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Thread: Pokemon Online's first 5th gen 'OU' List

  1. #1

    Default Pokemon Online and Smogon Tiers

    Updated May 2nd
    Pokemon Online's Tiers (Wifi)

    Ubers
    Code:
    Arceus 
    Darkrai
    Deoxys-A
    Dialga
    Giratina
    Giratina-O
    Groudon
    Ho-Oh
    Kyogre
    Lugia
    Manaphy
    Mewtwo
    Palkia
    Rayquaza
    Reshiram
    Shaymin-S
    Zekrom
    OU
    Code:
    Blaziken
    Blissey
    Breloom
    Chandelure
    Cloyster
    Conkeldurr
    Dragonite
    Excadrill
    Ferrothorn
    Forretress
    Garchomp
    Gengar
    Gliscor
    Gyarados
    Haxorus
    Heatran
    Hippowdon
    Hydreigon
    Infernape
    Jellicent
    Jirachi
    Kingdra
    Landorus
    Latios
    Machamp
    Magnezone
    Metagross
    Mienshao
    Ninetales
    Politoed
    Porygon2
    Reuniclus
    Rotom-W
    Salamence
    Scizor
    Scrafty
    Skarmory
    Starmie
    Swampert
    Tentacruel
    Terrakion
    Thundurus
    Toxicroak
    Tyranitar
    Vaporeon
    Volcarona
    Zapdos
    Zoroark
    BL
    Code:
    Azelf, Chansey, Deoxys, Deoxys-S, Kyurem, Latias, Mew, Vulpix
    UU
    Code:
    Abomasnow, Alakazam, Altaria, Ambipom, Arcanine, Azelf, Azumarill, 
    Bisharp, Blastoise, Bronzong, Charizard, Claydol, Clefable, Cofagrigus, Crobat, 
    Darmanitan, Deoxys-D, Donphan, Drapion, Durant, Dusclops, Dusknoir, Electivire, Empoleon, 
    Escavalier, Espeon, Flygon, Froslass, Gallade, Galvantula, Golurk, Heracross, 
    Hippopotas, Hitmontop, Houndoom, Jolteon, Krookodile, Lucario, Ludicolo, Mamoswine, Mandibuzz, 
    Milotic, Mismagius, Nidoking, Porygon-Z, Raikou, Registeel, 
    Rhyperior, Roserade, Rotom-H, Sceptile, Shaymin, Sigilyph, Slowbro, Snorlax, 
    Spiritomb, Staraptor, Steelix, Suicune, Swellow, Tangrowth, Togekiss, 
    Uxie, Venomoth, Venusaur, Virizion, Weavile, Weezing, Yanmega
    Added May 2nd
    Smogon's Tiers

    Uber
    Code:
    Arceus
    Blaziken
    Darkrai
    Deoxys-A
    Deoxys
    Dialga
    Giratina
    Giratina-O
    Groudon
    Ho-Oh
    Kyogre
    Lugia
    Manaphy
    Mewtwo
    Palkia
    Rayquaza
    Reshiram
    Shaymin-S
    Zekrom
    OU
    Code:
    Ferrothorn 
    Tyranitar 
    Scizor
    Garchomp
    Gliscor
    Latios
    Excadrill
    Reuniclus
    Heatran
    Rotom-W
    Conkeldurr
    Jirachi
    Politoed
    Dragonite
    Thundurus
    Gengar
    Jellicent
    Skarmory
    Volcarona
    Starmie
    Gyarados
    Hydreigon
    Forretress
    Blissey 
    Infernape 
    Ninetales
    Vaporeon 
    Salamence
    Breloom 
    Chandelure 
    Scrafty
    Tentacruel 
    Metagross 
    Terrakion
    Swampert 
    Haxorus
    Lucario 
    Cloyster 
    Hippowdon 
    Magnezone
    Deoxys-S
    Machamp 
    Landorus 
    Whimsicott 
    Latias 
    Bronzong
    Mienshao 
    Darmanitan 
    Toxicroak
    Virizion 
    Venusaur
    Porygon2 
    Tornadus
    Added May 2nd
    Differences between Smogon and PO (Wifi)

