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Thread: Team Rock Solid: A Recap [BTRMT]

  1. #1
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    Default Team Rock Solid: A Recap [BTRMT]

    Team has now peaked at 519.






    Palmer1: 15-61213-15828
    Palmer2: 40-65423-88565
    Battle 117: 14-81672-74000
    Battle 303: 48-51073-66323
    Battle 520: 62-87645-93075



    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Timid Nature
    252 HP/172 Def/84 Spe
    Levitate»
    Trick
    Flash
    Memento
    Thunder Wave

    After using Latias for a good I while, I realized how much I
    missed Memento. Since my Latias had >great defensive IV's
    I noticed that I was only taking about 2% more damage on
    Latios in the long run. Spe EV's let him outspeed 'Chomp with
    no Scarf.


    Shuckle @ Leftovers
    Adamant Nature
    252 Atk/252 HP/6 SpD
    Sturdy»
    Rest
    Rock Slide
    Earthquake
    Acupressure

    Same as ever, QuakeEdge, Rest and Pseudo-Invincibility. I've
    tried using Sub>EQ here, but imo it's not necessary at all. Crits
    usually only 2HKO and Rest covers status.


    Empoleon @ Petaya Berry
    Modest Nature
    252 SpA/204 Spe/36 HP/18 Def
    Torrent»
    Surf
    Agility
    Ice Beam
    Substitute

    The Spe EV's let him outpace Electrode after an Agility, SpA is
    maxed for obvious reasons, the HP EV's allow the berry to
    activate after 3 Subs and the rest are dumped into Def. STAB
    Torrent/Petaya Surfs hurt anything without Water Absorb badly,
    Ice Beam is mainly for grass types and Sub is Sub.
    © TheBlueRabbit, 2010


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    Sorry for your loss, is it by hax or by mis-judgment? BTW, this team has been in your sig for quite a while, have you just started using this one?

    Anyway, maybe Sleep Talk over something on Shuckle, not sure what. But when Shuckle is asleep nothing can hurt it anyway... just something to consider. For Emp's ev's maybe a bit more on the defenses because you are going to be using Agility, so not much in Speed is needed. Like any team Crits are a problem, but considering the bulk and Memento, Agility, Substitute, and Acupressure abundance, you should do fine.

    Nice team, good luck. (Have you posted your previous team on Smogon?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gyaradosuseddragonrage! View Post
    Sorry for your loss, is it by hax or by mis-judgment? BTW, this team has been in your sig for quite a while, have you just started using this one?
    Mainly hax, and yea, I've been using this for a while.

    Anyway, maybe Sleep Talk over something on Shuckle, not sure what. But when Shuckle is asleep nothing can hurt it anyway... just something to consider.
    Sleep Talk was considered, but it really didn't do much
    for me, besides, he benefits more from the coverage of
    2 moves.

    For Emp's ev's maybe a bit more on the defenses because you are going to be using Agility, so not much in Speed is needed.
    Well, those Spe EV's, as stated in the description, make
    sure I'm outspeeding Electrode who is the fastest threat
    to Empoleon.

    Nice team, good luck. (Have you posted your previous team on Smogon?)
    Thanks, but the streak is already over.

    Nah, haven't posted to Smogon, not sure if I will yet
    either. My other team is floating around SppF somewhere
    though.

    ^Click it!^

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuckle View Post
    Mainly hax, and yea, I've been using this for a while.



    Sleep Talk was considered, but it really didn't do much
    for me, besides, he benefits more from the coverage of
    2 moves.



    Well, those Spe EV's, as stated in the description, make
    sure I'm outspeeding Electrode who is the fastest threat
    to Empoleon.



    Thanks, but the streak is already over.

    Nah, haven't posted to Smogon, not sure if I will yet
    either. My other team is floating around SppF somewhere
    though.
    Well, the way you worded the intro made me think the previous team was over, ended at 391. Also about the Spe EV's, you will be under a Sub and Agility-ing so you should be easily outspeeding Electrode.

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    I see what you're saying, but Empoleon wasn't made to
    function at +6, he usually only gets one Agility anyway.
    Shuckle takes 20+ turns to set up, so having something
    that can set up quickly makes the long haul easier. If I
    were to switch to say, a Timid Nature I'd be losing a lot
    of power in favor of a few HP/Def points.

    ^Click it!^

  6. #6

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    gyaradosuseddragonrage, I designed the Empoleon in this team. It was made specifically to function with minimal setup time. It's pointless in whacking down the Spe EVs a bit on the premises that Empoleon will outspeed after multiple Agilities because in the time taken to set up a further Agility, it will have taken another hit which didn't have to be taken at all, had it invested the correct amount of Spe. With 204 Spe it hits its target immediately and can then get straight to attacking without having to wait for another turn to go by. The only real place where EVs could be moved is from SpAtk to Def or SpDef and that is just hindering the offensive nature of the set.

    Already said to Joe that I can't see how to improve this team without member changes tbh.

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    My condolences on your loss, Joe. If anyone on Serebii deserved a streak this big, it'd be you. You at least have original ideas, I have to take cues from the best in order to retain my #6 spot on the Smogon Frontier Records List.

    Anyway, you don't need to outpace Electrode after an Agility. Max Speed Base 130's will do, Jolteon is the only Pokemon you should really be worrying about faster than Base 120 anyway. Too lazy to calc what that is, but dump the rest into Defense for more resistence to priority, which is one of the few things that can stop a fully set-up SubPetaya Empoleon.

    Also, you may want to consider Grass Knot or HP Grass over Ice Beam. Water-types are probably the biggest threat to this team, and you're leaving yourself wide open without a move to check them. However, Grass-types are fairly threatening as well, so Ice Beam is still an excellent move choice.

    Honestly, the team is excellent as is, and even I can barely find anything to say for it. Kudos to you, mang.
    "I'm fighting because there's a battle to be fought, Archer. I'm fighting to win. That's all."
    "Hm. Alright, Rin. You are indeed my ideal Master. There is no one else I could hope to serve."



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    I still think SD Empoleon is viable. :B
    156 Pokemon in the Unova dex. 6 of them are event Pokemon.
    151 Pokemon in the Kanto dex. 1 of them is an event Pokemon.

    When you see it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Master View Post
    My condolences on your loss, Joe. If anyone on Serebii deserved a streak this big, it'd be you. You at least have original ideas, I have to take cues from the best in order to retain my #6 spot on the Smogon Frontier Records List.
    Thanks mang, that means a lot. It takes more than just ideas
    to get a good streak tho. ;D

    Anyway, you don't need to outpace Electrode after an Agility.
    I would usually agree with you here, but this guy:
    794 | Electrode | Quirky | Focus Sash | Thunderbolt | Signal Beam | Explosion | Mirror Coat | SpA/Spe
    I'd rather lose a few defense points to outspeed than end up
    taking a TBolt at 1/4 HP.

    Also, you may want to consider Grass Knot or HP Grass over Ice Beam. Water-types are probably the biggest threat to this team, and you're leaving yourself wide open without a move to check them. However, Grass-types are fairly threatening as well, so Ice Beam is still an excellent move choice.
    I actually considered running HP [Electric/Grass] for a while,
    but as you said, grass was a pain. Empoleon suffers more
    against a grass type than a water type, so I stuck with IB.

    Honestly, the team is excellent as is, and even I can barely find anything to say for it. Kudos to you, mang.
    Thanks again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ungulateman
    I still think SD Empoleon is viable. :B
    SDPoleon is far too cool for this team, he'd overshadow Shuckle.

    ^Click it!^

  10. #10
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    794 | Electrode | Quirky | Focus Sash | Thunderbolt | Signal Beam | Explosion | Mirror Coat | SpA/Spe
    You do realize that that Electrode doesn't actually run max spe because of its nature, right?
    "I'm fighting because there's a battle to be fought, Archer. I'm fighting to win. That's all."
    "Hm. Alright, Rin. You are indeed my ideal Master. There is no one else I could hope to serve."



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    *Facepalm*

    Can't believe I missed that. :/

    I ran a few calcs just to see what would happen, and
    it turns out that I'm only 2HKO'ing Electrode without
    a Petaya boost (71.1%-84.4%). If he outspeeds and
    breaks my sub at full health, I could have a problem.
    I know, it's highly situational, but I'd rather be prepared
    than incredibly pissed off.

    Those calcs were done with a neutral SpA nature, since
    there's only one with a beneficial one btw.

    ^Click it!^

  12. #12

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    After a brief discussion of this with Eon, I have something to add about the specific priority that could be problematic for Empoleon. For reference to Eon's argument,
    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Master
    Anyway, you don't need to outpace Electrode after an Agility. Max Speed Base 130's will do, Jolteon is the only Pokemon you should really be worrying about faster than Base 120 anyway. Too lazy to calc what that is, but dump the rest into Defense for more resistence to priority, which is one of the few things that can stop a fully set-up SubPetaya Empoleon.
    The most powerful Sucker Punches in the Tower, which are the only noteworthy priority attacks since Mach Punch will always deal out too much damage for any real investment to be useful, are thrown out by the Max Atk / Jolly Absol, 374 | Absol | Jolly | Chople Berry | Sucker Punch | Facade | Double Team | Taunt | Atk/Spe. Against 36 HP / 18 Def Empoleon, they do 23.2% - 27.4% while against a 36 HP / 54 Def Empoleon, which is what results from knocking the Spe EVs down to 164 to outspeed Timid Jolteon at +2, they hit for 22% - 25.6%. It's slightly reassuring to be almost guaranteed a surviving Sub after getting hit by Sucker Punch Absol but it's situational and imo better to cover the occasional Max Spe Electrode which can't be OHKO'd without boosts, unlike Absol who takes 85.7% - 101.4%. It's a slight margin, sure, but still. Also worth noting that the only Sucker Punch Absol lacks Superpower so it can't really kill Empoleon very easily at all. I'm still saying invest to hit Electrode.
    Last edited by Noctourniquet; 11th February 2011 at 1:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueRabbit View Post
    gyaradosuseddragonrage, I designed the Empoleon in this team. It was made specifically to function with minimal setup time. It's pointless in whacking down the Spe EVs a bit on the premises that Empoleon will outspeed after multiple Agilities because in the time taken to set up a further Agility, it will have taken another hit which didn't have to be taken at all, had it invested the correct amount of Spe. With 204 Spe it hits its target immediately and can then get straight to attacking without having to wait for another turn to go by. The only real place where EVs could be moved is from SpAtk to Def or SpDef and that is just hindering the offensive nature of the set.

    Already said to Joe that I can't see how to improve this team without member changes tbh.
    OK, I see what you mean, you need to outpace every threat and Agility is for speed uppers, am i right?

  14. #14

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    ^ I didn't say anything about Speed Uppers. Agility is there to get past the threats and that's it. If said threats are using Speed Boosting moves, then Empoleon will have to use Agility multiple times to get around that issue.

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    But I thought the EV's were tended to get past the threats? If that was you meant, I interpreted the Agility was for Speed Uppers.

  16. #16

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    The EVs are to get past threat x after y uses of Agility under z conditions. Without using Agility at least once, the Spe EVs are pointless.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlueRabbit View Post
    The most powerful Sucker Punches in the Tower, which are the only noteworthy priority attacks since Mach Punch will always deal out too much damage for any real investment to be useful, are thrown out by the Max Atk / Jolly Absol, 374 | Absol | Jolly | Chople Berry | Sucker Punch | Facade | Double Team | Taunt | Atk/Spe. Against 36 HP / 18 Def Empoleon, they do 23.2% - 27.4% while against a 36 HP / 54 Def Empoleon, which is what results from knocking the Spe EVs down to 164 to outspeed Timid Jolteon at +2, they hit for 22% - 25.6%. It's slightly reassuring to be almost guaranteed a surviving Sub after getting hit by Sucker Punch Absol but it's situational and imo better to cover the occasional Max Spe Electrode which can't be OHKO'd without boosts, unlike Absol who takes 85.7% - 101.4%. It's a slight margin, sure, but still. Also worth noting that the only Sucker Punch Absol lacks Superpower so it can't really kill Empoleon very easily at all. I'm still saying invest to hit Electrode.
    Yea, that 2% damage reduction really isn't appealing to
    me tbqh. I did the same when it came down to which
    Lati@s I was going to use, and I haven't really noticed the
    extra damage. I can always work around Sucker Punch as
    well by spamming Agility or Sub. Taking all of this into
    account, I'll probably keep him as is. I feel more comfortable
    losing a Sub to Absol who can't threaten me too much as
    opposed to having something threatening outspeed.

    I'm a bit ill, so I hope all that makes sense. /rambling

    Edit: Been busy, added info to the OP.

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