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Thread: Community POTW #1

  1. #26
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    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Hone Claws
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail/Outrage

    This set emphasizes Salamence's attack stat. Life Orb boosts it's power. Moxie boosts that attack stat even higher after a KO, great for when it's trying to sweep a team. Invest EVs into it's Speed so that it can outspeed more things, and Attack to boost it even higher. Hone Claws not only boosts it's now monstrous Attack stat to the roof AND raises it's Accuracy. EdgeQuake can hit almost everything with at least normal damage. Dragon Tail is for when it runs into a very defensive Ice-type like Lapras. Outrage is if you want to sweep the foe's team quickly.


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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trick Room Octillery View Post
    Salamence@Life Orb
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs:200Atk, 252SAtk, 56Spd
    Nature: Hasty
    Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Roost
    Fire Blast

    This is a mixed sweeper, slightly gimmicky with Roost and Moxie paired with LO to become a huge threat
    56 speed ev's don't really help with anything, lol. max speed tran can easily kill this with hp ice, it doesn't even need +nature. this is like any other set except the ev's and move set are messed up, no offense.

  3. #28

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    248HP/8Atk/252Spe may be viable as a Bulky Dragon Dancer with Jolly, but you kinda want more defense and attack.

    There has to be a better EV spread out there, but I am no expert with gen 5. Someone else has to refine the EV spread, otherwise I will just do my research.

    Also, I can understand why Wish Mence got a bit worse this generation because it passes Wishes equal to half your HP.

    However, while Jirachi passes 202HP wishes, Mence passes 197HP wishes. Not a big difference at all, and Salamence is very different from every other Wish Passer so it isn't outclassed.

    Heck, 197HP is enough to heal more than 50% to most things anyway. Mence has Intimidate, a unique typing to go with different resistences, the suprise factor, the raw attacking stats, the speed, and movepool. It is an excellent partner to things like Metagross, which appreciate Wish support. The only difference is, Salamence has perfect synergy with Metagross, but not Jirachi/Blissey/Vaporeon do not. It is merely an example, but there is a phletora I bet.

    It is very different from Jirachi, Blissey, Chansey, and Vaporeon.


  4. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by dark fire 6 View Post
    @ sceptile blade
    dragon rush is also a egg move in gen 4
    Oh yeah you're right, it also exists in 4th gen. My mistake.
    Master balls are the cheapest thing ever invented. It's more fun catching everything with balls that can fail. 'caught Latios in the wild without master ball ftw'

  5. #30
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    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Naive
    Intimidate
    252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 Special Attack

    Dragon Dance
    Outrage
    Fire Blast
    Earthquake

    Old standard, which still works now. Try to remove the sand early on as this improves Salamence's lifespan and keeps Doryuuzu from switching in and destroying you. After a Dragon Dance Outrage will OHKO almost anything that doesn't resist it while Earthquake and Fire Blast take out those that do.



    Salamence @ Choice Specs
    Timid / Modest
    Intimidate
    252 Speed / 252 Special Attack / 4 Defense

    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast
    Hydro Pump
    Dragon Pulse

    Specsmence is a viable 5th gen set as it easily outlasts Roobushion (takes 18% tops from a Payback) and can easily switch in on 4 of the top 5 Pokemon. Draco Meteor can 2HKO the most Specially Defensive Burungeru possible as long as Stealth Rocks are on the field while Fire Blast roasts Nattorei in one shot. Hydro Pump takes out Heatran and can bring down Specially Defensive rock types like Tyranitar or Gigaiasu. Modest has more power but Timid can outrun Ononokusu, Doryuuzu without sand and at worst tie with Zapdos.



    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Naive
    Intimidate
    252 Speed / 252 Special Attack / 4 Attack

    Draco Meteor
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast
    Roost / Outrage

    Mixmence is effective in this gen due to the high number of fighting moves it can switch in on and a metagame with few Blisseys to stop your Draco Meteors. The first three moves give perfect coverage while Roost may help you survive long games and tolerate sand better. If you are concerned about Blissey or Chansey Outrage is an option to 2HKO Blissey, and sometimes Chansey.



    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Relaxed
    Intimidate
    252 HP / 252 Defense / 4 Special Defense

    Dragon Tail
    Roost
    Flamethrower
    Wish / Roar / Level Ground

    Defensive Salamence is an underrated tool for stall teams. It takes hits overall better than Gyarados and gets instant recovery in Roost. Dragon Tail hits relatively hard backed by 135 base attack and STAB, 2HKOing most frail sweepers despite it being only 60 base power. Flamethrower 2HKOs most steels and prevents Nattorei from setting up on you. The final slot has a lot of options. Wish can be used to pass 197 HP to its teammates which is decent on something like Tentacruel or Nattorei. Roar can be used to phaze sub users like Jaroda and Level Ground can slow down problems like Terakion or Ononokusu.



    Salamence @ Choice Scarf
    Naive
    Intimidate
    252 Speed / 252 Special Attack / 4 Attack

    Outrage
    Draco Meteor
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast

    Salamence is a decent Choice Scarfer, capable of checking threats like Urugamosu, SD Garchomp and Genosekuto. It sets itself apart from Scarf Garchomp (102 speed) and Landlos (101 speed) with intimidate and massive crushing power of STAB Draco Meteor. It is also more capable of taking on Blaziken of whom normally can not OHKO you without Stone Edge or Stealth Rocks / Life Orb and Swords Dance. Draco Meteor has a lot of power behind it, easily OHKOing Blaziken and Shandera while the other moves round off the coverage. Outrage can sweep a weakened team and has a good chance of 2HKOing a Blissey after Stealth Rocks. Salamence is capable of switching into Stealth Rocks 4 times without fainting with this EV spread.