    Code:
    Blaziken          OU on PO, Uber on Smogon
    Deoxys          BL on PO, Uber on Smogon
    Kingdra          OU on PO, UU on Smogon
    Zapdos          OU on PO, UU on Smogon
    Zoroark          OU on PO, UU on Smogon
    Lucario          UU on PO, OU on Smogon
    Deoxys-S          BL on PO, OU on Smogon
    Whimsicott          UU on PO, OU on Smogon
    Latias          BL on PO, OU on Smogon
    Bronzong          UU on PO, OU on Smogon
    Darmanitan          UU on PO, OU on Smogon
    Virizion          UU on PO, OU on Smogon
    Venasaur          UU on PO, OU on Smogon
    Tornadus          LU on PO, OU on Smogon
    I'll check if these need updated about once a month...

    I might also add in PO's LU list if I get bored.
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  2. #2
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    I think raising the OU cutoff is a good thing. Since OU doesn't really mean anything this simply makes a more relevant OU list. I could point out tons of teams last gen that were weak to Curse Umbreon or mixed Electivire but despite them being OU, they weren't really all that common.

    UU won't be destroyed either, as a large BL list can compensate for a smaller OU. Not that anyone cares about UU.

    Also whats wrong with you people, why isn't Terrakion OU. I'm not sure how some of these Pokemon made OU at all with them being literally dead weight against Shanderaa. Espeon? Starmie? Scizor?

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    Zuruzukin OU while Latios and Terakion are UU? Lolwot.

    Still, this shows how much weather dominates the metagame, hardly surprising...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    I think raising the OU cutoff is a good thing. Since OU doesn't really mean anything this simply makes a more relevant OU list. I could point out tons of teams last gen that were weak to Curse Umbreon or mixed Electivire but despite them being OU, they weren't really all that common.

    UU won't be destroyed either, as a large BL list can compensate for a smaller OU. Not that anyone cares about UU.

    Also whats wrong with you people, why isn't Terrakion OU. I'm not sure how some of these Pokemon made OU at all with them being literally dead weight against Shanderaa. Espeon? Starmie? Scizor?

    Magic Mirror Espeon is a good lead with Dual Screens, so I can see how it's OU, but not the rest.

  5. #5

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    For convenience, I'm making a list of:
    Unova Pokemon that are in OU;
    Pokemon that stayed in OU (based on the list);
    Pokemon that moved out of OU;
    Pokemon that moved into OU.

        Spoiler:- Unova Pokemon:


        Spoiler:- Pokemon that stayed:


        Spoiler:- Pokemon that left:


        Spoiler:- New Pokemon:
    YOU JUST LOST THE GAME!
    Click HERE to be rickrolled... c'mon, you know you want to.
        Spoiler:- I HAVE DEFIED ALL MATHS AND LOGIC!:


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    This is just BS. Honestly. In 4th gen, we had like 51 OUs. And now with like 100 more pokes, we only have 38? I'm am just ridiculed at how latios and terakion fail to make it. There shouldn't even be a cut-off yet for OU. Seeing as how there are so many noobs on PO anyway, I really doubt if this is a great representation of usage and tier. While smogon have been banning as little as possible, PO seems to have just kept making really reash decisions of tiers.
    Start playing ubers, not OU. Serebii needs more ubers players!

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    Quote Originally Posted by calze6 View Post
    This is just BS. Honestly. In 4th gen, we had like 51 OUs. And now with like 100 more pokes, we only have 38?
    OU doesn't really mean anything besides what are "standard" Pokemon. Would you say Umbreon or Togekiss are standards ona team, and you were in trouble if you were weak to either? No, because despite them being OU they weren't used much at all. By 4th gen's standards we have 55 OUs, but realistically you won't commonly see most of them, until you get to around 5% (one in 20 teams). Higher OU cutoff makes perfect sense.

