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Thread: Triple Leaders, Team Threats! (664)

  1. #226
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    It's also because Ash going with a speedy electric type was something Cress was prepared for, as a lot of beginning trainers have probably tried the same thing. And, no offense or anything, but Pikachu being an electric type doesn't matter much if he doesn't even land a single hit. But yeah, Cress's speedy attacks did impress.

    Honestly Pansage may have actually pulled out the weakest gym battle out of the three.

    Loved the episode too, by the way. I'm glad Ash wasn't completely reset as you can see by his strategizing here that he does know what he's doing. I am a bit sad at Pikachu's one-sided loss, and the fact that this was the only real interesting gym battle so far, but I can't complain.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thing View Post
    How do you know for sure that Panpour is weaker? It only had a type disadvantage. Just because someone has a Pokemon doesn't automatically make it weaker than Pikachu.
    I'm basing this off several factors:

    Pikachu has been in the show for 600-odd episodes.

    Earlier on it was "super-charged" not only making it stronger, but also allowing it to hold its own against Pokémon with a resistance to its electricity.

    It has battled MANY opponent's, some of them rare and sometimes legendary.

    The same Pikachu that managed to tie with a Latios; a legendary Pokémon who had no type disadvantage to it.

    We are actually given reasons to see how strong Pikachu is or should be, while we can only guess how long Panpour has been battling putting its strength into doubt. If it were battling against a fairly low-level Grass or Electric type, it winning would be more believable, but not against a Pokémon of Pikachu's strength and calibre.


    Beating a basic, unevolved Pokémon with a type disadvantage should be the LEAST of what Pikachu is capable of by now. It's not like I'm claiming shenanigans on a difficult battle where Pikachu could actually lose, but a battle where it had CLEAR advantage.

    I don't see how I'm being unreasonable here, though people's responses would suggest I am.

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammiedodger View Post
    I'm basing this off several factors:

    Pikachu has been in the show for 600-odd episodes.

    Earlier on it was "super-charged" not only making it stronger, but also allowing it to hold its own against Pokémon with a resistance to its electricity.

    It has battled MANY opponent's, some of them rare and sometimes legendary.

    The same Pikachu that managed to tie with a Latios; a legendary Pokémon who had no type disadvantage to it.

    We are actually given reasons to see how strong Pikachu is or should be, while we can only guess how long Panpour has been battling putting its strength into doubt. If it were battling against a fairly low-level Grass or Electric type, it winning would be more believable, but not against a Pokémon of Pikachu's strength and calibre.


    Beating a basic, unevolved Pokémon with a type disadvantage should be the LEAST of what Pikachu is capable of by now. It's not like I'm claiming shenanigans on a difficult battle where Pikachu could actually lose, but a battle where it had CLEAR advantage.

    I don't see how I'm being unreasonable here, though people's responses would suggest I am.
    It's not that you're being unreasonable, it's that you're thinking logically. You can't think about Pokemon logically because it doesn't make any sense anyway.

    I know that Pikachu has been trained like crazy, and that he's supposed to be amazing in battle, but his power can't keep going up and up. Imagine you trained a Pikachu in, say, Pokemon Yellow, and then you somehow managed to bring it through all the regions. By the time you get to Unova, your Pikachu is a really high level. So you get to the first Gym Leaders. Here's where the problem is. You face them, and KO ALL of them in 1 hit. Then you travel on to the next leader. 1 hit. Then you eventually make it to the Elite Four-- piece of cake. You just beat the entire game like it was nothing with your Pikachu. If this really happened in the anime, it would be boring! Think about it.
    Ash: Pikachu, Thundabolt!
    Pikachu: PIIIIIIIIIIKAAAAAAA!!!!
    Ash: I just beat Zekrom! :3 Imma CATCH ITTT!
    *Beats up everything with Pikachu and Zekrom*
    Iris: ...um... (I can't call him a kid...) Uh...
    Cilan: ..........I guess I'll..... go.
    THE END



    This is why Pikachu couldn't beat Panpour.
    Ah, yes, I probably just said something stupid there, didn't I? Not surprising, I've been called an idiot on multiple occasions, although I do consider myself to be more intelligent than most...

  4. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammiedodger View Post
    I'm basing this off several factors:

    Pikachu has been in the show for 600-odd episodes.

    Earlier on it was "super-charged" not only making it stronger, but also allowing it to hold its own against Pokémon with a resistance to its electricity.

    It has battled MANY opponent's, some of them rare and sometimes legendary.

    The same Pikachu that managed to tie with a Latios; a legendary Pokémon who had no type disadvantage to it.

