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Thread: My First OU RMT post. Please be kind

  1. #1
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    Default My First OU RMT post. Please be kind

    Hello. This is my first go at a posting an RMT so please be kind.

    The story behind this team is rather simple. One of my friends came to me today and asked me if i could help him make his first EV trained wifi team.
    We went through all the ideas about battle style counters etc and this is what we came up with. We wanted some more oppinions from people so i decided to post it here.


    The lead. Azelf

    Azelf (Bzelf) Life orb
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs:252 spe 252 sp attk 4 sp def
    Nature: Timid/Naive
    -Thunderbolt/U-turn/explosion
    -Psycic
    -Grass knot
    -Flamethrower

    Me and my friend both decided we wanted to use an offensive lead. We wanted to be able to do as much damage as we possibly could within the first 3 to 4 turns of the match so we decided on a life orb azelf. Grass knot is for taking on swampert leads and hopefully forcing them out. Psycic is generic STAB and it also OHKOs lead machamp unlike the naive suicide azelf. Flamethrower is for the omnipresent steel types of gen 4 including lead metagross. Now we come to the bit im not quite sure about, thuderbolt i already have grass knot so do i realy need thunderbolt, u turn and explosion are both also very viable choices if i dont like the matchup. Ev's are pretty bog standard so i can outspeed as much stuff as possible and deal heavy damage, 4 sp def EV's so i can make porygon gain attack instead of special attack when facing off against me. In conclusion azelf fits into my team by dealing masses of damage very early one to help my sweepers get the KOs they are after. He also helps to keep rocks off the field due to his offensive prescence.





    The set up pokemon. Skarmory

    Skarmory (Metalica) Leftovers
    Ability: Keen eye
    EVs: 252 hp 240 sp def 16 spe
    Nature: Impish
    -Stealth rocks/Spikes
    -Brave bird
    -Whirlwind
    -Roost

    This guy is our only wall in the team so he is here to take hits, phaze bulky setup sweepers and get spikes or stealth rock down. We picked brave bird over drill peck because it allowed us to deal more damage and the recoil wont be too large considering we have no attack investment. Roost is generic recovery and softens the blow from rock electric and ice type attacks. We have a problem with this skarmory as it is. Should we pick stealth rocks over spikes, on average spikes does more damage but no pokemon is completely immune to stealth rocks bar clefable, which would benifit this team the most. Overall skarmory serves as a switch in to bulky set up sweepers and can take pretty much any attack and either phaze or set up hazards.




    The physical sweeper. Gyarados

    Gyarados (Gyakusatsu) Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 attk 252 spe 4 def
    Nature: Jolly
    -Waterfall
    -Taunt
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon dance

    We needed something physical and we wanted a bulky water so here he is (admitedly not in his bulkyest form). This guys intimidate is the reason we opted for a more specialy defencive EV spread on skarmory. We chose to use a offensive dragon dancing set because we had quite a bit of bulk in the team already and we wanted to have more physical power. Dragon dance and waterfall are obvious for any dragon dancing gyarados. We chose taunt over stone edge or bounce because we wanted to be able to stop opponents from phazing us or recovering off any damage they had taken. We chose earthquake because it has good coverage on most water types (gyarados' main switch in). This guy cant do a thing to an opposing gyarados but since we will have a DD already by the time he switches in we can taunt him to prevent any more dragon dances. Overall gyarados provides the team with a bit more bulk and intimidate to soften the blow the team takes from physical attacks. He also can sweep a team easily after it was been weakened.




    The tank. Snorlax

    Snorlax (Layzee) Choice band
    Ability: Thick fat
    EVs: 252 attk 252 sp def 4 def
    Nature: Adamant
    -Body slam
    -self destruct/pursuit
    -crunch
    -fire puch/earthquake

    snorlax hits hard, we all know that, and his special defence is great coupled with his enormous hp stat. Snorlax will usualy switch in on a special attack and take legligible damage from it, then hit the opponents switch in Very! hard. He also serves as a bit of a special sponge for our team. Body slam is generic STAB and spreading paralysis is always nice, self destruct is for completely destroying something i dont want to face (crocune is a prime example) or even just when im at low hp and want to go out with a bang, pursuit is also an option here to hit the opponent as they switch out. Crunch is there to hit the ghosts that will try to predict a body slam. Fire punch was chosen to hit the steels that i otherwise cant touch but it leaves me open to heatran. I could run earthquake but it would leave me open to skarmory then, any sudgestions would be helpful. Overall snorlax serves as a special sponge and a good way to keep the offensive momentum up, a bit of prediction is required to use him to his full potential but thats generaly what any CB set needs.





