Community POTW #1

[salaswampert]

I'm surprising pleased with how many replies this has gotten. keep up the good work everyone! I really hope this project works well, and I especially hope it is still popular by the time 5th gen pokemon are introduced. so please everyone, keep this project as alive and successful as it is now

what did everyone think of my restalkddmence set? does it seem legitimate to anyone else or am I just a fanboy for my own ideas?

EDIT: used everyone like fifty times in this post. ridiculous.

I think the resttalkddmence stet is really cool. It definently has a good strategy. I really like the idea.

The Dragon Jewel set is outclassed by LO Sazando.
The defensive set right above my post has terrible EVs and useless coverage moves.
And finally, the "best sweeping salamence set ever" is sort of lolz, since you absolutely need a +spe nature.

You have a good point the reason I put the attack nature was because with a dragon dance your speed will rise significantly and with max evs and ivs salamence has 299 speed which makes salamence incredibly fast. So speed nature is not needed just good.

[Eon8000]

Well Salamence didn't really get any boosts in this Generation though many of the sets that worked in Gen 4 still work well. Here are just a few sets that still have a good effect:

MixDD Mence

Salamence @ Life Orb
Naive nature
Intimidate
EVs: 236Atk 252Spe 20SpA
Dragon Dance
Outrage/Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Fire Blast/Heat Wave

MixDD Mence can still be a wrecking ball when considering it can fry Skarmory when it first comes in. Dragon Dance to boost Salamence's sweeping potential. Outrage is the same move it's always been for Salamence; an insane move that causes extreme damage to anything that isn't a Steel type. Dragon Claw can be used if you fear Ice Shard really badly. Earthquake takes out grounded Steels hoping to take Outrage. Fire Blast takes out the likes of Skarmory, Forretress, and Balloon Doryuzuu. Heat Wave is an option if you're preturbed about the 85% accuracy from Fire Blast. Life Orb is the obvious item choice for maximum damage output. Max Speed allows you to outspeed Scarf Sazandora and Scarf Ononokusu after a single Dragon Dance even if they use +Speed natures. 236 in Attack as your special attack move is situational only. Intimidate is the ability here as Mence can't use Outrage with Moxie. This set has very few counters thanks to packing a special attack that scores super effective damage on 2 of the premier physical walls in the game. ScarfChomp stops this Salamence at +1, but you can outspeed at +2 and beat Garchomp to the hit. Doryuzzu is also beaten at +2, but it can beat Salamence in a Sandstorm if Mence only has 1 DD boost. Other than that, Swift Swimmers in rain can stop it at +1, but only Floatzel can beat a Mence at +2. Ice Shard users can revenge kill Salamence, but none can come in on an attack.

Special Bulky Mence

Salamence @ Leftovers
Careful nature
Intimidate
EVs: 236 HP 216 Sp.D 56 Def.
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Roost

Though Salamence is often thought of as a terrifying sweeper, it's immunity to Ground, and resistances to common special attacking types like Fire, Grass, and Water allow Salamence to pull off a special bulky set. Even weaker Ice Beams can't OHKO this Salamence. Dragon Dance is there to bluff an all-out sweeping set and hopefully draw in a Balloon Heatran expecting to easily OHKO with Dragon Pulse. Dragon Claw and Earthquake combine for near perfect coverage to allow Salamence to attempt a sweep when the opponent's team has been weakened. Roost keeps Salamence in good health and remedies its unfortunate Stealth Rock weakness. Intimidate is the obvious ability here to cushion physical blows upon entry. The EVs are put primarily in HP and Special Defense to tank special attacks. The remaining EVs are place into Defense although they can easily be put into Speed to give yourself a better chance to sweep late. Skarmory and Forretress stop Salamence cold as it has no Fire moves to deal with them. Magnezone is the most direct counter as it traps and kills both with STAB Thunderbolt and HP Fire respectively. Salamence and Magnezone also resist all 17 types which makes for a good defensive core on a team. Heatran deserves a mention as it threatens Skarmory and Forretress with STAB Fire attacks. Blaziken makes Forretress complete setup fodder(barring Explosion) but must avoid Brave Bird from Skarmory and thus is shaky as a Skarmory counter.