    We are actually given reasons to see how strong Pikachu is or should be, while we can only guess how long Panpour has been battling putting its strength into doubt. If it were battling against a fairly low-level Grass or Electric type, it winning would be more believable, but not against a Pokémon of Pikachu's strength and calibre.


    Beating a basic, unevolved Pokémon with a type disadvantage should be the LEAST of what Pikachu is capable of by now. It's not like I'm claiming shenanigans on a difficult battle where Pikachu could actually lose, but a battle where it had CLEAR advantage.

    I don't see how I'm being unreasonable here, though people's responses would suggest I am.
    I wouldn't say you're being unreasonable, but like someone else said, Corn is older than Ash, so he probably had Panpour a lot longer.

    Maybe if he evolved it into Simipour, it could beat Zekrom.
    Quote Originally Posted by SnugNBouncy View Post
    hah! agreed. thats a little bit pathetic for ash's pumped up pikachu...
    Aw come on....Tepig and Oshawott needed to win and that means Pikachu has to lose. There's no other way.
    ------------------

    The gym battle was ok, except for the Oshawott vs Pansage one which looked like comic relief. I liked the Tepig vs Pansear battle more than the other two, mostly because Panpour looked like it was enjoying using scratch on Pikachu WAY too much, and Pikachu should have at least damaged Panpour with Thunderbolt or Volt Tackle before losing to the monkey IMO. 7/10
    Last edited by BurningSociety12345543210; 23rd September 2011 at 11:38 PM.

  5. #230
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    Ash did the same thing I did in this episode and that's loosing to cress's panpour man Did I hate that monkey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebattleforntierash View Post
    Ash did the same thing I did in this episode and that's loosing to cress's panpour man Did I hate that monkey.
    Really? I was able to beat Panpour with my Tepig. You just have to train Tepig until it learns Flame Charge and spam it against Lillipup. You should be fast enough to outspeed Panpour.

    Or....you could use Pansage.....

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    Even though I don't really like the anime anymore, I watched the dub of this episode over a year ago mainly because I wanted to know how to pronounce Cilan's name. I was really impressed by Cress and Panpour - I figured that Ash was going to lose to him after beating Chili, but I didn't think Pikachu would get totally owned like that. I also liked how the Striaton leaders were portrayed - the were *so* fabulous!
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  8. #233
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    I'm usually not very into the gym battle episodes because I can't stop telling Ash what I think he should do. Like I wanted him to have Pikachu zap Panpour's water gun since water conducts electricity and, in theory, would travel to the little monkey. But nope. And poor Pidove - no chance to shine.

    On the more positive side, it's nice to meet Cilan, whose all poetic and such. I liked all the gym leaders, rational but adding some flair to their commands. And, maybe I'm just imagining things, but when Tepig went in for its final tackle, his voice, going "Tepig, Tepig, Tepig..." kinda synced with the music.

    Oh, and kinda irrelevant, but I had pork with a side of broccoli for dinner after watching this. Made me think of Tepig and Pansage. ^_^ Yeah, I'm kinda weird.
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  9. #234
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    After re-watching this episode a 2nd time, wow Tepig was so fired up before/during/after the battle. He just loves it. Panpour really looked as if no Electric Pokemon at all was going to defeat him, not even Pikachu obviously.
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  10. #235
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    Woo-hooooo, the debut of Cilan! Before his episodes came to the U.S., I was really reluctant to accept him as part of the twerp group because I'm such a big Brock fan, but Cilan has won me over a great deal. I may not like him as much as Brock, but Cilan is just plain fun to watch, especially when he gets excited over things.

    It's odd that of all the regions Ash has been in, this is the third time he hasn't faced a rock gym right off the bat (fourth if you count the Battle Frontier). Just Cissy in the Orange Islands and Faulkner in Johto weren't rock-type gym leaders. It feels like he faces a rock gym first EVERY region, doesn't it?

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    Cilan, Chili and Cress are so darn fabulous~ I love them. Cilan is totally a fun character. The one thing that irked me was Pikachu, who a few episodes earlier took down a Latios, was knocked out by a Panpour. I know Pikachu always gets a "reset" but it's really unrealistic. A great episode though, the battles were fun to watch! The Leaders' cheerleaders were a nice addition.
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  12. #237
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    It's been a long time since there's been a great episode, and may I just say the beginning of BW really delivered as it always did. Mamoru Miyano was incredible as Dent, Rica Matsumoto as Satoshi, etc.

    For the dub, I expected the worst. That's right: Bill Rogers as Cilan (who, FYI, I was expecting to use his DP Brock voice for). Luckily enough TPCi pulled a 360 and actually cared not to cast him here. Instead, we have Jason Griffith, a a VA from 4Kids. I am not a fan of his (not a hater either). He's OK at the role, though definitely not the best for it IMHO. Sarah Natochenny's Ash regresses at times to her late DP voice, which isn't a good thing for her. It's poor in this episode. One of the cheerleaders sounds like Dawn, and it's painful on the ears "me neither!" Iris dub voice, meanwhile, is better than usual here for Stevens. Good episode for her.

