MLB Baseball Thread

[Joltik-Kid]

And Mike Illitch proves once again why he's the best owner in sports (cue Lions "fans" crying about why Ford can't fire Schwartz and pay that much money to get Jon Gruden to coach them). Sanchez stays with the Tigers with a 5 year, $80 million deal. They overpaid, but they need him.

I agree that we overpaided him... hopefully the Sanchez that pitched the last 2 months of the 2012 season shows up all of 2013 and more. Gotta wonder now though... do we move Drew or Rick to the pen? Could work out well if Fister or Scherzer get injured early again. I really don't see them needing any other players at this point as Jhonny is likely staying the SS. I'm hopeful that the Tigers actually perform this year

[TheWatersGreatGuardian]

And Mike Illitch proves once again why he's the best owner in sports (cue Lions "fans" crying about why Ford can't fire Schwartz and pay that much money to get Jon Gruden to coach them). Sanchez stays with the Tigers with a 5 year, $80 million deal. They overpaid, but they need him.

I'd say the crew in Tampa Bay have done a pretty great job with far less resources. Look at the deal they just got out of Longoria for example.

[Golden_Latias]

I agree that we overpaided him... hopefully the Sanchez that pitched the last 2 months of the 2012 season shows up all of 2013 and more. Gotta wonder now though... do we move Drew or Rick to the pen? Could work out well if Fister or Scherzer get injured early again. I really don't see them needing any other players at this point as Jhonny is likely staying the SS. I'm hopeful that the Tigers actually perform this year

Nah, the Tigers still need a closer, because I don't fully trust an unproven rookie to be the Tigers closer. I don't care how good Rondon has looked in the minors.

I say trade Rick for some minor league guys and start Drew. The Tigers have a horrible farm system (though it's certainly not the worst), and don't get me wrong, Rick's not a bad pitcher. He just needs a good defense behind him, and that's something the Tigers just don't have, even with Torii Hunter.
Although you do raise a good point about Fister or Scherzer getting injured. :/ Especially Fister. I've heard injuries like the one he had last season are not uncommon among taller pitchers (correct me if I'm wrong).

I think the Tigers will be fine this year, considering how weak the rest of the AL Central is and the fact that a huge injury bug early on in the season is a big part of the reason why they weren't in the running for the division for the entire season. Unless another big injury bug happens, I see them winning the AL Central rather easily this year.

I'd say the crew in Tampa Bay have done a pretty great job with far less resources. Look at the deal they just got out of Longoria for example.

Nothing against what Tampa has done, of course. They're a solid team I think has a shot at winning the AL East. Also, I said in sports, not just baseball. Illitch owns the Red Wings, too.

[woot21]

Nothing against what Tampa has done, of course. They're a solid team I think has a shot at winning the AL East. Also, I said in sports, not just baseball. Illitch owns the Red Wings, too.

I'm going out on a limb and saying that being an NHL owner automatically disqualifies him from that discussion then. Currently, there are no good NHL owners, seeing as how both them and the players are currently killing the league.

[Joltik-Kid]

Nah, the Tigers still need a closer, because I don't fully trust an unproven rookie to be the Tigers closer. I don't care how good Rondon has looked in the minors.

I say trade Rick for some minor league guys and start Drew. The Tigers have a horrible farm system (though it's certainly not the worst), and don't get me wrong, Rick's not a bad pitcher. He just needs a good defense behind him, and that's something the Tigers just don't have, even with Torii Hunter.
Although you do raise a good point about Fister or Scherzer getting injured. :/ Especially Fister. I've heard injuries like the one he had last season are not uncommon among taller pitchers (correct me if I'm wrong).

I think the Tigers will be fine this year, considering how weak the rest of the AL Central is and the fact that a huge injury bug early on in the season is a big part of the reason why they weren't in the running for the division for the entire season. Unless another big injury bug happens, I see them winning the AL Central rather easily this year.

Oh right the Closer role... there's not really any proven Closer's in Free Agency, at least none that were gonna pay for... So I'm not sure. Only thing is both Rick and Drew need to develop certain aspects of their game, in Rick's case, a strike-out pitch. Besides if we move one of them to the pen, we'll have a proven pitcher for long relief and someone to take over in case of injuries instead of bring up some unproven talent. If I remember correctly, I think Fister also had some injuries during his career with the Mariners... Either way, if Fister and Scherzer can maintain the dominance they had down the stretch (and stay healthy)... then the Tigers will have the best 1-2-3 pitchers in 2013.

P.S. Rick has the same number of wins as Sanchez with less years playing in the game... I find that pretty interesting

[woot21]

For the closer discussion there is one out there on the market though, for a price. The Pirates are shopping Hanrahan for a possible trade. Though I doubt the Tigers would be willing to give up a starter for him.

[BCVM22]

P.S. Rick has the same number of wins as Sanchez with less years playing in the game... I find that pretty interesting

You shouldn't. Wins are meaningless.

[Joltik-Kid]

You shouldn't. Wins are meaningless.

Why aren't they... are you saying if someone was in the League for 6 years but only had 30 wins and 60 loses that he would be one of the Top free agents?

