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Thread: The viability of stall, and what will dominate the 5th Gen

  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerophoenix View Post
    So basically Shanderaa isn't as much of a threat as half the people here think it to be.

    But we're not just worrying about the little Chandelier. We need to consider other new (and old) offensive threats. I suppose right now that's our priority.
    Well, he'll still be a top tier threat. But as you can se from blue Harvest's (extensive) post, there are many options to counter him. And these are just for stall teams. Offensive momentum should be enough to keep Shanderaa from sweeping easily, and priority will kill it, especially Sucker Punch and Aqua Jet. I can't see him doing much to Rain teams, which I believe will be one of the most common teams around.

  2. #27
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    Oh, so that's gimmicky. Well, then yes. It will have little purpose after that :P

    And I was going to say some things about Mismagius, but due my lack of knowledge on competitive tiers and uses over time, I will hold myself.

  3. #28
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    I just checked Movepools and base HP stats to check who would potentially be the best Wishers with the new mechanics. Aside from the elusive "WishBliss" (which was only available from a NYPC event! Yikes!), the top three Wishers based solely on HP stats alone would be:
    *Mamanbou
    *Wigglytuff (yes, Wigglytuff! -._-.)
    *Vaporeon

    Any thoughts on this?

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  4. #29
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    Vaporeon + Hydration + Wish + Rain Based Team= Pure awesomeness for stall. <3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ungoliath View Post
    Vaporeon + Hydration + Wish + Rain Based Team= Pure awesomeness for stall. <3
    Mamanbou says hello. It also has Hydration and has more Support moves including, but not limited to, Wish, Wide Guard and Heal Beam (think Double & Triple Battles).

    And it has more base HP and Defense (but not Sp.Defense, unfortunately) than Vappy.

  6. #31

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    Stall won't be that viable until the meta settles down and then random **** threats are banned.

    Then it'll bounce back up and kill everything <3

  7. #32
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    Hahakurimo#542
    That pokemon my look like nothing but WOW!
    I found something REAL usefell on that pokemon its worth checking out.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruben Claessen View Post
    Hahakurimo#542
    That pokemon my look like nothing but WOW!
    I found something REAL usefell on that pokemon its worth checking out.
    With an okay movepool ... and stats that are just piss not (with over 135's floating around like candy) this thing won't even see OU in its future.
    My Pokemon Black Team (Coming Spring 2011)
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxrayess View Post
    I just checked Movepools and base HP stats to check who would potentially be the best Wishers with the new mechanics. Aside from the elusive "WishBliss" (which was only available from a NYPC event! Yikes!), the top three Wishers based solely on HP stats alone would be:
    *Mamanbou
    *Wigglytuff (yes, Wigglytuff! -._-.)
    *Vaporeon

    Any thoughts on this?
    Bumping this in hopes of some response...

    I believe Blue Harvest has taken a liking to Mamanbou if I remember right...

    //COMIC//JAY TANAKA//

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  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxrayess View Post
    Bumping this in hopes of some response...

    I believe Blue Harvest has taken a liking to Mamanbou if I remember right...
    Blissey will be useful just because of the massive amounts of HP that it will be able to pass. Vaporeon and Mamanbou will be useful for their Water typing and the ability to switch into certain attacks. I personally think that they will both have different uses. Mamanbou has more physical bulk and HP, but that big SpD drop hurts. And it doesn't possess the raw power to hit stuff like Vaporeon does. My thoughts.

    And did anyone else initially think that Mamanbou was a new form for Luvdisc?

  11. #36
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    I'm still convinced its a Luvdisc evo. I'm in denial.

    If you max Luvdisc evo's Special Defense it actually takes Special hits quite well. I had a spread before that I forgot but its similar to Vaporeon's bulk IIRC.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerophoenix View Post
    With an okay movepool ... and stats that are just piss not (with over 135's floating around like candy) this thing won't even see OU in its future.
    Well thats remains to be seen the game is not even out for U.S. or Europa.

