I do agree that you need entry hazards to make the best use out of phazing.
I do agree that you need entry hazards to make the best use out of phazing.
Last edited by Sceptile Leaf Blade; 4th January 2011 at 3:30 PM.
I'm going to try compiling as many potential teammates as I can here. I'll be constantly updating it, so look forward to it.
Heatran: He's a big one. Salamence resists all his weaknesses, and Heatran resists two of Mence's weaknesses. He draws in Fighting-type attacks for Salamence, and Mence draws in Ice- and Dragon-type attacks for him. Heatran also removes Steel-types for a potential Salamence sweep. Heatran also has access to SR to assist Salamence if you can't find another place for it.
Garchomp: I'm sure several people just did double-takes when they read this, but hear me out first. While they're not quite as powerful as SD Yache Chomp and DD Ononokusu, SD Yache Chomp and DD Salamence work together to soften up and scout their counters and checks (which are extremely similar if not often identical) better than 'Kusu + Chomp. Salamence also has a slight speed advantage over 'Kusu which allows it to outspeed more Pokemon (like opposing Ononokusu), and it draws in Rock-type moves for Garchomp to switch into. Salamence also resists Roopushin's Mach Punch, which would stop a weakened Garchomp cold, and can soften up oppsing Pokemon with Intimidate for an easier setup.
Nattorei: When it comes to defensive partners for Salamence, Nattorei is easily one of the best. With resistance to Salamence's Rock and Dragon weaknesses and access to either Stealth Rock or Spikes, Nattorei can help Salamence set up much more easily. It also attracts Fighting- and Fire-type attacks for Salamence to switch into. Hell, it even carries Thunder Wave, which can help non-DD Salamence with causing much more damage.
Magnezone: As one of the best Steel killers in the metagame, Magnezone should be given immediate consideration as a teammate for DD Mence. It resists all three of Mence's weaknesses, and Mence resists all three of Magnezone's weaknesses. This means it can not only remove Steel-types that would hinder Mence's sweep, but it can also act as a check to Scarfed Dragon-types like the Lati-twins that try to switch in on Salamence's Dragon Dance and outspeed or after he has KO'd something to revenge him. Magnezone also synergizes well with Specs, Scarf and MixMence, since it's an excellent check for Choice Band Scizor, who enjoys switching into resisted Dragon-type attacks and striking back with Bullet Punch.
And guys, enough Hone Claws / Claw Sharpen sets. They're too easy to revenge kill and lack the immediate threat that every other Salamence set brings because its moves will usually miss before you're set up. It's a gimmick, nothing more.
"where did the big bang come from?"
nature:naughty(+att -sdef)or lonely(+att -def)
This set is simple;Fire of an draco meteor and murder annything not steel type or blissey.
When counting stab and dragon jewel boost(yes "dragon jewel!")the base power caps out on wery impressive 315.Dragon jewel powers up the first dragon type hit,but you will wery likely get a moxie boost after that anyway.When draco meteor got weak u start to fire out other attacks.dragon claw is you reliable stab move.Earthquake is neccecary so steel types doesnt wall you.Then the last slot depens on what you want to cover.Crunch is wery useful in the ubers covering all those psychic and ghost types.Stone edge is to pummel trough fliers.
i have 2 questions that have been bugging me....
1)why did we not start with a gen 5 pokemon?
2)@salaswampert(or anyone else who knows)-where do you get those little moving sprites?
oh on q 2 since there are the ones on the site i will assume those are the ones normally used.....
does anyone know how i could get them to access on another site....without copy at pasting from here?
Last edited by dark fire 6; 5th January 2011 at 12:54 AM.
trait: moxy or intimidate
Sdef:100, Def:100, HP:100, any remaining in attack
Let your foe scout out earthquake, thunder fang, fire fang. That should cover about every type in the game. Your opponent would switch to a bulky pokemon, then use dragon tail. Take out the foe, see bulky dragon tail. Repeat.
Last edited by Rotomknight; 5th January 2011 at 1:19 AM.
The Dragon Jewel set is outclassed by LO Sazando.
The defensive set right above my post has terrible EVs and useless coverage moves.
And finally, the "best sweeping salamence set ever" is sort of lolz, since you absolutely need a +spe nature.
Last edited by windsong; 5th January 2011 at 1:51 AM.
Best sweeping Mence is obviously the one I posted then Blue Harvest copied except moved the extra 6 EVs to HP.
EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Def, 4 Atk
Moxie increases Attack whenever you KO an opponent. With Attack boosted that high, you can OHKO pretty much anything very easily. Shell Bell boosts HP when you deal damage. The two work perfectly together. Flamethrower is reliable, and counteracts Steels and Shedinja. Earthquake covers everything that Steel does not. Dragon dance boosts it's Speed to an incredible level, while boosting Attack even more. Dragon Claw is actually pretty powerful with Adamant nature, 6 Attack boosts, and STAB, and has 100 accuracy and no negative side effects. the EV distribution counteracts an Adamant nature's effect on Special Attack, and since most of Salamence's weaknesses are Physical, a Defense boost is needed.
