Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 75

Thread: Community POTW #1

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Raito alt; white guy.
    Posts
    4,202

    Default Community POTW #1



    The first Pokémon of the new POTW project is the 3rd generation pseudo-legendary Dragon Salamence.

    Great Speed, amazing offences, acceptable bulk especially with Intimidate, and a movepool that tops it all off add up to the fact that Salamence is still a huge threat two generations on.

    Any sets you can think of, but please try and keep them competitive. Warnings and infractions will be given out to obvious rulebreakers.

    Name @ Item
    Trait: Ability
    EVs: HP / Atk / Def / SAtk / SDef / Spd
    Nature (+Stat, -Stat)
    - Move 1
    - Move 2
    - Move 3
    - Move 4

    Ideally you'd want an explanation as to why the set is effective, but it isn't required.

    Sadly, not every set will make it into the POTW, but I'll include as many as I can, as long as they are worth including.

    Thanks for reading and I hope you get involved!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bournemouth, England
    Posts
    15,904

    Default

    Just in case you forget, feel free to post Double, Triple and Rotation battle strategies and recommended partners as we hope for the article to assist in those battles as well as Single bttles!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    2

    Default

    Is this for all tiers or OU

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
    Posts
    116

    Default

    Salamence hasn't really changed much in the Generation shift, but it's definitely worth mentioning Moxie, its new ability. It's not compatible with Outrage, but gaining an Attack boost after every kill is just fantastic. It has to be careful switching in though, due to the loss of Intimidate.

    As for potential partners, it's worth mentioning Magnezone, considering that between the two of them, they resist every type in the game, and Magnezone can take out Steel-types to help Salamence sweep more easily (even though it can easily dispose of Steels itself, it's always nice to know you can start using Outrage at any given moment).

    Other than that, there's not much to mention. The metagame has changed around Salamence, and it hasn't got any new toys itself, but the changes in the metagame haven't really stopped him from performing as well as he always did. He just takes more skill to use now, due to the weather-infested metagame (Salamence loses to almost all weather, but it could probably take on a Sun team with ease).

  5. #5

    Default

    Assuming that this is for gen 5?

    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 24 Atk / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive (+Spe, -SpD)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    "New Mixmence" was one of the most fearsome (if not the most fearsome) gen 4 Salamence set, and it returns in the 5th generation with basically nothing but improvements. The set maxes speed, netting the major advantage Salamence has over Sazando, as well as tying with base 100s. 24 Attack EVs allows Mence to OHKO 252HP/Defense Blissey after rocks, while the other EVs are placed into Special Attack to maximize the power of Draco Meteor, the main attack Mence is likely to be using.

    I can write up a longer description if necessary, and I also think that it would be worth it to add that in generation five, salamence is not uber.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    California
    Posts
    119

    Default

    The problem with having Salamence as the first 5th gen POTW is that it gets practically nothing new. Granted it's still a beast but the only new thing it gets is Moxie (and Intimidate is still generally better). However I feel that this set could be utilized effectively.

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf / Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    - Outrage
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch / Dragon Tail

    The basic idea with this set is to KO something as quickly as possible and therefore receive the Moxie boost as quick as possible. The main problem with this set is the fact you are choiced, so a Life Orb might be better (but then you get OHKOed by Terrakion's Stone Edge). 100 Speed isn't amazing anymore, so a Choice Scarf is probably the best option. Stone Edge, Crunch, and Earthquake are in there for coverage, while Dragon Tail can be used on someone like Nattorei or another wall (Life Orb is better if you're running Dragon Tail). Outrage is the main attraction here. After several Moxie boosts, Outrage OHKOs almost anything (you may also consider using a Lum Berry). Overall this set will probably not be as effective, due to Salamence's average Speed of 100 which makes this set destroyed by Terrakion if you are using a Life Orb and the fact that you are stuck to one move if you're using a Choice Scarf. Also, Intimidate is generally better because it would shut down Pokemon like Terrakion allowing you to KO them before they KO you.

