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Thread: Community POTW #4

  1. #26
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    The only thing Ice Punch does is handle Gliscor / Dragonite. Dynamic Punch and Payback together handle just about everything else.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimmahX View Post
    In theory, you have a good set here. But the problem is, Burn reduces the Attack stat, so it would be better with a Toxic Orb.
    Because machamp has guts, burn will not reduce it's attack stat. Burn with Guts it will still boost machamp's attack stat just like what other status would have done due to its ability. Since Burn damage won't increase from Flame Ord compared to Toxic Orb's poison damage, burn orb is still a better choice.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trick Room Octillery View Post
    You are right about Ice Punch, but Guts ignores burn's Attack reduction.
    Also, Toxin orb will give you badly poison(I tested ingame). It's not good for long run.
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  4. #29
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    dynamic punch
    stone edge
    substitute
    payback

    ability:no guard
    item:focus sash

    evs and nature to defence and special defence

    dynamicpunch is best stab combined with no guard is just plain great. payback takes out psycics and combined plus dark/fighting covers all types for at least neutral damage.stone edge takes out every flyer for neutral.and substitute just to take some hits

  5. #30
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    Handy Double/Triple battle partner treats:

    * Any pokemon running low accuracy moves partners well with No Guard Machamp

    * Fast pokemons who can take out Psychic- and Flying type pokemon effectively

  6. #31
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    Well every possible set is already send here, but I guess this one isn't that bad:


    Machamp@life orb/leftovers
    adamant/JOLLY
    IV's: all 31
    EV's: 252 attack, 252 speed
    Attacks:
    Dynamic punch
    Stone edge
    Anckle sweep/rock tomb
    EQ

    The meaning of this set is to cut down the opponents speed so a fast sweeper can't outspeed machamp anymore. It actually is prety much the same as the substitute set, you win a free attack when the opponent switches.
    The pros for this set are that you don't loose 25% of your HP every time and that you aren't weak against taunt and encore... It also is better when your opponent doesn't switch when send this pokémon. The last possitive thing it that you already damaged your opponent, in contrary with substitute.
    The con's are that you have to invest in speed EV's, so you loose your bulkyness a bit. You also have a chance that ankle sweep is unaffected (if switched into a ghost pokemon) or that rock tomb misses. It also isn't shure that you still outspeed your opponent. The last downside is that payback is unusable because you become faster then the opponent
    So to summarise, this set is a little less good the the substitute variant, but it allows you to give your team a little more of a supprising effect.





  7. #32
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    Here's one that turns Mechamp's poor speed into an asset. It needs to partner up with a Poke that knows Trick Room, though.

    Slow and Steady Wins the Race: Trick Room Sweeper Machamp.
    Machamp @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
    No Guard, Brave/Sassy/Relaxed
    252 HP/252 Def./4 Sp.Def
    (IVs: 0 Speed)
    -Dynamic Punch
    -Stone Edge
    -Thunder Punch/Ice Punch/Fire Punch
    -Bullet Punch

    It's basically a No Guard Sweeper with some modifications on the nature and a slightly bulkier build. Dynamic punch has STAB, Stone-Edge and the elemental punches provide coverage, and Bullet Punch is TR-Machamp's back-up priority move. You can run the Attack-boosting Brave Machamp, but you can also run bulkier by using a Sassy or Relaxed Machamp. As always, use a speed-reducing nature (and zero speed IVs) for a sweeper on a Trick Room team.

    This Machamp MUST be partnered up with a Pokemon that can set up Trick Room, such as Slowbro or Bronzong. If you don't plan on using Trick Room, then don't bother with this set.

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  8. #33
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    Machamp is outclassed not only by Roopushin but also by pre-evo stone Machoke, who has better defenses. Machoke's better defenses mean it can be a better RestTalker. Here is what I mean:

    Machoke@Pre-evolution stone
    No Guard Ability
    Adamant/Brave Nature
    EVs: 252hp 252atk 4sdef/def/spe
    Dynamicpunch
    Payback/Stone Edge/Ice Punch
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    You abuse Dynamicpunch to shuffle the opponent's team and use rest to heal yourself. Machoke is better b/c of the pre-evo stone.
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  9. #34
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    Status Absorber
    Guts/Leftovers
    Brave
    252 HP/252 Attack
    Cross Chop/Brick Break
    Payback
    Facade
    Sleep Talk

