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Thread: Community POTW #5

  1. #26
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    I've found that Zoroark is quite useful as a Scarf lead disguised as a Cofagrigus, strangely. I don't use Gengar because a lot of people seem used to the idea of Gengar Illusions. Some people have also used Fighting attacks on Turn 1 but nobody seems to predict the Cofagrigus.

    Zoroark @ Choice Scarf
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Night Burst/Dark Pulse
    - Extrasensory
    - Flamethrower
    - Focus Blast

    I was using a Timid Sashed Nasty Plot lead but it seemed to barely lack enough power to 1HKO a lot of leads. Extrasensory is on to take out Kojondo, which before I scarfed Zoroark would sometimes win the speed tie and invariably U-turn out to something with priority. Focus Blast for Sazandora and Tyranitar, Flamethrower for Nattorei and Forretress. The 4Def is so that its Special Defense is lower, so the occasional Download Pokémon won't be immediately tipped off. Cofagrigus is Taunt bait against pretty much any lead that has it, giving you a free attack.

    Scarf actually outspeeds Neutral Deoxys-S and can KO with Night Burst. It also roasts Scarf Genosect with Flamethrower (Not that that matters for a long while). Outspeeds and 1HKOs non sashed Ninjask. Fake Out leads never Fake Out because of Illusion.

  2. #27
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    PunishArk

    - Foul Play/Punishment
    - U-Turn
    - Vengeance
    - Aerial Ace/Ankle Sweep/Punishment

    @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Illusion
    Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)/Admadant (+Atk, -SAtk)
    Ev's 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Hp

    A set mainly to punish stat boosters, especially Sword- and Dragon dancers. Foul Play uses the opponents boosted attack stat against them, where the weaker Punishment can be used against the less common defence boosters too. U-turn can be usefull to flee from slower oponents, just to return with a new illusion a little later in the battle. Vengeance is another punishing move, and works well with U-Turn too. The last slot is for coverage or getting both Foul Play and Punishment in one set.

    Leftovers to survive longer, or Lum Berry for not getting recognized as you switch back in after taking a status makes up for the item slot.

    Go Jolly if you use Foul Play, or else stick to Admadant.

    Ev's are max Speed to outrun as much possible and Attack for the power of Vengeance. Alternatively you can switch Attack and Hp for surviving some longer.
    Last edited by jespoke; 30th January 2011 at 8:18 PM. Reason: Used a Bulbapedia translation + Ad'ed more detail

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by jespoke View Post
    PunishArk

    - Foul Play/Punishment
    - U-Turn
    - Retatlation
    - Aerial Ace/Ankle Sweep/Punishment

    @ Leftovers
    Illusion
    Jolly (+Spd, -SAtk)/Admadant (+Atk, -SAtk)
    Ev's 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def

    A set mainly to punish stat boosters, especially Sword- and Dragon dancers. Foul Play uses the opponents boosted attack stat against them, where the weaker Punishment can be used against the less common defence boosters too. U-turn can be usefull to flee from slower oponents, just to return with a new illusion a little later in the battle. Retatlation is another punishing move, and works well with U-Turn too. The last slot is for coverage or getting both Foul Play and Punishment in one set.

    Uh...just wondering...

    What's "retatlation"?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monochromatic View Post
    Uh...just wondering...

    What's "retatlation"?
    I believe it's that move Vengeance, which is a move that doubles in power if your opponent knocked one of your Pokemon on the previous turn.

  5. #30
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    Weezing seems like a good illusion partner, too. Its only weakness is psychic, which Zoroark is immune to. Also, it can pick up Toxic Spikes if need be.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vivmeister View Post
    I believe it's that move Vengeance, which is a move that doubles in power if your opponent knocked one of your Pokemon on the previous turn.
    Sorry for the Bulbapedia translation, i had forgotten all about the missing official translations

  7. #32
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    Standard Zoroark

    U-Turn
    Flamethrower
    Night Burst
    Extrasensory

    Yeah, it's been said a few times already, so I'll skip the explanation and go to the partners.