    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Naive
    Moxie / Overconfidence (whatever its called)
    252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 Special Attack

    Claw Sharpen / Hone Claws
    Dragon Rush
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast

    A boosting sweeper to take advantage of Moxie / Overconfidence and Claw Sharpen / Hone Claws (because both the move and ability are crap on Salamence). After a Claw Sharpen Dragon Rush has 100% accuracy allowing you to occasionally flinch through counters like Hippowdon or Balloon Heatran. Overconfidence can allow you to cleanly sweep a stall team assuming you can pull off a boost or two. At +2 Chansey is OHKOed after Stealth Rocks.



    Salamence @ Yache Berry
    Naive
    Intimidate
    252 Attack / 164 Speed / 92 HP

    Dragon Dance
    Outrage / Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast

    "Double Dance" Salamence. Bulk and Yache Berry allow you to survive pretty much any attack from a faster Pokemon including Scarf Starmie Ice Beam and Doryuuzu Rock Slide. After two Dragon Dances you will outrun +2 Jolly Doryuuzu as well as pretty much else in the game.



    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Naive
    Intimidate
    252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 Special Attack

    Substitute
    Draco Meteor
    Outrage
    Fire Blast

    This Salamence will not survive long, but when played right can rack up multiple kills particularly against stall. Outrage will 2HKO Chansey and Draco Meteor + Outrage will take care of pretty much everything else thats not a steel type. Fire Blast rips into steels like Forretress or Skarmory.




    This is every usable Salamence set I can think of listed in order of viability.

  6. #31
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    Salamence @ Soft Sand
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 6 HP - 252 Atk - 252 Spd

    Moveset:
    - Dragon Claw
    - Hone Claws
    - Level Ground
    - Shadow Claw

    Dragon Claw + Hone Claws boost is amazing, for a powerful and accurate Dragon Claw attack that kills nearby everything.
    Level Ground helps taking out Steel and Rock types, gets 1.5 x with Soft Sand and lowers enemy's speed.
    Finally, Shadow Claw helps taking out Psychic and Ghost Type, and could get a boost from Hone Claws. Not that bad.



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  7. #32

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    Can we please establish that Hone Claw Salamence is a bad gimmick?

    Thank you.

  8. #33
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    @Haru Glory: Why use Level Ground when it learns Earthquake? There's not all that much that's gonna be outspeeding Salamence in the first place, and EQ has more power.

    @Epic Eevee: No, we can't.


    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Jolly
    Intimidate/Moxie
    252 Spd/252 Atk/4 HP
    *Hone Claws
    *Dragon Rush
    *Stone Edge/Earthquake/Fire Fang
    *Stone Edge/Earthquake/Fire Fang

    Salamence got a nice new toy in the shape of Hone Claws, allowing it to not only boost its Attack stat, but also Accuracy. And Accuracy matters. Dragon Rush benefits from the Attack and Accuracy boosts that Hone Claws provides. A scary thought, especially considering that it's a 150 base power move with STAB factored in. To compare, Giga Impact has the same base power. The only difference here is, Dragon Rush doesn't require a recharge turn, isn't resisted by Rock-types, and can hit Ghost-types. Like I said, scary. As for the last two slots, there's Earthquake, always a reliable option, although it doesn't need the accuracy boost from Hone Claws. And then there's Fire Fang. The move is a bit of a joke, when compared to these 100 base power monstrosities that make up half of this moveset, but it does benefit from both the Attack and Accuracy boosts you get from Hone Claws, but consider this much; Dragon+Fire offers absolutely perfect coverage, resisted by nothing, except Flash Fire Heatran. This is where Earthquake comes in, although you really can't count on it as much these days, as you can be sure that many Pokemon weak to ground will be holding the new Balloon item. This is where Stone Edge could be useful. It benefits from both stat boosts provided by Hone Claws, it hits Heatran for neutral effectiveness, and it even has a high critical hit ratio, which means that the ever-present possibility of a critical hit just got even more present.

    Either ability works with this set. Salamence can always benefit from more Attack boosts, which is exactly what it will get if it goes with Moxie. A free Attack boost for each KO it gets, in fact. Add that to what already gets boosted with Hone Claws, and Salamence is looking even scarier. And speaking of scary, there's also Intimidate. I'd personally go with this one, as a physical attacking foe with lower Attack is less likely to KO Salamence after it Hones Claws. After all, Salamence's defenses may not be bad, but they're not exactly world-class tank material, either. On that note, the item is Leftovers, so Salamence can slowly recover whatever damage it sustains while Honing Claws.


    Salamence @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
    Timid
    Intimidate
    252 Spd/252 Sp. Atk/4 HP
    *Hydro Pump
    *Dragon Pulse
    *Flamethrower/Heat Wave/Fire Blast
    *Draco Meteor/Air Cutter/Ominous Wind

