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Thread: Does Ash really deserve to win a league?

  1. #1
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    Question Does Ash really deserve to win a league?

    I'M BACK! (because everyone was worried about my absence #sarcasm )
    Now, let´s get serious.
    As the title says, Ash really deserve win a league? In my opinion: NO! HE NEVER DESERVED TO WIN A LEAGUE, AND NEVER WILL DESERVE!

    Why? Simple:
    1 - His victory will be obfuscated by his defeats.
    "Orange League DOSEN'T COUNT!" - The Pokémon fanbase about Ash's victory.
    2 - Ash is a hero! He prevented Arceus from destroying the world (Movie 13) and defeted many criminals (you know: Team Plasma, Team Galactic etc). Pokémon Leagues are a waste of time.
    3 - He won some "filler" competitions, but NOBODY remenbers that!
    "I don't care if Ash won the High School Cup, the Battle Frontier or whatever, if he lose the league I will stop watching Pokémon!" - The pokémon fanbase.
    4 - And the most important: his won will never have some importance to the plot. On the Pokémon anime, every season is like a rebbot of a previous one (Pokémon XY is for the series the same Yu-Gi-Oh! GX is to Yu-Gi-Oh!, or Digimon Fusion is for the other Digimon seasons). NOBODY IN THE ANIME WILL REMEMBER IF HE WIN!

    And you, what you think?
    IT: IT's better than flying!

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    What if he wins a medal like the ending of the XY games?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luigiman98 View Post
    What if he wins a medal like the ending of the XY games?
    This would be great.
    IT: IT's better than flying!

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    Is this like a troll? You can't be serious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Wind View Post
    Is this like a troll? You can't be serious.
    What? If it's about the "I'M BACK" thing, I was just joking.
    If it's about Ash, then it's serious.
    IT: IT's better than flying!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Wind View Post
    Is this like a troll? You can't be serious.
    I repeat, there could be a better way for Ash to win in this one, like getting the medal like in the ending of the XY game, that's better than winning a freaking trophy.

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    Well if there was a league that Ash deserved to win it was this one or Sinnoh. Ash should have won Sinnoh if it wasn't for Trollbias, and he should have won this one if it wasn't for Alain and his Hax-level ZardX. Basically Ash has what it takes to win, but the writers are refusing to give it to him for whatever reason (Sinnoh made sense in order to keep Ash traveling in Unova, but this one is questionable since there is no official league in Alola, so winning this league would make sense.)
    ~ Limits are meant to be broken ~

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrLazyEyes View Post
    Well if there was a league that Ash deserved to win it was this one or Sinnoh. Ash should have won Sinnoh if it wasn't for Trollbias, and he should have won this one if it wasn't for Alain and his Hax-level ZardX. Basically Ash has what it takes to win, but the writers are refusing to give it to him for whatever reason (Sinnoh made sense in order to keep Ash traveling in Unova, but this one is questionable since there is no official league in Alola, so winning this league would make sense.)
    Well, maybe the writers have a secret surprise in mind that might change the whole definition of status quo repetition.

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    Ash totally deserved to win this one. Maybe Sinnoh too, but definitely the Kalos league.

    If it weren't for Tobias or Alain, Ash would have won two championships already. He is irrefutably the second strongest trainer in both those region's tournaments when he participated in the tournament.
    メガシンカ

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    Ash deserved to win a league in arguably AG and definitely in DP,he had enough skill and a fair amount of strong pokemon to do it.
    Last edited by PokemonBattleFanatic-; 19th August 2016 at 10:05 PM.





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    Well I disagree with a point of yours about Ash's past accomplishments. In AG, Max commented on witnessing Ash battle in the Johto league. In Sinnoh Ash's victory over Brandden is acknowledged and actually used as a plot device to make Paul begin to develop respect for Ash's skill as a trainer. I also disagree about Ash being reset. The only time Ash was truly reset was in BW, but there is a clear progression of Ash's skill and maturity from OS-DP with XY feeling more like it was a follow up from DP rather than BW atleast when it comes to Ash's character. Pikachu; however is a whole separate issue that I won't go into for this thread. Am I upset that Ash lost the league, YES!!, but I won't stop watching, since atleast this time Ash progressed further than ever before. As long as they keep Ash's skill and maturity from XY intact, I won't have any problem. Ash was conference champion material by Sinnoh, since he was the strongest tariner in that league barring the walking Action Replay (since the guy in the finals couldn't even takedown Darkrai, whereas Ash KOed Darkrai and Latios).

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    This doesn't seem like you want a discussion. It's more like you want people validating your opinion.
    from pokemongifs

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    I think having him winning would draw attention to the whole franchise which would be an advantage considering that sun and moon are around the corner
    and yes, he deserves it, hes proven himself this season. Hes a real strategic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viex View Post
    This doesn't seem like you want a discussion. It's more like you want people validating your opinion.
    No...
    I just explained why I think that Ash don't deserve to win the league. nobody needs to agree with my arguments.
    IT: IT's better than flying!