    Just a note about Salamence being Uber. Going by the two most popular Pokemon Online servers (Pokemon Online and Smogon), Salamence isn't Uber. However, it is still very early in the metagame. People are trying stuff that's new, hence why Latios was in UU for awhile (I think Mew still is in UU). IMHO, Salamence is not Uber material, but it's too early to tell.
    Last edited by Superior Master Lucario; 2nd January 2011 at 4:59 PM.
    [IMG]http://i46.*******.com/2iqhn9g.jpg[/IMG]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Naboo
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Salamence @ choice scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe / 6 HP
    Jolly (+ Spe, - SpA)
    - Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
    - Fire Fang
    - Earthquake/Aqua Tail
    - Stone Edge

    This set maximizes speed with the scarf, using Salamence's ability to hit unexpected teams fast and hard. Once they've realised the danger they're in it's too late. While he's quick, he's outsped by threats such as Starmie and Jolteon. The attack and speed EV's are obviously placed, and the hp for a little bulk. I prefer Dragon Claw over Dragon Rush, reliability over power but that's a personal decision. This set is potentially more useful than DDmence with focus sash because no set up time is necessary, and in a metagame where sandstorm teams are so popular, a 'mence hanging on with a focus sash is a dead one. Issues could pop up though concerning the hippo, he could wall mence badly and end up roaring him out of his streak. To cover his weakspots I recommend a lightning rod such as electivire (my favourite), a rapid spinner (you could use Donphan and get your rod at the same time, hitting two birds with one stone or tentacruel who could deal with the hippo), or a drizzle toad to screw up those sandstormers, or a sunny fox. I think that in a hyper-offensive based metagame, speed is crucial in determining the victor and that this set is definitely unmatched in terms of speed and power.

  8. #8

    Default

    In response to the above posts, don't list Crunch and Stone Edge (or Dragon Tail on a scarf set, lol) as options please, because frankly, they're not viable in the least.

    In addition, the "spam strong outrages" works significantly less effectively on Salamence in practice than in theory, and is generally pulled off better by Choice Band Ononokuso, even though it lacks Salamence's Dream World ability, it has the power to OHKO stuff outright without the necessity of the boosts.

    Also, the entire concept of the set is pointless since Outrage + Moxie isn't compatible due to Outrage being a gen 4 Tutor move.

    edit: and to the directly above post, please please please rewrite the description...sashmence was rarely (never?) used later than early dp by good players, and you mention that a lot, when it sucks. You also mention Electivire, a terrible Pokemon in general, even with the new boost in the form of Wild Volt (since frankly base 123 Atk isn't anything all that special this gen). tl;dr, the description is just, well, terrible.
    Last edited by windsong; 2nd January 2011 at 5:17 PM.

  9. #9

    Default

    I assume this is for the tier that the pokemon of the week is usually competing in. For Salamence this is OU indeed, since it's waay too strong for UU and almost completely outclassed by Rayquaza in Ubers because Ray has harder hitting attack stats, slightly better bulk not counting Intimidate, and ExtremeSpeed.


    Anyways, I think that Salamence, hasn't changed all that much in the generation shift, although it did get Dragon Tail and Hone Claws.

    First a Hone Claws set I made up:

    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Nature Adamant (+Attack, -Special attack)
    - Hone Claws
    - Dragon Rush
    - Stone Edge / Dragon Tail
    - Earthquake

    Hone Claws boosts Salamences attack up and gives it an accuracy boost. After a single boost, Dragon Rush and Stone Edge are both 100% accurate. Stone Edge + Earthquake is good combo and Dragon Rush is powerful STAB, more powerful than Dragon Claw. Outrage can't be on this set since it clashes with Dragon Rush as Outrage comes from platinum whilst Dragon Rush is a 5th gen egg move. I think Fire Blast is a good move to put in this set as well instead of EQ or Stone Edge to deal with Skarmory, and it also gets an accuracy boost from Hone Claws.


    Dragon dance is old stuff, but it still works:

    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Nature Adamant (+Attack, -Special attack)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge / Dragon Tail

    Simple Dragon dancer that also worked in 3rd gen and 4th gen. Dragon tail is a fun move that is basically whirlwind that does damage, so it can pick up additional entry hazard damage. It's less good as a primary STAB move since its base power is rather low and it always goes last, but it's great fun when the foe switches. When a foe switches in a counter, Dragon Tail hits their counter, damages it a bit, and then immediately sends away the counter. Basically, if your foe switches and you use it on the switch. It results in the foes counter being damaged and the foe still not having their Salamence counter in play. With entry hazard support it's even more fun.