    Basically, if your team is weak to status, this is the way to go. Cross chop and Brick break are for stab. Cross chop is the primary option for it's power, but Brick Break has accuracy on it's side and destroys light screen and reflect. Payback is well...Payback. Great coverage and stacks on low speed...You get the point. Facade gets 140 power when it has a status condition, and sleep talk allows it to, well, attack in it's sleep.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarSlizer View Post
    Machamp is outclassed not only by Roopushin but also by pre-evo stone Machoke, who has better defenses. Machoke's better defenses mean it can be a better RestTalker. Here is what I mean:

    Machoke@Pre-evolution stone
    No Guard Ability
    Adamant/Brave Nature
    EVs: 252hp 252atk 4sdef/def/spe
    Dynamicpunch
    Payback/Stone Edge/Ice Punch
    Rest
    Sleep Talk
    You abuse Dynamicpunch to shuffle the opponent's team and use rest to heal yourself. Machoke is better b/c of the pre-evo stone.
    Hmm, even if Machoke is slow, why would you want a Brave nature unless you were partnering up with a Trick-Roomer (or maybe running Payback?)? Even Tanks like to go first when they can get the chance.

    Maybe instead of devoting a whole set to a Trick-Room sweeper build, you can put this note in the 'Other Options' category instead:
    ----------------
    Other Options:
    Brave/Sassy/Relaxed natures. Speed-reduction natures are good to consider if you are using Machamp in a Trick Room team, as Machamp's speed is already nothing to write home about. Putting Machamp in Trick Room can turn its poor speed into an asset. Keep in mind that when tailoring Machamp to Trick Room use you should have no Speed EVs and have a 0 IV in Speed for best results. Bullet Punch as a prioity move on a TR team Machoke is also a good idea in case Trick Room is not in play.
    ----------------
    (And in case anyone was wondering, Machamp and Machoke don't learn TR. They need to partner up with Bronzong or Slowbrow for that.
    I'm being Captain Obvious here, yes, but I'd rather not confuse anyone.)

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  11. #36
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    SUPER POWERED FLING

    Cross chop
    Fling/payback
    Superpower/Close Combat
    Thunderpunch
    Item: Iron Ball
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SAtk)

    This is a great way to go for Machamp. Fling/payback and Thunderpunch take out all of Machamp's weaknesses. Iron ball is nessisary for fling to work. Payback will also work because Machamp is so slow. Cross chop is a great STAB move. Superpower and Close Combat are also great STAB moves, but picking one all depends on what you want to give up, atk/def or def/Sdef.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    The only thing Ice Punch does is handle Gliscor / Dragonite. Dynamic Punch and Payback together handle just about everything else.
    Hitting Gliscor is a big sell though. That thing is everywhere.


    So I have some comments again.

    Obviously, Machamp has a lot more competition this gen. Specifically with Conkeldurr/Roopushin, as a bulky, physically inlined pure Fighting-type. My suggestion would be to always run No Guard; if you want to run Guts (lol Steadfast) then you'd most likely be better off using Conkeldurr instead, who has more Attack, Mach Punch, and Drain Punch to heal.

    Also, Fighting and Dark gets great coverage, and so Payback is always a firm choice, as Blue Harvest said. The only other attacking moves you should really be running are Ice Punch, as mentioned above ( having something to deal with Gliscor is very important) and maybe Stone Edge, if your team needs a Rock type attack or something. Using things like Fire Punch or Thunder Punch isn't great as most things hit super effective by those moves will be hit just as hard as Dynamicpunch. Exceptions being Bug/Steels and Water/Flyings (Gyara) however the bugs won't like eating D-Punch very much and Gyara has to deal with Stealth Rock and won't like confusion.

    Bullet Punch is also viable, as Priority is always good, though Steel is a bad attacking type and it doesn't get the STAB or Technician boost that Scizor gets that make it good.

    Finally, EV investment generally goes into Attack and HP for maximum bulk, though if you're running a Scarf or some kind of sweeper set, then they would go into speed I guess.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by streetlightdsb; 27th January 2011 at 2:05 PM.
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  13. #38
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    DynamicPunch
    Cross Chop
    Stone Edge
    Payback
    Ability: No Guard

    Dynamic Punch is there to confuse the opponent, and, with No Guard, has perfect accuracy. Cross Chop would be the main attacking move with the high critical hit ratio. Stone Edge is there for the annoying flying secondary types and also fire and ice types. And finally Payback is there for the Psychics that would sweep you and the ghosts that would wall you.