    Salamence is known and feared for its lethal combination of Attack and Speed, but its Special Attack is also more than usable. Hydro Pump, in addition to being Salamence's only Water-type option, is just powerful in general. Dragon Pulse gets STAB, and combined with the Fire-type move of your choice, provides near-perfect coverage, missing only Heatran, and Hydro Pump destroys it anyway. Some prefer the less powerful, more accurate Flamethrower, others would prefer to risk the accuracy issue and go with the all-powerful Fire Blast (you're taking that risk in any case, using Hydro Pump). I myself prefer to go with Heat Wave. More powerful than Flamethrower, more accurate than Fire Blast. A nice, happy medium, I think. As for the last slot, most people like a Draco Meteor to go with their SpecsMence, and it's not a bad idea, either. Due to the Choice Specs, it'll be switching out more often than your average Pokemon, which cancels out the negativity of Draco Meteor's Sp.Atk drop. However, if you opt for Life Orb (less of a power boost, but more freedom in move choice), Draco Meteor might not have that much of appeal. What else is there? Why, Air Cutter, of course. Salamence gets STAB on this laughable move, but I guarantee you your opponent won't see it coming, and it does have a high critical hit ratio. Essentially 82.5 base power and a higher-than-normal chance of a critical hit. Not exactly the worst move ever, wouldn't you say? Another semi-viable option is Ominous Wind. It's not that powerful, but it does have that chance of boosting all of Salamence's stats, including Special Attack and Speed. If you're the gambling type (and if you're counting on Hydro Pump to hit every time, I'd say you are), it's a move worth considering.

    Intimidate is the only ability you'd want to use with this set, and the only ability you CAN use with this set in any case; Heat Wave, Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, they're all illegal with Moxie. Not that it matters, as how the hell is Salamence supposed to benefit from that Attack boost when it's running an all-special set anyway? The item here is up to you. SpecsMence is rather popular, and rightly so, given how effective it is. High Speed, high Special Attack, and with moves like these, it's a lethal combination. However, if you prefer more freedom in move choice, at the cost of some power, then Life Orb can also work.

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  9. #34
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    Dragon Tail is better on Lugia, Zekrom, and Dragonite than on Salamence, both have better defences than Mence and can do the job better. Lugia also has the new ability Miracle Skin and because of this ability it entirely outclasses Mence as a defensive pokemon. And I know this is obvious, but if your using a phazing move entry hazards are a must. Good users are Forry, Nattorei, Agiruudaa, and Deoxys-S.
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  10. #35

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    The problem with that Hone Claw set is that it's basically just a DD set that's stopped by anything faster than it -- and gen 5 released a huge number of Pokemon that are, essentially meaning that literally a turn after you set up you'll either be killed or turned into setup bait.

    edit: and mence really has no use for stone edge, btw
    Last edited by windsong; 3rd January 2011 at 12:02 AM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee
    Can we please establish that Hone Claw Salamence is a bad gimmick?

    Thank you.
    Yes please.

    Anyway... enough has been done on the sets IMO, so I'm moving on to potential partners.

    Heatran: He's a big one. Salamence resists all his weaknesses, and Heatran resists two of Mence's weaknesses. He draws in Fighting-type attacks for Salamence, and Mence draws in Ice- and Dragon-type attacks for him. Heatran also removes Steel-types for a potential Salamence sweep. Heatran also has access to SR to assist Salamence if you can't find another place for it.

    Garchomp: I'm sure several people just did double-takes when they read this, but hear me out first. While they're not quite as powerful as SD Yache Chomp and DD Ononokusu, SD Yache Chomp and DD Salamence work together to soften up and scout their counters and checks (which are extremely similar if not often identical) better than 'Kusu + Chomp. Salamence also has a slight speed advantage over 'Kusu which allows it to outspeed more Pokemon (like opposing Ononokusu), and it draws in Rock-type moves for Garchomp to switch into. Salamence also resists Roopushin's Mach Punch, which would stop a weakened Garchomp cold.

    I'm a little busy right now, but I'll get back to this sometime later with another post.
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  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    The problem with that Hone Claw set is that it's basically just a DD set that's stopped by anything faster than it -- and gen 5 released a huge number of Pokemon that are, essentially meaning that literally a turn after you set up you'll either be killed or turned into setup bait.

    edit: and mence really has no use for stone edge, btw
    Mence can hit fliers like Gyarados, Zapdos, other Mence, the Electric Genie, and the Fire Moth with Stone Edge without locking itself into Outrage. +1 Stone Edge can also 2HKO Skarmory.

    Idk, while I can understand the problems with the Hone Claw set, being able to spam Dragon Rush with little consequense seems pretty cool. You cannot spam Dragon Rush on the Dragon Dancer, since the accuracy is terrible.

    Dragon Rush is basically a slightly weaker Outrage, with a flinch chance, in exchange for a crap accuracy. If I am playing against a defensive team, or run a crapload of para support, I would rather have the Claw Sharpen set to break those teams with greater ease. Outrage is a liability against Stall, since it lets Forry/Skarm and other things set up.

    It is just another way to abuse Moxie I guess without resorting to the weak Dragon Claw. Outrage cannot be used with Moxie.

    Overall, I do agree with you though. Claw Sharpen is pretty eh, and should be dropped I guess.
    Last edited by Gamefreak; 3rd January 2011 at 12:44 AM.


  13. #38

    Default Salamence 5th generation moveset

    Substitute Salamence@ leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    Ev's: 252 Atk, 252 Hp, 4 Spd OR 252 Atk, 252 spd, 4 Hp
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -Sp.Atk)

    -Substitute
    -Dragon claw/ Dragon tail
    -Fire fang/ Toxic
    -Earthquake/ Level ground/ Aerial Ace

    This set kind of mixes the offensive and defensive spectrums of Salamence into one. If you want sort of defensive, go with dragon tail instead of dragon claw, toxic instead of fire fang, and level ground insetad of earthquake. Or you can just keep earthquake. Offensive is the other way around. Substitute makes Salamence almost invulnerable to attacks, while he can just wail on the opponent. Dragon claw is more powerful and gets STAB, but dragon tail lets you switch out a troublesome pokemon (your opponent's.), and also gets STAB. Fire fang can burn and flinch, but toxic gets them slow but steady, even after Salamences faints. Earthquake is the powerhose move that ruins bulky steels, destroys heatran, and can take down pesky rock pokemon. Level ground hits and lowers speed, which is... ok, I guess. Aerial ace works when your opponent uses smokescreen. Intimidate lowers attack and weakens physical sets. The defensive ev set is the first one; it makes salamence sort of bulky. The offensive set is the second one. Even with that ev pool, it can still make quite a few substitutes. Adamant increases attack, but you can run jolly if you want. Leftovers restores hp, which is good to make substitutes. Even if it is a little, it still makes a difference in how the battle could end. It's a semi-interesting set. Try it out if you want.