SpecialMence

Salamence @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Timid nature
Intimidate
EVs: 252 Spe 252 SpA 4 SpD
Hydro Pump
Draco Meteor
Dragon Pulse
Heat Wave/Fire Blast

This is basically the full notable extent to Salamence's special movepool. You can go 2 ways with this as Choice Specs makes it a battering ram while Life Orb gives it more freedom between attacks. Hydro Pump decimates all forms of Heatran and is resisted by few when combined with Dragon moves to begin with. Draco Meteor is deadly with a Specs set and it can also be a last ditch attack if Life Orb is in effect. Dragon Pulse is the good ol' reliable STAB for either Specs or LO. Heat Wave is preferred over Fire Blast as it has slightly higher accuracy and one miss could spell Salamence's doom. Like any Special Attacker, this Salamence is stopped cold by Blissey. Espeon can bounce its own Thunder Wave or Toxic back at it thanks to Magic Mirror, but needs Psycho Shock to do much from there. Guts Roobushin welcome's Blissey's status attacks and scares it off with STAB Fighting moves. Heatran or Magnezone can lure in and Explode on Blissey or any other Special Wall to help Salamence's sweep. EVs are self-explanitory. Max Speed and Max Special Attack.

BandMence

Salamence @ Choice Band
Naive nature
Intimidate
EVs: 252Spe 236Atk 20SpA
Outrage/Dragon Claw
Earthquake
Stone Edge/Aqua Tail
Fire Blast/Draco Meteor

This sacrificies the ability to use Dragon Dance to pose an immediate threat to the opponent's teams. Without a resist, Choice Band STAB Outrage will hit like a train. Dragon Claw is an alternative if you are worried about being setup bait while locked in Outrage. Earthquake blasts grounded Steels only missing Levitate Bronzong, Skarmory, and any Balloon users. Stone Edge nails Gyarados, opposing Salamences, and Zapdos for catastrophic damage, but Aqua Tail destroys Doryuzzu and Heatran regardless of their item. The last slot is to nail some things Salamence can't do much to with physical moves. Fire Blast roasts Skarmory, Forretress, and Nattorei before they know what hit them. Draco Meteor will severely dent Gliscor expecting an Outrage. Intimidate is used as the ability and it basically looks exactly like the MixDD set explained earlier in this post. Stone Edge is the superior option over Aqua Tail almost every time as a STAB Outrage will hit for the same damage as a 2x effective Aqua Tail when Outrage is unresisted. This set is stopped by any Scarfed Dragon type as this Salamence can't increase its Speed. Heatran can stop most of them with Dragon Pulse or HP Ice but has to avoid Ground or Water attacks on the switch. Starmie is also a good partner as it beats Garchomp(non-Scarf) and can keep Stealth Rock off the field with Rapid Spin so Salamence can come and go more freely.

Conclusion: Though the Metagame around Salamence has changed, Salamence itself remains one of the best sweepers in the game with its great movepool and awesome sweeping stats. 100 Speed isn't what it once was, but it's still enough for Salamence to function very well as a sweeper. Its defenses aren't the best, but they're enough to allow it to take a hit or 2 and its typing allows it to resist most priority moves in the game which makes it harder to revenge kill. Great stats, good ability, and a wide movepool make Salamence a top choice for a sweeper on most any team.

[windsong]

You have a good point the reason I put the attack nature was because with a dragon dance your speed will rise significantly and with max evs and ivs salamence has 299 speed which makes salamence incredibly fast. So speed nature is not needed just good.

Salamence without max speed at +1 is outsped by scarf base 100s, scarf Ononokuso, scarf Sazando, and scarf base 90s, all of whom Mence absolutely needs the ability to at least tie with.

[Eon8000]

Salamence will almost always need a +Speed nature in this Generation to outspeed the many Scarf Pokemon running a nature that boosts their attack stat of choice. That doesn't even include Sand Throw, Swift Swim, and to a lesser extent, Chlorophyll Pokemon in their respective weather conditions where Salamence will need a +2 Speed stat to strike them before they can since most will pack Rock or Ice attacks respectively.

[salaswampert]

If you can set up two ddances than you will generally outspeed them all you need is good prediction and set up pokemon baton passing speed would also be plausible im more of a power person i admit speed natures are good but I would't risk salamence to a faster opponent in the first place... Plus the higher the risk the higher return less risk less return even if salamence faints two pokemon than your salamence helped in your favor leaving you at five other pokemon if none have fainted and you opponent with 4,if none have previously fainted. Salamence also outruns a majority of pokemon anyway and not every pokemo has a choice scarf.

[assassinsceptile]

Why was Jolly ScarfGon popular when Mence was around? Because Mence ran Naive so it could outspeed more threats or at least speed tie things.

