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Thread: Official Metagame Updates and Discussion Thread

  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazios View Post
    Which is why I find it odd that they managed to ban Blaziken. Reuniclus is more damaging to stall than Blaziken is to offense, though neither is broken, IMO.
    Blaziken is damaging to everything, bar maybe Rain and Sand teams but even they struggle if it gets too many speed boosts. Nothing except Slowbro can effectively counter Blaziken and only strong Aqua Jet users like Azumarill can reliably revenge kill it when it has full HP. Sure Reuniclus can destroy stall and do well against offensive teams, but Blaziken is much more powerful as a sweeper. The only reason I brought Reuniclus up to begin with is to say that no one would agree if you wanted to ban one specific thing on one specific pokemon.
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blazios View Post
    Which is why I find it odd that they managed to ban Blaziken. Reuniclus is more damaging to stall than Blaziken is to offense, though neither is broken, IMO.
    Reuniclus rapes 4th gen stall, but this isn't 4th gen. 5th gen stall has plenty of tricks to get rid of Reuniclus.

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    Oh, and Shadow tag Chandelure was officially banned in PO.


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  4. #29
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    smogon finally has an UU tier! and it's almost as bad as p-o's original UU tier!

    i have to say there's a large improvement player-wise, at least, i actually lost a couple of times on my way to #1 with a 3 month old team.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by artbomber_97 View Post
    Also, I feel that the Blaziken ban was a correct decision, since every Blaziken can easily get to +2 Attack and +1 Speed, and priorities don't hit it hard enough to KO at full health (resists Bullet Punch, Conkeldurr can't OHKO at full health with Mach Punch, and Aqua Jet is kinda rare). It's only reliable check for +1 Blaziken is Sand Rush Excadrill, but if Blaziken got to +2, it reaches 568 Speed with a + Speed nature, outspeeding Adamant 216 Spd Excadrill, and it's pretty much gg. The only way to stop Blaziken is to predict Hi Jump Kick and switches a Ghost in, so that it crashes and loses a chunk of HP. But there's no true counters for it, so banning it was a right decision.
    And thus is why they say "Smogon bans what they can't kill in one hit." Am I glad that I don't follow their rules...or anyone else's for that matter.

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  6. #31
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    wow. UU looks real weird to say the least. mew, zapdos, suicane?

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by :wub:disc View Post
    smogon finally has an UU tier! and it's almost as bad as p-o's original UU tier!

    i have to say there's a large improvement player-wise, at least, i actually lost a couple of times on my way to #1 with a 3 month old team.
    I checked the main site and the forum, where is the UU tier list??
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFang View Post
    I checked the main site and the forum, where is the UU tier list??
    http://www.smogon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=170

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  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight Gallade View Post
    And thus is why they say "Smogon bans what they can't kill in one hit." Am I glad that I don't follow their rules...or anyone else's for that matter.

    I'll use whatever the heck I want, thanks. I wanna have fun with Pokemon, not kill the game.
    They didn't ban it because you can't kill it in one hit. You can easily kill Blaziken in one hit. The problem is hitting it and killing it before it kills you. +2 Blaziken literally 2HKOs the game (except perhaps a select few), and can OHKO a huge number of Pokemon after entry hazards. It's also very hard to outspeed after just one turn, and nearly impossible after two. Now, if that seems fair to you, then that's your beef. But we competitive players prefer to keep things a little more balanced, thank you very much.

    I was pretty bummed out that Blaziken got banned at first, but then I realized that he can actually take stuff out easily in Ubers, too. Just for fun, I ran some calcs on an SD Blaziken vs. the mighty Kyorge. The results were amazing. A +2 LO Adamant Blaziken has the power to OHKO a 4/0 Modest Kyorge with Hi Jump Kick---twice! Even a Jolly Blaziken does a ton of damage to a bulky Kyorge. A 252/252 Bold Kyorge will survive Jolly Blaziken's Hi Jump kick with 1% health at best, and no one even runs sets that bulky on Kyorge. Heck, I've found that a set of Swords Dance/Hi Jump Kick/Shadow Claw/Protect works just fine in Ubers.

    I'm also glad that Smogon finally got a UU tier started. Considering Smogon's usage results seem a little more reliable than Pokemon Online's as a whole, I'm interested to see how their UU tier ends up when it balances out.

  10. #35

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    ^
    Also thought I'd add that Blaziken actually made #12 on the Ubers list which is impressive. Lugia and Giratina are the only common counters he has in the tier and they both have suprisingly low usage which probably explains some of it. Smogon probably won't take long to catch up with PO in terms of banning the obvious stuff for UU, kinda like they did for OU. They will probably also have to ban a few extra things like Zapdos which didn't make OU on Smogon but did on PO.
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  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    ^
    Also thought I'd add that Blaziken actually made #12 on the Ubers list which is impressive. Lugia and Giratina are the only common counters he has in the tier and they both have suprisingly low usage which probably explains some of it.
    Even then, they have to be careful, depending on what set Blaziken is running. A +2 LO Adamant Blaziken will always OHKO 252/252 Bold Lugia with Stone Edge after SR, and has a small chance to OHKO even without it. That same Blaziken also has a pretty solid chance to 2HKO 252/252 Impish Giratina-A with Shadow Claw, even after Leftovers. Entry hazards ensure a 2HKO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    Smogon probably won't take long to catch up with PO in terms of banning the obvious stuff for UU, kinda like they did for OU. They will probably also have to ban a few extra things like Zapdos which didn't make OU on Smogon but did on PO.
    We'll see a BL list being formed at some point once OU is better organised. It's a bit early still to concentrate on the lower tiers.