    POSSIBLE PARTNERS:

    MACHAMP: Here's something new to throw into the mix. Say you have a Machamp with these moves: DynamicPunch, Ice Punch, Earthquake, and Stone Edge. Together with Standard Zoroark, you can get super-effective hits on every type but water. Combine this with the Phychic weakness/illusion strategy, and you've got one tough combo.
    GENGAR: Its main weakness, Psychic, is resisted by Zoro. Confuse your oppenents easily.
    WEEZING: Once again, its only weakness is Psychic. Use it to your advantage.

    NOT TO USE AS PARTNERS: Grass, Ice, Normal, Rock, Steel, Psychic, or anything that shares Zoroark's weaknesses.

    COUNTERS: Accelgor (the ninga-clam) could be a threat because of its speed, just watch out for Flamethrower. Any fighting type that can beat Zoro's speed would also work. Remember: It's frail but fast, so try and KO it before it pulls a U-Turn and escapes.
    Last edited by MikeHill005; 30th January 2011 at 10:19 PM.
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  8. #33
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    We have a lot of nasty plot and choice sets already but has somebody an idea for using its novelty of being the only pokemon with Bark Out yet? I can't really find a good way to put it into use.

    "Short" sum up of Bark Out's uses on Zoroark. (Not because i think you need it, but because i enjoy making it)

    "Bark Out is, with its base 50 far from Zoroarks strongest stab move, but may be handy anyway as the Sp Attack drop it causes will be a hard thing to take for special oriented pokemon. The most effective use of the Sp Attack drop can be reacted with the most common use of Illusion, provoking the opponent to switch to a psychic pokemon(Special oriented more than 90% of the cases), with in turn is weak to Bark Out too."
    Last edited by jespoke; 30th January 2011 at 10:31 PM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jespoke View Post
    We have a lot of nasty plot and choice sets already but has somebody an idea for using its novelty of being the only pokemon with Bark Out yet? I can't really find a good way to put it into use.
    Well, the fact is that there are virtually no Special-based attacks that really are a threat to Zoroark. Most fighting attacks are Physical (excluding Focus Blast). Bug Buzz may pose a threat, but that's really the only thing it would be useful for (that comes to mind).
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  10. #35

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    OK, just like I did for Machamp, I'm just going to be thorough and blunt, instead of imitating a fully-done PotW.

    Side Note on Illusion: I've used Zoroark before on PO. To be honest, switching around is confusing, as it actually changes the order of your party. I do not know if this works in-game too or is just a PO perk.

    Boosting Special @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
    Illusion
    252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
    Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
    Nasty Plot
    Dark Pulse
    Flamethrower/Hidden Fight Power/Grass Knot
    any possible Hidden Power

    Zoroark's strongest set. The two auxillery moves are strange because Zoroark doesn't honestly have a wide movepool. Flamethrower can hit the plethora of Steels that resist Dark STAB, but Fight Power or Focus Blast can also nail rival Darks to an extent. Grass Knot is mainly for Tyranitar, but is an option. As for the final slot, you can pick an additional auxillery move or any HP of your choice.

    Physical Booster @ Life Orb/Expert Belt
    Illusion
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
    Adamant (+Atk, -SpAtk)/Jolly (+Spd, -SpAtk)
    Swords Dance
    Sucker Punch
    Ankle Sweep
    Night Slash/Taunt/Toxic/Return

    Theoretically weaker than a pure Special set, and has even less weapons at its disposal, though it can work when factoring in Zoroark's niche to cause chaos.

    Choice @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
    Illusion
    252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 Atk
    Timid (+Spd, -SpAtk)/Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
    U-turn
    Dark Pulse
    Focus Blast/Flamethrower
    Grass Knot/Hidden Power of choice

    Allows Zoroark to get the jump with an immediate 50% boost to whatever offensive Stat it wishes. Choice Band is omitted due to Swords Dance set already crammed for space, though it is possible to run Sucker Punch, U-turn, Pursuit, Return, and Ankle Sweep as viable Physical options.

    Speed Booster @ Life Orb
    252 SpAtk, 252 Spd, 4 HP
    Agility
    Dark Pulse
    Focus Blast
    Hidden Power/Flamethrower/Grass Knot

    Zoroark is already equipped with a fine 120 Base SpAtk. Agility complements Zoroark's high 105 Speed and to start sweeping with its Dark-Fight combo. Due to this, you may be able to find room to drop a few Speed EVs to invest in HP or possibly even go mix, but this is not Zoroark's strongest suit.