  14. #39

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    Do you post counters for the POTW here aswell, I love counter, especially thinking up ones that no-one would expect.
    I find that a nice counter for no-guard machamp is ninetails. WAIT, don't turn up your nose just yet, let me finish. Firstly, machamp is unlikely to turn and run from a ninetails as it might from a conventional counter such as crobat, and it is sooo annoying when you have a perfect counter for a pokemon, but then it switches out and your counter dies before they send it out again. So, with ninetails out you can easily outspeed the dynamicpunch or stone edge coming your way and hit it with a 100% accurate hypnosis. Then you can completely mash the machamp with an 100% accurate purgatory with stab and usually sunny day assistance. Another great thing about this counter is that with a wide lens on the ninetails it can fit well into loads of teams.
    OK, maybe that turned into more of a ninetails POTW but oh well, it's a nice counter, try it out!

  15. #40

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    Chandelure/Shandera is probably one of the best partners for Machamp in the game. Besides covering each other's weaknesses, a no guard Dynamicpunch followed by Evil Eye kills just about everything. Bronzong is good for setting up a Trick Room sweep and is a good wall in general.

  16. #41

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    I feel the need to point out that Machamp is only outclassed by Conkeldurr as a Guts user, since Conk has recovery in Drain Punch, Mach Punch for priority, more power, and greater physical bulk. Machamp still has its own niche with No Guard DPunch's. Also, Machoke hardly has anything over Machamp. It's a little bit bulkier, but that 30 base point drop in attack really hurts, as well as the lower speed. Machoke fails to outspeed Blissey without ample speed investment, and even max attack Adamant Machoke only does 75.91% - 89.36% to 252/252 Blissey, only a 7.69% chance for a OHKO. That's gives Blissey enough time to poison you, set up Wish, whatever. On top of that, if you're running enough EVs for power and speed to beat Blissey, then you're missing out on having the bulk that sets Evo Stone Choke apart.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimmahX View Post
    In theory, you have a good set here. But the problem is, Burn reduces the Attack stat, so it would be better with a Toxic Orb. For EVs and Nature, use Adamant with 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def/SpDef. Also, Ice Punch offers more vital coverage than ThunderPunch, since it takes down Dragons, Bulky Grounds and Grass Types that would otherwise handle Machamp. Thunderpunch just covers Flying and Water, and Stone Edge already handles Flying.
    with guts the burn lowering attack is negated

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by supersx5 View Post
    with guts the burn lowering attack is negated
    Already been covered, like 4 times.

    I decided to add a few more partners, since we can't have enough. It's rather vague for the most part. But I think I touched most areas in my first post.

    - Anything with Hypnosis. Ninetails is very noteworthy since it has Hypnosis and Purgatory.
    - Anything with Sleep Powder. Tangrowth also gets a handy boost for Power Whip and Leaf Storm, and has more firepower than most/all other Sleep Powder users.
    - Anything with Toxic/Will-O-Wisp support to trigger Guts.

    Though this isn't really Machamp's selling point, it can support other using Wide Guard. It also has Power Trick if you want to try tanking options, and it's newfound Attack isn't even that horrible and a few people have stated that bulky builds work well so maybe this will see some results. Not likely though.
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  19. #44

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    Anything with Hypnosis. Ninetails is very noteworthy since it has Hypnosis and Purgatory.
    I mentioned ninetails as a counter on the last page

  20. #45
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    Ninetales is OHKOed by Dynamic Punch after Stealth Rocks, its not a counter. Not to mention Machamp commonly carries Lum Berry, so you're better off just OHKOing it with LO Drought Overheat.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Ninetales is OHKOed by Dynamic Punch after Stealth Rocks, its not a counter. Not to mention Machamp commonly carries Lum Berry, so you're better off just OHKOing it with LO Drought Overheat.
    It works on Life Orb and Choice Band sets, Lum Berries aren't used on Guts sets so it works against those Machamps, provided it doesn't have sleep talk. And the Overheat thing works regardless of the situation, now that Ninetails will be gaining huge popularity in the competitive scene.

    And yes Ψosiden, I restated the Ninetails thing because you brought up a valid point that I thought was worth reinforcing.