    I'm am just ridiculed at how latios and terakion fail to make it.
    Latios is Shandera bait, Tyranitar weak and struggles to get around Nattorei. It also competes with Sazandora for a team slot, as the Hydra doesn't care about Shandera, is Pursuit resistant and laughs at Nattorei.

    I'm as stumped as you about Terakion considering it can 1-2HKO pretty much everything. But lowering the OU cutoff to make him OU is retarded, its not going to boost his usage at all.

    There shouldn't even be a cut-off yet for OU.
    The game has been going on for months and the tiers are relatively stable. Why wouldn't we move on to tiering UU?

    Seeing as how there are so many noobs on PO anyway, I really doubt if this is a great representation of usage and tier.
    Ok how about you reach a high rating on the ladder before you insult approximately 80% of 5th gen players (roughly 20% play the Smogon server).

    While smogon have been banning as little as possible, PO seems to have just kept making really reash decisions of tiers.
    lmao, that is one of the most incorrect statements I have ever seen. Pokemon Online has been extremely limited in its bans while Smogon has been spouting every conceivable threat as a possible Uber. The only reason PO has banned anything is because Smogon doesn't actually do anything besides sit around *****ing and accomplishing nothing.

    Guess what, the PO bans are almost exclusively agreed by Smogon to be Uber (IIRC Deoxys A / Darkrai / Manaphy / Shaymin S). But instead of wasting literally FOUR GODDAMN MONTHS before starting a limited suspect vote of three abilities (no Pokemon yet) Pokemon Online quickly did the most logical thing and banned the Pokemon who were obviously broken.

    It doesn't take a genius to tell what's broken or not. Maybe if Smogon wasn't wasting its time with useless issues like lol, infinite turns or banning critical hits they might get crap done. But no, Smogon is Smogon.

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    So now are we gonna start of UU testing with terakion, blissey, chansey, jirachi, vaporeon metagross and latios in the freaking UU metagame? The cutoff is just far too low. The UU metagame was balanced in the 4th generation. This is hyperpowered.
    Start playing ubers, not OU. Serebii needs more ubers players!

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    If you ignore the name change, NU will be pretty much the same thing UU was last gen. UU may even be split into two tiers, or BL may be made intentionally large and more playable than last gen.

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    I entirely agree with BH (except for Latios, as I feel there is a major difference between it and Sazandora). There's a couple Pokes, for example, Terakion, that I feel SHOULD be in OU, but when the OU tier is based on what is standard and what isn't, It really doesn't trouble me all too much. Personally, I want to wait for the UU tiering to be done with before I make any assumptions/decisions on any of the metagames. After that is finished, consequently, the BL 'tier' will be formed, and based off of the sheer number of Mon's not it OU, it would seem that BL may actually be playable this gen.
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    Well, Latios has Speed and Dragon Dance, while the dark dragon has a "better" typing and move pool for choice specs. Throw in Fire Blast and Flamethrower, which are better than Hidden Power [Fire], I would probably going to use Sazandora for specs set if my team had enough speed and the Lati twins for Calm Minding / Support sets. While speed is nice, the pursuit weakness isn't something I am too fond of. Right now, players looking for a specs dragon are deciding on whether or not the speed is worth being Shandera or Pursuit weak or if the loss of speed is worth having a better selection of moves to hit Nattorei, as well as not being pursuit and shandera bait. If Sazandora had the same speed as Latias or Latios, then he would be completely superior to both of them when it comes to choice specs, but if Lati@s get banned again this gen, then I see him becoming the dominant specs user, and if things get really ridiculous, him getting banned along with every other decent dragon type.

    Edit: While we're on the topic of Smogon...