    Supplementary @ Focus Sash
    Illusion
    252 HP, 252 Spd, 4 SpDef
    Naive (+Spd, -Def)
    Counter
    Memento
    Taunt
    Torment/Foul Play

    This set is designed (usually as a lead) to disrupt the foe as as much as Zoroark can, then to use Memento as the final touch to disrupt the way for a sweeper.

    Pre-Evo Corner
    Zorua is frai beyond belief to consider any use for Evolution Stone. However, Zorua can easily run any of the sets Zoroark uses in LC. Furthermore, it is possible for Zorua to run the last set in order to supplement a sweep for Zoroark. And double Illusion is always frustrating for your opponent.

    Teammates: don't feel like it, everyone else already covered it
    Doubles, Triples, Rotation: I don't recommend Zoroark.

    Other Options
    Night Burst: Possible Dark Pulse replace
    ment, but usually isn't very good for both practical use and upholding Zorro's Illusion (although Zorro shouldn't be be Illuding a Dark type anyway)
    Extrasensory: Can be used to hit Fighting types on the switch. This is actually better on paper as it is in practice, because if Zoroark is able to outspeed the Fighting type in question, it will probably get struck by a Mach Punch.
    Shadow Ball: Is a better complement to Focus Blast than Dark Pulse is and helps uphold a Ghost Illusion, but is overall very inefficient with Dark Pulse, though Zoroark often finds itself with lots of movespace.

    Zoroark has a somewhat exclusive Speed stat of 105. As a sweeper, it is ideal to max it out, most notably to tie with other Zoroark and Kojondo (that tai chi weasel Fighting-type that can learn Aura Sphere). In the terms of Choice Scarf, you will usually want to still max it out. When using Agility, I have 252 Speed listed as a base line, but feel free to lower this at your whimsy.

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by jespoke View Post
    We have a lot of nasty plot and choice sets already but has somebody an idea for using its novelty of being the only pokemon with Bark Out yet? I can't really find a good way to put it into use.
    Bark Out is not a very useful move in general, especially considering Zoroark's frailness. It would be better off using Memento. I listed such a set. Zoroark honestly is not diverse in its options.

  12. #37
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    Nasty Fox
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Illusion
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Speed, 252 SpAtk, 4 HP

    - Dark Pulse (STAB attack, Flinch, More accuracy than Night Burst)
    - Flamethrower (Assorted coverage, great Anti-Steel)
    - Grass Knot (Takes out Rock types that resist Flamethrower and Bulky Waters)
    - Nasty Plot (Boosts Special attack by two stages)

    Dancing Fox
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Illusion
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Atk, 4 HP

    - Sucker Punch (STAB attack, Priority)
    - Night Slash (Stable attack) / Aerial Ace (Anti-Heracross/Fighting Types)
    - U-Turn (Scouting)
    - Swords Dance (Boosts Attack by two stages)

    I choose to mix it up!
    Item: Choice Scarf
    Ability: Illusion
    Nature: Adamant / Modest / Jolly / Timid
    EVs: 252 SpAtk, 252 Atk, 4 Speed

    - Dark Pulse (STAB attack)
    - Flamethrower (Anti-Steel/Bug (Anti-Forretress)) / Grass Knot (Anti-Rock/Water/Ground)
    - U-Turn (Scouting)
    - Aerial Ace / Focus Blast / Hidden Power / Extrasensory

    Partners

    Gengar is a great illusion to use. That's all I got, this guy is really better off flying solo. I do not recommend using moves that your illusion cannot use, or your opponent will figure out what's really behind the smoke and mirrors.