    *Edit* If Hypnosis goes against No Guard without Lum Berry, the Dynamic Punch + Stealth Rock factor will be gone unless Trick Room is in effect, Ninetails is way faster than Machamp.
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  22. #47
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    A 'counter' can switch in to something and reliably force it out or KO it (preferably while taking minimal damage in the process or being able to heal off damage).

    Slowbro is a Machamp 'counter'- it takes puny damage from anything Machamp can do, even the rare Thunderpunch, it can heal off the damage with Slack Off and Regeneration, and KO with STAB Psychic.

    Ninetales is not a Machamp counter if it's OHKOed by Dynamicpunch after Stealth Rock damage. Even if Ninetales survives (because you span rocks away), you only have a 50% chance of getting the Hypnosis in before the second Dynamicpunch easily KOs you, and that's reliant on Machamp not running Lum Berry.

    So, let's get these figures straight. Ninetales counters Machamp if:

    Ninetales has taken very little prior damage
    No Stealth Rocks are up (or 3 layers of Spikes, but SR is more common)
    Machamp does not have a Lum Berry or a Choice Scarf- keep in mind that nine out of the top ten most commonly used Machamp sets according to PO's stats use Lum Berry, and the other one uses Substitute
    Ninetales doesn't hit itself in confusion when trying to Hypnosis Machamp

    So the absolute best case scenario, if all the above is fulfilled, is that you've put his Machamp to sleep and had your incredibly important weather inducer reduced to below 75% and confused. That's not a good thing.
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  23. #48

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    Machamp@Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    Adamant Nature (+Atk - Satk)
    252 HP / 252 Special Defence / 4 Defence
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    -Low Kick
    -Payback

    Or if you have a Ghost trapper use Bulk up over Payback, but Heracross is better at bulking up. I suppose you'll want to pair this up with Steels type-wise. Sub / Calm Mind or Wish / Calm Mind Jirachi might work okay as a partner to this.

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekul the Sarcastic View Post
    A 'counter' can switch in to something and reliably force it out or KO it (preferably while taking minimal damage in the process or being able to heal off damage).

    Slowbro is a Machamp 'counter'- it takes puny damage from anything Machamp can do, even the rare Thunderpunch, it can heal off the damage with Slack Off and Regeneration, and KO with STAB Psychic.

    Ninetales is not a Machamp counter if it's OHKOed by Dynamicpunch after Stealth Rock damage. Even if Ninetales survives (because you span rocks away), you only have a 50% chance of getting the Hypnosis in before the second Dynamicpunch easily KOs you, and that's reliant on Machamp not running Lum Berry.

    So, let's get these figures straight. Ninetales counters Machamp if:

    Ninetales has taken very little prior damage
    No Stealth Rocks are up (or 3 layers of Spikes, but SR is more common)
    Machamp does not have a Lum Berry or a Choice Scarf- keep in mind that nine out of the top ten most commonly used Machamp sets according to PO's stats use Lum Berry, and the other one uses Substitute
    Ninetales doesn't hit itself in confusion when trying to Hypnosis Machamp

    So the absolute best case scenario, if all the above is fulfilled, is that you've put his Machamp to sleep and had your incredibly important weather inducer reduced to below 75% and confused. That's not a good thing.
    OK, I probably didn't think it through properly, I'm new to competitive battling. Also, ninetails is more of a revenge killer than a counter, I misworded it Sorry

  25. #50

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    Set:Choice Band
    Machamp@Choice Band
    Nature:Adamant
    Ability:Guts
    252HP/252Atk/4Spe
    -Close Combat
    -Thunder Punch/Bullet Punch
    -Ice Punch
    -Payback

    Set:Sleep Talker
    Machamp@Leftovers
    Nature:Adamant
    Ability:No Guard
    252HP/252Atk/6Spe
    -Rest
    -Sleep Talk
    -Stone Edge/Payback/Ice Punch
    -Dynamic Punch

    Set:Substitute
    Machamp@Leftovers
    Nature:Adamant
    Ability:No Guard
    252HP/252Atk/6Spe
    -Substitute
    -Payback
    -Dynamic Punch
    -Stone Edge

    Other sets like Choice Scarf are somewhat viable, but I don't think they deserve a mention.
    Last edited by Gamefreak; 26th January 2011 at 5:40 PM.


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