    Darkrai: 49 Bans, 1 Do Not Ban, and 1 Abstain (98%)
    Deoxys-A: 46 Bans, 2 Do Not Bans, and 3 Abstains (95.8%)
    Deoxys-N: 28 Bans, 11 Do Not Bans, and 12 Abstains (71.8%)
    Doryuuzu: 16 Bans, 27 Do Not Bans, and 8 Abstains (37.2%)
    Latios: 7 Bans, 38 Do Not Bans, and 6 Abstains (15.5%)
    Manaphy: 26 Bans, 17 Do Not Bans, and 8 Abstains (60.5%)
    Shaymin-S: 51 Bans, 0 Do Not Bans, and 0 Abstains (100%!!!)

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    Well my point was that Latios's primary role as a hyper-powerful Choice Specs Draco Meteor who also floats is rivaled by Sazandora, Salamence and (Ice / Dragon thing). But unlike those three Latios is weak to Pursuit and Shandera (well I guess Salamence dies to HP Ice).

    I don't think they'll be banned though (from OU). Nattorei is a hard stop to much of their movepool and Shandera / Tyranitar make it dead after a Draco Meteor.

    Hey, isn't the OU cutoff something like 5% now? I think that means Latios is OU now. Its on 5.6% of Dream World teams and nearly 7% of Wifi.

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    Good, we've finally gotten rid of Darkrai and Skymin. PHEW!
    Lol.

  14. #14

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    as of right now its very unbalanced. Its gunna take a while to make a good meta game like 4th gen was. With added abilitys that make pokemon from NU to OU you cant tell that its gunna be hard to restore the tier peace that was in eariler generations.

    Personally i think no pokemon that was OU should leave the OU tier yet. They only thing that should have been done is adding the better / good new pokemon into the tier, then seeing what is left behind. its just that the OU pokemon that are in UU now are still way to good to be down there so it just makes everything Wacky. IMO

    The OU tier does carry a lot of threats that are out there now, but not all of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thoril View Post
    as of right now its very unbalanced. Its gunna take a while to make a good meta game like 4th gen was. With added abilitys that make pokemon from NU to OU you cant tell that its gunna be hard to restore the tier peace that was in eariler generations.

    Personally i think no pokemon that was OU should leave the OU tier yet. They only thing that should have been done is adding the better / good new pokemon into the tier, then seeing what is left behind. its just that the OU pokemon that are in UU now are still way to good to be down there so it just makes everything Wacky. IMO

    The OU tier does carry a lot of threats that are out there now, but not all of them
    It's not about what should be OU or otherwise. It's simply to do with what is being used enough to warrant being described as 'OverUsed'. Blissey's an awesome special wall, but if it's not being used on enough teams, then it's UU.
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  16. #16

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    Man, what happened to the PO Dream World? Everything seemed stable for a while there, and now everything just jumped. Blaziken moved up from #8 to #2 (not complaining), Shanderaa went from 24% usage to 15% (again, not complaining), and a whole bunch of other stuff jumped around. Dang, and I thought we would see a stable metagame real soon. Oh well, maybe Blaziken will be #1 for a little while...

  17. #17

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    ^The statistics have changed since you last looked apparently. They reset at the beginning of every month so they aren't quite as accurate until later which might explain that. One thing I dislike with them basing the list off the DW OU is that they don't have the team viewing mechanic on the ladder for some reason, and while that might not be very significant, it probably could impact the metagame more than people realize. If people see Shandera coming it usually isn't as hard to predict when it will come in. The same holds true for many other things as well.
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  18. #18

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    ^Aha, I was accidentally looking at a very outdated version of the list. Forget what I said earlier. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Now that's more like it. I'm liking how OU is looking at the moment, although I do agree that if we had the team viewer on the ladder then Shanderaa would most likely slide a little. One thing I don't like is how UU is done. It seems that everything below the cut-off is just tossed into UU until the next update. There's not too much time to balance out a good tier right now.