    The Revenge killer. Flygon

    Flygon (Gon fishin) Choice scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 attk 252 spe 4 sp def
    Nature: Jolly
    -U-turn
    -Earthquake
    -Stone edge
    -Outrage

    I guess you could call flygon the "glue" of this team, he is used to either revenge kill pesky pokemon like ape and dragonite (gyara to an extent). Usualy he will come in early game and get a u-turn or two off so i know what i have to deal with or get a switch advantage. Earthquake and outrage are generic STAB and give good coverage, outrage is used over dragon claw because on a choice scarfed jolly flygon is wont be doing enough damage. U-turn is used to scout an opponents flygon counters or to get switch advantage when i can force my opponent out. Stone edge is for hitting flying type pokemon and to an extent revenge killing +1 gyarados (though this is risky). Overall he makes a valuable contribution to the team by being the only pokemon who is fast enough to be a very reliable revenge killer. He is used early game as scouter and then later on to finish a weakened team.




    The special sweeper. Infernape

    Infernape (Mokey) Life orb
    Ability: Blaze
    EVs: 252 sp attk 252 spe 4 attk
    Nature: Naive
    -Nasty plot
    -Grass knot/vacum wave
    -Close combat
    -Fire blast

    Mokey is my special sweeper after azelf is dead and a pretty damn good one at that. I chose to run close combat over focus blast because i realy dont like focus blasts accuracy and it gives me the ability to maim or KO blissey depending on its EV investment. Nasty plot and fire blast are the core of this set, infernape causes many switches due to his vast movepool and great offensive stats which allows me to get up a nasty plot relatively easily. Fire blast hits almost anything hard after a nasty plot, also because of life orb recoil and possible sandstorm my health will be going down which allows me to fire off blaze boosted +2 STAB fire blasts which wreck anything. Grass knot is on the set to allow me to kill most bulky waters without too many problems. Vacum wave can be used aswell for priorety and to stop sczior spoiling my fun early and also priorety is just useful on a team. In conclusion this ape can rip through the opponents team after the apropriate pokemon have been removed or weakened, he dosn't realy provide any support to the team because he is so frail but he dishes out the damage realy well.



    This was the team me and my friend came up with. As i stated at the start this is the first time ive ever posted an RMT on any forum. Any and all constructive criticism is welcome.

    Fake....................
    Last edited by 123fakestreet; 25th January 2011 at 1:12 AM.







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  2. #2
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    Overall, pretty good. Azelf should have u-turn for if you have bad match-up instead of thunderbolt, Also, on skarmory as a wall, drill peck is better than brave bird, and pursuit on snorlax is good if you switch in to a ghost special sweeper and fire punch is good for steels like skarmory. And vacum wave is good for speedy pokemon but grass knot is good for swampert and any other water or ground types. Overall, pretty good team.
    in the making...

  3. #3
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    to me it looks like a good setup with not alot of mistakes
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  4. #4
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    Not bad...

    Poke-by-poke:

    Lead Azelf without SR, Taunt, etc? Egad! Quite a non-conformist, aren't you? :P. Looks like a nice set that can outspeed quite a few leads and strike them down before they can do very much to hurt you. As what's-his-face said, U-turn helps a lot, you'll probably want to work it in there somehow. EVs are pretty standard for an offensive Orb lead.

    I think you meant to call Skarm Metallica. Two Ls in it. Probably my largest complaint about this thing, haha (unless you did it on purpose, but it doesn't matter anyway). Brave Bird should prolly be dropped for Drill Peck, you don't really want a wall to be taking recoil like that, even if it's small. Run rocks.

    Not much to say about Gyarados. It runs a DD set similar to most others used by the Leviathan. Taunt is usually found on bulkier sets, but it could be useful if you see a wisper or even a charmer.

    Fat ol' Lax should run Pursuit over Self-Destruct. It will likely scare out plenty of pokemon with its large attack and Choice Band, and Self-Destruct is kinda risky. You'd normally use it when you're low on health and want to go out with a bang, but since Lax is so slow, you might get KOd before you can use it.

    So happy you put Flygon on here, it's awesome. I hate how GameFreak has continually made better and better dragons to outclass it. The Pokémon Company really doesn't like Flygon, but At least Mence and Chomp are Über now. Anyway, on to the actual critique. I'm a big fan of speedy hard-hitting revenge killers, and this set is no exception. He hits most pokémon super effectively, and every pokémon at least neutrally, so he's good at taking down sweepers as long as they haven't used any speed-boosting moves.