All the other sets are good too, btw.
Last edited by Archangel; 7th January 2011 at 12:08 AM. Reason: double posts merged
Well Salamence didn't really get any boosts in this Generation though many of the sets that worked in Gen 4 still work well. Here are just a few sets that still have a good effect:
Salamence @ Life Orb
EVs: 236Atk 252Spe 20SpA
Fire Blast/Heat Wave
MixDD Mence can still be a wrecking ball when considering it can fry Skarmory when it first comes in. Dragon Dance to boost Salamence's sweeping potential. Outrage is the same move it's always been for Salamence; an insane move that causes extreme damage to anything that isn't a Steel type. Dragon Claw can be used if you fear Ice Shard really badly. Earthquake takes out grounded Steels hoping to take Outrage. Fire Blast takes out the likes of Skarmory, Forretress, and Balloon Doryuzuu. Heat Wave is an option if you're preturbed about the 85% accuracy from Fire Blast. Life Orb is the obvious item choice for maximum damage output. Max Speed allows you to outspeed Scarf Sazandora and Scarf Ononokusu after a single Dragon Dance even if they use +Speed natures. 236 in Attack as your special attack move is situational only. Intimidate is the ability here as Mence can't use Outrage with Moxie. This set has very few counters thanks to packing a special attack that scores super effective damage on 2 of the premier physical walls in the game. ScarfChomp stops this Salamence at +1, but you can outspeed at +2 and beat Garchomp to the hit. Doryuzzu is also beaten at +2, but it can beat Salamence in a Sandstorm if Mence only has 1 DD boost. Other than that, Swift Swimmers in rain can stop it at +1, but only Floatzel can beat a Mence at +2. Ice Shard users can revenge kill Salamence, but none can come in on an attack.
Special Bulky Mence
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 236 HP 216 Sp.D 56 Def.
Though Salamence is often thought of as a terrifying sweeper, it's immunity to Ground, and resistances to common special attacking types like Fire, Grass, and Water allow Salamence to pull off a special bulky set. Even weaker Ice Beams can't OHKO this Salamence. Dragon Dance is there to bluff an all-out sweeping set and hopefully draw in a Balloon Heatran expecting to easily OHKO with Dragon Pulse. Dragon Claw and Earthquake combine for near perfect coverage to allow Salamence to attempt a sweep when the opponent's team has been weakened. Roost keeps Salamence in good health and remedies its unfortunate Stealth Rock weakness. Intimidate is the obvious ability here to cushion physical blows upon entry. The EVs are put primarily in HP and Special Defense to tank special attacks. The remaining EVs are place into Defense although they can easily be put into Speed to give yourself a better chance to sweep late. Skarmory and Forretress stop Salamence cold as it has no Fire moves to deal with them. Magnezone is the most direct counter as it traps and kills both with STAB Thunderbolt and HP Fire respectively. Salamence and Magnezone also resist all 17 types which makes for a good defensive core on a team. Heatran deserves a mention as it threatens Skarmory and Forretress with STAB Fire attacks. Blaziken makes Forretress complete setup fodder(barring Explosion) but must avoid Brave Bird from Skarmory and thus is shaky as a Skarmory counter.
Salamence @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
EVs: 252 Spe 252 SpA 4 SpD
Heat Wave/Fire Blast
This is basically the full notable extent to Salamence's special movepool. You can go 2 ways with this as Choice Specs makes it a battering ram while Life Orb gives it more freedom between attacks. Hydro Pump decimates all forms of Heatran and is resisted by few when combined with Dragon moves to begin with. Draco Meteor is deadly with a Specs set and it can also be a last ditch attack if Life Orb is in effect. Dragon Pulse is the good ol' reliable STAB for either Specs or LO. Heat Wave is preferred over Fire Blast as it has slightly higher accuracy and one miss could spell Salamence's doom. Like any Special Attacker, this Salamence is stopped cold by Blissey. Espeon can bounce its own Thunder Wave or Toxic back at it thanks to Magic Mirror, but needs Psycho Shock to do much from there. Guts Roobushin welcome's Blissey's status attacks and scares it off with STAB Fighting moves. Heatran or Magnezone can lure in and Explode on Blissey or any other Special Wall to help Salamence's sweep. EVs are self-explanitory. Max Speed and Max Special Attack.