    P.S. This set is two sets put together. You're supposed to choose either offensive or defensive.
    Last edited by ThePhoenixarisen9; 8th January 2011 at 8:51 PM.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamefreak
    It is just another way to abuse Moxie I guess without resorting to the weak Dragon Claw. Outrage cannot be used with Moxie.
    Unfortunately, that's all it is, a cheap way to abuse Moxie. Of all of Salamence's sets, it's the most prone to revenge killing, save perhaps MixMence. It's also setup bait for Randorosu.

    @ThePheonixarisen9: That looks like two Salamence sets pinned together with slashits.
    Last edited by Eon Master; 3rd January 2011 at 1:25 AM.
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  15. #40

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    I've always been a fan of the Gen 4 PotW, although sometimes the EVs are questionable. Either way, I loved them, and I specifically made an account here to debate in the PotW. They [Gen 4 PotW] grew somewhat weirder over the years, but nevertheless I shall model my posts as such, with a hint of the way Smogon does its reviews (when I came here I fully expected there would be a voting on the PotW). If all the archives are not documented neatly on Serebii's home page as they were before, however, I'm afraid I will be too lazy to take part in it.

    #373-Salamence
    95 HP, 135 Atk, 80 Def, 110 SpAtk, 80 SpDef, 100 Spd

    PokeDex: -omitted-

    Overview: From the earth, the land, the sea and sky, this star from the not-so-distant past is argubly the most famous non-Legend Dragon. Largely due to its 135 Atk and 110 SpAtk, it sailed from OU into Ubers and is now descending back into OU. As expected, its plethora of original sets are still plenty viable and are as powerful as they ever have been before, which is thankful as Salamence didn't recieve anything truly worthwhile in the Gen shift. Physical attacker, Special attacker, Physical booster, Wall, even Wish no less! There is almost nothing Salamence can't do, serving as a painful reminder to opponents it is better to have half at full health, then a full team full of weakened Pokemon.

    Ability:
    -Intimidate: A relatively simple Ability but perhaps one of the most famed of all time, it is an instant Growl whenever Salamence enters battle. This Ability is important should Salamence have to switch into a Pokemon who may have Stone Edge or Ice Shard. In general, however, this is a boost for whenever Salamence is running a defensive set, a boosting set, or a Choice set. In short, this Ability is ineffably useful.

    Hidden Ability:
    -Moxie: An incredible Ability, any user of this immediately gains a 50% Attack boost of its original Attack Stat whenever it attains a knockout with its own attack. Being from Dream World, Moxie is illegal with any of Salamence's Tutor moves, most notably Outrage. This must mean that Salamence must stick to the more conservative Dragon Claw (or the very shaky Dragon Rush). All-in-all, the decision to use Moxie depends on a decision between a more conservative sweeper or a beserking powerhouse, but it still stands the default Ability is definitely more flexible.

    Dragon Dancer
    Expert Belt/Life Orb/Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Intimidate/Moxie
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 SpAtk
    Naive (+Spd, -SpDef), Hasty (+Spd, -Def)
    Dragon Dance
    Outrage/Dragon Claw
    Earthquake
    Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Stone Edge

    The classic, perhaps most famous set. After a Dragon Dance, just about anything will drop to a +1 Outrage, while Salamence goes about outrunning even Scarfers with its already hearty 100 Base Speed. Dragon is only resisted by Steel, so when paired with Earthquake, the only resistors are Skarmory and Levitate Bronzong. That is where a Special Fire attack comes in.
    Fire Blast outright incinerates any Bug/Steel. An Expert Belt is required for a 92.31% OHKO on fully Special Defensive Forretress. Genesect and Scizor are more durable Special Defensively, but for them running max SpDef is nearly nonexistant. A fully Special Defensive Skarmory is impossible to KO, but without SpDef EVs, a Life Orbed Fire Blast can bring that Skarmory to 2% or lower. In the case of fully Special Defensive Nattorei, either a dry Fire Blast or an Expert Belt Flamethrower will deal 76.14%. A Life Orbed Fire Blast will do anywhere between 89.77% - OHKO.
    For generic purposes, Life Orb plus Fire Blast is the best route. Of course, Expert Belt is a fully acceptable option if the 10% recoil is too much. Leftovers may be used as a "default" Item, and Lum Berry can importantly negate any Status that would destroy Salamence.
    This includes the self-induced Confusion that may come from Outrage.