    Sub: 80/100
    Dub: 65/100 (Standout: Eli James' Chili)

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    Nothing special about this episode other than Cilan's first appearence. An ordinary old gym battle. Tepig VS Pansear was probably the best part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquarelle View Post
    Even though I don't really like the anime anymore, I watched the dub of this episode over a year ago mainly because I wanted to know how to pronounce Cilan's name. I was really impressed by Cress and Panpour - I figured that Ash was going to lose to him after beating Chili, but I didn't think Pikachu would get totally owned like that. I also liked how the Striaton leaders were portrayed - the were *so* fabulous!
    This is why I wanted Cress to be the one to travel with Ash. Cilan did nothing but arrogantly parade around because of the whole type thing. I would have also rather Chili as well seeing as though he needed some confidence from losing so much afterwards. Seeing trainers struggle to get better is more interesting than those who don't.

    My ideal battle ever!

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    Enjoyed this episode. Glad that Cilan joined the group and I liked the battles, for the most part.

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    you think the gym leaders would of been compared for a all 3 battles

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    It seems that more often than not when Ash uses something effective against a gym leader he ends up losing that battle.
    It seems he should just stick to having the disadvantage/using, at the very least, the same type and he'd win easily.

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  18. #243
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    Default Pikachu should have won his match

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayfan View Post
    Yeah, Pikachu LOST! Not only is it an electric type, but it just tied with a Latios at the end of a previous saga. It should not lose to a water type.
    I agree. This episode was extremely disappointing for that reason. Pikachu should not have lost that easily to a Panpour of all Pokémon and certainly not to the first gym leader, particularly when inexperienced Oshawott managed to pull off the win against Pansage. It makes Pikachu look a lot weaker than he actually is and was a poor start to Ash's Unova journey. It was almost hard to watch poor Pikachu take that much of a beating. In many ways it's bad writing on the writers part. Pikachu is Ash's closet and most relied upon partner. There is no reason why he should loose to a Panpour which he has an advantage against when Tepig, who as show to be weak an malnourished in the previous episode was able to pull of a win. Oshawott I can understand - Throughout the series he did show himself to be a competent and powerful fighter - sort of Ash's wildcard. But he was still a starter Pokémon with limited experience. For him and Tepig to win while Pikachu looses quite badly (Panpour didn't take any damage) is dare I say it, wrong. It makes Panpour and Cress look incredibly overpowered compared to the other 2 leader, which seems inaccurate given that all three have the same level in the games Black and White.

    A better way to have done the episode would be to have Pikachu win the first match instead of Tepig and Tepig loose the second or have Oshawott loose the second match. Preferably Oshawott should have lost the second round and Pikachu win the decisive battle. I suppose they did it to build suspense. I can understand that it was a way of capturing the audiences attention but given Pikachu is probably Ash's strongest Pokémon, his most experienced Pokémon and his closest friends it's not unreasonable to give them an easy victory once in a while. Ash winning all three battles is hardly inconceivable even if it would have been somewhat less interesting to watch. There is no need to pick on Pikachu to build suspense.

    To some extent this battle seemed to cast a shadow on the progress Ash had made during the Sinnoh arch - Had he used one of his other Pokémon such as Buizel or Gible he could have beaten Pansage and Pansear quite easily. I do have to question the wisdom of only taking Pikachu to each new region and why Ash couldn't used some of his older Pokémon, at least initially for the early gyms when he starts a new region. He did after all take his Kanto Pokémon to Johto with him and rotated them as he caught new ones. That makes more sense than starting a gym battle with Oshawott and Tepig he hadn't really battled with before. Ironically however it seems that it was his most experienced Pokémon whom was defeated in this episode and defeated badly at that rather than his two inexperienced partners.

    On the positive side, the bit where Pikachu is feeling disappointed because of his loss, but cheers up when Ash encourages him was very cute, even if painful to watch - I feel very sorry for Pikachu in this series. He got used as a punching bag way too often and wasn't given enough opportunity to show off his true power and his bond with Ash. It was also funny watching Oshawott try to avoid battle and Pikachu and Ash pushing him back onto the field. Overall quite disappointing due to Pikachu's loss. Pikachu should have won that battle.
    Last edited by Pikachu52; 30th January 2015 at 2:22 PM.
    This is a story about Ash Ketchum and his loving partner Pikachu. These two share a bond far beyond that of ordinary pokemon and trainer. Together they pursue Ash's dream to be pokemon master and make friends with many different people and pokemon along the way. He and Pikachu train everyday to make this happen to fulfill their dream. But the path to victory is lined with danger. There are many challenges ahead for this couple.




