the pokemon up all over again. Anything can swap in on a sleeping pokemon, anything can set up on it, and if something like Venusaur or Breloom ends up against something slower, they're pretty much certain to set up if you're not running Gliscor or some flame orb guts user.
I suppose I'm biased since I find Breloom and Venusaur to be extremely annoying, but if it were to go, I'm sure I wouldn't regret supporting the banning. I'm not a good debater, and I'll bet I alone would catch Smogon's attention and still hold a good point.
Banning all forms of sleep? I think not. However, Spore is a sleep move with 100% accuracy. Almost no other move has the ability to shut down nearly any Pokemon in one turn like that, and the ones that can (OHKO moves) are banned. If Breloom comes in on something that can't outspeed and OHKO it and you have no Espeon/Xatu, something is going to sleep. So, perhaps Spore should be banned, but Venusaur's Sleep Powder has very shaky accuracy and ends up screwing Venusaur over half the time by giving a Heatran or Infernape a free turn to Fire Blast you to hell and back.
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Banning all forms of sleep? I think not. However, Spore is a sleep move with 100% accuracy. Almost no other move has the ability to shut down nearly any Pokemon in one turn like that, and the ones that can (OHKO moves) are banned. If Breloom comes in on something that can't outspeed and OHKO it and you have no Espeon/Xatu, something is going to sleep. So, perhaps Spore should be banned, but Venusaur's Sleep Powder has very shaky accuracy and ends up screwing Venusaur over half the time by giving a Heatran or Infernape a free turn to Fire Blast you to hell and back.
I think they should lower the accuracy of spore instead of banning it. Lowering it to 80% makes it a lot less safe to use, and so less people may want to use it. If they still use it, like many probably will. They have a chance of losing their Breloom after a miss.
Originally Posted by dewhinifier
Happy New Year folks, and congrats to the winners of the sppf competitive poll thingy.
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