    Special Attacking
    Choice Specs/Choice Scarf/Expert Belt/Life Orb
    252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 Atk
    Naive (+Spd, -SpDef), Hasty (+Spd, -SpDef), Timid (+Spd, -SpAtk), Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    Intimidate
    Draco Meteor
    Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    Hydro Pump/Dragon Dance/Hone Claws
    Dragon Pulse/Outrage/Dragon Claw

    This set capitalizes on Salamence's Special Attacking capability. It is designed to launch powerful attacks at the start of the match, and perhaps clean up near end game. Behind Outrage (which may or may not be used to assault Special walls or as a generic attack), Draco Meteor is Salamence's most powerful option. Complementing this incredibly devestating move is Fire Blast. Dragon/Fire, however, can be walled by Heatran, which is easily disposed of by another of Salamence's powerful Special moves: Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is also notable as a powerful attack on its own, happily drowning Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Gliscor, or Blaziken without having to resort to Draco Meteor, as well as generic neutrality with Dragon. In the Ubers environment, it gains a notable hit over Ho-oh. Dragon Pulse is Salamence's strongest neutral option when Draco Meteor is unnecessary.
    When not using Choice, Dragon Dance is acceptable to boost Salamence's Speed and also boost the power of Outrage should it be used, turning Salamence into a ferocious wall breaker. If Speed is unnecessary, Salamence has the option to boost its Accuracy via Hone Claws, which also boosts Outrage's power. Remember if Outrage is unneeded, be sure not to place the spare 4 EVs into HP to mitigate Stealth Rock damage.

    Physical Attacking
    Choice Band/Choice Scarf/Expert Belt/Life Orb
    Intimidate
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 SpAtk
    Jolly (+Spd, -SpAtk), Adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)
    Outrage
    Earthquake/Aqua Tail
    Stone Edge
    Dragon Claw/Fire Fang/Fire Blast/Draco Meteor

    This is the physical version of the previous set, now boasting a higher main offensive stat. In place of Draco Meteor comes Outrage to sweep with. Unlike Meteor, which generally only permits one hit a time, Outrage forces you to repeat it twice or thrice. Also similarly, Outrage's locking complements the locking of a Choice Item, mitigating the lack of flexibility from both side-effects. The coverage from Ground and Rock is generally a good one. Instead of Earthquake, Aqua Tail is an acceptable option while still maintaining neutrality. A super-effective Aqua Tail is on par with a neutral Outrage (with 10% less Accuracy). Aqua Tail's biggest selling point, however, is the potential to strike floating Heatran or Doryuzu. Dragon Claw takes the place of Dragon Pulse as a generic move, and can be used if you do not think it is safe to start spamming Outrage. In place of Dragon Claw can be Fire Blast, useful for catching any Steel-type that laughs at Earthquake, or Draco Meteor, which can be used to hit targets such as Gliscor, Hippowdon, or just a powerful hit for any target that might defy Outrage. Fire Fang is an acceptable option in the place of Fire Blast, though usually the targets that are meant to be hit by Fire have considerably more Def than SpDef.

    RestTalk
    Leftovers/Chesto Berry/Life Orb
    248 HP, 204 SpDef, 36 Spd
    Careful (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    Dragon Dance/Hone Claws/Toxic/Dragonbreath/Wish
    Dragon Tail/Dragon Rush/Outrage

    Salamence's defending capability is acceptable, especially when coupled with Intimidate. From there, Salamence has many options to play with. Dragon Dance or Hone Claws are the offensive options. Dragon Rush is meant to be used with Hone Claws, quickly attaining damage, with a chance to Flinch anything it does not immediately faint. Outrage is meant to be used with Dragon Dance. Because Salamence can afford to take numerous hits, it has the chance to set up numerous Dances. It's just a bonus Outrage's effect does not come into effect when picked through Sleep Talk. Dragon Tail is the most defensive option of all, and can be used with either boosting move. Hone Claws perfects Dragon Tail's Accuracy. With Dragon Dance, Salamence gains Speed (obviously) to do its RestTalking. It's just a bonus that Sleep Talk overrides Dragon Tail's negative priority, canceling the opponent's move while racking high damage. Outside of Sleep Talk, Dragon Tail will also help eschew any opposing Roars or Whirlwinds, when factoring Mence's natural Speed. Instead of a boosting move, Toxic, Dragonbreath, and Wish are Status options for a truly defensive set.
    The Speed and defensive EVs are meant to outrun Tyranitar after a single Dragon Dance. This may be changed to your whimsy.

    Bulkymence
    Leftovers
    Intimidate
    248 HP, 252 Def, 8 Speed
    Impish (+Def, -SpAtk), Careful (+SpDef, -SpAtk)
    Wish/Roost
    Dragon Tail/Dragon Claw/Dragon Pulse/Fly
    Earthquake/Toxic/Protect/Roar/Flamethrower

    As aforementioned, Salamence has capable defensive qualities. In tandem with this, it can run two of the game's best recovery moves: Wish or Roost, both obviously with different defensive potential. Salamence can choose one of three STAB options, and then has two slots left for one of five supplementary options.

    Other Options:
    Aerial Ace and Hidden Power gives Salamence a chance to use its Flying STAB, but are usually too weak to net any usefulness. Fly is noticably more powerful, but the "invulnerable" stage may give the opponent a chance to take advantage of the lost tempo, and Salamence still finds little use to apply its alternative STAB. Still, Fly is a powerful neutral Attack, and can possibly be used to stall residual damage.

    Brick Break may be used as a "safety" option against Blissey, but is a poor choice otherwise and has terrible coverage together with Earthquake. A Brick Break cannot net a 2HKO on Nattorei without Def EVs without an Expert Belt or Spikes damage.

    Crunch can possibly be used, especially in the Ubers environment, but a super-effective Crunch will only equal Outrage in power.

    Roost can be used on any set. It can allow for recovering off Life Orb damage or to attain more Dragon Dances. The problem is that Salamence will rarely find room on its moveslots or the time to recover efficiently. The same applies to generic ChestoRest without Sleep Talk.

    Hone Claws pales in comparison to Dragon Dance. Being an Egg move, however, Dragon Dance may be imcompatible with some of Salamence's other moves. Additionally, there are times where Salamence is not focusing on its Speed and is running several inaccurate moves, notably Dragon Rush.