    Last but not least, we have Ape. One of the three Fire/Fighting type starters that were introduced. IN A ROW. 3 out of 5, that's 60% >. At least Blaziken was made better than the others in the 5th gen when it was granted Speed Boost from the Dream World :P. *Anywayyy*, you should run Flamethrower, Fire Blast is inaccurate and you will likely get hurt very very badly if you miss. Vacuum Wave helps against enemy priority users and scarf Heatran and Ttar who could murder you, but Scizor would only take 51.3% to 60.6% damage from a +2 Vacuum Wave (you mentioned that Vacuum Wave would be good at taking it down, but it could only OHKO it after two Nasty Plots. Band Scizor would probably OHKO you with Superpower after the first one, so it would be wiser to counter Scizor with Flamethrower as his Bullet Punch/Quick Attack isn't going to do that much to you. Bullet Punch would take 3 hits and Quick Attack would take 2 to 3).

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  5. #5
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    This is a pretty decent team, I will admit. But it does most definitely have flaws. One of which is once Snorlax is gone, your entire team is swept by Starmie. Your Gyrados should run Adamant nature for more power, and even with that, 252 Speed EV's is a bit much. Your team is also weak to Stall teams, once Gyrados is gone that is. As for Infernape, it shouldnt have Close Combat, because even though its a 120 STAB move, it has 0 EV's and a neutral nature and the Defense drop is not worth it. You also lack an offensive core. Your team is just a bunch of sweepers bar Skarmory, and that isnt good, they need to compliment each other, just picking pokemon based on "is it a good sweeper" system isnt good. Your Skarmory is easily killed by Magnezone since it lacks Shed Shell. Sorry if I'm being harsh, its very good for a first post, you just need some more practice.


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    Default Ok........thanks

    Thanks for that rather blunt answer but I do agree with you. I don't know about you but how many zones have u seen this year? I have seen any so I assumed it safe to use lefties. This team wasn't really just "thrown together" but it needs work since I did spend a while trying to help my friend make this team. It is for him afterall. I can't quite remember why I ran jolly gyara, I'll change that I think but taunt stays. And so do the speed evs because I didn't want him to be bulky gyara. As a offensive it's hard to wall a lot of stuff. As for starmie I can chip away at it and most likely get a speedy ko with laces pursuit. Flygon helps here aswell.

    And just to clarify something. This is my first rmt yes but i have been battling maybe a year now so I'm not new to 4th gen battling @ everyone.

    EDIT: yeah I'll run some calcs comparing fb to ft and post results later.
    Last edited by 123fakestreet; 25th January 2011 at 2:34 AM.







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  7. #7
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    To me it looks like an overall good setup for a team. I'm not the best for moves, but I would like to warn you about types to watch out for.
    For Gyarados, all electric attacks will have a 400% increase. And for Flygon, the ice attacks will have 400% increase. Other than that though, it's good.
    Hope it helps. Your friend should be proud of a team like this.
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    Magnezone is a popular pokemon, don't doubt its appearance in the OU. And Timid Jolteon will dispose of Gyarados quite quickly, the Speed EV's are somewhat pointless as is the Jolly nature since your losing a lot of power. And when Gyarados is gone your team will be stalled easily. Even with Gyarados, Azelf can Taunt it, Trick it, set up on it, Skarmory can phase it, any pokemon packing an Electric type move will instantly KO it... Gyarados isn't really that good. I would recommend replacing it with Starmie. And I've been in competitive battling the last 3 years (I attended the VGC since 08)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Arty-Kun View Post
    Magnezone is a popular pokemon, don't doubt its appearance in the OU. And Timid Jolteon will dispose of Gyarados quite quickly, the Speed EV's are somewhat pointless as is the Jolly nature since your losing a lot of power. And when Gyarados is gone your team will be stalled easily. Even with Gyarados, Azelf can Taunt it, Trick it, set up on it, Skarmory can phase it, any pokemon packing an Electric type move will instantly KO it... Gyarados isn't really that good. I would recommend replacing it with Starmie. And I've been in competitive battling the last 3 years (I attended the VGC since 08)
    Actually Jolly Gyarados outruns Timid Jolteon while Adamant does not so the nature isn't "pointless". You don't need max speed to outrun Jolteon but you do need at least 220 Speed EVs to outrun Scarf Heatran. At which point its reasonable to simply max speed, since this will outrun some Agility Metagross and +2 Empoleon.