    By the way, I'm wondering if maybe the OU cut-off is something else? I had gone through the list and thought it might be 4%, but I did see a couple of oddities in UU, such as an Ononokusu, a Zoroark, and 2 Vaporeon (?), so I'm not entirely sure what to think right now. I guess the 5% cut-off makes sense for most everything, but Vaporeon...?

  19. #19

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    Actually they bumped the cutoff up to 5%, not 4%. Looks right now like Onono and Zoroark are both below that, plus Sazandora looks dangerously close to falling now that more people realize Latios is probably not going anywhere. I dislike what this does to UU as well since it makes the metagame dominated by pokes which are still fairly common in OU, and while BH says this makes a more relevant OU list, it also screws up the whole point of UU which is to use weaker pokes which are less (if at all) viable in OU. I don't know about you guys but I think I see enough Zoroark, Keruidio, Ononokusu, Bliss, Voltolos, etc, to go ahead and put them in OU just so we don't have to deal with testing them in UU. All that accomplishes is wasting time testing stuff for BL, or if something isn't broken then we have to deal with it being good and somewhat common in both UU and OU which kinda defeats the purpose of UU as stated earlier.
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    So wait, is Zuru OU or not? In post 1 it said he was but it didn't in post 5. I'm also surprised that Kojondo isn't OU, as people seem to have talked about it a lot. The raised cutoff is going to wreck UU too, not just OU. I think pokémon online should have at least waited a few more months...

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    I think BL should be a tier. When people think of UU they want to play with altaria and nidoking type pokmeon not blissey snorlax and latias.
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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbx View Post
    I think BL should be a tier. When people think of UU they want to play with altaria and nidoking type pokmeon not blissey snorlax and latias.
    Yeah, I've heard a lot of people talking about making some sort of new tier to help organize things. After all, the way UU is now, old UU favorites like Sceptile and Ambipom can't shine without dropping to NU (which we don't have yet, I know, but we will...eventually). When that happens, old NU veterans won't be able to shine anywhere. However, I'm not so sure about making BL a playable tier. A friend of mine came up with an idea of creating something like "Lower OU" and "Upper OU", but I guess making BL a tier would keep us from having to invent new terms.

    Long story short, and I said this before, I really hate what's happened to UU...

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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    Actually they bumped the cutoff up to 5%, not 4%. Looks right now like Onono and Zoroark are both below that, plus Sazandora looks dangerously close to falling...
    If even freaking Ononokusu is in UU, then there is officially no such thing as UU anymore. RIP Underused.

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  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASB View Post
    If even freaking Ononokusu is in UU, then there is officially no such thing as UU anymore. RIP Underused.
    If it really is broken then it would be placed in BL. Either way, I just hope that when Smogon finally decides to establish tiers that they use the same cutoff as last gen to prevent UU from sucking/taking too long to test stuff. For now these are the only tiers we have to go by though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbx View Post
    I think BL should be a tier. When people think of UU they want to play with altaria and nidoking type pokmeon not blissey snorlax and latias.
    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Yeah, I've heard a lot of people talking about making some sort of new tier to help organize things. After all, the way UU is now, old UU favorites like Sceptile and Ambipom can't shine without dropping to NU (which we don't have yet, I know, but we will...eventually). When that happens, old NU veterans won't be able to shine anywhere. However, I'm not so sure about making BL a playable tier. A friend of mine came up with an idea of creating something like "Lower OU" and "Upper OU", but I guess making BL a tier would keep us from having to invent new terms.

    Long story short, and I said this before, I really hate what's happened to UU...

    What are you two saying? There's no need for new tiers, wether it's a division of OU or making BL a playable tier. That's simply not how it works. BL is a banned list for UU, so that UU can be a playable tier; just as Ubers is to OU. And just as Ubers, BL may become playable if and only if there's enough pokemon in the tier. Remember that a BL is still an OU, except that, you know, isn't used as much.

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