    Next up, Choice Band:

    Salamence @ Choice Band
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Nature Adamant (+Attack, -Special attack)
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Stone Edge / Dragon Tail

    Still a good choice I recon. Outrage is a fun bulldozering move that hits hard. Dragon Claw is a reliable move that allows you to switch out whenever you want, so you don't get destroyed when Aggron for example switches in on Outrage and uses Stone Edge.

    Choice Specs:

    Salamence @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Nature Modest (+Special Attack, -Attack)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Hydro Pump

    Basically Specs-Mence from the 4th gen. On the special side Salamence hasn't changed at all in the gen shift.

    Choice Scarf, mixed set:

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
    Nature Lonely (+Attack, -Defence)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Claw
    - Flamethrower
    - Earthquake

    Fast and hitting from both sides of the spectrum. Nothing can really safely switch into this thing. Perhaps Gyarados can, but it still gets a hard hit from Draco Meteor.


    I haven't done any defensive sets since I think that Salamence isn't that good as a wall. There are better walls out there. Salamence should be hitting hard, versatile, and leave every pokémon afraid for a massive hit.

    Overall, Salamence is the same as before, attacking from both special and physical sides, hitting hard, having a wide move pool on both sides of the spectrum and having Intimidate to ease switching in. It gained Hone Claws so it can use Dragon Rush which hits harder than Dragon Claw, and it gained Dragon Tail to frustrate counters switching in, but overall it's still the same. It's still weak to Ice Beam and Stealth Rock so defensively it's also the same.

    I guess it gained a bit of dragon competition but overall its competitors lack the wide movepool to effectively use both special and physical movesets, and I think that Dragonite is still its largest competitor as a versatile dragon in OU, and I'm pretty sure Salamence will continue to be a massive beast and a top contender in the environment. Outclassed by Rayquaza in Ubers but perhaps slightly too strong for OU.

    I think that a lot of pokémon stayed pretty much the same in the generation shift. There haven't been that massive changes to the environment as before. When going to the 2nd gen, special stats were split, when going to the 3rd, abilities were added, and in the 4th, whether a move was special or physical was no longer decided by type, but in the 5th there hasn't really been such a massive change affecting almost everything.
    Master balls are the cheapest thing ever invented. It's more fun catching everything with balls that can fail. 'caught Latios in the wild without master ball ftw'

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Naboo
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Salamence @ choice scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk/ 252 Spe / 6 HP
    Jolly (+ Spe, - SpA)
    - Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
    - Fire Fang
    - Earthquake/Aqua Tail
    - Stone Edge

    This set maximizes speed with the scarf, using Salamence's ability to hit unexpected teams fast and hard. Once they've realised the danger they're in it's too late. While he's quick, he's outsped by threats such as Starmie and Jolteon. The attack and speed EV's are obviously placed, and the hp for a little bulk. I prefer Dragon Claw over Dragon Rush, reliability over power but that's a personal decision. This set is potentially more useful than DDmence with focus sash because no set up time is necessary, and in a metagame where sandstorm teams are so popular, a 'mence hanging on with a focus sash is a dead one. Issues could pop up though concerning the hippo, he could wall mence badly and end up roaring him out of his streak. To cover his weakspots I recommend a lightning rod such as electivire (my favourite), a rapid spinner (you could use Donphan and get your rod at the same time, hitting two birds with one stone or tentacruel who could deal with the hippo), or a drizzle toad to screw up those sandstormers, or a sunny fox. I think that in a hyper-offensive based metagame, speed is crucial in determining the victor and that this set is definitely unmatched in terms of speed and power.



  11. #11

    Default

    Knuckles, you know that copy pasting the same set that I pointed out doesn't work well doesn't exactly make it better. =/

    And also, I'd just like to mention that Hone Claw sets are outclassed by Dragon Dance (though have a bit of novelty value), CB Sets are basically just inferior to Ononokuso (other than the slightly higher base speed and Intimidate), and specs sets just suck in general as anything but lures, being outclassed by Latias, Latios, and Sazando.

    Also, DD sets always want to run Outrage unless they're running a ton of bulk.