    Countering

    Even if he hides behind a Gengar illusion, Thunder Wave can still shut Zoroark down, unless he carries Sucker Punch. And even then, Zoroark will be severely hampered if luck is against him. After Zoroark is exposed, Fighting and Bug moves wreck him due to his awful defensive stats. Poor prediction with switch ins can lead to exposed Zoroarks, so he's better used as a revenge killer early on. Do not save him for the end when there's no pokemon left to act as illusions.
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  13. #38

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    Ok, I really didn't want to have to repeat myself, but since people seem to be posting without reading the thread or using the Pokemon, Gengar is an inefficient Zoroark partner. Though the typing resistances are good, there's a major problem in the fact that Gengar does not receive spikes damage while Zoroark does, meaning that against the huge amount of teams that use Spikes, Zoroark is never going to be able to properly disguise itself as a Gengar.

    And STOP POSTING SPECIALLY BASED SETS WITHOUT FOCUS BLAST. Seriously, Focus Blast is absolutely needed.

  14. #39
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    roopushin counters zoroark, i guess. machamp as well. any fighting types i guess. agiruuda looks like a good counter. it's faster, has STAB bug buzz, recover, and even power swap to give it better attacking stats.
    If any of this is wrong, i'm sorry. i'm a total newbie.

  15. #40
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    i haven't really studied any fifth gen in depth, but any pokemon with a weakness to psychic would make a good last slot teamate, lure in a psychic attack, they're now a turn behind. (if they use a psychic attack will that fade the illusion, or will it still be there?)
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    Ok, I really didn't want to have to repeat myself, but since people seem to be posting without reading the thread or using the Pokemon, Gengar is an inefficient Zoroark partner. Though the typing resistances are good, there's a major problem in the fact that Gengar does not receive spikes damage while Zoroark does, meaning that against the huge amount of teams that use Spikes, Zoroark is never going to be able to properly disguise itself as a Gengar.

    And STOP POSTING SPECIALLY BASED SETS WITHOUT FOCUS BLAST. Seriously, Focus Blast is absolutely needed.
    That doesn't mean it can't have Rapid Spin support from a team mate to put itself in safely. Also, not everyone wants to gamble on lower accuracy moves, like Focus Blast. Focus Blast, after looking through the Dark type list, I can name like 6... maybe 7 counters. Grass Knot gives 8+ (Counting Ground Types alone, didn't even bother checking Waters for additional ones yet), and one of them is a shared counter. Personally, I prefer going for whatever set will counter more pokemon, and with the other weather types gaining popularity now and Tyranitar losing some ground, we're not even that sure that he'll be as common as a threat this generation. Yes, he's still a big one, but he did take a noticeable fall from grace with all these new Fighting types. Speaking of which, a good amount of teams are gonna have them, and they can easily do a switch in and scare Tyranitar out should the necessity arise. I'm not saying Focus Blast is bad or useless, but I prefer safer alternatives with more coverage. That's my take on using Zoroark, yours isn't the only way to go.
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  17. #42
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    Ttar is going to be extremely common thanks to the drizzle + swift swim ban and how all powerful Excadrill is, so Focus Blast is mandatory on Zoroark.


    EDIT: lol get ninja'd epic_eevee

    btw AB is cuter than u
    Last edited by #TWERKTEAM; 31st January 2011 at 3:10 AM.

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimmahX View Post
    That doesn't mean it can't have Rapid Spin support from a team mate to put itself in safely. Also, not everyone wants to gamble on lower accuracy moves, like Focus Blast. Focus Blast, after looking through the Dark type list, I can name like 6... maybe 7 counters. Grass Knot gives 8+ (Counting Ground Types alone, didn't even bother checking Waters for additional ones yet), and one of them is a shared counter. Personally, I prefer going for whatever set will counter more pokemon, and with the other weather types gaining popularity now and Tyranitar losing some ground, we're not even that sure that he'll be as common as a threat this generation. Yes, he's still a big one, but he did take a noticeable fall from grace with all these new Fighting types. Speaking of which, a good amount of teams are gonna have them, and they can easily do a switch in and scare Tyranitar out should the necessity arise. I'm not saying Focus Blast is bad or useless, but I prefer safer alternatives with more coverage. That's my take on using Zoroark, yours isn't the only way to go.
    With Aldaron's proposal in Policy Review recently accepted, Sand is easily the single dominant weather, with Tyranitar probably the number one Pokemon in usage right now, and Focus Blast is Zoroark's best way of eliminating Tyranitar. It also helps significantly with Blissey/Chansey and allows Zoroark to single handedly beat some stall teams.