The reason I find it interesting is because it's rare to meet anyone who thinks Porcello is a good pitcher, let alone a Tiger fan that admits it.

[BCVM22]

Why aren't they... are you saying if someone was in the League for 6 years but only had 30 wins and 60 loses that he would be one of the Top free agents?

I didn't say anything of the sort, particularly since what makes any one player one of the "Top free agents" as much to do with what position he plays and what teams have needs and money to spend.

I said wins are a meaningless stat. A guy can pitch his *** off and take the loss or get smacked around and still theoretically get a win. Granted, the former happens more often than the latter, but that should discount much if not most of the validity of the stat as a worthwhile metric by which to evaluate a player.

My point was that there are so many more pitching stats to look at than just wins, from stuff like K/9 and BB/9 and the trends therein, K:BB ratio, HR numbers, line drive percentage, fly ball percentage, ground ball percentage to advanced stats like ERA+ and FIP/xFIP. Any few of those will tell you more about a pitcher than how many times he pitched well enough and his team scored enough runs that he was awarded a "W" - essentially all that a win is - and the best teams will look at all of those stats and more alongside video and scouting to tell them whether a pitcher is worth it or not. How many wins he has will be only the most ancillary part of the discussion, if that.

[Joltik-Kid]

I didn't say anything of the sort, particularly since what makes any one player one of the "Top free agents" as much to do with what position he plays and what teams have needs and money to spend.

I said wins are a meaningless stat. A guy can pitch his *** off and take the loss or get smacked around and still theoretically get a win. Granted, the former happens more often than the latter, but that should discount much if not most of the validity of the stat as a worthwhile metric by which to evaluate a player.

My point was that there are so many more pitching stats to look at than just wins, from stuff like K/9 and BB/9 and the trends therein, K:BB ratio, HR numbers, line drive percentage, fly ball percentage, ground ball percentage to advanced stats like ERA+ and FIP/xFIP. Any few of those will tell you more about a pitcher than how many times he pitched well enough and his team scored enough runs that he was awarded a "W" - essentially all that a win is - and the best teams will look at all of those stats and more alongside video and scouting to tell them whether a pitcher is worth it or not. How many wins he has will be only the most ancillary part of the discussion, if that.

Oh I see what you meant now ^^;... Unfortunately, wins still mean something by today's standards, as that's what a few sports analysis were talking about in Sanchez's case for the Tigers (radio)

[BCVM22]

Unfortunately, wins still mean something by today's standards

Decreasingly so and appropriately so.

as that's what a few sports analysis were talking about in Sanchez's case for the Tigers (radio)

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Joltik-Kid]

Decreasingly so and appropriately so.

I do admit the old ways of thinking do need to change, not swiftly, but as you seem to imply, one step at a time

I'm sorry to hear that.

Doesn't really affect me

[BCVM22]

I do admit the old ways of thinking do need to change, not swiftly, but as you seem to imply, one step at a time

It's a mindset that's shown increasing change for the better in recent years. Felix Hernandez winning the Cy Young in 2010, when he had just about every number to his name save win/loss record, is proof of that.

[woot21]

To interject in the "wins" debate, let's look at a pitcher who last season had a 5 decision winning streak in June and July, and saw his ERA go up. So, was he a better pitcher during that streak, lucky during it, unlucky before hand, traded to a better team, some combination of the above, or did he move to the bullpen? Answer, he was lucky during the streak, and unlucky (somewhat) beforehand. He wasn't traded, didn't move to the bullpen, and certainly didn't become a better pitcher. That pitcher was Kevin Corriea, who the Twins recently signed. In fact, he had a record of 4-0 in July, with a 5.04 ERA. Went 1-1 in April, with a 2.42 ERA, went 1-2 in August with a 4.01 ERA, 2-3 in September with a 3.99 ERA. That alone should tell you how much wins mean. Let's look at another Pirates pitcher, when discussing the values of wins.

James McDonald. Before the All-Star break he was 9-3. In those 3 loses the Pirates scored a combined 0 runs. In fact in one of those losses, he had the lone Pirates hit. In fact he gave up 5 runs in 19.2 innings, for an ERA of 2.29 in those losses. Are you going to tell me that it is McDonald's fault that the Pirates lost those 3 games?

[PsychicPsycho]

Dickey's now with the Blue Jays. I'm glad to see him leave the Mets, who I don't really like, and glad to see the Jays get stronger (theoretically), since I've never seen them be any good.

[TheWatersGreatGuardian]

Dickey's now with the Blue Jays. I'm glad to see him leave the Mets, who I don't really like, and glad to see the Jays get stronger (theoretically), since I've never seen them be any good.

We'll see, the Marlins did something along these lines last year.

[woot21]

Next year will be Dickey's 38 year old season. You can argue it won't matter since he is a knuckleballer, except he doesn't throw a typical knuckleball. His hits 80 MPH, whereas Wakefield was topping out at 60 on it, and 75 on his fastball. So age can be a big factor in Dickey's performance next year, and down the line.