    I really hope Zapdos (along with Starmie and Gengar) makes it back into OU though. :[
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    At least Evire is UU for now

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    Quick question: Why did Vulpix get the boot from LC/UU on PO? I mean, Hippo and Snover are still both there, and Sand Rush is almost equivalent to Chlorophyll. I may understand LC, but UU? It's almost a waste of a slot for Permanent Sun. I mean guys, it's Vulpix: Not like he's got the best stats in the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquadon View Post
    Quick question: Why did Vulpix get the boot from LC/UU on PO? I mean, Hippo and Snover are still both there, and Sand Rush is almost equivalent to Chlorophyll. I may understand LC, but UU? It's almost a waste of a slot for Permanent Sun. I mean guys, it's Vulpix: Not like he's got the best stats in the world.
    They banned it within one week of the tier being created with virtually zero testing. PO's tiers are based entirely off mod decisions so it pretty much came down to Kokoloko or Bad Romance deciding it was too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MudkipsAreAwesome View Post
    Oh, and Shadow tag Chandelure was officially banned in PO.
    This was something I expected to see. Very glad to see this.

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  17. #42
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    Talking about Blaziken, he OHKO-ed a Jellicent with BLAZE KICK after swords dance in PO.


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  18. #43
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    Guys, sorry I couldn't update this since I lost my connection for a few weeks. And thanks to those who updated this for me.

    A ban in Chandelure, in my opinion, is just a matter of time. It totally overcentralized the metagame, and the OU tier became unbalanced because of it.

    And Smogon created the UU tier, they are deciding the cutoff method I think.

    Also, there's a Scraggy LC vote going on in Pokemon Online. Vote if you feel like it.
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  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquadon View Post
    Quick question: Why did Vulpix get the boot from LC/UU on PO? I mean, Hippo and Snover are still both there, and Sand Rush is almost equivalent to Chlorophyll. I may understand LC, but UU? It's almost a waste of a slot for Permanent Sun. I mean guys, it's Vulpix: Not like he's got the best stats in the world.
    I've heard of a few reasons why Vulpix might be banned.

    First off, Cholophyll users are much more prominent in UU than Sand Rush users. Sand Rush has just Stoutland and Sandslash, neither of which are all that threatening. Chlorophyll has a few more prominent users, namely Venasaur, Tangrowth, and Sawsbuck. There's also CBVictini, whose V-Create hits the tier like a H-Bomb on steriods. Solar Power Charizard also does a good job of tearing stuff up.

    Vulpix does kind of suck to take up a team slot, but permaSun really does a number on UU.

  20. #45

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    Apparently PO has decided to go the route of banning broken weather sweepers rather than using complex bans or banning weather itself... This will make them much different from Smogon. It isn't officially banned yet, but Kingdra is being tested, and will most likely be Uber.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    Apparently PO has decided to go the route of banning broken weather sweepers rather than using complex bans or banning weather itself... This will make them much different from Smogon. It isn't officially banned yet, but Kingdra is being tested, and will most likely be Uber.
    I can say from my experience on random matchups that swift swim kingdra is a huge b!i#%^ since it outspeeds all the other dragons

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  22. #47
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    I love how people say Smogon is ban happy when the only thing banned this gen that wasn't last gen is Blaziken. Not to mention they unbanned a ton of stuff.

    I'm curious to see where Garchomp ends up. Its the only suspect that has a good chance of being banned.

  23. #48

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    ^Agreed.

    I think people will have realized that Deo-S and Latios probably aren't broken so it wouldn't suprise me if they got voted OU this next round.
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  24. #49
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    After people figured out Sp.Def Jirachi was a hard counter to Latios, the calls for it to be banned began to die down quite a bit. I hope to god Garchomp gets banned though. SubSD just introduces too much of a luck factor, and the ease with which it can set up and retain it's Sub is stupid, especially considering after one SD, there's not much Garchomp won't be beating one on one. Not to mention, some of the harder counters (Skarmory) can be screwed over by a untimely Whirlwind miss.

  25. #50

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    News on Smogon's UU.

    Drought: 30 Bans, 1 Do Not Ban (96.77% Ban)
    Shell Smash + Baton Pass: 18 Bans, 10 Do Not Bans, 3 Abstains (64.29% Ban)

    Drought is gone, but Shell Passing is going to be legal for one more round...Should easily be banned next time though.
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