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    He deserves to win a league imo, but I don't see it happening anytime soon
    Credit goes to PikaWaltz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vini310 View Post
    I'M BACK! (because everyone was worried about my absence #sarcasm )
    Now, let´s get serious.
    As the title says, Ash really deserve win a league? In my opinion: NO! HE NEVER DESERVED TO WIN A LEAGUE, AND NEVER WILL DESERVE!

    Why? Simple:
    1 - His victory will be obfuscated by his defeats.
    "Orange League DOSEN'T COUNT!" - The Pokémon fanbase about Ash's victory.
    2 - Ash is a hero! He prevented Arceus from destroying the world (Movie 13) and defeted many criminals (you know: Team Plasma, Team Galactic etc). Pokémon Leagues are a waste of time.
    3 - He won some "filler" competitions, but NOBODY remenbers that!
    "I don't care if Ash won the High School Cup, the Battle Frontier or whatever, if he lose the league I will stop watching Pokémon!" - The pokémon fanbase.
    4 - And the most important: his won will never have some importance to the plot. On the Pokémon anime, every season is like a rebbot of a previous one (Pokémon XY is for the series the same Yu-Gi-Oh! GX is to Yu-Gi-Oh!, or Digimon Fusion is for the other Digimon seasons). NOBODY IN THE ANIME WILL REMEMBER IF HE WIN!

    And you, what you think?
    1 - The Orange League was a literal filler season. It wasn't an official Pokemon League from the games, so people don't count it. Plus beating one guy with a hacked Dragonite is nothing compared to having to go through a gauntlet of league battles to reach the top. There's no comparison there.

    2 - How the heck does Ash being a hero affect the Pokemon League, or at the very least, how much he deserves a win? He can defeat legends and evil teams sure, but the Pokemon League is his goal throughout the anime. Evil Teams are almost always there just to spew the plot from the games so unless it's Team Flare since they've gone for a completely anime-only plot, it's just retelling the games, not Ash as a character. And the movies are never referenced in the main anime so they don't exactly matter in the anime's continuity. Ash isn't too good for the Pokemon Leagues, because if he was, he wouldn't be losing them.

    3 - Same argument as number one. He hasn't won an official league. Sure, it's great that he won some filler competitions, but that's the problem. They're filler. Small competitions, they aren't Ash's main goal and thus they aren't the viewer's main goal. We began watching Pokemon following Ash's dream to become a Pokemon Master and that's what draws people in. The fanbase has nothing to do with whether Ash deserves a victory.

    4 - Actually, the only anime that really has a proper reset is BW. Kanto through Sinnoh were all showing Ash's growth as a trainer and a character. He grew stronger, had references to past seasons and slowly he began to mature. XY and XYZ seemingly continue from that point onwards as well, leaving us with an Ash that is maturing. It's Ash's choice to always go to new regions with completely new teams and the adventure through the regions works perfectly like that. Even if he wins, he'll still want to travel and explore, whereas letting Ash win will let the viewers know that the writers are progressing. Pokemon is stagnant. That's a fact. If Ash doesn't win within the next two generations (Assuming there's a Gen 8) there'll be nobody left to care. So let him win so we can actually develop his character.
    So am I the only one that actually adores Ash-Greninja? I may also be slightly miffed at the lack of fanfiction for Ash and Ash's Greninja and the friendship they share ;-;

  17. #17
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    Ash deserves to win but it doesn't mean that he will win. It is up to the writers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
    Ash deserves to win but it doesn't mean that he will win. It is up to the writers.
    Pretty much this.

    I do agree that Ash should have won a League by now, given how many regions he's traveled through. But, you know, the anime in the end is just a giant commercial for the games and we need our dense hero and overrated yellow mouse mascot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vini310 View Post
    No...
    I just explained why I think that Ash don't deserve to win the league. nobody needs to agree with my arguments.
    Him saving the world, winning filler tournaments, and stopping bad guys is more reason why he SHOULD win a tournament. You highlighted his accomplishments and said he doesn't need more as your argument. I mean, it's like, your opinion, but you kind of also invalidate yourself.
    メガシンカ

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    Ash has now lost at every latter stage in a league (Top 16, Top 8, Top 4, Finals).

    Progression: Top 16 -> Top 8 (w/reserves) -> Top 8 (w/out reserves) -> Top 4 (w/reserves) -> (****) -> Top 2 (w/out reserves) -> Sun&Moon: Win???

    He basically deserved to win in both Sinnoh and Kalos, but since they like to progress him only one step at a time, if he is ever going to win everything, it has to be next season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Ash has now lost at every latter stage in a league (Top 16, Top 8, Top 4, Finals).

    Progression: Top 16 -> Top 8 (w/reserves) -> Top 8 (w/out reserves) -> Top 4 (w/reserves) -> (****) -> Top 2 (w/out reserves) -> Sun&Moon: Win???

    He basically deserved to win in both Sinnoh and Kalos, but since they like to progress him only one step at a time, if he is ever going to win everything, it has to be next season.
    If they make Sun and Moon the next D/P then Ash perhaps is gonna win, but after seeing the Kalos League, I don't have any hopes in seeing him winning anymore.