Salamence @ Choice Band
EVs: 252Spe 236Atk 20SpA
Stone Edge/Aqua Tail
Fire Blast/Draco Meteor
This sacrificies the ability to use Dragon Dance to pose an immediate threat to the opponent's teams. Without a resist, Choice Band STAB Outrage will hit like a train. Dragon Claw is an alternative if you are worried about being setup bait while locked in Outrage. Earthquake blasts grounded Steels only missing Levitate Bronzong, Skarmory, and any Balloon users. Stone Edge nails Gyarados, opposing Salamences, and Zapdos for catastrophic damage, but Aqua Tail destroys Doryuzzu and Heatran regardless of their item. The last slot is to nail some things Salamence can't do much to with physical moves. Fire Blast roasts Skarmory, Forretress, and Nattorei before they know what hit them. Draco Meteor will severely dent Gliscor expecting an Outrage. Intimidate is used as the ability and it basically looks exactly like the MixDD set explained earlier in this post. Stone Edge is the superior option over Aqua Tail almost every time as a STAB Outrage will hit for the same damage as a 2x effective Aqua Tail when Outrage is unresisted. This set is stopped by any Scarfed Dragon type as this Salamence can't increase its Speed. Heatran can stop most of them with Dragon Pulse or HP Ice but has to avoid Ground or Water attacks on the switch. Starmie is also a good partner as it beats Garchomp(non-Scarf) and can keep Stealth Rock off the field with Rapid Spin so Salamence can come and go more freely.
Conclusion: Though the Metagame around Salamence has changed, Salamence itself remains one of the best sweepers in the game with its great movepool and awesome sweeping stats. 100 Speed isn't what it once was, but it's still enough for Salamence to function very well as a sweeper. Its defenses aren't the best, but they're enough to allow it to take a hit or 2 and its typing allows it to resist most priority moves in the game which makes it harder to revenge kill. Great stats, good ability, and a wide movepool make Salamence a top choice for a sweeper on most any team.
Salamence will almost always need a +Speed nature in this Generation to outspeed the many Scarf Pokemon running a nature that boosts their attack stat of choice. That doesn't even include Sand Throw, Swift Swim, and to a lesser extent, Chlorophyll Pokemon in their respective weather conditions where Salamence will need a +2 Speed stat to strike them before they can since most will pack Rock or Ice attacks respectively.
If you can set up two ddances than you will generally outspeed them all you need is good prediction and set up pokemon baton passing speed would also be plausible im more of a power person i admit speed natures are good but I would't risk salamence to a faster opponent in the first place... Plus the higher the risk the higher return less risk less return even if salamence faints two pokemon than your salamence helped in your favor leaving you at five other pokemon if none have fainted and you opponent with 4,if none have previously fainted. Salamence also outruns a majority of pokemon anyway and not every pokemo has a choice scarf.
Last edited by salaswampert; 6th January 2011 at 11:53 PM.
Why was Jolly ScarfGon popular when Mence was around? Because Mence ran Naive so it could outspeed more threats or at least speed tie things.
Can a lum berry work on salamence? For it to sweep well, it cannot be paralyzed as well as being burned (for physocal moves) or sleep. Especially for the former part.
Incidentally, are we allowed to talk about bagon and shelgon too? Well, I only see Chansey being used for an NFE pokemon, so are we allowed to include an LC analyze of bagon too?
Not that I can think up of any though. Especially for shelgon, even though I though it could become a DD tank, its EV is too diffused so as to make any of its stats good.
Back to salamence, I think thunderbolt is worth considering on salamence, particulary in rotation battle. I can see it partnering well with heatran there as it has been mentioned earlier that they resist each other's weakness. However, what will happen when it comes to water Pokemon? Out of water to drown heatran, they are bound to have Ice moves as well, so salamence will take care of them with Thunderbolt.
I have checked again. Mence cannot learn TBolt after all HP Electric and Thunder Fang are the closest though.
In terms of base speed however, starmie and hiyakkie will out speed it. Tentacruel has the same speed as salamence. I think Nattorei works as partner number three. In type advantage, it is only weak against fighting and fire. The former can be covered by mence while the latter, heatran. The only thing to check is whether it can survive hiyakkie's fighting attacks with is 74/131/116 bulkiness. Otherwise, the only neutral hitsw are ice, ground, bug and flying; it can suck up everthing not super effective and return with power whip, especially for water types.
Last edited by pikadon92; 7th January 2011 at 2:39 AM.
-Hyper Beam/Dragon Pulse
Very much an all out "surprise" set. Hydro Pump stops Heatran and Rock and Ground types. Fire Blast is for the steel types. Draco Meteor - Draggon Types and STAB. Hyper Beam -could be used as a last ditch but Draco Meteor benefits from STAB and Dragon Pulse for a solid, strong attack
To the thunderbolt comment, what? Salamence can't learn Thunderbolt. Dragonite gets it, Zekrom gets it, Rayquaza gets it, but I'm pretty sure Salamence doesn't.