    I'm surprised you call Gyarados bad when its actually good at everything. It has fantastic offenses, near perfect coverage and GREAT defenses. You say anything with an electric move beats Gyarados, but anything without an electric move is pushed aside. A lot of Gyarados's counters are Pursuit weak (Scarf Rotom, Starmie), 2HKOed and Spikes weak (Vaporeon, most Suicune, Celebi) or can be flinched to death (Skarmory, defensive rotom). More than any other Pokemon Gyarados can come out of nowhere and butcher a weakened team.


    Wow I didn't help this team at all..

    hmm.. try Fire Blast on Azelf as it OHKOs Metagross leads while Flamethrower will not. Also test 252 attack / 176 Defense / 80 Special Defense on Snorlax. This will allow you to survive a +1 Gyarados Waterfall all the time after Stealth Rocks while you still retain the ability to take on Starmie. Thunder Punch over Stone Edge on Flygon. T punch hits bulky waters, Skarmory and Gyarados hard. Stone Edge pretty much only hits Zapdos and Dragonite harder, both of whom are hit by Outrage.


    Edit: err... Infernape can use Close Combat to OHKO Blissey after Stealth Rocks but Focus Blast also OHKOs Bliss after Nasty Plot. Focus Blast OHKOs Vaporeon and Swampert as well but its extremely unreliable with its accuracy. Close Combat can be used to great effect against Blissey before a Nasty Plot. Its up to you

    Leftovers vs Shed Shell is also another good question. Roughly 7% of teams run a Magnezone. 93% of the time Leftovers is the better choice yet 7% of the time Maggy will probably kill Skarm after he gets a layer or two of Spikes. If you run Specially Defensive Skarmory you are guaranteed to survive a Thunderbolt from Magnezone.

  10. #10
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    Everything else isn't pushed aside by Gyarados. Yeah I'm against Gyarados being in the OU category. On your average Taunt and DD set, Gyrados has a choice of 2 attacking moves, the STAB will probably be Waterfall, but wait, that means Gyarados is walled by bulky DDnite, Water types, etc... So you choose Ice Fang to deal with Gliscor and Dragons, your walled by Water types, you choose EQ for neutral coverage. You now are walled by DDnite again, its a trade. And your gonna love the list of counters.

    Magnezone, Pikachu, Zapdos, Manetric, ANY POKEMON WITH ANY ELECTRIC MOVE, Skarmory, Porygon2/Trace users, Water types with HP Electric, Metagross (assuming there is no EQ it can Thunderpunch), Tangrowth, Defensive Celebi, the list goes on... I think its ok, but it has terrible typing for a physical and defensive pokemon and belongs in the UU. I used to use a Gyarados but the things that counter it are so immense I figured it wasnt worth it.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arty-Kun View Post
    Everything else isn't pushed aside by Gyarados. Yeah I'm against Gyarados being in the OU category. On your average Taunt and DD set, Gyrados has a choice of 2 attacking moves, the STAB will probably be Waterfall, but wait, that means Gyarados is walled by bulky DDnite, Water types, etc...
    Not all Gyarados are bulky Taunt. DD with three attacks is capable of OHKOing every one of your "counters" barring Celebi and Tangrowth.

    So you choose Ice Fang to deal with Gliscor and Dragons, your walled by Water types, you choose EQ for neutral coverage. You now are walled by DDnite again, its a trade. And your gonna love the list of counters.
    Three problems with that.

    1) Your opponent won't know what moves you run.
    2) Stone Edge OHKOs the vast majority of bulky water resists.
    3) Gliscor is already KOed by Waterfall.

    Magnezone,
    +1 Waterfall does 86.5% - 101.8%. Earthquake OHKOs.

    Pikachu,
    lol, Pikachu is OHKOed by any move even before a Dragon Dance. Pika can't stop Gyarados.

    Zapdos,
    +1 Stone Edge does 94% minimum.

    Manetric,
    OHKOed by +1 Waterfall

    ANY POKEMON WITH ANY ELECTRIC MOVE,
    Generally speaking they are OHKOed if using the electric move for coverage, unless they're running extreme bulk and HP electric specifically for Gyarados.

    Skarmory,
    2HKOed by +1 Waterfall. If Skarmory is flinched, its dead. If Skarmory is Taunted, your whole team is dead.

    Porygon2
    Ok, you got me here. Porygon 2 isn't common though.

    /Trace users
    ,

    That means Gardevoir. Max HP Gardevoir can be OHKOed by Waterfall after Stealth Rocks EVEN AFTER INTIMIDATE.

    Water types with HP Electric,
    Vaporeon is 2HKOed and can't OHKO back (even with Stealth Rocks). Suicune works however.

    Metagross (assuming there is no EQ it can Thunderpunch),
    OHKOed by Earthquake. Even with Waterfall Metagross will be hanging on with 30% its HP so its anything but a safe counter.