  22. #22
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    This week is so full of cringe, that I can't help but point and laugh at what I'm seeing. I don't remember it being this bad with Best Wishes, but this is up there with the Sinnoh League reactions based on what I've heard from fans over the years.

    Everyone has their share of wins and losses, some deserved, others not-so-deserved. Even if Ash was to win a league, while he'll take home the trophy and glory, much like what he told Scott at the end of the Battle Frontier, he'll just decline the offer to stay (if he's expected to stay in the area) and be an official part of the Elite Four or whatnot so he can go out and travel, because that's what he loves doing (although it'd be great for him to challenge the Elite Four members, since he hasn't done this in quite some time). He wants to be a Pokémon Master, and to do that, that means he's going to travel the world and learn all about Pokémon, regardless of his win-lose ratio. The Hall of Fame may be preserved forever, but I doubt Ash cares about that. He smiles and learns from his mistakes that have cost him a match, and moves on (he only rematches important figures such as gym leaders, but only after he goes through some training, something that was missing from the original series). He's a determinator, nothing's going to bring him down.

    I don't believe that Ash deserves to win certain leagues, but I believe he has to work for those victories (ignoring the meta of the will of the writers, of course). It'd be nice to see him gain a huge victory, but what's done is done. Just be glad he made some progress this time around, and wait for the next series' ending. I don't expect him to win that one either, although it depends on how they handle it that it may come off as a huge surprise.

    As for the OP's reasonings for why winning a league means nada:

    Quote Originally Posted by Vini310 View Post
    1 - His victory will be obfuscated by his defeats.
    "Orange League DOSEN'T COUNT!" - The Pokémon fanbase about Ash's victory.
    If not counting the Orange League simply because it's filler is of the majority, then I'm of the minority. Just because it was different doesn't mean it wasn't official. If Sun and Moon are going in this particular direction, there's no reason not to include the Orange League in this case.

    3 - He won some "filler" competitions, but NOBODY remenbers that!
    "I don't care if Ash won the High School Cup, the Battle Frontier or whatever, if he lose the league I will stop watching Pokémon!" - The pokémon fanbase.
    Although I will and have laughed at anyone in the fanbase who screams/has screamed something like that, this is just silly. I'm curious as to which age group is angry about this the most, though I'm willing to bet the actual demographic isn't freaking out this much.

    2 - Ash is a hero! He prevented Arceus from destroying the world (Movie 13) and defeted many criminals (you know: Team Plasma, Team Galactic etc). Pokémon Leagues are a waste of time.
    You know... of course games =/= anime/manga, but even in the games, you basically do save the world just before facing the League. Also, while the movies are non-canon, it's fact that the first Pokémon movie is canon, and Ash did save the world before he entered the Indigo League. Yes, argue all you want that he doesn't remember it, but it still happened.

    4 - And the most important: his won will never have some importance to the plot. On the Pokémon anime, every season is like a rebbot of a previous one (Pokémon XY is for the series the same Yu-Gi-Oh! GX is to Yu-Gi-Oh!, or Digimon Fusion is for the other Digimon seasons). NOBODY IN THE ANIME WILL REMEMBER IF HE WIN!
    I doubt that'll be true as even Ash's victory at the filler (read: "unofficial") Orange League has been acknowledged at least once. Yes, the way the show is formulated allows each season to basically be stand-alones, but it was only Best Wishes that may have attempted any kind of reboot until later when Charizard was brought in. This is cause for calling out certain members of the audience to just stop watching the anime if you're only going to get pissed off at it. No one's going to care, let alone notice. I can't imagine how they managed to make it this far in the anime with this mindset.
    Last edited by Kutie Pie; 20th August 2016 at 2:01 AM.
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    At this point I don't think him 'deserving' to win leagues counts for much cuz clearly the writing staff has different ideas in mind since they've allowed him to lose the major league tournies for almost twenty years now. :[


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    I'd say yes, but only if Ash does his part. And by "do his part", I mean he makes a truly ultimate team consisting of Pikachu, Charizard (preferably with a Mega Evolution, can be either X or Y), Sceptile (Ash's Mega if it isn't Charizard), Snorlax, Greninja, Infernape/Glalie/Donphan. The sixth slot can rotate depending on what is needed for the battle. Also, Ash has to remember his previous friends, traveling companions, and mother as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Ash has now lost at every latter stage in a league (Top 16, Top 8, Top 4, Finals).

    Progression: Top 16 -> Top 8 (w/reserves) -> Top 8 (w/out reserves) -> Top 4 (w/reserves) -> (****) -> Top 2 (w/out reserves) -> Sun&Moon: Win???

    He basically deserved to win in both Sinnoh and Kalos, but since they like to progress him only one step at a time, if he is ever going to win everything, it has to be next season.
    I say win if there is no regional league tournament in sun and Moon or if island trials are a one time thing otherwise I think he'll lose.
    Credit goes to PikaWaltz

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