    Stone Edge or Rock Slide are notable in OU for being able to nail Gyarados and Zapdos, or popping a Steel type's Balloon. Salamence struggles to find room to run it with Dragon Dance, though in Ubers, it gains notable hits on Lugia, Ho-oh, and Skymin. The 20 more g's compared to a STAB Outrage may be necessary to score previously unattainable OHKO's.

    Substitute is an okay filler move in general. In Salamence's case, it has the potential to negate any Status move used in attempt to hinder it, but Salamence usually cannot find the time.

    If the only purpose of Stone Edge is to hit Gyarados, Thunder Fang may be used, but has very little usage otherwise.

    Dragon Fang/Draco Plate is a possible alternative to Expert Belt should you not want the Life Orb recoil. This benefit is obviously expanded upon when two Dragon attacks are run.

    Yache Berry or Haban Berry can lower the damage from Ice or Dragon hits, respectively. They are highly situational and usually can only hope to see use when playing in Ubers, but they can give Salamence that saving grace for one last Dragon Dance.

    In defensive sets, either 212 EVs (for full mileage off Leftovers) or 248 EVs (for less mileage when taking Stealth Rock) for HP is ideal. For offensive sets, use the spare 4 EVs in either the secondary offensive Stat or in either defence.

    Notable Illegal Combinations
    Moxie with any of: Aqua Tail, Iron Defence, Natural Gift, Outrage, Roost, Sleep Talk, Wish
    Wish or Refresh with any of: Hydro Pump, Dragon Dance, Dragon Rush, each other

    Partnerships:
    As with any Pokemon with boosting moves, Wobbuffet can easily turn any opponent into Encore bait for Salamence. This is further bolstered by Salamence's wide array of resistances, especially covering Wobbuffet's Bug weakness. Aside from this, Wobbuffet the Tickle monster can help pave a path for any Physical Salamence, Dragon Dance or not. From the other perspective, Salamence's Wall breaking powers helps eliminate the defensive threats that may give Wobbuffet issues. Finally, Wobbuffet's Counter can reduce a Choice Banders' Ice Shard to dust.
    Steel by itself grants a very frustrating defence when paired with Salamence's typing and Ability. Forretress, although not technically resisting Rock, can lay any type of hazard you wish to help weaken your opponent's team for a full-out Salamence sweep, as well as to discourage switching in general. Also very important, Forretress' Rapid Spin destroys the Stealth Rocks that cut away a quarter of Salamence's HP per switch in. Finally, Forretress' low Speed allows it to take a hit right before Volt Changing away into Salamence's star appearance. Nattorei is very similar in this regard, trading the Ice resist for the Rock resistance. Although Nattorei cannot use many of the moves Forretress can, it is still very noticable for its astounding SpDef. Both Forry and Natty are able to Gyro Ball the Pokemon that can outspeed Salamence for heavy damage, such as Gengar or Lati@s. Nattorei has special mention for being able to Power Whip opposing Cloyster, while Forretress has access to either Volt Change or Zap Cannon. Speaking of speed, Scizor's Bull Punch helps settle any of the aforementioned opponents.
    Registeel is a Legendary Pokemon equipped with many diverse moves, most notable are Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock. Being a defensive pure Steel, it has fantastic synergy with Salamence. Psychic does not disrupt the Dragon-Steel synergy, meaning Jirachi, Bronzong, and Metagross are all strong partners with Salamence. Similarly to Registeel, all these Pokemon have their own long lists of support moves, most notably Reflect plus Light Screen. Aianto has high Stats and has its own support options. Mawile, despite having low Stats, can support Salamence with its own Intimidate and ability to Baton Pass Stockpile and Swords Dance. Heatran is also famed for its ability to take on opposing Steel and Dragon types, or for being able to cast Burns. Finally, although Blissey is a plain Normal-type, she has the plain bulk to help take Ice Beams for Salamence, as well as strongly benefiting from Intimidate. Blissey herself also is good friends with any of the Steel-types Salamence may be partnered with.
    In Ubers, Salamence is almost completely overshadowed by Rayquaza. This can only mean one thing: use them together! With Salamence's higher Speed, it can help clear the opponents that might stand a problem to Rayquaza, and once those are gone, Rayquaza can be there for the coup de grasse. The other way around, Rayquaza can wreck havoc onto the opponent's team, and once it goes down, your weakened opponent discovers you have a faster-yet-weaker Rayquaza waiting in the wings...
    In terms of Doubles and Triples, Salamence has a niche in literally doubling or tripling the mileage off its Intimidate. Being a Pokemon who loves to set up, Salamence enjoys healthy protection from its partner's behalf. This ranges from Fake Outs to Sleep Powders to DualScreens and Follow Mes. With the added possibilities of Helping Hands, Salamence also has the power to step down from Outrage or Draco Meteor to Dragon Claw or Dragon Pulse, or the chance to summon an impossibly powerful Earthquake. In Triples, the invulnerability portion of Fly is greatly boosted, and Salamence is given the privilege of being to attack any target it desires with a Flying attack.
    Lastly, Salamence benefits from the ability to see all of your opponent's active Pokemon during Rotation Battles, allowing you to know exactly how to prepare Salamence to sweep. Salamence can attack all your opponent's Pokemon at once with Earthquake, yet holds resistance against an opponent's Surf.