    Tangrowth,
    No one uses Tangrowth in OU.

    Defensive Celebi,
    2HKOed by Ice Fang, OHKOed by +1 Bounce and it can not OHKO (usually can't even 2HKO)

    the list goes on... I think its ok, but it has terrible typing for a physical and defensive pokemon and belongs in the UU. I used to use a Gyarados but the things that counter it are so immense I figured it wasnt worth it.

    We probably shouldn't spam this thread up any more.

  12. #12
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    Waterfall can flinch ddnite to death^^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beastiken9 View Post
    Waterfall can flinch ddnite to death^^^
    It can't lol, Dragonite is immune to flinches.

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    Wow, this is a surprisingly good team because unlike the teams I see around here, its actually rateable! The first problem I notice is that you are weak to SD Lucario quite a bit. In late game it sets up on Flygon or forces Snorlax out and sweeps your entire team. Since you aren't running any defensive EVs on your Gyarados, it will take some serious damage if it is weakened. Everything else on this team is quite easily OHKOed by boosted moves meaning that Lucario can pull off a sweep quite easily. I really don't like how stall weak this team seems to be. Although you do have Infernape to pick off pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress, any decently built stall team will have various pokemon that can take down Infernape easily. I really think this would be quite easy to fix with a few changes in move sets. First of all I recommend that you run Taunt Skarmory over your current one. This will allow you to not only lay up spikes and phaze the opponent efficiently, but it allows you to get up hazards before stall teams do. I would run Taunt | Spikes | Whirlwind | Roost on Skarmory with 252 HP | 92 Spe | 164 SpD and an Impish Nature like you have now. You may notice that your stealth rocks user has been taken away. I would simply run Stealth Rocks on your Azelf to solve this problem as 2 hazards on Skarmory is usually a bit much anyways. Secondly, I want to recommend a pokemon that will help you support Infernape in a late game sweep and also check pokemon such as Lucario. I really believe that a Choice Scarf Tyranitar will fit this role perfectly as it allows you to take out pokemon such as Starmie, Gengar, and other troublesome fast special attackers that can check Infernape. Also, Infernape has the ability to remove counters such as Gliscor for Tyranitar to break down the opposing team. I really think this would fit over your Snorlax as Tyranitar also allows you to check Heatran and Starmie as well.

    Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe Sandstream
    Stone Edge | Crunch | Pursuit | Superpower

    Next, I would like for you to try out a new Infernape set. Although Nasty Plot Infernape is good for overall sweeping and breaking down teams, I really think it is somewhat outdated in this metagame. In my opinion, a Physically Based Mixape would work great over your current one. This will allow you to not only check Lucario even more easily, but Physically Based Mixape cleans up in a late game situation so much easier than Nasty Plot Infernape. It also has the ability to lure in and 2HKO Vaporeon with hazards down, meaning that not much can really stop it from sweeping teams unless they play very carefully around it.

    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Naive 252 Atk | 64 SpA | 192 Spe Blaze
    Close Combat | U-turn | Mach Punch | Overheat

    Next, I want to suggest an EV spread change on your Gyarados. Although Jolly with 252 Spe outruns Jolteon, I really don't think that it troubles your team enough to warrant you running that spread. I would recommend that you just shift to the standard 156 HP / 72 Atk / 96 Def / 184 Spe with an Adamant nature and Bounce or Stone Edge > Earthquake. Taunt Gyarados + Scarf Tar cover stall teams very well as Scarf Tar can easily pursuit away common spin blockers like Rotom-A and then Gyarados and cause chaos on the opposing team by taunting their pokemon and getting up free dragon dances. Not only that, but this Gyarados will cover Lucario much better as its defenses are much greater than the spread you are currently running.

    Finally, I would suggest that you get a pokemon who can check sweepers such as Bullet Punch Lucario and Gyarados very reliably. Also, if you are running spikes, I really think that you should run a decent spin blocker to defend them as well. This is why I would like you to try a Choice Scarf Rotom-W over your Flygon. Not only will Rotom allow you to beat sweepers such as Bullet Punch Lucario very reliably, but it will be able to take down aforementioned spinners who can annoy offensive teams that like hazards in late game such as this. Also, Rotom provides you with another fighting resist, which is always welcome on any team.

    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf
    Timid 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe Levitate
    Thunderbolt | Shadow Ball | Hydro Pump | Trick

    Alright that is all I have to say for now. This team is quite good, and I wish you good luck with it!
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    Thanks, ill see what i can do with the recourses available. The team is also for my friend not me and i kinda made it with my team in mind.







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