[pikadon92]

Can a lum berry work on salamence? For it to sweep well, it cannot be paralyzed as well as being burned (for physocal moves) or sleep. Especially for the former part.

Incidentally, are we allowed to talk about bagon and shelgon too? Well, I only see Chansey being used for an NFE pokemon, so are we allowed to include an LC analyze of bagon too?

Not that I can think up of any though. Especially for shelgon, even though I though it could become a DD tank, its EV is too diffused so as to make any of its stats good.

Back to salamence, I think thunderbolt is worth considering on salamence, particulary in rotation battle. I can see it partnering well with heatran there as it has been mentioned earlier that they resist each other's weakness. However, what will happen when it comes to water Pokemon? Out of water to drown heatran, they are bound to have Ice moves as well, so salamence will take care of them with Thunderbolt.

I have checked again. Mence cannot learn TBolt after all HP Electric and Thunder Fang are the closest though.

In terms of base speed however, starmie and hiyakkie will out speed it. Tentacruel has the same speed as salamence. I think Nattorei works as partner number three. In type advantage, it is only weak against fighting and fire. The former can be covered by mence while the latter, heatran. The only thing to check is whether it can survive hiyakkie's fighting attacks with is 74/131/116 bulkiness. Otherwise, the only neutral hitsw are ice, ground, bug and flying; it can suck up everthing not super effective and return with power whip, especially for water types.

[KYOGRE-D]

Salamence@Choice Specs./Leftovers
Intimidate
Timid
-Hydro Pump
-Fire Blast
-Draco Meteor
-Hyper Beam/Dragon Pulse

Very much an all out "surprise" set. Hydro Pump stops Heatran and Rock and Ground types. Fire Blast is for the steel types. Draco Meteor - Draggon Types and STAB. Hyper Beam -could be used as a last ditch but Draco Meteor benefits from STAB and Dragon Pulse for a solid, strong attack

[Sceptile Leaf Blade]

Can a lum berry work on salamence? For it to sweep well, it cannot be paralyzed as well as being burned (for physocal moves) or sleep. Especially for the former part.

Back to salamence, I think thunderbolt is worth considering on salamence, particulary in rotation battle. I can see it partnering well with heatran there as it has been mentioned earlier that they resist each other's weakness. However, what will happen when it comes to water Pokemon? Out of water to drown heatran, they are bound to have Ice moves as well, so salamence will take care of them with Thunderbolt.

I guess Lum can work as a surprise. If foes don't see Life Orb recoil and don't see Leftovers recovery they can start to believe you have choice items, so a sudden change in the move you use surprises them. And it's of course neat to have as a buffer against status moves or to cure confusion from outrage, although it's only one-off. The other thing is that you lose a lot of offensive power if you don't get a choice item or a life orb, and you don't get leftovers recovery back.

To the thunderbolt comment, what? Salamence can't learn Thunderbolt. Dragonite gets it, Zekrom gets it, Rayquaza gets it, but I'm pretty sure Salamence doesn't.

@kyogre, by pressing the edit button you can then find a button to delete posts to get rid of those double posts

[windsong]

Lum is pretty specialized, and normally LO is the better option unless you have something very specific you're attempting to accomplish (such as with Phillip's team "Mighty Morphin Power Rangers", iirc, which utilized Lum Mence + a U-Turn Uxie lead to hold Roserade leads at 0 layers of tspikes). But yeah, unless there's a very specific goal like that in mind, LO is usually more useful.

[Eon Master]

^ It would still probably merit a mention. It keeps Mence from being Statused, and it can remove Outrage's confusion as a one-shot item. While I'll agree that LO/Leftovers are almost always superior, it's still mentionable.

[Sweep Freak]

What most people don't really realize is that Salamence can make a (reasonable) wall. It is certainly better to go with a set that maximizes offensive potential. Although his common weaknesses and weakness to stealth rock aren't very good for him, proper support can make him formidable and fool some of his counters, supposing he's OU of course. He also has Roost and Intimidate, increasing his potential, and in addition learns Wish, which can make him a powerful Offensive Wish User, like Jirachi.