    Finally, Dark/Fighting has nearly unresisted type coverage. To put it simply, it's not just "my take on using Zoroark"; any specially based set that doesn't run Focus Blast isn't going to be as good as one that does unless it's on a really specialized team.

    edit: assassinsceptile basically summed it up too; focus blast is mandatory.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    With Aldaron's proposal in Policy Review recently accepted, Sand is easily the single dominant weather, with Tyranitar probably the number one Pokemon in usage right now, and Focus Blast is Zoroark's best way of eliminating Tyranitar. It also helps significantly with Blissey/Chansey and allows Zoroark to single handedly beat some stall teams.

    Finally, Dark/Fighting has nearly unresisted type coverage. To put it simply, it's not just "my take on using Zoroark"; any specially based set that doesn't run Focus Blast isn't going to be as good as one that does unless it's on a really specialized team.

    edit: assassinsceptile basically summed it up too; focus blast is mandatory.
    I wasn't aware of the Drizzle ban, so that definitely changes my perspective, a lot. With that being the case, I agree on the use of Focus Blast. I was going off of the fact that I was expecting Water types being a lot more common now in addition to the Ground coverage that Zoroark would normally lack.

    *Edit* Before I wind up doing something stupid with this later, is Ninetails with Drought banned as well?
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  20. #45
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    No it's not.

  21. #46
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    why are people suggesting shadow ball and extrasensory? both are terrible, terrible moves. extrasensory has some use but... yeah, it's not as good as other options.

    EDIT: also, I've had most success with zoroark posing as infernape. specifically, lead specszoro copying sd iron fist infernape. pretty much u-turn first turn, and go from there.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reno View Post
    why are people suggesting shadow ball and extrasensory? both are terrible, terrible moves. extrasensory has some use but... yeah, it's not as good as other options.

    EDIT: also, I've had most success with zoroark posing as infernape. specifically, lead specszoro copying sd iron fist infernape. pretty much u-turn first turn, and go from there.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reno View Post
    why are people suggesting shadow ball and extrasensory? both are terrible, terrible moves.
    YOU WANNA FIGHT

    extrasensory isn't without its uses as if you have good prediction you can nail roobushin on the switch in if it catches on... BUT I GUESS....... IT KINDA SUCKS

    p.s. brayels loves the ****

    p.p.s. never use night burst, it instantly gives you away and the accuracy drop isn't worth it
    <-----

  24. #49
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    With all the discussion we can boil down most of the special sets to:

    Nasty Plot
    - Nasty Plot (The move that boosts your offence, with this set revolves around)
    - Dark Pulse (STAB. Night Burst will give your Illusion away right away, and Bark Out is just bad)
    - Focus Blast (Combos well with Dark, is needed to beat the immensely popular sand teams)
    - Flamethrower/Grass Knot (For covering Foretress and Skarmory or Water and Ground respectively. Extrasensory just doesn't cover important enough things.)

    Choice
    - Dark Pulse (Reason above)
    - Focus Blast (Reason Above)
    - U-Turn (For scouting)
    - Flamethrower/Grass Knot (Reason above)
    Last edited by jespoke; 31st January 2011 at 11:43 AM.
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  25. #50
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    I suggest toxicroak here:

    Zoroark hides its weakness by illusioning into toxicroak. It resists both moves, so no one would want to use those moves.

    Toxicroak is x4 weak, but zoroak can soak them up, but the foe will now who it is in the process. Sadly that's the only weakness zoroark can soak up.

    Rain dance may check for zoroark due to toxicroak's ability of choice, dry skin. But the oppoment need to set up spike/SR to make it obvious. Alternative, you foe uses sandstorm while you use rain team team.

    As a sweeper, zoroark can be either.
    But for the physical side, it only has U-turn and shadow claw as a non-STAB alternative as well be return and other normal moves.
    As a special sweeper, you can set up Nasty Plot while your foe uses a psychic move on your 'toxicroak'. Although it'll get checked, zoroark will be ready to sweep.

    That's all I could think of how zoroark can hide as toxicroak. Add on/Mistakes to point out will be appreciated.
    Last edited by pikadon92; 31st January 2011 at 3:22 PM.

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