    Finally, it's worth a mention that the best available mence sets in the metagame now are DD, Mix, and Bulky, all of which take advantage of common pokes very well.
    Last edited by windsong; 2nd January 2011 at 5:36 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Raito alt; white guy.
    Posts
    4,202

    Default

    throwing something different out there.

    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 216 SDef / 36 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Dragon Tail
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    with sleep talk, the negative priority of dragon tail isn't an issue, so you can boost up with dragon dance, rest and start phazing with huge speed and attack.

    intimidate covers the initial physical defence, hence why everything is pumped into special defence. beats jolly tyranitar with no boosts, which is useful I guess.

    ALSO we won't be starting 5th gen pokemon until the weekend just before the english release. sorry if this disappoints anyone.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    everywhere as i am god
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Switchmance@quick claw
    Moxie
    Ev:atk 252, spd 252, def 6
    Jolly
    Dragon tail
    Hone claw
    Earthquake/Brick Break
    Dragon rush/Outrage

    the point is to hit as many times as possible and as fast as possible with dragon tail to keep the opponent from getting an attack in
    suggested to raise atk and acc with hone claws to get the 90 acc on dragon tail up
    most likely you will knock out at least one opponent with this strategy thus raising atk on dragon rush/outrage when tail runs out
    use rush if you don't want confusion outrage if u want acc(but acc should already be up due to hone claw)
    for the other slot either Earthquake for power or Brick Break for ice/rock types

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Naboo
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Yeah it was an accident :P And what should stone edge be replaced with then?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Farming infractions for noobs.
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    It should be mentioned that Nattorei is a somewhat nifty switch in on Outrage, with Iron Barbs/Steel Barbs and Life Orb recoil stripping away a good 16% of it's health or so. Nattorei might not be doing much after Intimidate, but he resists Outrage well enough and can wear Mence down with a quick Toxic or crippling with Thunder Wave, though it has to watch for mixed sets as Fire Blast will melt him.

    Mence's main rivals are undoubtfully the new dragons on the block, Ononokusu and Sazandora. While both are slower than Mence by a couple of points, they make up for this by having incredible strength. In particular, Ononokusu's poor base 60 special attack is neutralised by his phenomenal 147 attack and natural access to Dragon Dance and Outrage. Ono can also run Taunt to prevent Salamence from getting further dances set up and while lacking Stone Edge, can run Rock Slide if the user is worried about Outrage trapping. Sazandora, on the other hand, can paralyse Salamence, or on the Moxie sets OHKO with Ice Fang, and despite the lower speed has that huge base 125 special attack with which to ruin the dragon with Draco Meteor.

    Erufuun can also end Mence's sweeping potential by coming in on Dragon Dance and using Mischievous Heart Stun Spore and Taunt to prevent Salamence from utilising his base 100 speed. Priority Charm can also cut Salamence's offensive power greatly, though this is less likely to occur.

    It is also worth mentioning that with Moxie, Salamence is incapable of utilising Outrage with Dragon Dance, meaning his next best STAB option would be the terribly inaccurate Dragon Rush or the more accurate Dragon Claw, whose effective base power of 120 is significantly les than the 180 of Outrage. While somewhat gimmicky, Salamence can make use of Substitute, Roost and Dragon Tail to switch around the foe and rack up residual damage. However, this would mean he has to run Intimidate as Moxie is illegal with Roost due to it being a 4th gen TM.

    Salamence is still very dangerous, however, but can be handled. In particular, a slew of new pokemon who are faster may be a danger to Salamence. While Tyranitar has always been a nuisance with Sand Stream, Salamence now has to worry about Sand Throw Doryuuzu, who will KO with Rock Slide, as well as the likelihood of Balloon users, meaning Salamence is stuck with either using Fire Blast or locking himself into Outrage. Of particular concern are the new legendary pokemon.

    The Musketeer quartet all run base 108 Speed, and the New MixMence set or any Salamence without Dragon Dance will be OHKOed easily by Terrakion's STAB Stone Edge running off base 129 attack, even through Intimidate. Voltolos will do serious damage with STAB Thunderbolt, and can scout Salamence with Volt Change or priority Substitute. Kerudio can use his respectable bulk and terrifying special attack to destroy the dragon as well with HP Ice, while Landlos with the help of his base 101 Speed can OHKO with Stone Edge similarly. Ulgamoth is much the same story, and with Butterfly Dance stands an impressive chance of winning the speed tie, though care must be taken as Salamence's huge physical strength can make mincemeat of the moth.