This person is clearly a Troll
Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SDef
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
- Substitute
- Roost
- Thunder Fang / Dragon Tail / Toxic
- Earthquake / Iron Defense / Fire Blast
Though not a defensive behemoth, Salamence displays several attributes that could contribute to it's defensive possibilities. 95 / 80 / 80 Defenses are nothing big, but are decently reasonable, and reasonable enough to fool it's counters, like Cresselia or (if you run Fire Blast) Scizor. SubRoost takes a leaf out of Zapdos' book, which Salamence has higher HP but lower defenses. Thunder Fang let's you counter (or hope to) Ice Fang Gyarados. With Entry Hazards, Dragon Tail can actually be effective on a stall team. Toxic also performs well and will allow you to outstall Cresselia and most counters who switch in expecting Physical Salamence. Earthquake targets steel types who could give Salamence a little of a problem. Iron Defense gets him bonus defense, and with +6 he becomes difficult to OHKO on the physical spectrum, even from Choice Band Tyranitar. Fire Blast is a good alternative and destroys Scizor, Nattorei and Skarmory, who can give Salamence Trouble. In this case, Relaxed is needed to increase damage output.

For those speaking of a Mono Attacker set...


A dancing...Albatross?

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Nature: (+Atk, -SpA)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
I love the idea of doing the unexpected. RestTalk is never expected to come from a salamence, but after some testing, it is at least found effective. Dragon Dance increases Atk and Speed while sleeping, which will turn Salamence into a speedy tank. Luck is certainly needed in this, but what can you do. Dragon Claw for STAB, and a RestTalker can't afford to be confused. The EVs allow some decent HP bulk with Intimidate, and Max Attack is good, although if you wanted something more defensive, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD with a Careful Nature can be used.


If Bagon Believes, it can fly! God, this isn't Peter Pan.
Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Wish
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
Long title, amirite? Wish Salamence has never even been considered by anyone. So, slap it into a DD set and you got a pretty nice pokemon. It is no Blissey at passing HP, but it's passable. Dragon Dance for you know why, and it can be a Psuedo-Flygon with Outrage and Earthquake.


An Unstoppable force beats an immovable object, if it smashes other things into it.
Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Overconfidence
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA) OR Jolly (+Spe, +SpA)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Outrage
- Aqua Tail
This set makes a good Revenge Killer- than a sweeper. He can come in on a weakened pokemon and kill it, boosting his high attack to even higher levels. Which makes it easier to kill the next pokemon to get a boost. Hitting 9 / 17 of pokemon supereffective damage is nice too. The Moves have one set course, which is to user your scouting by another pokemon and use that to your advantage. Just pick the best move to get at all of their pokemon.

Why was Jolly ScarfGon popular when Mence was around? Because Mence ran Naive so it could outspeed more threats or at least speed tie things.

Flygon has a better Offensive Typing, Stealth Rock Resistance, STAB Earthquake and U-Turn, which makes him much better of a Revenge Killer. It has Levitate when compared to Garchomp, which let's it switch in easier, and Garchomp also does not have U-Turn.

^This is for you sceptile. I have made Salamence seem superior to Flygon.^

[assassinsceptile]

Flygon has a better Offensive Typing, Stealth Rock Resistance, STAB Earthquake and U-Turn, which makes him much better of a Revenge Killer. It has Levitate when compared to Garchomp, which let's it switch in easier, and Garchomp also does not have U-Turn.

^This is for you sceptile. I have made Salamence seem superior to Flygon.^

That was directed at another member saying Adamant DDMence is better than a speed boosting Nature'd one, but ok. ScarfMence isn't better better than ScarfGon simply because of U-Turn and the lack of an SR weakness, meaning Gon can scout a lot easier.

[Blue Harvest]

Scarf Salamence isn't bad. I actually like it better than Flygon. Same speed, better stats in every other area, better movepool, better ability, arguably better typing.

Flygon has different resistances (not better) and U-turn. It also lacks a SR weakness.


I don't know how it is in gen 5, but in early 4th gen Scarfmence had great synergy with things like offensive Heatran or Rock Polish Metagross (or any offensive steel) back around when Garchomp was OU. Besides having a ton of offensive synergy they also checked a lot of stuff. Salamence can switch in on Garchomp almost for free, laughing at any move except for Outrage and OHKOing with Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw or with Stealth Rocks down, Dragon Pulse. If you **** up prediction or miss and lose 'mence to an Outrage just send it Metagross or Heatran who will take like 20% from -1 Outrage and KO back somehow. Not just Garchomp, a lot of things would be taken out in a similar way.

Flygon didn't have the defenses or offenses to do this. Who cares about U-turning when you can just 2HKO your switch in.

[Serebii]

It's now up, Reno will make the next one shortly

http://www.serebii.net/potw-bw/373.shtml