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruben Claessen View Post
    Well thats remains to be seen the game is not even out for U.S. or Europa.
    It doesn't take a genius to see that something with a god awful typing, well below average stats, and no way to get passed Steel types isn't going to be OU.
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  14. #39
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    A minor correction: Hahakomori's base stat total is 491, and the average overall for fully-evolved Pokémon is 497.2. So while it's below average, it isn't well below average.

  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    A minor correction: Hahakomori's base stat total is 491, and the average overall for fully-evolved Pok&#233;mon is 497.2. So while it's below average, it isn't well below average.
    I was mainly referring to OU standards there. Not to mention its individual stats just aren't up to par.75/80/70 defenses don't go very far, especially with the typing it has. 92 Speed is much too slow for it to stand out. 103 Attack is its best stat, though sadly it won't be sweeping teams unless the opponent is a total idiot. Most physcial sweepers have somewhere between 110 and 135. This gen there are some with even higher Attack stats, so OU standards will definately be more demanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaveli
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  16. #41
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    Heh, I know you were referring to OU in particular. Though I'm sure you knew I wasn't being serious. (I should go and calculate the ones for Smogon's OU at this moment and see what it is.)

  17. #42
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    If Kyuremu somehow isn't banned, he'll stall quite well with sub and dragon tail, in conjunction with spikes and rocks. I don't think anyone else has a big enough hp and defensive stats to replicate that though.

  18. #43
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    Kyuremu probably won't be seen on stall, but its a decent lead with Frozen World's speed drops and its an ok Choice Specs user since it can easily switch in on Bulky Waters.

    Otherwise its a totally underwhelming Pokemon.

  19. #44
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    In the uber front he cant really stall I guess but on shoddy he's not banned yet so whatever.

  20. #45
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    What? He can't stall anywhere. Hes ok at a few things, but stalling isn't one of them.

  21. #46

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    Defensive Garchomp is better than Kyuremu on stall.

    Just sayin.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    What? He can't stall anywhere. Hes ok at a few things, but stalling isn't one of them.
    Behind a sub with dragon tail and with a lot of entry hazards he can. But as Epic eevee said a defensive Garchomp is better.

  23. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by ryandcow7 View Post
    Behind a sub with dragon tail and with a lot of entry hazards he can. But as Epic eevee said a defensive Garchomp is better.
    Well, a lot of Pokemon can do that. Kyurem has too many problems to stall effectively. His horrible defensive typing gives him a weakness to several common types, as well as Stealth Rock and some common priority moves, and also Dragon, which is dangerous considering that he is outsped by all Dragons except Dragonite and non-rain Kingdra (unlikely). He also lacks reliable recovery, with only Rest and no Sleep Talk. Even if you wanted to run a ChestoRest set, his horrible defensive typing and lack of a good boosting move (outside if Hone Claws) will let you down. Kyurem is a nice offensive Poke, but not a staller.

    I really would like to meet someone who still thinks that stall is dead. The Burunkuru/Nattorie combo is really nice, even if everyone says it's overrated. Gliscor is great with Poison Heal, even if it has lost Roost. Porygon-2 is pretty good with an Evo Stone, as is Chansey (although Blissey's ability to carry Leftovers really helps it stall). And Sableye...well, don't even get me started on Sableye.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    I really would like to meet someone who still thinks that stall is dead. The Burunkuru/Nattorie combo is really nice, even if everyone says it's overrated. Gliscor is great with Poison Heal, even if it has lost Roost. Porygon-2 is pretty good with an Evo Stone, as is Chansey (although Blissey's ability to carry Leftovers really helps it stall). And Sableye...well, don't even get me started on Sableye.
    True story. With the broken **** (Darkrai/Skymin/Deoxys) being banned, I definitely see a big rise in the use of stall, as those guys were just a big kick in the nads to stall before.
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  25. #50

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    Also I feel the need to mention that a huge portion of the "successful" stall based teams that I've seen posted are pretty much destroyed by SD Terakion.

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