@kyogre, by pressing the edit button you can then find a button to delete posts to get rid of those double posts
Last edited by Sceptile Leaf Blade; 7th January 2011 at 12:03 AM.
Lum is pretty specialized, and normally LO is the better option unless you have something very specific you're attempting to accomplish (such as with Phillip's team "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers", iirc, which utilized Lum Mence + a U-Turn Uxie lead to hold Roserade leads at 0 layers of tspikes). But yeah, unless there's a very specific goal like that in mind, LO is usually more useful.
^ It would still probably merit a mention. It keeps Mence from being Statused, and it can remove Outrage's confusion as a one-shot item. While I'll agree that LO/Leftovers are almost always superior, it's still mentionable.
What most people don't really realize is that Salamence can make a (reasonable) wall. It is certainly better to go with a set that maximizes offensive potential. Although his common weaknesses and weakness to stealth rock aren't very good for him, proper support can make him formidable and fool some of his counters, supposing he's OU of course. He also has Roost and Intimidate, increasing his potential, and in addition learns Wish, which can make him a powerful Offensive Wish User, like Jirachi.
This person is clearly a Troll
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SDef
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
- Thunder Fang / Dragon Tail / Toxic
- Earthquake / Iron Defense / Fire Blast
Though not a defensive behemoth, Salamence displays several attributes that could contribute to it's defensive possibilities. 95 / 80 / 80 Defenses are nothing big, but are decently reasonable, and reasonable enough to fool it's counters, like Cresselia or (if you run Fire Blast) Scizor. SubRoost takes a leaf out of Zapdos' book, which Salamence has higher HP but lower defenses. Thunder Fang let's you counter (or hope to) Ice Fang Gyarados. With Entry Hazards, Dragon Tail can actually be effective on a stall team. Toxic also performs well and will allow you to outstall Cresselia and most counters who switch in expecting Physical Salamence. Earthquake targets steel types who could give Salamence a little of a problem. Iron Defense gets him bonus defense, and with +6 he becomes difficult to OHKO on the physical spectrum, even from Choice Band Tyranitar. Fire Blast is a good alternative and destroys Scizor, Nattorei and Skarmory, who can give Salamence Trouble. In this case, Relaxed is needed to increase damage output.
For those speaking of a Mono Attacker set...
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: (+Atk, -SpA)
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
I love the idea of doing the unexpected. RestTalk is never expected to come from a salamence, but after some testing, it is at least found effective. Dragon Dance increases Atk and Speed while sleeping, which will turn Salamence into a speedy tank. Luck is certainly needed in this, but what can you do. Dragon Claw for STAB, and a RestTalker can't afford to be confused. The EVs allow some decent HP bulk with Intimidate, and Max Attack is good, although if you wanted something more defensive, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Careful Nature can be used.
If Bagon Believes, it can fly! God, this isn't Peter Pan.
Salamence @ Leftovers
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
Long title, amirite? Wish Salamence has never even been considered by anyone. So, slap it into a DD set and you got a pretty nice pokemon. It is no Blissey at passing HP, but it's passable. Dragon Dance for you know why, and it can be a Psuedo-Flygon with Outrage and Earthquake.
An Unstoppable force beats an immovable object, if it smashes other things into it.
Salamence @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA) OR Jolly (+Spe, +SpA)
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail
This set makes a good Revenge Killer- than a sweeper. He can come in on a weakened pokemon and kill it, boosting his high attack to even higher levels. Which makes it easier to kill the next pokemon to get a boost. Hitting 9 / 17 of pokemon supereffective damage is nice too. The Moves have one set course, which is to user your scouting by another pokemon and use that to your advantage. Just pick the best move to get at all of their pokemon.
^This is for you sceptile. I have made Salamence seem superior to Flygon.^
Last edited by Sweep Freak; 9th January 2011 at 3:42 AM.
Scarf Salamence isn't bad. I actually like it better than Flygon. Same speed, better stats in every other area, better movepool, better ability, arguably better typing.
Flygon has different resistances (not better) and U-turn. It also lacks a SR weakness.
I don't know how it is in gen 5, but in early 4th gen Scarfmence had great synergy with things like offensive Heatran or Rock Polish Metagross (or any offensive steel) back around when Garchomp was OU. Besides having a ton of offensive synergy they also checked a lot of stuff. Salamence can switch in on Garchomp almost for free, laughing at any move except for Outrage and OHKOing with Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw or with Stealth Rocks down, Dragon Pulse. If you **** up prediction or miss and lose 'mence to an Outrage just send it Metagross or Heatran who will take like 20% from -1 Outrage and KO back somehow. Not just Garchomp, a lot of things would be taken out in a similar way.
Flygon didn't have the defenses or offenses to do this. Who cares about U-turning when you can just 2HKO your switch in.