    Counters:
    As you may know, a monster as utterly diverse as Salamence will strike fear into the opponent, thanks to Salamence's limitless options. If there is one thing that is consistent, however, that is Salamence's glaring x4 Ice weakness. Any Ice Sharder can jump over Salamence's high Speed and instantly slaughter it, likely OHKO'ing it. Perhaps most dangerous of them all is Cloyster, who not only can take Physical hits with ease, it has access to the fatal Shell Break, easily setting up on an outraged Salamence. A more defensive approach, Steel types can easily absorb a Dragon attack, then proceed with whatever they please. Bronzong, Forretress, or Nattorei can all easily take an Outrage and proceed to Gyro Ball.
    Regirock is THE Physical wall, being able to take even an Earthquake, threatening with either Rock STAB or Thunder Wave in return. Rotom Appliances have considerable defensive qualities to allow them take a hit on either side. They can cripple Salamence with either a Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave, and possibly even Blizzard. Scarfed Blizzards will instantly OHKO Salamence, an attack Salamence must be especially be wary of in Doubles or higher.
    Alternatively, you can go straight to beating Salamence in pure Speed. Lati@s, Gengar, and Garchomp can easily outspeed and wipe out Salamence, though they must be equipped with a Scarf if they intend to switch in on Dragon Dance. Scizor's Bullet Punch outspeeds Salamence no matter what the circumstance and has the potential to rip a hole in Salamence's HP. Swampert or Cresselia, when properly EV'd, can take whatever Salamence throws at it and retaliate with Ice.
    In the Ubers environment, Groudon has the Def to take even a +1 Outrage, then respond with either Thunder Wave or Stone Edge. A Lugia can swiftly take out Salamence, but must avoid Stone Edge in return.

    Attainability: -omitted-

    Evolution: -omitted-

    Anime/Manga Appearances: -omitted-

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    The problem with that Hone Claw set is that it's basically just a DD set that's stopped by anything faster than it -- and gen 5 released a huge number of Pokemon that are, essentially meaning that literally a turn after you set up you'll either be killed or turned into setup bait.

    edit: and mence really has no use for stone edge, btw
    Not necessarily, Hone Claws allows Salamence to use Dragon Rush, which is superior to Dragon Claw in nearly everything, except Accuracy. Assuming Salamence won't get OHKO, he remains an effective Physical sweeper if he's running Jolly nature, or possibly an Adamant nature.


    SPECIALSHIPPER!



    "Pokemon? Isn't that for little kids?" -Guy that got whacked in the head two seconds later

  17. #42

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    Ah, double post, my bad...


    SPECIALSHIPPER!



    "Pokemon? Isn't that for little kids?" -Guy that got whacked in the head two seconds later

  18. #43

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    The thing is though, you basically need paralysis support on literally everything other than Salamence (and a reliable way to remove Randorosu and Doryuuzu) in order to have any chance at sweeping with a Hone Claw set, since its so damn easy to revenge, as literally anything with base 101+ speed can just switch in. You can even switch in on it relatively easily, since it can't really afford to utilize its STAB until it's set up for fear of an untimely miss due to the absolutely horrible accuracy.

    So yeah, I'm remaining adamant on the fact that Hone Claw Salamence is really gimmicky and ineffective in comparison to other sets.

  19. #44
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    Default

    I'm truly disappointed with the lack of defensive Mences in this thread.

    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Flamethrower
    - Roost
    - Toxic / Substitute

    Excellent shuffler and Fighting type counter in one (which FLOOD the generation 5). It's actually pretty similar to the defensive Gyarados, but it has a different, yet amazing typing, more general power (STAB Dragon Tail hurts even with no Attack EVs) and an instant recovery. Another advantage it has that Gyarados arguably doesn't is unpredictability. People start switching like crazy the instant they see a Salamence, which helps him rack more residual damage via Dragon Tail and hazards.

    36 Spd beats Zapdos, Jirachi (if it's still used...) and another base 100 Pokemon that commonly run 32 Spd. The rest was used to maximize his physical bulk. Even with an Impish nature, Flamethrower is stronger than Fire Fang, and thus, I have chosen the former.

    Recommended teams: balanced (biased towards defense).

  20. #45
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    Default Salemence-Ultimate Pokemon

    as touched on before Salemence has not really changed from the generation switch.
    the few new details hav already been mentioned so im not gonna bring them up

    heres my set build
    Salamence @life orb/leftovers(i love the health restoration)
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Stone Edge
    - Brick Break
    - Dragon Claw

    salemence has very high based speed so if u EV train it for speed you will certainly not need a quick claw

    My set is odd beacuse of the use of brick break. I no its an odd idea to put with salemence but I find it works favorably well and is better tha
    n other choices such as aerial ace fly or earthquake.

  21. #46
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    Default salamence set


    bestsalamencesetever@lifeorb
    ability moxie
    adamant nature/jolly
    evs:4hp 252attack 252 speed
    dragon dance
    dragon claw
    fire fang
    earthquake
    This is the best physical salamence set ever. I LOVE salamence its my favorite number 1 pokemon tied with swampert. I've used tons of salemence sets, and this set yeilds the best results...by far. Salamence has a huge attack stat and great speed, which is what this set takes full advantage of. This set can sweep incredibly easily if ypu can pull of a dragon dance. The boost in speed can give salamence a large advantage. Salamences new ability:moxy allows salamence to get an enormous boost because most likely salamence will probably sweep multiple pokemon so salamence's attack continues to grow with each opponent fainted. This set works best in single battles, and a great partner is swampert. Swampert can set up stealth rock and do a fair amount of damage to pokemon before salamence is sent in. I've used the two pokemon together and it forms such a great team that there are few ways to beat salamence. The general idea is you have a swampert lead with focus sash. This allows you to set up a stealth rock, which chips a chunk of hp out of pokemon's hp on the switch in. The residual damge makes salamence need a bit less power to faint a pokemon. Also steel pokemon are resistant to ice and dragon, allowing salamence longer life. In a double battle a togekiss can use follow me to let salamence set up several dragon dances. Fire fang can do huge damage to steel pokemon after an attack boost an life orb. Zorark could be used to scout your opponents salamence countes by appearing to be salamence drawing out its counter. This alows you to have a general idea of their counter. It still has its issues but it Could work ... I guess. Earthquake is a great move and works great to kill pokemon named heatran. A new trick salamence got is hone claws. This works great with dragon rush which is incredibly strong. The only problem is you don't get the speed boost which could to salamence fainting. I've tested this set personaly and salamence has never let me down... ever. Thunder fang is an option if you have a large fear of gyrados or kyogre. Normally salamence should not be anywhere near kyogre but kyogre has a lower defence stat so it is possible to KO it but, but it is best if it already has damage. The nature depends on how much you are worried on being the faster pokemon so salamence does not faint. The extra attack would be so your more likely to 1hitko a bulky opponent.