    I reject your Nyancats and replace it with my own.
    FB

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    everywhere as i am god
    Posts
    87

    Default

    @ sceptile blade
    dragon rush is also a egg move in gen 4

  17. #17

    Default

    While almost every offensive Salamence set has been covered, I think some defensive sets are viable as well.

    Wish Salamence is viable since it can support the team, and it is different from Wish Blissey due to the defensive typing, and the suprise factor. I also think a bulky dragon dancer should get a mention to really take advantage of Intimidate.


  18. #18

    Default

    LizardMan, due to Wish's new mechanics, Wishmence is rather ineffective this gen in comparison to its effectiveness last generaton.

    However, I am in agreement on defensive sets being mentioned (and I personally think that the only offensive sets deserving of a mention are Dragon Dance, CB, and New/Classic Mixed).

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Farming infractions for noobs.
    Posts
    2,012

    Default

    Okay, let's see here...

    ~SpecsMence, for the first time in his life, has been ousted from his throne by Sazandora who not only has a much wider special movepool but has higher special attack, at the cost of a couple of points of speed. That speed advantage mence has is his only boost, as well as a stronger water move in Hydro Pump. Moxie on a SpecsMence set is both useless and stupid, as it means Mence can't get the most of his ability.


    I reject your Nyancats and replace it with my own.
    FB

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default

    as rose storm said, salamence really hasnt changed, and the few changes arent superior to the other options. salamence is king with intimidate and outrage, and pretty much all gen 4 sets work fine. i prefer garchomp because of its resistance to stealth rock, but thats just me. a really solid pokemon, but not too many changes.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Defense mence

    Salamence @ leftovers
    Impish
    126 defense 126 hp 126 attack 126 speed
    1. Defense curl
    2. Substitute
    3. Toxic
    4. Dragon tail

    Focuses on salamence shallow defensive movepool substitute on physical pokemon or things that mence intimidates and sub on the switch toxic and dragon tail or after all special attackers with ice type moves are gone you can use defense curl and toxic then dragon tail would guess that this set works great with entry hazards

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fun Dip
    Posts
    749

    Default

    Mence has 394 max HP so I don't see what's wrong with passing 197 HP around to teammates.

    Classic DDMence still does the job in 5th gen, so why not use it?

    Salamence@Life Orb
    Nature: Naive
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Att/ 252 Spe/ 6 Sp Att
    Moves:
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast

    This beast still is one of the biggest threats in 5th gen, outspeeding even ScarfGenosect after a Dragon Dance because of that one point difference in speed. Whatever Outrage doesn't cover EQ and Fire Blast do, meaning the famous Nattorei + Burungeru combo is ripped to shreds with one prediction. This Salamence is Ditto bait, though, so a bulky steel teammate is almost a must. For that reason, I suggest Physically Defensive Skarmory as a teammate to take those Outrages and even help against threats like Ononokuzo or whatever it is.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    108

    Default

    Thank you doc thank you...

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    TARDIS
    Posts
    110

    Default

    Support/Wall
    Salamence@Leftovers
    Impish
    Intimidate
    252 HP/56 Atk/200 Sp. Def
    -Toxic
    -Roost
    -Dragon Claw
    -Tailwind/Substitute
    Toxic is to wear down bulky foes. Roost gives you some good instant healing. Dragon claw gives you a decent attack and prevents you from being complete taunt bait. Tailwind is for double and triple battles for pokemon who need some extra speed, and Substitute gives you a defensive buffer.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Salamence@Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs:200Atk, 252SAtk, 56Spd
    Nature: Hasty
    Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Roost
    Fire Blast

    This is a mixed sweeper, slightly gimmicky with Roost and Moxie paired with LO to become a huge threat

    Salamence@Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252HP, 128Def, 128SDef
    Nature: Careful
    Toxic
    Dragon Tail
    Roost
    Tailwind/Protect

    Wall/ supporter to drive off opposing walls with Dragon Tail or Toxic, and Roost to buy more time.
    Last edited by Trick Room Octillery; 2nd January 2011 at 8:44 PM.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •