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Thread: Official Metagame Updates and Discussion Thread

  1. #51
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    But Droughtales is in OU, and Pokemon from OU are banned from UU battles, so I don't see the point of that poll.

  2. #52
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    Vulpix is UU.

    Edit: Well BL now.

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post
    But Droughtales is in OU, and Pokemon from OU are banned from UU battles, so I don't see the point of that poll.
    Its called Vulpix. It also has Drought, and allows things like Lilligant, Charizard, Exeggutor, Victini, Sawsbuck, Arcanine, etc, to break the metagame.
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    Its called Vulpix. It also has Drought, and allows things like Lilligant, Charizard, Exeggutor, Victini, Sawsbuck, Arcanine, etc, to break the metagame.
    Okay, so who's going to be the new Sunny Day user?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dattebayo View Post
    Okay, so who's going to be the new Sunny Day user?
    "Pokemon X" @ Heat Rock is, unless this ban is for sunny day as whole, not just permasun, which would be unfortunate IMO.

    Even though Kyurem is going to be obviously booted to BL too, hail is going to jump in use now. Unless A-snow and snover get the boot too...
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  6. #56
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    Smogon's just d**king around now.

    I STILL don't see why they just ban Dream World abilities all together. Its a pain in the ass to deal with some of these and some are extremely broken. (like Speed Boost Blaziken and Shadow Tag Chandelure)
    It is beyond me why they just don't ban them already... but you know I have no control over any of this so
    oopsie

  7. #57

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    I doubt Sun will even remain a top tier playstyle without the easy to set up Drought. Rain abusers are probably better anyway, so if anything Rain would see a rise in usage, especially since it looks like Tornadus may be dropping down when they release another tier list in a couple of months. And yea, rifle is probably right about Hail being used the most of all weathers down there since without Sun it can more easily dominate. Sand just doesn't have enough abusers in UU, even with Hippopotas.
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  8. #58
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    Since no one else has said it, i might as well say that Smogon has created the rarely used tier due to the large number of pokemon in UU
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  9. #59

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    Yea, and I'm sure NU will be made from the lesser used pokes in RU. Not sure exactly what they will be doing with RU (such as maybe making a banlist for it,) but so far most people think its retarded. My main concern is that very few people will bother to play it since the userbases only get smaller as you go down the tiers, and the userbase for NU last gen was close to non-existant, so RU might be the same, and as for NU when it is made, only a handful of people will play that also.

    Edit: Results are in for UU pokemon votes.

    Victini: 18 Ban, 11 Do Not Ban, 2 Abstain (62% Ban)
    Kyurem: 31 Ban , 0 Do Not Ban, 0 Abstain (100% Ban)
    Chansey: 15 Ban, 15 Do Not Ban, 1 Abstain (50% Do Not Ban)
    Staraptor: 17 Ban, 11 Do Not Ban, 3 Abstain (60% Ban)
    Mew: 18 Ban, 11 Do Not Ban, 2 Abstain (62% Ban)
    Wobbuffet: 14 Ban, 15 Do Not Ban, 2 Abstain (51% Do Not Ban)

    Kyurem is gone. No surprise there. Victini, Staraptor, and Mew are around for one more test, though will most likely be gone next time. Chansey and Wobb narrowly escape simple majority so they are staying.
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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by d0nut View Post
    Yea, and I'm sure NU will be made from the lesser used pokes in RU. Not sure exactly what they will be doing with RU (such as maybe making a banlist for it,) but so far most people think its retarded. My main concern is that very few people will bother to play it since the userbases only get smaller as you go down the tiers, and the userbase for NU last gen was close to non-existant, so RU might be the same, and as for NU when it is made, only a handful of people will play that also.

    Edit: Results are in for UU pokemon votes.

    Victini: 18 Ban, 11 Do Not Ban, 2 Abstain (62% Ban)
    Kyurem: 31 Ban , 0 Do Not Ban, 0 Abstain (100% Ban)
    Chansey: 15 Ban, 15 Do Not Ban, 1 Abstain (50% Do Not Ban)
    Staraptor: 17 Ban, 11 Do Not Ban, 3 Abstain (60% Ban)
    Mew: 18 Ban, 11 Do Not Ban, 2 Abstain (62% Ban)
    Wobbuffet: 14 Ban, 15 Do Not Ban, 2 Abstain (51% Do Not Ban)

    Kyurem is gone. No surprise there. Victini, Staraptor, and Mew are around for one more test, though will most likely be gone next time. Chansey and Wobb narrowly escape simple majority so they are staying.
    I always thought that "RU" would wind up being a ban-list from NU, not it's own tier :/ . I'm not so sure it's necessary as an entity utterly separate from NU, what purpose does it really serve? NU is kind of a basin for everything not at least UU to settle into, we really didn't need another tier except maybe to create a stable "NU metagame" (which smogon will never be able to get around to doing).

    Yeah, I wish I had a picture of someone using a Gravity Hammer on Halo, and photo-shopped Kyurem into it, because that thing just got BANHAMMERED, and rightfully so. Mew and Victini possibly going BL doesn't surprise me either. I'm suspicious of anything with shadow tag, so the narrow escape for wobbuffett saddens me a little. No opinion on Starraptor, I've only seen one this generation so far. It was BL last gen though, and it's still probably one of the best Normal/Flying types around (unlike the **** that is Unpheasant...)
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RifleAvenger View Post
    I always thought that "RU" would wind up being a ban-list from NU, not it's own tier :/ . I'm not so sure it's necessary as an entity utterly separate from NU, what purpose does it really serve? NU is kind of a basin for everything not at least UU to settle into, we really didn't need another tier except maybe to create a stable "NU metagame" (which smogon will never be able to get around to doing).

    Yeah, I wish I had a picture of someone using a Gravity Hammer on Halo, and photo-shopped Kyurem into it, because that thing just got BANHAMMERED, and rightfully so. Mew and Victini possibly going BL doesn't surprise me either. I'm suspicious of anything with shadow tag, so the narrow escape for wobbuffett saddens me a little. No opinion on Starraptor, I've only seen one this generation so far. It was BL last gen though, and it's still probably one of the best Normal/Flying types around (unlike the **** that is Unpheasant...)
    remember the power creep tell me how thinngs like buterfree or farfeched deal with the kind power being thrown around UU this gen(which is aproximatly as powerful as gen 4 OU)? If a tier doesn't come in between UU and NU then the power creep will hit them hard too.
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  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragrath View Post
    remember the power creep tell me how thinngs like buterfree or farfeched deal with the kind power being thrown around UU this gen(which is aproximatly as powerful as gen 4 OU)? If a tier doesn't come in between UU and NU then the power creep will hit them hard too.
    Both were NU last gen, and that's where they were typically run. Trying to run them in UU alone took special care. As for things that were UU and no longer make the cut, well, they shouldn't be UU anymore. If the things dropping down to NU break NU, that's when a RU teir should come in. Now, however, they seem to be promoting OU (with ubers as banlist), UU (BL as the banlist), RU (with a RU banlist), and NU (with a NU banlist). That's a bit much, if you ask me, considering they never really got around to analyzing the NU metagame last generation, so there was a stupid power gap in there (Ramparados versus plusle and minun, who wins?).
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  13. #63
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    hmm regardless of how smogon is totally made of noobs who want to control wifi, i'd like to know your opinion about some pokémon who are underestimated, my example being bisharp, no one sees him as an epic sweeper and potential revenge killer?
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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitorml View Post
    hmm regardless of how smogon is totally made of noobs who want to control wifi, i'd like to know your opinion about some pokémon who are underestimated, my example being bisharp, no one sees him as an epic sweeper and potential revenge killer?
    Have you ever read Smogon's mission statement?

    Frankly there are several threads that already discuss what you're trying to do

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser soze View Post
    Have you ever read Smogon's mission statement?

    Frankly there are several threads that already discuss what you're trying to do
    hmm regardless, its still for noobs, but i still think there are various sweepers people are afraid to use because they're underrated, i'd like to know anyone's opinion about them
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  16. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitorml View Post
    hmm regardless, its stillf or noobs, but i still think there re various sweepers people are afraid to use because they're underrated, i'd like to know anyone's opinion about them
    My opinion about Smogon is that the players there who vote on the tiering are much better at this game than you are.

    That is all.

    edit: and bisharp is pretty bad in ou right now

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    My opinion about Smogon is that the players there who vote on the tiering are much better at this game than you are.

    That is all.

    edit: and bisharp is pretty bad in ou right now
    nah they're just a bunch of simpleminded noobs, but anyhow, i think bisharp pwns a lot of sweepers with correct moves, for example, mine has SD, sucker punch, brick break and iron head, he works pretty well and OHKOes a lot of counters, namely, heatran, ferrothorn, chandelure and even conkeldurr(ok, he needs 2 SDs to OHKO conkelderp, but still...)
    all people gotta learn is get out of smogon's narrow vision and try to make their own sets
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by vitorml View Post
    nah they're just a bunch of simpleminded noobs, but anyhow, i think bisharp pwns a lot of sweepers with correct moves, for example, mine has SD, sucker punch, brick break and iron head, he works pretty well and OHKOes a lot of counters, namely, heatran, ferrothorn, chandelure and even conkeldurr(ok, he needs 2 SDs to OHKO conkelderp, but still...)
    all people gotta learn is get out of smogon's narrow vision and try to make their own sets
    Have you ever heard of Excadrill? Outclasses him as an SD sweeper. He's bad because of all the Fighting priority flying around.

    Oh, and OHKOing counters? They're counters for a reason, they beat him, he doesn't beat them.


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  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitorml View Post
    nah they're just a bunch of simpleminded noobs
    Oh goodie, another one of these guys.

    but anyhow, i think bisharp pwns a lot of sweepers with correct moves, for example, mine has SD, sucker punch, brick break and iron head, he works pretty well and OHKOes a lot of counters, namely, heatran, ferrothorn, chandelure and even conkeldurr(ok, he needs 2 SDs to OHKO conkelderp, but still...)
    Heatran outspeeds and OHKOs with Fire Blast. Conkeldurr OHKOs easily with Mach Punch. Ferrothorn and Chandelure may be right, but no one is going to use those to counter Bisharp.

    all people gotta learn is get out of smogon's narrow vision and try to make their own sets
    Again, another one of these guys.

  20. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitorml View Post
    nah they're just a bunch of simpleminded noobs, but anyhow, i think bisharp pwns a lot of sweepers with correct moves, for example, mine has SD, sucker punch, brick break and iron head, he works pretty well and OHKOes a lot of counters, namely, heatran, ferrothorn, chandelure and even conkeldurr(ok, he needs 2 SDs to OHKO conkelderp, but still...)
    all people gotta learn is get out of smogon's narrow vision and try to make their own sets
    Oh god, you're a random smogon hater who doesn't understand tiers. Goodie.

    Let's look at the top 50 OU pokemon. Bisharp loses to some TTar, all Scizor, Politoed, Gliscor, Excadrill, Dragonite, Heatran, SKarmory, Conkeldurr, SubDisable/SubSplit Gengar, Bulky Rotom-W, Jellicent (it just Taunts then WoWs you and you can't do anything back), Gyarados, Volcarona, Infernape, Toxicroak, Terrakion, Tentacruel, Breloom, Hydreigon, Virizion, Scrafty, Lucario, Mienshao, and Machamp. Also Quagsire. Oh also pretty much anything with Substitute that outspeeds it.

    That's quite the list. It's better to use something that isn't dead weight against a ton of stuff.

    And you don't get it, do you. Tiers are based upon two things -- usage stats and suspect voting. PO and Smogon don't have anywhere the same memberbase, but they have pretty much the same OU tiers barring one or two changes because people soon figure out which pokemon suck and which don't, and they use the ones that don't suck. Get it?

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    Oh god, you're a random smogon hater who doesn't understand tiers. Goodie.

    Let's look at the top 50 OU pokemon. Bisharp loses to some TTar, all Scizor, Politoed, Gliscor, Excadrill, Dragonite, Heatran, SKarmory, Conkeldurr, SubDisable/SubSplit Gengar, Bulky Rotom-W, Jellicent (it just Taunts then WoWs you and you can't do anything back), Gyarados, Volcarona, Infernape, Toxicroak, Terrakion, Tentacruel, Breloom, Hydreigon, Virizion, Scrafty, Lucario, Mienshao, and Machamp. Also Quagsire. Oh also pretty much anything with Substitute that outspeeds it.

    That's quite the list. It's better to use something that isn't dead weight against a ton of stuff.

    And you don't get it, do you. Tiers are based upon two things -- usage stats and suspect voting. PO and Smogon don't have anywhere the same memberbase, but they have pretty much the same OU tiers barring one or two changes because people soon figure out which pokemon suck and which don't, and they use the ones that don't suck. Get it?
    hmm, as i said its a question of knowing how to use him, i'd never stay in front of a gengar, knowing the danger it becomes, gyarados activates defiant and he cant OHKO bisharp with one waterfall unless it has at least one boost, of course, normally i'd setup two swords dances on teams with fighting types, but it all depends on knowing how to use anything, scizor also hasnt lost its shine, only losing to volcarona and other rare sweepers
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  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitorml View Post
    hmm, as i said its a question of knowing how to use him, i'd never stay in front of a gengar, knowing the danger it becomes, gyarados activates defiant and he cant OHKO bisharp with one waterfall unless it has at least one boost, of course, normally i'd setup two swords dances on teams with fighting types, but it all depends on knowing how to use anything, scizor also hasnt lost its shine, only losing to volcarona and other rare sweepers
    So basically you're saying that if you are going to get two free turns to set up then you'll be able to beat stuff with it.


    lol. That can be said for pretty much anything. Literally. However those things aren't pretty much a dead weight against half the metagame.

    But if you don't trust me on this, direct all your complaints to two smogon users who help with tiering -- Aeroblacktyl and Jrrrrrrr. They will listen to all of your complaints and leave responses acknowledging your thoughts. So make a smogon account and post your complaints with the tiering system on their visitor message walls!!!!

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    So basically you're saying that if you are going to get two free turns to set up then you'll be able to beat stuff with it.


    lol. That can be said for pretty much anything. Literally. However those things aren't pretty much a dead weight against half the metagame.

    But if you don't trust me on this, direct all your complaints to two smogon users who help with tiering -- Aeroblacktyl and Jrrrrrrr. They will listen to all of your complaints and leave responses acknowledging your thoughts. So make a smogon account and post your complaints with the tiering system on their visitor message walls!!!!
    i already did complain, when i used to like smogon, but i dont like for some other reasons, and i didnt say i need two turns, only one SD can OHKO most counters to it, i meant you gotta know how to use it
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  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by vitorml View Post
    i already did complain, when i used to like smogon, but i dont like for some other reasons, and i didnt say i need two turns, only one SD can OHKO most counters to it, i meant you gotta know how to use it
    "normally i'd set up two swords dances on teams with fighting types"

    That's two turns.

    And no, with one SD, you can't ohko most counters to it. All common OU fighting types beat it even at +2, Dark Types that outspeed beat it at +2, stuff with Substitute that outspeeds beats it even at +2...etc. And lol don't talk to me about not knowing how to use SD Bisharp, I've hit the top 10 and better on Smogon UU using teams with it.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by epic_eevee View Post
    "normally i'd set up two swords dances on teams with fighting types"

    That's two turns.

    And no, with one SD, you can't ohko most counters to it. All common OU fighting types beat it even at +2, Dark Types that outspeed beat it at +2, stuff with Substitute that outspeeds beats it even at +2...etc. And lol don't talk to me about not knowing how to use SD Bisharp, I've hit the top 10 and better on Smogon UU using teams with it.
    oooh no you're right, however i made my tests and he surely OHKOs bulky volcaronas and other stuff, but i see your point, depending on who's using it bisharp can suck a lot
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