    Salaswampert
    Also the idea that the comunity can create sets is genius, and is something I've always wanted to do.
    Last edited by salaswampert; 9th January 2011 at 3:53 AM.

  22. #47
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    I'm not exactly great with writing sets, but I'll give it a shot. Counters and synergy are more of my thing.

    Ubermence @ Life Orb
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Claw / Outrage
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge / Earthquake
    - Dragon Dance

    Dragon Claw is my preferred route because leaving yourself open in the Uber tiers for a switch in is never a good decision, but if you're near the end of a fight, Outrage's raw power can be a saving grace against bulkier ubers like Giratina. Crunch is there for the massive amount of Psychic types present in the uber tier. For a last offensive move, decide between Stone Edge and Earthquake, depending on what coverage your team may need more of. Finally, Dragon Dance provides a raw Attack and Speed boost.

    Countering Salamence

    Donphan and Cloyster can eat Salamence's Outrages and launch back Ice Shards, which makes them reliable responses to most move sets that use Outrage. Donphan must watch out for Hydro Pump and Cloyster must avoid Stone Edge respectively. Bulky water types with Ice Beam or Ice Punch work wonders, like Swampert, Slowbro, Vaporeon, Milotic, Empoleon, and Manaphy.

    One trick that works on rare occasions is luck based, but effective. After being annihilated by an Outrage, throwing in a Shell Break Omastar with the free turn will allow you to tank through one hit, then fire off a lethal Ice Beam the following turn. Cloyster can do the same trick with either Ice Beam or Icicle Spear. Again, this is a very luck based gimmick.

    Weavile decimates sets that use Hone Claws or Choice Band instead of Dragon Dance. Skarmory and Bronzong can both tank Choice Band sets, whilst Blissey tanks the Special Sweeper variants. Doryuuzu with Sand Throw can take Salamence down with Stone Edge.

    Pokemon with more Speed than Salamence with Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave can rip it a new one. Especially pokemon with Mischievous Heart. Mischievous Paralyzers include Voltolos, Murkrow, Volbeat, Illumise, and Lepardas. Sableye can burn Salamence easily with Will-o-Wisp.

    Another gimmicky option to use against Salamence is Trick Room. Salamence is really fast, so using a move that turns its own strength against it just seems natural. Especially with pokemon like Octillary and Gastrodon who can follow it with a first strike Ice Beam.

    Besides the main listed options, Stone Edge revenge kills are a very viable option, especially against Outrage users. Salamence is generally pretty tricky too counter directly.

    Synergy

    Machamp: I'm against the use of Hone Claws set, so here's a substitute. No Guard brings Dragon Rush, Stone Edge, Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor, and Fire Blast to 100% Accuracy. 100% Accuracy Dynamicpunch also knocks out Cloyster fairly easily.

    Porygon-Z: Pairing the Physical Variants with Porygon-Z gives Salamence protection from most of its counters. A Porygon-Z with the Bolt-Beam combo takes out Bulky waters, other dragons, and Donphan easily.

    Magnezone: Keeps Steel types in play for Special Variants with Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Plus the massive resistance pool is great.

    Anything faster than Salamence that is faster than it and knows Whirlwind and Roar that can stop anything that wants to revenge Salamence mid Outrage.

    ... That's about all I got. Hopefully this will help out, and thanks for giving the community more voice in the Pokemon of the Week segment.
    This is a signature that doesn't eat up an absurd amount of space.

  23. #48
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    I'm surprising pleased with how many replies this has gotten. keep up the good work everyone! I really hope this project works well, and I especially hope it is still popular by the time 5th gen pokemon are introduced. so please everyone, keep this project as alive and successful as it is now

    what did everyone think of my restalkddmence set? does it seem legitimate to anyone else or am I just a fanboy for my own ideas?

    EDIT: used everyone like fifty times in this post. ridiculous.

  24. #49

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    It's better than at least half of the trash posted in this thread, but I personally think that a standard defensive set with Roost would be slightly more effective, as I personally find Gyarados to pull the resttalk thing off a bit better.

    However, it was a solid set, and i need to test it out (I would've already but I'm to busy laddering to 1500 for suspect voting rights)

  25. #50
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by marioman223 View Post
    Salamence @ Life Orb
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Speed / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Hone Claws
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail/Outrage


    Counters for this set would be something like Skarmory. Skarmory does take normal damage from Stone Edge, but can take a few hits from it with it's defenses. But I can't think of a lot to counter it with a great attack and defense stat. Heatran, Zekrom, and Aggron are weak to Earthquake, Kyuremu and Reshiram are weak to Stone Edge, and Ononokusu is weak to the Dragon moves.


    Click 'em!

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