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  19. #244

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    Pikachu was very disappointing here, but it's nothing new. Tepig and Oshawott did well but I feel they did a little too well. Tepig, who was labeled a weak Pokemon was able to take multiple ground type attacks and still beat Pansear, which didn't feel right. My thoughts on the Cilan battle and this gym as a whole are in the Dreams By The Yard Full thread, since the battle continues into that episode.

    This episode introduces Cilan though which is great because he's a cool character.


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    Pretty great introduction to Cilan, one of the best parts of BW easily.

    Honestly, complaining about pikachu being nerfed is so unbelieably overdone by this point tbh, so I wont even touch on it too late

    Tepig's battle was pretty neato IMO tho, I liked to see it do well, althrough it's moveset at the time was less than impressive.

    Ash picking to fight all three of the gym leaders was a great character moment for him too.

    9/10, another superb episode.

  21. #246

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    I liked Iris' teasing and Oshawott was funny as well. The gym battle could have been better as it seemed pretty mediocre to me. The bgm was good as usual though.

    I rate this episode 7/10

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    Finally Ash got to challenge the first Unova gym but man I wish Cilan had been his only opponent cuz I didn't like Cress or Chili that much. The fangirls and Iris's commentary were fun however and so was Pansage vs Oshawott. ^^

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    Type matchups seemed reversed in this episode. I didn't expect both Tepig to win against Pansear and Pikachu to lose against Panpour. But at least we got to see Cilan's debut.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JudySpell View Post
    Pikachu didn't need the win as much as Tepid did, so I didn't mind that things ended up that way honestly.
    Hmmm well I can see the logic behind that. I think some of us just didn't want to see Pikachu end up as the 'fall guy' so soon in Best Wishes, but I liked Pansear vs Tepig regardless. ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Oreo View Post
    Hmmm well I can see the logic behind that. I think some of us just didn't want to see Pikachu end up as the 'fall guy' so soon in Best Wishes, but I liked Pansear vs Tepig regardless. ^^
    Pikachu should never had been the fall guy at all and certainly not here. The biggest problem with the BW series was that it made Pikachu the 'fall guy' too often and in too many important battles, most disastrously in the final of the Don Tournament but also against Cameron's Lucario.

    That considered, this episode is an unmitigated disaster in terms of inconsistencies and unfairness to the protagonists. First having Ash decided to challenge all three gym leaders made him look like childish and thoughtless. Especially since he won his first battle, which should have immediately entitled him to the gym badge. The terms of the challenge are you choose a gym leader and only have to beat that leader. That rule shouldn't change just because Ash wanted to battle all three. Pikachu loosing the second battle (which is utter BS) ends up reflecting poorly on both of them simply because if Ash had just simply chosen to battle Chili he would have the badge and there wouldn't have been a sudden death match between Oshawott and Pansage.

    Secondly, as I've documented previously the battle between Pikachu and Panpour as BS. Pikachu is the Pokémon that can defeat a Latios and tie with a Regice. I don't care how well experienced Cress might have been dealing with electric types, Pikachu does NOT loose to weak Pokémon like Panpour and certainly not without landing a single hit. Rubbish writing designed only to glorify Oshawott and Tepig. And how exactly did Cress and Panpour become that good; They've done the same amount of training as Cilan and Chili and their partners yet both Pansage and Pansear go down to a untrained and hyperactive Oshawott (against whom it has a type advantage) and a Tepig that was dying of malnutrition only an episode previous and whom Ash had never battled with before. This is inconsistent to the point of being unbelievable.

    Third, just how did Oshawott and Tepig get so strong. Tepig had a previous trainer, so it's not a stretch to consider that he probably had some battle experience, but Ash had never used him before so he didn't really know how to work with him effectively. Oshawott on the other hand is a starter who had probably never been in a battle, other than that fight with Team Rocket. How does he become so skilled as to beat a Pansage who had been a leaders Pokémon for as long as the Panpour that defeated Pikachu. It doesn't make sense.

    This battle was absolutely botched. The first Gym battle should give Pikachu the spotlight. Pikachu was the best Pokémon in that gym and he got robbed here. Thank Arceus that XY is finally giving Pikachu the glory he deserves.
    This is a story about Ash Ketchum and his loving partner Pikachu. These two share a bond far beyond that of ordinary pokemon and trainer. Together they pursue Ash's dream to be pokemon master and make friends with many different people and pokemon along the way. He and Pikachu train everyday to make this happen to fulfill their dream. But the path to victory is lined with danger. There are many challenges ahead for this couple.




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